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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by juanantoniod on October 12, 2003, at 18:32:49
Hello,
I'm hoping you all can give me some direction so I can find the faith and beliefs that are right for me. Basically, I believe in God, but I question that Jesus was his son and that we should follow the bible.
Can you give me some names of other religions that I can explore? Would Judaism be one of them?
Thanks for your help!
Antonio
Posted by Tovah on October 12, 2003, at 20:11:03
In reply to What am I? Not Christian. Jewish?, posted by juanantoniod on October 12, 2003, at 18:32:49
...like someone who would be Unitarian. Unitarians basically believe there is truth in all the major religions and see Jesus as a prophet but not as the son of God.
Jewishness is much more than being Christian without Christ. The Jewish religion isn't just "not believing Jesus is the son of God" - there is much more to it than that. However Judaism, Christianity and Islam all believe in the "Abrahanic" God, the God of the Old Testamant of the Bible (known as Torah in Judaism). HTH.
Posted by juanantoniod on October 12, 2003, at 22:54:31
In reply to to me, you sound... , posted by Tovah on October 12, 2003, at 20:11:03
Thanks for that incredible insight, Tovah!
> ...like someone who would be Unitarian. Unitarians basically believe there is truth in all the major religions and see Jesus as a prophet but not as the son of God.
>
> Jewishness is much more than being Christian without Christ. The Jewish religion isn't just "not believing Jesus is the son of God" - there is much more to it than that. However Judaism, Christianity and Islam all believe in the "Abrahanic" God, the God of the Old Testamant of the Bible (known as Torah in Judaism). HTH.
Posted by WakingDreamer on October 14, 2003, at 21:25:56
In reply to What am I? Not Christian. Jewish?, posted by juanantoniod on October 12, 2003, at 18:32:49
try to find a congregation in your area, you might just feel yourself at home
Posted by juanantoniod on October 15, 2003, at 3:57:09
In reply to Re: What am I? Not Christian. Jewish?, posted by WakingDreamer on October 14, 2003, at 21:25:56
A congregation of which, Waking Dreamer?
> try to find a congregation in your area, you might just feel yourself at home
Posted by Dinah on October 19, 2003, at 9:59:35
In reply to What am I? Not Christian. Jewish?, posted by juanantoniod on October 12, 2003, at 18:32:49
My trouble is that I am Jewish to my soul. Jewish theology and philosophy and ways of being resonate with me. I do realize that being Jewish is a communal endeavor, not an individual one. And I haven't had the chance to form a community bond.
The Rabbi I consulted said that God cared more about unity in a family than he did where I worshipped Him. So I worship God in my own idiosyncratic way in a Christian church that accepts me and agrees to disagree about many of my beliefs (for the most part. I swear there was one family that thought I was... well never mind.)
But sometimes it hurts to not be able to follow my heart when it comes to God.
Posted by Tovah on October 19, 2003, at 17:51:17
In reply to Re: What am I? Not Christian. Jewish?, posted by Dinah on October 19, 2003, at 9:59:35
...attend Synagogue and convert?
Posted by Dinah on October 20, 2003, at 7:24:44
In reply to So why don't you..., posted by Tovah on October 19, 2003, at 17:51:17
On the advise of the Rabbi. While I know that Rabbis traditionally turn potential converts away several times, this time I think he had a point. It is better for my son to have a mom and dad attending the same church.
Posted by MamaB on October 21, 2003, at 5:52:12
In reply to to me, you sound... , posted by Tovah on October 12, 2003, at 20:11:03
> ...like someone who would be Unitarian. Unitarians basically believe there is truth in all the major religions and see Jesus as a prophet but not as the son of God.
>
> Jewishness is much more than being Christian without Christ. The Jewish religion isn't just "not believing Jesus is the son of God" - there is much more to it than that. However Judaism, Christianity and Islam all believe in the "Abrahanic" God, the God of the Old Testamant of the Bible (known as Torah in Judaism). HTH.Tovah,
A slight correction if you don't mind. While Muslims call their god "the god of Abraham" and in spite of what many think, their god is NOT the same god as that of Christians and Jews. The god of Islam does not subcribe to living by the Levitical Laws, nor did the god of Islam send his son to die for the sins of humankind. It's a common error.
Posted by MamaB on October 21, 2003, at 5:58:18
In reply to What am I? Not Christian. Jewish?, posted by juanantoniod on October 12, 2003, at 18:32:49
> Hello,
>
> I'm hoping you all can give me some direction so I can find the faith and beliefs that are right for me. Basically, I believe in God, but I question that Jesus was his son and that we should follow the bible.
>
> Can you give me some names of other religions that I can explore? Would Judaism be one of them?
>
> Thanks for your help!
>
> AntonioAntonio,
My suggestion is that you do a little homework before you make any decision. In another post I recommend C.S. Lewis' book, "Mere Christianity". This should give you a better idea of what Christianity is really about.
