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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 34. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by crazychickuk on September 3, 2004, at 2:28:02
Hi there, i am a little freaked out, jehova wittnesses have freaked me out by saying the work is gonna end soon, everything i nthe bible is coming true, terroists, war, russia then china etc... i am very scared, i havent read the bible because i have been brought up to beleive that it is just a book, and to be honest with you i wouldnt be able to understand it and i wouldnt know what one to get there are so many different ones..
please can someone tell me about this as i am a freaked out and feel i am losing my mind over this..
thanks
Posted by crazychickuk on September 3, 2004, at 9:20:59
In reply to THE bible?-need imput plse, posted by crazychickuk on September 3, 2004, at 2:28:02
*world*
p.s.. what religions r there?
Posted by rayww on September 3, 2004, at 12:09:28
In reply to THE bible?-need imput plse, posted by crazychickuk on September 3, 2004, at 2:28:02
Faith is the antidote to fear. The signs of the times are clearly stated in the Bible, but are understood through the spirit. For instance, the world does not always mean the earth. It could mean worldliness, man-made not god-made, etc.
Just as art and poetry is of the spirit, so is the Bible. If you look at it as only words, that is all you may see. You must read it through (the right) spirit if you want to understand. The Old Testament is laced with prophesy in Ezekiel, Daniel, Isaiah, Genesis, and many other books. The New Testament is prophesy fulfilled, and instruction for how to govern the churches and live our lives.
There are many versions of the Bible and all are similar. The Catholic Bible includes the "Apocrapha" but these extra writings are questioned by some other faiths. I use the King James and prefer http://scriptures.lds.org/ because of the cross-referencing on the Internet, which makes it fun and easy to study and research by topic, word, etc.
There are many things that have to take place before the end of the world, according to prophesy. There is good news. Righteousness in all religions is now growing faster in the earth than evil can destroy it. God is winning, and that has to be exciting, isn't it?
The important thing to remember is if you have faith you have no need to fear, which leads to the age old question, "what is faith?"
Posted by Cass on September 3, 2004, at 12:24:32
In reply to THE bible?-need imput plse, posted by crazychickuk on September 3, 2004, at 2:28:02
If you want to read the bible, "The New Revised Standard Version - With Apocrypha" published by Thomas Nelson Publishers is written in very straight forward, understandable language, but keep in mind that there are groups and organizations that have been predicting the end of the world for decades and even centuries. I seem to recall Jehova's witnesses coming to my door 20 years ago saying with great urgency that the end of the world was at hand and pointing to scripture to "prove" it. The world did not end. I feel that they purposely create fear in order to convert people. I choose not to accept any belief system out of fear. I came to my religion out of love and resepct for its principles.
It's true that the world isn't in great shape, environmentally, politically or spiritually. The solutions for me are to be environmentally aware (recycle, conserve gas, reduce consumption...), to be politically aware (try to get at the truth) and work on myself spiritually because I can't change others, but I can change myself.
Posted by nicolas on September 3, 2004, at 20:08:59
In reply to Re: THE bible?-need imput plse-oops, posted by crazychickuk on September 3, 2004, at 9:20:59
Hello,
There are many religions in the world. I am astonished again and again at how often and intimately the mystics, regardless of exoteric dogma, find the same heart, the same esoteric experience of bliss in prayer. Surely a direct encounter with God is worth more than a strange, savage vision of the end of days.
Millenarianism, the idea that some future Judgement day is swift approaching, is a very old conceptual sensibility, at least as old as Zoroastrianism. Christ does speak of Judgement Day but don't allow yourself to be crippled by fear ... Christians ought to work to establish a communion between heaven and earth Now.
In fact, Mark 13 reads: And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled for such things must needs be, but the end shall not be yet.
The Apostle Paul, writing in the first century, believed that Christ's resurection was the first fruit; in otherwords, that the end of the world was already upon them. And this was in the first century! Two thousand years has taught us that the world sustains, so maybe we should rethink Christ's teachings and see how they apply to this very moment rather than to the future.
Apocalypse is a visionary experience.
But let me end this post with a quote from the book of Thomas, that may help you re-imagine 'the end of the world':
His disciples said to him, "When will the kingdom come?"
<Jesus said,> "It will not come by waiting for it. It will not be a matter of saying 'here it is' or 'there it is.' Rather, the kingdom of the father is spread out upon the earth and men do not see it.'"
