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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Tabitha on February 26, 2003, at 1:10:24
My therapist told me she doesn't feel heard, that I distort what she says. It came out that I still don't really believe she wants me to get better. I don't even know if this was my true belief coming out or just exhaustion and rambling. The weird thing is the whole conversation sounded like a couple breaking up. You know, when you throw it all out there, and it's obviously not working, and there's nothing you can do. Then on the way home it didn't seem real at all, just like some silly drama.
Where the heck all this came from, I don't know. Therapy is weird, but this was particularly weird.
Posted by Dinah on February 26, 2003, at 5:34:35
In reply to Weird therapy session, posted by Tabitha on February 26, 2003, at 1:10:24
I hate therapy sessions like that. Being the insecure creature I am, I usually call the next day to make sure everything is globally ok, and that we'll be able to sort out the details.
Overall, though, the long term effect is often good. Therapy is like any long term relationship. Things build up, even in therapists, and they're not supposed to let them out and yet occasionally do, and then you feel rotten. Perhaps more so because unlike a regular relationship, it often comes as a surprise. My therapist sometimes reminds me that there are two real people in the room, and that he can get angry but that doesn't mean the end of our relationship. Of course I have real fears of anger. But it can often move you past a block in therapy, because you realize that you've been doing things the same way for a while and you might be in a rut that is frustrating both of you. Or the therapist might be completely off base, but you get to talk it out and have them understand something they didn't before or correct a misimpression.
In my experience, at least, it hasn't meant a breakup. It's usually resulted in a deeper level of trust and mutual understanding. Possibly because there is a good level of commitment (albeit based on his part on a good steady stream of income).
Haven't you been feeling lately like you aren't sure that therapy is worthwhile? Forgive me if I'm not remembering correctly. Perhaps all of this will give you an opportunity to put those feelings in context.
Posted by Cecilia on February 27, 2003, at 2:13:42
In reply to Weird therapy session, posted by Tabitha on February 26, 2003, at 1:10:24
That`s how my therapy ended-like a couple breaking up. She was fed up and angry because after 7 years I still didn`t trust her and believe she was on my side and I was angry because after 7 years and all that money and shameful (to me) self exposure I was more depressed and self hating than when I started. One awful session and it was over. Except of course, not over at all, I don`t know if she ever gives me a thought, but for me, five and a half years later the pain is still never-ending. Cecilia
Posted by Tabitha on February 27, 2003, at 13:53:35
In reply to Re: Weird therapy session, posted by Cecilia on February 27, 2003, at 2:13:42
Wow, how awful. I had a bad therapy termination once, but it had only been a few months. I know bad breakups can linger, I'm still stuck on one particular friend I lost back around 97.
This thing with my therapist seems to have come out of nowhere. She's the totally non-revealing type, so I've never had to respond to her feelings at all. How am I supposed to know where she's coming from at all, when I have no sense of her personality whatsoever? So where do I put my trust? On a non-person? I trust that she'll show up for sessions, and respond in a consistent way, but what do I really know of her motivations? Nothing. How are we supposed to really trust someone we don't know? Isn't that a little unreasonable?
My other gripe that started this... when I report events with other people, she usually assumes my judgement is wrong, and she puts a happier face on it. Often (always?) it turns out my judgement was correct. I'm tired of having her always assume she knows better, even though I'm the one with the firsthand experience. Then I have to deal with whatever was bothering me about the relationship twice (my original perception, then I try to believe it's all really OK based on her perception, then it turns out my perception was correct, so I get let down twice).
I think my therapist is just tired of me and I don't blame her. I'm tired of her too. Oh, the blasphemy. It feels like I'm off secretly admitting I want to divorce my spouse.
Posted by Dinah on February 27, 2003, at 14:08:04
In reply to Re: Weird therapy session » Cecilia, posted by Tabitha on February 27, 2003, at 13:53:35
Sounds like you're figuring out where you want this to go on your own, Tabitha.
Maybe it is time to move on. (And gauge your reaction to that statement. I always feel terror, but if you feel relief, then you'll have even more guidance.)
Posted by Tabitha on February 28, 2003, at 0:26:02
In reply to Re: Weird therapy session » Tabitha, posted by Dinah on February 27, 2003, at 14:08:04
> Sounds like you're figuring out where you want this to go on your own, Tabitha.
I had to go back and read my post to see if there was some clarity I missed. I'm clueless.
One thing I realized, if we do divorce, it's not the end of the world.