Posted by Dinah on October 21, 2003, at 7:55:37
In reply to Re: to me, you sound... » Tovah, posted by MamaB on October 21, 2003, at 5:52:12
>
> Tovah,
> A slight correction if you don't mind. While Muslims call their god "the god of Abraham" and in spite of what many think, their god is NOT the same god as that of Christians and Jews. The god of Islam does not subcribe to living by the Levitical Laws, nor did the god of Islam send his son to die for the sins of humankind. It's a common error.According to Genesis, Abraham had two sons. Isaac, his son by Sarah, is claimed as ancestors by the Jewish people. His descendents made a covenant with God, as a people, which included living by the Levitical laws.
Abraham also had another son, Ishmael, by the slave Hagar. The Muslim people claim Ishmael as an ancestor. According to Genesis, God told Abraham "As for the son of the slave-woman, I will make a nation of him, too, for he is your seed." So the claim of the Muslims that they are too descended from Abraham, and that Abraham's God is their God, has some Biblical basis. The fact that they do not follow a covenant not made with their people doesn't contradict that. Although I have not thorougly studied Muslim beliefs, I imagine that they, like Christians, believe that God made a separate covenant with them.
Most Christians also do not follow the laws of Leviticus. (Believe me, I know, because I attempt to follow them when I'm feeling good, and I can't tell you the number of church dinners which include pork.)
Yet, I'm sure Christians would not say that they do not worship the God of Abraham.
Christians believe that God sent his son, Jesus, to die for the sins of the world. The sins of the *world*, by the way. Jews do not believe that Jesus was the Messiah, and do not think of the role of the Messiah as being the same as Christians do. Yet, I'm sure that Christians wouldn't dream of telling Jewish people that their God, the God of the "Old" Testament, is not the God of Abraham.
So I find it totally conceivable that Christians, Jews, and Muslims all worship the God of Abraham. Each according to the traditions of his faith. Actually, I suppose that if you believe that there is but one God, it is easy enough to believe that all monotheistic religions worship the God revealed to us as the God of Abraham, but revealed to other peoples differently.
In fact, I know of at least one Hindu (now I'm not claiming that this is traditional Hindu belief since I really don't know enough) who says that he considers himself monotheistic as well, since all gods are various incarnations of the One God, much along the lines of the Christian view of the Trinity. But I can't swear to that since it was one person's view.
But I sure know that I am not going to tell my Almighty God, Maker of Heaven and Earth, of all things seen and unseen, who he may or may not consider his people. I'll leave that one up to him. :)
Posted by MamaB on October 21, 2003, at 9:17:06
In reply to Re: to me, you sound..., posted by Dinah on October 21, 2003, at 7:55:37
"Christians believe that God sent his son, Jesus, to die for the sins of the world. The sins of the *world*, by the way. Jews do not believe that Jesus was the Messiah, and do not think of the role of the Messiah as being the same as Christians do. Yet, I'm sure that Christians wouldn't dream of telling Jewish people that their God, the God of the "Old" Testament, is not the God of Abraham."
------------------------------------------------
Dinah,
Much of what you say is true, and yes God indeed send his Son into the world that the world,but the rest of that is "that the world THROUGH HIM might be saved. HOWEVER, ........and speaking of covenants.......if the world wishes to fulfill our half of the new covenant, something must happen on our part thats what covenants are about. (See Acts 4:12)
I believe you are quotinq PART of John 3:16 thru 18. It is not meant to be taken out of context.
Also, I stand by my statement that God is the God described in the passage above. Do Muslims claim that?
Yes, God sent His Son for the Jews, heavens, Yeusha WAS a Jew, but again did they accept Him as Messiah? (again the NEW covenant.) I did not mean (and I may have said it wrong) that they were not children of Abraham (Muslims and Jews) But the question stands...did/do they fulfill their part of the NEW Covenant?
By the way, I was raised a Jew.
Posted by Dinah on October 21, 2003, at 9:49:28
In reply to Re: to me, you sound... » Dinah, posted by MamaB on October 21, 2003, at 9:17:06
You are of course correct about the New Testament covenant as expressed by Paul and in John. I shouldn't have taken it out of context.
But God already had a covenant with the Jewish people and I don't consider it unlikely that he also has covenants with other peoples, expressed in terms that would mean something to their cultures.
And I don't see any reason why the God of Islam wouldn't be the God of Abraham. They just don't believe, as Jews don't believe, that Jesus was the Messiah and that God must be reached through Jesus. Which means that they're not Christian, not that they don't believe in the God of Abraham.
Posted by MamaB on October 21, 2003, at 11:11:46
In reply to Re: to me, you sound... » MamaB, posted by Dinah on October 21, 2003, at 9:49:28
> You are of course correct about the New Testament covenant as expressed by Paul and in John. I shouldn't have taken it out of context.
