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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Tomatheus on October 31, 2010, at 18:06:36
Does anybody here have experience taking uridine for depression? How effective was it? What symptoms did it help to alleviate?
I'd appreciate hearing from anyone who's tried this supplement.
Tomatheus
Posted by Tomatheus on November 1, 2010, at 21:00:47
In reply to Uridine for depression?, posted by Tomatheus on October 31, 2010, at 18:06:36
For anybody who's taken uridine, how much did you sleep while you were taking the supplement? I've read that uridine can be "sleep promoting," but more sleep is actually the last thing that I want considering that hypersomnia is one of my core depressive symptoms. Can anyone comment on how uridine affected their sleep (if anyone here's taken it)?
Tomatheus
Posted by morgan miller on November 1, 2010, at 22:21:24
In reply to Another question..., posted by Tomatheus on November 1, 2010, at 21:00:47
Well if uridine makes you sleep better, and acts as a mild antidepressant, than you may feel more rested after getting the normal 8 or 9 hours and naturally wake up, feeling motivated to get out of bed.
I don't have any experience with uridine although I am interested. I took CDP choline which increases uridine production I believe. It may have helped some with depression. I've been meaning to replenish my stash.
Are you on any medications for depression?
Do you take fish oil?
Are you working out regularly?
Posted by Tomatheus on November 1, 2010, at 23:23:54
In reply to Re: Another question..., posted by morgan miller on November 1, 2010, at 22:21:24
Morgan,
Thank you for your response. I think that you have a good point that uridine, with its antidepressant properties, may help me feel more rested and motivated in the morning. I just hope that it doesn't increase my need for sleep from 10 hours a night (which is where it's currently at) to 11 or 12 hours a night or more. I guess I won't know until I try the supplement.
I currently take 5 mg of Abilify, along with 12.5 mg of Lamictal and 2.25 mg of Hydergine. All three medications have a slight effect on my depression, but with the supplements that I take (folic acid, coenzyme q10, and Korean ginseng), I would say that my depression is maybe 40-50 percent contained. The only antidepressant that's ever helped me in any significant way for more than a few days was Nardil, and that ended badly after I received what I suspect was a bad batch from my pharmacy. Ideally, I'd like to get back to where I was when I was taking Nardil (full remission of my depressive symptoms), but I have doubts as to whether or not that will ever happen again.
I don't currently take fish oil, but I've taken it in the past several times, and it never helped with my depression.
I do walk regularly, but I wouldn't say that I exercise strenuously. The exercise walking doesn't help my depression, but it seems to be an adequate way of coping with the restlessness that I've been experiencing since I began experiencing psychotic symptoms (and which has been made worse by the Abilify that I take).
Thanks again for responding. I wish you the best.
Tomatheus
Posted by morgan miller on November 2, 2010, at 1:45:24
In reply to Re: Another question... » morgan miller, posted by Tomatheus on November 1, 2010, at 23:23:54
Your welcome for the response brotha...
Have you tried l methylfolate? I would take that over regular folic acid for depression.
Maybe your should consider trying an omega 3 supplement with a high concentration of just DHA.
If Abilify causes psychotic symptoms, why are you still taking it? Have you tried Zyprexa or Geodon?
Ever considered trying a low dose of a superior brand of st. john's wort?
Ever tried Lithium? Specifically a low dose.
I'm wondering if taking something like a timed release melatonin would deepen your sleep and cause you to require less. Have you tried melatonin before? When I take melatonin, I feel like I require less sleep.
Morgan
Posted by morgan miller on November 2, 2010, at 1:47:33
In reply to Re: Another question..., posted by morgan miller on November 2, 2010, at 1:45:24
Actually scratch the Zyprexa suggestion, that will definitely increase your need for sleep.
Why are you taking Abilify? Just for depression?
What antidepressants have you tried?
I really think your should consider getting into more vigorous exercise and follow it up with a good thorough meditative stretch.
Morgan
Posted by Tomatheus on November 2, 2010, at 13:17:30
In reply to Re: Another question..., posted by morgan miller on November 2, 2010, at 1:45:24
Morgan,
See below for my responses...
> Have you tried l methylfolate? I would take that over regular folic acid for depression.
I actually just switched to folic acid from l-methylfolate because I wanted to retain any anti-anxiety benefits that I might be getting from the folate while doing away with the antidepressant part of the l-methylfolate (which I suspect is the "methyl" part of it). The l-methylfolate worked reasonably well as an antidepressant for me the first day that I took it, but from the second day forward it seemed to have more of an anti-anxiety effect than anything else. So, that's why I wanted to do away with the antidepressant part of l-methylfolate, because it stopped doing anything for me (depression wise) after my first day on it.
> Maybe your should consider trying an omega 3 supplement with a high concentration of just DHA.