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 3, 2004, at 23:54:22
In reply to Re: THE bible?-need imput plse » crazychickuk, posted by Cass on September 3, 2004, at 12:24:32
> If you want to read the bible, "The New Revised Standard Version - With Apocrypha" published by Thomas Nelson Publishers is written in very straight forward, understandable language...
I'd just like to plug the double double quotes feature at this site:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#amazon
The first time anyone refers to a book without using this option, I post this to try to make sure he or she at least knows about it. It's just an option, though, and doesn't *have* to be used. If people *choose* not to use it, I'd be interested why not, but I'd like that redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20020918/msgs/7717.html
Thanks!
Bob
Posted by crazychickuk on September 4, 2004, at 5:53:51
In reply to Re: double double quotes » Cass, posted by Dr. Bob on September 3, 2004, at 23:54:22
thanks guys
Posted by Jai Narayan on September 4, 2004, at 9:39:50
In reply to Re: THE bible?-need imput plse » crazychickuk, posted by Cass on September 3, 2004, at 12:24:32
>I choose not to accept any belief system out of fear. I came to my religion out of love and resepct for its principles.
It's true that the world isn't in great shape, environmentally, politically or spiritually. The solutions for me are to be environmentally aware (recycle, conserve gas, reduce consumption...), to be politically aware (try to get at the truth) and work on myself spiritually because I can't change others, but I can change myself.***I too am working on my life in a similar fashion.
I appreicate your sharing.
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 4, 2004, at 10:33:32
In reply to Re: THE bible?-need imput plse, posted by Jai Narayan on September 4, 2004, at 9:39:50
Friends,
I am responding to the thought in this thread that is about those [...working on my self spiritually...because I can change myself...].
I am requesting for anyone to respond to what can be done by someone to spiritually change themselves.
Lou
Posted by Cass on September 4, 2004, at 11:07:19
In reply to Re: THE bible?-need imput plse, posted by Lou Pilder on September 4, 2004, at 10:33:32
I'll give an example. It's easy to point out the spiritual flaws of others and be angry about them. I could point out homophobia, sexism, religious arrogance, racism or any kind of narrow-minded intolerance. It's easy to dwell on the lack of compassion and intolerance in other people while not working on oneself. So what I mean by "working on myself spiritually" is to make sure I am as tolerant and compassionate as I can be rather than expecting others to be that way. That isn't to say that I'm apathetic about injustice. If there's something I can do to prevent a social ill, I will probably do it, but I try to focus on enhancing my own spiritual strengths rather than condemning others. It's not easy. I try to remain calm and centered. I'm just trying to make spiritual progress rather than losing myself to anger.
Posted by Cass on September 4, 2004, at 11:11:43
In reply to Re: double double quotes » Cass, posted by Dr. Bob on September 3, 2004, at 23:54:22
Thanks for the tip, Dr. Bob. I would create a link for that book right now, but I couldn't find it in the Amazon.com search results. Next time, I may be luckier.
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 4, 2004, at 11:28:06
In reply to Re: THE bible?-need imput plse » Lou Pilder, posted by Cass on September 4, 2004, at 11:07:19
Cass,
I appreciate your response. there is a lot of sound mental-health advice given by you here.
You talked about[...loosing yourself to anger...].
In my faith experiance I also found that [....loosing yourself to anger can be a setback to [spirituall progress]..
what do you use in your faith experiance that has helped you to [...not loose yourself to anger...]?
Lou
Posted by rayww on September 4, 2004, at 11:33:31
In reply to Re: THE bible?-need imput plse, posted by Lou Pilder on September 4, 2004, at 10:33:32
Hi Lou. Welcome back. I hope you are here to stay a while. I look forward to your responses but hope you will not ask for too much clarification on issues that are not easy to clarify. The topic of spiritually changing one's self is a good one.
A spiritual change could refer to one changing state from carnal to spiritual.
Spiritual growth could refer to understanding, wisdom, and knowledge, line upon line, precept upon precept as learned through reading scripture, saying prayer, and striving to keep the commandments.I personally feel the most growth spiritually when I am true to the principles that foster spiritual growth: Morning and evening prayer, daily exposure to scripture and other inspired writing, (audio, or reading), writing/thinking. When we break ourselves against the commandments of God we break our spirituality chain, but when we repent, the chain is mended, so to be virutous is key. When thoughts and actions are immoral it is hard to find the spirit. That is (unfortunately perhaps) real. We can't save our cake and eat it too.
