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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by corafree on February 14, 2005, at 11:50:28
I don't know if I even want to post this, but maybe someone can explain to me a positive light in this prayer? I was really upset after reading it on beliefnet. Why would a child born out of sin(?) be held accountable for the sin(?); this type of thing upsets me so that I feeling like throwing in the towel! It definitely makes me not want to read the entire Bible. Up to now, I've enjoyed the prayer a day at beliefnet, so I just naturally clicked on it. It follows. cf
A Contrite Sinner's Prayer for Pardon
Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: According to the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions.
Wash me thoroughly from mine iniquity, And cleanse me from my sin.
For I know my transgressions; And my sin is ever before me.
Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, And done that which is evil in thy sight; That thou mayest be justified when thou speakest, And be clear when thou judgest.
Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity; And in sin did my mother conceive me.
Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts; And in the hidden part thou wilt make me to know wisdom.
Purify me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: Wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.
Make me to hear joy and gladness, That the bones which thou hast broken may rejoice.
Hide thy face from my sins, And blot out all mine iniquities.
Create in me a clean heart, O God; And renew a right spirit within me.Cast me not away from thy presence; And take not thy holy Spirit from me.
Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; And uphold me with a willing spirit.
Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; And sinners shall be converted unto thee.
Deliver me from bloodguiltiness, O God, thou God of my salvation; And my tongue shall sing aloud of they righteousness.
O Lord, open thou my lips; And my mouth shall show forth thy praise.
For thou delightest not in sacrifice; else would I give it: Thou hast no pleasure in burnt-offering.
The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: A broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.
Do good in thy good pleasure unto Zion: Build thou the walls of Jerusalem.
Then wilt thou delight in the sacrifices of righteousness, In burnt-offering and whole burnt-offering: Then will they offer bullocks upon thine altar.
- Psalms 51: 1-19
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 14, 2005, at 12:17:54
In reply to Prayer on Beliefnet Upset Me, posted by corafree on February 14, 2005, at 11:50:28
The prayer is Psalm 51, written by David after he committed adultery and having made it so that her husband could be killed in battle.
There is a great deal of meaning inthe psalm that I could write from the jewish perspective that could have the potential to give more positive light as to what is written in the psalm.
The psalm could have the potential to upset readers as to the words and statements used in it.
In my faith experiance, I was revealed many aspects of the psalm by David that could have the potential to reveal some things that could possibly have the reader read it, after I write what was revealed to me, and possibly not be upset after reading it again .
Lou
Posted by SLS on February 14, 2005, at 14:45:28
In reply to Prayer on Beliefnet Upset Me, posted by corafree on February 14, 2005, at 11:50:28
> Why would a child born out of sin(?) be held accountable for the sin(?);
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.According to some religions, each one of us is born laden with the burden of the original sin (Adam and Eve eat the forbidden fruit). Thus, it is necessary to first cleanse the soul with the water of baptism, without which one is not to partake in the rite of communion. As is often the case in the Bible, there are words that seem contradictory as to create paradoxes and lead to interpretations that allow for sin and innocence simultaneously. I wish I were more of a theologian to be able to comment more intelligently as to what these paradoxes of the Bible are that allow for this. Take heart that the Bible most surely does. If you are that upset by the words you have read, perhaps it would be a good time to make an appointment to speak with your minister about them. I have a feeling that your discomfort with the discordance that the words display on the surface can be reconcilled by the wisdom of the thousands of years of study and interpretation that your minister can help you to recognize.
I do not believe that any of us carry the guilt for the acts of those who begat us. To be born of sin, should it exist, does not mean to be born with sin. It is indeed difficult to look at a newborn and think of anything else but its purity and innocence.
- Scott
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 14, 2005, at 16:24:26
In reply to Re: Prayer on Beliefnet Upset Me » corafree, posted by SLS on February 14, 2005, at 14:45:28
It has been written that [...{some} religions...{necessary}...water baptism...not to partake...].
I am requesting from anyone to identify the religions that could be in the {some} religions mentioned that it is {necesary}.
Lou
Posted by rayww on February 14, 2005, at 17:59:14
In reply to Prayer on Beliefnet Upset Me, posted by corafree on February 14, 2005, at 11:50:28
I am troubled with that too, but in Lou's context, it makes some difference. If Adam's sin was the only sin a person could be held accountable for I could understand infant baptism.
I have enjoyed things on beliefnet, but have also found that some ideas are misrepresented. I certainly hope it doesn't turn you off reading the Bible. May I suggest before you read the prayer of the day you offer a prayer from your heart and ask God to help put it into context so you might understand the intended message? Prayer and Scriptures go together.
http://scriptures.lds.org/a_of_f/1 This link explains my belief, and demonstates a different way of looking at baptism.