That sounds like a good idea. I did try DHA once, and it helped a little, but for some reason that I can't remember, I didn't keep taking it. I think it's something that would be worth revisiting.
> If Abilify causes psychotic symptoms, why are you still taking it? Have you tried Zyprexa or Geodon?
What I meant to say was that the Abilify is making my restlessness worse, not that it's making my psychosis worse. The Abilify does reduce the severity of my psychotic symptoms, and that's the main reason why I take it. It also helps with my depression to an extent.
> Ever considered trying a low dose of a superior brand of st. john's wort?
I've tried the Perika brand of St. John's Wort. I discontinued it after a few days because of what I remember as being an intolerable side effect. I can't remember what that side effect was, but I know that it was bad enough to prompt me to stop the supplement.
> Ever tried Lithium? Specifically a low dose.
Ugh. I took lithium (900-1200 mg) for about a year and a half. It had a slight antidepressant effect when I took it with Wellbutrin SR, but about a month after I discontinued my Wellbutrin (which I had to do because I could no longer afford the medication) my depression became much worse, and I experienced extreme agitation. I had been experiencing some agitation since I started lithium, but when I was on the lithium alone without the Wellbutrin, my agitation became unbearable. The worst thing about lithium is that the tremor and the agitation that I experienced when I was on the drug never went away after I discontinued it. I've been off lithium for about five years now, and it's not something I want to revisit.
> I'm wondering if taking something like a timed release melatonin would deepen your sleep and cause you to require less. Have you tried melatonin before? When I take melatonin, I feel like I require less sleep.
The last time that I took melatonin, I overslept (more than usual) and felt a lot more depressed and agitated the next day. So, for me, it didn't cause me to require less sleep. It had the opposite effect. Thanks for the suggestion, though.
Tomatheus
Posted by Tomatheus on November 2, 2010, at 13:25:59
In reply to Re: Another question..., posted by morgan miller on November 2, 2010, at 1:47:33
Morgan,
See below for my responses...
> Actually scratch the Zyprexa suggestion, that will definitely increase your need for sleep.
>
> Why are you taking Abilify? Just for depression?See my previous reply.
> What antidepressants have you tried?
I've tried Paxil, Prozac, Zoloft, Cymbalta, Anafranil, Wellbutrin, Remeron, Nardil, Parnate, Marplan, selegiline, moclobemide, and Stablon. I might be forgetting one or two.
> I really think your should consider getting into more vigorous exercise and follow it up with a good thorough meditative stretch.
That sounds like a good suggestion. I'm not sure that I have the energy to exercise vigorously for long stretches of time, but there is a chance that doing so might help my depression in some way. I'll keep your suggestion in mind.
Tomatheus
Posted by morgan miller on November 2, 2010, at 14:07:40
In reply to Re: Another question... » morgan miller, posted by Tomatheus on November 2, 2010, at 13:25:59
Wow, you have almost everything for depression. The only other thing to try would be adding something like Zoloft to Nortriptyline, I'm sure you've read it being discussed here. What did you think about Zoloft? I just a fan that's why I ask.
You don't have to go for very long when doing moderate to intense cardiovascular exercise for it to have a beneficial effect. Ten mins followed by a 5 minute warm down would suffice in the beginning. Then you could work your way up to 20 minutes eventually. I find going hard for a bit, slowing down, then going hard for a few more minutes, and repeating this, is an excellent energy boosting and mood boosting workout. Or just go at a moderate pace the entire time. Whatever you do, make sure to follow your workout up with a long thorough meditative stretch.
What is your diagnosis? Do you have one? I'm guessing either bipolar spectrum or schizoaffective/schizophrenic spectrum.
If you ever consider SJW again, Serofin by New Chapters may be a good fit for you. I don't think it has the potential to be agitating like Perika does. Not sure if agitation was your issue.
Have you ever tried a high quality Resveratrol product? I know Bleauberry thinks highly of Japanese Knotweed as something that can positively impact overall health and mental health. I have also read many reports of resveratrol positively impacting both mood and energy.
Man sorry you have tried so many things and still have not found anything to get you back to baseline without unwanted side effects. It has to be extremely frustrating.
Morgan
Posted by Tomatheus on November 2, 2010, at 16:36:55
In reply to Re: Another question..., posted by morgan miller on November 2, 2010, at 14:07:40
Morgan,
Thank you for everything that you've written. Yeah, it is frustrating that I really haven't found anything that's brought my depressive symptoms into remission for too long, with the exception of Nardil. I am thankful, though, that I'm getting a partial response from the medications that I'm currently taking and that my depression isn't as severe as it used to be. As I've said, I have some doubts that I'll ever feel the way that I felt when my depression was in remission, but I will keep trying different things to try to restore my sense of well being as much as possible.