Teaching others (children) through family councils, etc, increases the spirit in the home. Being kind and helping one another increases the spirit in our home. Eliminating contention in our relationships increases spirituality, because contention drives away the spirit. Being true to true principles increases the spirit aurora around us and our surroundings.
The spirit is real, not imagined. We have a spirit inside our body that lives after our physical body is put to rest. Actually, I can't say it is inside our body because I really think our body is inside it. Are we physical bodies trying to have a spiritual experience, or spiritual bodies trying to have a mortal experience?
Do I need to say "I believe" when I am writing about something as real as this? I assume most believe this because of the many near death experiences that have been reported when one's spirit leaves its body then returns, not to mention doctrine of some religions.
I may or may not comment again on this topic, so I hope I have clarified it to your satisfaction Lou.
again, welcome.
rayww
Posted by Jai Narayan on September 4, 2004, at 11:55:03
In reply to Re: THE bible?-need imput plse » Lou Pilder, posted by Cass on September 4, 2004, at 11:07:19
>So what I mean by "working on myself spiritually" is to make sure I am as tolerant and compassionate as I can be rather than expecting others to be that way.
**beautifully put. I, too, am working in this direction.
Everytime I point at someone else and carp about something they are doing or not doing....
all I have to do is turn around and take a look at what my lessons are in the situation.The bigger the conflict the greater the teaching.
The more I react to someone/ something etc the greater the lessons for me.
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 4, 2004, at 12:02:01
In reply to Re: THE bible?-need imput plse, posted by rayww on September 4, 2004, at 11:33:31
rayww,
You wrote,[...the topic...is a good one...].
You have listed a lot of good things that you think could cause spirituall growth. Each one could have volumes written about them. Could you list the one that you think is the greatest?
Lou
Posted by rayww on September 4, 2004, at 20:58:57
In reply to Lou's reply to rayww » rayww, posted by Lou Pilder on September 4, 2004, at 12:02:01
I guess I was all over the place. Sorry for the overload. I value all thought and the expression of the moment. I don't think I could rate them. There have been many good thoughts expressed on this thread.
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 4, 2004, at 21:18:21
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to rayww » Lou Pilder, posted by rayww on September 4, 2004, at 20:58:57
rayww,
You listed these:
A. reading scripture
B. prayer
C. keeping the commandments
Could you choose just one of those and we can concentrate on that one to discuss?
Lou
Posted by Cass on September 4, 2004, at 23:20:45
In reply to Lou's reply to Cass » Cass, posted by Lou Pilder on September 4, 2004, at 11:28:06
Dear Lou,
I find that if I am angry or disappointed in myself, I tend to be angrier at others. A healthy lifestyle and being true to my convictions helps me spiritually. To give you one example, I eat mostly a plant-based diet of whole foods. I'm a vegetarian. By doing this, I know that I am saving animals. I feel it makes me healthier and closer to God and nature. The truer I am to my own convictions, the more content I am with the world around me.
I have some spritual practices such as meditation through deep breathing which also helps to center me.
I also try to look at the big picture when something about the world angers me or when someone is hostile. I try to remember that the "offender," so to speak, may be behaving out of fear just as my own anger is often fear-based. Or, on an interpersonal level, I may be perceiving some kind of offense when the person means no harm.
I also treasure the company of like-minded people. Spiritual support is invaluable.
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 5, 2004, at 7:04:54
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Cass » Lou Pilder, posted by Cass on September 4, 2004, at 23:20:45
Cass,
I see in your post a wealth of spiritual concepts described by you. In particular, but not limited to:
[...eat plants...saving animals...].
Are you saying that the life of an animal has a spiritual meaning ? If so, I also believe that way although I am not a vegetarian. But when I eat animal products, there is a prayer said by me in my heart for that animal because there was a death of that animal to provide the food for me.