Posted by Cecilia on February 28, 2003, at 2:51:31
In reply to Re: Weird therapy session » Cecilia, posted by Tabitha on February 27, 2003, at 13:53:35
Tabitha, that used to bug me too, the way my therapist always acted like her interpretations of things were right, even about people (like my parents) that I`d known my whole life and she had never met! Of course, I had distortions and projections, but that didn`t mean she was always right. Well, that in a nutshell is why I failed therapy, I could never trust, it was always a power struggle. I go back and forth in my mind, loathing myself for not being able to do therapy right and then totally furious at her for allowing me to become attached like glue, assuring me that therapy would work when she most likely knew from the beginning that it was hopeless. Therapy is so incredibly, incredibly addictive. I read a book recently called "Folie a Deux" by Rosie Alexander about how obsessive one can become about one`s therapist. For me it was mostly a maternal transference, not an erotic one like the author of the book, but the result is the same; one`s therapist become`s one`s whole life. And it`s so hopeless because if you get better you`ll lose her and if you don`t get better you`ll lose her. Lose-lose for the client and win-win for the therapist-they get paid either way. Cecilia
Posted by Ginjoint on February 28, 2003, at 13:54:05
In reply to Re: Weird therapy session » Cecilia, posted by Tabitha on February 27, 2003, at 13:53:35
> This thing with my therapist seems to have come out of nowhere. She's the totally non-revealing type, so I've never had to respond to her feelings at all.Tabitha, if she's chosen to go the (rather chickenshit, IMO) route of not revealing anything, then she has to deal with the eventual effects (*ahem*, fallout) from that. Of course, therapists are real people too, and learn like real people, so maybe she'll learn from this - I'm just sorry that you seem to be her teacher. 'Snot fair.
> My other gripe that started this... when I report events with other people, she usually assumes my judgement is wrong
grrrrr! Grrrrr! GGRRRRRR! If she expects you to trust her, then she should have some more trust in you, and your "read" on situations. Tabitha, you are so obviously a smart and intuitive person. She must know this. If she keeps second-guessing you, I worry that it will eventually affect your own self confidence. I don't think that'll happen, but as you know, it sure is annoying as people do it. Please let us know how the next session goes, mmmkay?
Ginjoint
Posted by Ginjoint on February 28, 2003, at 13:57:30
In reply to Re: Weird therapy session, posted by Cecilia on February 28, 2003, at 2:51:31
> And it`s so hopeless because if you get better you`ll lose her and if you don`t get better you`ll lose her. Lose-lose for the client and win-win for the therapist-they get paid either way.
Beautifully put, Cecilia. I have to run this past my pdoc, if she ever returns from maternity leave.
Ginjoint
Posted by Tabitha on February 28, 2003, at 14:17:05
In reply to Re: Weird therapy session, posted by Cecilia on February 28, 2003, at 2:51:31
Wow, you paint a bleak picture, but it seems right on target to me now.
Posted by Tabitha on February 28, 2003, at 14:27:09
In reply to Re: Weird therapy session, posted by Ginjoint on February 28, 2003, at 13:54:05
I always liked the non-revealing bit, since it kept all the attention on me. I never felt like I had to take care of her. I think I had less transference stuff going on, too. I never got obsessed with the therapist herself, and I thought the non-revealing thing helped. It just makes it so weird to hear about her reactions to me now. It's like the whole basis of things is changed.
The stuff about their interpretations has always been tough for me. I'm sure I have lots of untrue projections, so if the therapist challenges those, that's good. But if she's challenging my real perceptions, then it just undermines my confidence (like you said). And who can possibly know which is which?
Posted by Dinah on February 28, 2003, at 14:54:52
In reply to Re: Weird therapy session » Ginjoint, posted by Tabitha on February 28, 2003, at 14:27:09
My therapist is always totally honest with me re his feelings about me (or anything else I ask about), although he is amusing in his attempts to put the best possible spin on it. He's relatively revealing about his life as well. And you're right, it does sometimes cause me to take care of him, or shift the focus from me. But the upside is that I feel I can trust him, within limits of course. The limits being that I never forget that his "caring" is bought and paid for. If I ran out of money, or he decided to go out of the business or move, I wouldn't get a second thought.
Overall, I've been pretty happy with the arrangement despite its drawbacks. Because I don't have to wonder what he's thinking. But then again I spend probably too much time worrying about whether he finds me unacceptable in some way. And we're working on that.
The clarity I thought I saw was that you seemed to be unhappy with her style, given the surprises it hid. And that you had previously questioned this therapy's worth.
I realize it could just be shock and hurt. And if she is a skilled clinician she will make repairs at the next session, and maybe the trust can be deepened on both sides.
As far as the questioning your perceptions is concerned, have you told her how it bothers you? It's been my experience that therapists prefer to put a positive spin on things. I'll bet she doesn't challenge your perceptions in the negative direction. But if you tell her how it makes you feel, she should take the effort to discuss it from a different angle.
I've never really understood the blank slate idea. I mean I suppose it has its benefits, but it leaves so much room for misunderstandings. Even with my therapist's style he sometimes doesn't ask questions when he doesn't understand, or he'll think he understands but doesn't. If they're totally unrevealing about what they're thinking, how are misimpressions on both sides supposed to be addressed?
I don't know Tabitha. You've been relatively happy for a while with her, and this might just be a blow up to clear the air. Or it may be a sign that you need to move on. How she handles it at the next few sessions will tell you a lot.
Let us know how it goes?
Posted by Tabitha on March 4, 2003, at 21:26:54
In reply to Re: Weird therapy session » Tabitha, posted by Dinah on February 28, 2003, at 14:54:52
She cancelled my session this week. This is the first time it's ever happened. I'm trying not to feel dumped.
Posted by Dinah on March 4, 2003, at 21:52:12
In reply to Re: Extra weirdness, posted by Tabitha on March 4, 2003, at 21:26:54
Any explanation?
I'm sure it's unrelated if she's got any professionalism at all.
But still, now you're on tenterhooks for another week.
Hey, maybe something is going on in her life to make her behave so out of character?
This is the end of the thread.
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