People of my faith believe ( #2 in the link) that we are held accountable for our own actions in life, not for Adam's, and that (#3) all mankind may be saved through the Atonement and by obedience. It takes faith, (4) repentance, baptism at an age of accountability. We receivie the gift of the Holy Ghost (5) by the laying on of hands by someone who has the authority and has been called of God by authority, the same authority as was found in the primitive church complete with (6) prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, etc. We incorporate all the spiritual gifts (7), and believe the Bible and the Book of Mormon to be the revealed word of God (8). We also believe that God may still reveal (9) great and important things as Israel gathers, the ten tribes return, (10) and as Zion (The New Jerusalem) is built upon the American continent in preparation for Christ's paradisiacal reign. We believe in religious freedom for all (11), but at the same time subject ourselves to local governments (12) and take the honest, true, virtuous approach to obedience (13). All this because we know and believe in God the Eternal Father, His son Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost (1).
Posted by SLS on February 14, 2005, at 18:26:29
In reply to Lou's response to an aspect of this thread-wtrbap, posted by Lou Pilder on February 14, 2005, at 16:24:26
> It has been written that...
What I wrote was this:"According to some religions, each one of us is born laden with the burden of the original sin (Adam and Eve eat the forbidden fruit). Thus, it is necessary to first cleanse the soul with the water of baptism, without which one is not to partake in the rite of communion."
I did not write this:"[...{some} religions...{necessary}...water baptism...not to partake...]."
Certain churches require that someone be baptized before being allowed to take communion.
- Scott
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 14, 2005, at 20:20:44
In reply to Re: Prayer on Beliefnet Upset Me » corafree, posted by rayww on February 14, 2005, at 17:59:14
It has been written,[...in Lou's context,it makes some difference...].
The context of the Psalm is defined in the psalm. One line writes,[...deliver me from the guilt of {bloodshed}...]. When did David commit bloodshed that he would have guilt for?
Lou
Posted by rayww on February 14, 2005, at 20:40:53
In reply to Lou's response to rayww's post-premedmrdr, posted by Lou Pilder on February 14, 2005, at 20:20:44
When he sent Uriah to the front lines of battle.
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 14, 2005, at 20:56:48
In reply to Re: Lou's response to rayww's post-premedmrdr » Lou Pilder, posted by rayww on February 14, 2005, at 20:40:53
rayww,
You wrote,[...when he sent...to battle...].Not only that, but there was adultery that preceded the premeditated scheme to have him killed. Now the psalm has great siginificance in relation to {forgivness} when David wrote,[...Have mercy upon me...according to your lovingkindness....blot out my transgressions...wash me...from my iniquity...create in me a clean heart...Restore to me the joy of your salvation...the sacrifices of God are a broken spirit...a broken and contrite heart...that you will not despise...].
Lou
Posted by not2late4u on February 15, 2005, at 2:40:32
In reply to Prayer on Beliefnet Upset Me, posted by corafree on February 14, 2005, at 11:50:28
cf, nice to see you asking questions, wanted to let you know that you've been on my mind and heart. I wont be posting here, Im just not the debating kind of gal, but wanted you to know you can babblemail me anytime you feel like it. Keep asking those questions, keep seeking. Ask God for discernment, to know truth from false teaching. He will hear your prayer and guide you into the truth. God Bless you, Renee
Posted by corafree on February 16, 2005, at 9:52:38
In reply to Re: Prayer on Beliefnet Upset Me, posted by not2late4u on February 15, 2005, at 2:40:32
Tks for the invite to babble Renee. I'd hoped you'd see the post. A lot of information coming back from it.
I have two daughters, baptized and confirmed in the Catholic church. In my third marriage, I had a son, and I had my first meeting w/ domestic violence. I changed from that first hit. It was all I could do to try keep things going. Anyway, I think it is my inequity that he was not confirmed (if that is even what is meant in this prayer), not his.
And still, I think God will not punish either of us. I don't go to a church now - called one and they said I couldn't go there!? Think about checking out Lutheran.
Anyway, I read this and thought of my son, and realized why I didn't want to read ALL of the bible. cf
Posted by Greenhornet on February 18, 2005, at 11:38:24
In reply to Re: Prayer on Beliefnet Upset Me » not2late4u, posted by corafree on February 16, 2005, at 9:52:38
Renee,
I am praying for you.
Original sin and the sins one commits daily are not the same thing. We are born in original sin
Hornet
Posted by corafree on February 18, 2005, at 14:00:43
In reply to Re: Prayer on Beliefnet Upset Me, posted by Greenhornet on February 18, 2005, at 11:38:24
It's hard for my heart to set right with, but thank you all for helping me to see what is being said here. best wishes, cf
This is the end of the thread.
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