>
> But God already had a covenant with the Jewish people and I don't consider it unlikely that he also has covenants with other peoples, expressed in terms that would mean something to their cultures.
>
> And I don't see any reason why the God of Islam wouldn't be the God of Abraham. They just don't believe, as Jews don't believe, that Jesus was the Messiah and that God must be reached through Jesus. Which means that they're not Christian, not that they don't believe in the God of Abraham.
Dinah,
Please read Genesis 17 actually the whole chapter would be best, but especially verses 19-22 the covenant is clearly stated to be THROUGH ISAAC,
although God does promise to bless Ishmael, no covenant is mentioned. Also read verses 11 and 12 in the preceeding chapter (16) that describe Ishmael. MB
Posted by Dinah on October 21, 2003, at 11:27:00
In reply to Re: to me, you sound... » Dinah, posted by MamaB on October 21, 2003, at 11:11:46
However, a negative cannot be proven.
Posted by srd1074 on November 3, 2003, at 20:26:43
In reply to So why don't you..., posted by Tovah on October 19, 2003, at 17:51:17
It doesn't seem here like anyone knows that you do not have to "FOLLOW" any religious faith. Faith comes from within. It is what gives you your peace. Personally, I don't get most of these faiths out there. They don't make sense to me. To me, where we came from and where we are going is right in front of me ever single second. You may consider looking into some of the ideologies (not theologies) of the eastern world. They really stress the harmony in life and living and not the dissonance of death and what happens when we are dead. They focus on looking toward inner peace and calming the energies of your spirit. As far as morality is concerned, that doesn't have to have an external source like a book that was penned by people that we've never met, more than 2,000 years ago and edited by a church that was driven by control of the masses for several hundred years. It is kind of like trying to get cnn news out of the enquirer.
Sorry if I offended anyone, wasn't my intention. I do not judge anyone for their choice of religion, only their choice of morality. If your faith gives you your peace, then your faith has done you service and that is all that matters.
Posted by Juanantoniod on November 3, 2003, at 21:22:25
In reply to Re: So why don't you..., posted by srd1074 on November 3, 2003, at 20:26:43
Thanks for the voice of reality. I appreciate hearing your perspective because my beliefs are similar. Thanks for confirming that I don't need to search for something organized in order to have inner peace.
Antonio
Posted by MamaB on November 4, 2003, at 6:19:58
In reply to Re: So why don't you..., posted by srd1074 on November 3, 2003, at 20:26:43
>
It doesn't seem here like anyone knows that you do not have to "FOLLOW" any religious faith. Faith comes from within. It is what gives you your peace. Personally, I don't get most of these faiths out there.....Knowing Jesus Christ and the God that sent Him to die for my sins brings me incredible peace and inner peace that passes all understanding
My faith isn't "out there' its based on God's Grace and what I believe with all my heart.They don't make sense to me. To me, where we came from and where we are going is right in front of me ever single second.
.... I certainly know where I came from and, even more assuredly where I am going!
You may consider looking into some of the ideologies (not theologies) of the eastern world. They really stress the harmony in life and living and not the dissonance of death and what happens when we are dead.
.....Jesus overcame death. It is through Him that we have eternal life. No Christian that I am aware of is focused on death.
They focus on looking toward inner peace and calming the energies of your spirit. As far as morality is concerned, that doesn't have to have an external source like a book that was penned by people that we've never met, more than 2,000 years ago and edited by a church that was driven by control of the masses for several hundred years. It is kind of like trying to get cnn news out of the enquirer....Whoops, much of the Bible was written more like 1060+ years ago or MORE that two thousand years ago. And who read it was, for years, controlled by the church authorities, not by the people -- The church controlled the people, not the other way around. Part of the reason for the reformations and counter-reformations of the fourteenth and fifteenth century.
>
> Sorry if I offended anyone, wasn't my intention. I do not judge anyone for their choice of religion, only their choice of morality. If your faith gives you your peace, then your faith has done you service and that is all that matters.
.... It has been my observation that folks who "bash" Christianity really know very little about it.... the REAL thing that is. (no one specific in mind here)
...I am not offended, just wanted to clarify a few things. Mama
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 4, 2003, at 8:07:08
In reply to Re: So why don't you..., posted by srd1074 on November 3, 2003, at 20:26:43
> It doesn't seem here like anyone knows that...
Would you want it implied that you didn't know things? Keeping in mind that the idea here is not to post anything that could lead others to feel put down, could you please rephrase that? Thanks,
Bob
Posted by MamaB on November 4, 2003, at 8:24:03
In reply to Re: So why don't you... Tovah, posted by MamaB on November 4, 2003, at 6:19:58
Sorry the above post should have been addressed to srd1074, not to Tovah -- my apologies.
This is the end of the thread.
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