Lou
Posted by Cass on September 5, 2004, at 23:29:11
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Cass-2 » Cass, posted by Lou Pilder on September 5, 2004, at 7:04:54
I'm glad you feel a spiritual connection to animals. I think that animals probably do have spirits. It's the violence and suffering they in endure before they die that bothers me. I think I can live healthily without eating meat and not putting animals through the living hell of slaughterhouses. Animals are God's creation. They are sentient beings, not objects. My health, physically, emotionally and spritually improved once I became a vegetarian (almost a vegan because I eat very little dairy.) Nothing has improved my life more than becoming true to my own convictions. I'm not trying to be "preachy", but here are some great quotes about vegetarianism:
"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated" Gandhi
"Behold I have given you every herb bearing seed which is upon the face of the earth, and every tree in which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed: to you it shall be for meat" (Genesis 1:29)
Flesh eating is unprovoked murder. -- Benjamin Franklin
Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances for survival of
life on Earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet. --Albert
EinsteinAs long as there are slaughterhouses, there will be battlefields.
--Leo Tolstoy, author
"I have from an early age abjured the use of meat, and the time will
come when men such as I will look upon the murder of animals as they
now look upon the murder of men."
--Leonardo Da Vinci"The animals of the world exist for their own reasons. They were not
made for humans any more than blacks were made for whites or women
for men."
--Alice Walker"Non-violence leads to the highest ethics, which is the goal of all
evolution. Until we stop harming ALL other living beings, we are
still savages."
--Thomas A. Edison"While we ourselves are the living graves of murdered beasts, how
can we expect any ideal conditions on this earth?"
--George Bernard Shaw"Nothing is more powerful than an individual acting out of his
conscience, thus helping to bring the collective conscience to
life."
-Norman Cousins
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 6, 2004, at 11:56:47
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Cass-2 » Lou Pilder, posted by Cass on September 5, 2004, at 23:29:11
cass,
I appreciate your quotes about the not eating of animals. You cited the genesis book about how the first people were given food in the form of what grows in a garden.
It unfolds that those people were cast out of that garden and then animals were eaten. But originally, they did not eat animals.
So it could be spiritually rewarding to go back to when they were in the garden by eating only what grows in a garden. I agree with that principle, getting back to the Garden. What other things do you think couuld put someone back into that {spiritual} existance as it was in the Garden?
Lou
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 6, 2004, at 22:09:21
In reply to Re: double double quotes » Dr. Bob, posted by Cass on September 4, 2004, at 11:11:43
Posted by Cass on September 7, 2004, at 0:47:27
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Cass-3 » Cass, posted by Lou Pilder on September 6, 2004, at 11:56:47
Dear Lou,
I think that taking care of the environment and spending time in nature is also very spiritually centering. The products I use in my house and on my body these days are very natural and non-toxic. In fact, most of what I use is "food grade." In other words, it's so safe (for me and the environment) I could eat it (not that I would want to.) The products I use are purer than most "environmentally safe" products that you find in health food stores.
I try to connect with nature every day now. Even if it's tending to my herb garden, laying in the sun for a few minutes or picking fruit. I keep in mind my interconnectedness with nature.
In a way, everything we've been discussing so far is the easy stuff. Changing my diet, ridding my life of many toxins, spending time in nature is easier than ridding myself of emotional toxins. The gentle care I take of my body now makes me more aware of what I need to change emotionally. I have "work" to do in the regard, but I know I've come a long, long way already. Like I mentioned above, I try to look at the big picture while experiencing my feelings. I try to be true to myself and live up to my own ethical convictions.
What do you do to enhance your spiritual life, Lou?
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 7, 2004, at 7:57:41
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Cass-3 » Lou Pilder, posted by Cass on September 7, 2004, at 0:47:27
Cass,
you wrote,[...what do you...enhance...spiritual life...?].
Cass,
This is a topic that could be very comprehensive. Could you choose from the following and we could focus on that one aspect?
A. The becomming one with the Spirit of God
C. The awaking of The Spirit of God
D. The loss of The Spirit Of God
E. The nourishment of The Spirit of God
f. Obtaining The Spirit of God
g. The power of The Spirit of God
h. Healing by the Spirit of God
k. Overcomming by The Spirit of God
l. Enriching your life by The Spirit of God
m. a combination of the above
n. something els which is...
o. something else which I will not state
Lou
Posted by Cass on September 7, 2004, at 20:42:22
In reply to Lou's reply to Cass-B » Cass, posted by Lou Pilder on September 7, 2004, at 7:57:41
How about E and L?
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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