I only stayed on Zoloft for a little less than a week when I tried it because I actually experienced a strong increase in my depressive symptoms while I was on it. I experienced rapid cycling when I took the SSRIs Paxil and Prozac, so perhaps what I experienced before I discontinued the Zoloft was a dip into the depressive phase of the cycling that I usually get when I take SSRIs. Whether or not the depression that I experienced on Zoloft was related to rapid cycling, I really couldn't tolerate it.
My most recent diagnosis is schizoaffective disorder, but I've recently switched doctors and still haven't received an official diagnosis from my new doctor. My guess is that he'll keep the schizoaffective diagnosis that my previous doctor gave me. Basically what I've got are depressive symptoms (particularly lack of energy, hypersomnia, psychomotor retardation, and anhedonia), some positive psychotic symptoms (relatively mild hallucinations, ideas of reference, and thought insertions), negative psychotic symptoms (avolition, alogia, and a little bit of affective flattening), and psychosis-related cognitive impairment.
Thank you for suggesting New Chapter's Serofin as a brand of St. John's Wort to take. It's something I'll have to consider.
I have tried resveratrol before, and it was the Vitaline "Resveratrol-forte" product. I'm not sure how it compares to other resveratrol products in terms of quality. I don't remember it doing a whole lot, but I also don't remember staying on it for long, so it might be worth trying again at some point. It certainly wouldn't hurt to do so.
Well, thanks again for all of your suggestions. You've given me a lot to think about, especially as far as potential treatments go.
Have a good evening,
Tomatheus
Posted by morgan miller on November 2, 2010, at 20:53:42
In reply to Re: Another question... » morgan miller, posted by Tomatheus on November 2, 2010, at 16:36:55
I feel the same way you do about my recovery. I think it is impossible for me to ever feel the way I did 3 1/2 years ago. My sense of wellbeing and happiness was largely based on physical fitness and wellbeing. I'm such a physical wreck now and at the age of 37, I just don't see things getting much better. I also think my brain is seriously damaged for several reasons.
You almost sound more bipolar to me. I think some forms of bipolar and schizoaffective are very very closely related, almost the same illness.
Have you gone through previous threads here on the alternative board? Lao has a lot of good suggestions for natural treatments.
Cordyceps may be something to consider for energy and well being.
Anyway, good luck getting better.
Morgan
Posted by Tomatheus on November 3, 2010, at 0:51:11
In reply to Re: Another question..., posted by morgan miller on November 2, 2010, at 20:53:42
Morgan,
Thanks for your most recent response. I hear you on the brain damage thing. I sort of feel the same way about my condition, even though I can't really prove it. I suspect that my psychosis and cognitive impairment was brought on by the use of an anti-aging medication called aminoguanidine, which I took when I was on a combo of Parnate and SAMe. Basically, my cognitive impairment began shortly after I took the aminoguanidine, and the psychosis began a few days later. I don't think that I'd have the problems with cognition and psychosis that I have today had I not taken aminoguanidine, but my previous doctor disagreed with me. I've yet to mention anything about aminoguanidine to my current psychiatrist.
Thanks for the suggestion regarding cordyceps. I did recently try a free sample of a product called CocoCeps, which contains cordyceps. I didn't feel anything, but maybe the product that I consumed didn't have enough cordyceps in it to make any kind of impact. It also might be the case that I wouldn't be able to feel the effects of cordyceps unless I've taken it for a few days or longer. I don't know for sure, just guessing. I will definitely keep cordyceps in mind as something to try in the future.
Yeah, I've read through a lot of the old threads here on the alternative board, and I agree that Lao Tzu suggests some good natural treatments. I've been following both the medication board and the alternative board on and off for several years now, and a lot of the members here have provided me with a lot of good ideas.
Finally, thank you for wishing me luck in getting better. I wish you the same.
Tomatheus
Posted by morgan miller on November 3, 2010, at 10:21:20
In reply to Re: Another question... » morgan miller, posted by Tomatheus on November 3, 2010, at 0:51:11
Wow, do you think it is possible aminoguanidine interacted badly with Parnate or SAMe or something else you were taking? That would really suck if a supplement was the trigger that pushed you into a really bad state.
So are you still interested in life extension? Are you a member of Imminst? I'm thinking maybe I remember your name over there. Maybe not.
Posted by Tomatheus on November 3, 2010, at 12:13:24
In reply to Re: Another question..., posted by morgan miller on November 3, 2010, at 10:21:20
Morgan,
See below for my responses...
> Wow, do you think it is possible aminoguanidine interacted badly with Parnate or SAMe or something else you were taking? That would really suck if a supplement was the trigger that pushed you into a really bad state.
Yes, I definitely think it's possible that the aminoguanidine that I took may have interacted with the Parnate and/or SAMe that I was taking to permanently alter my brain chemistry. The aminoguanidine may not have had the effect that it had (assuming that I'm correct in thinking that my cognitive impairment and psychosis were triggered by aminoguanidine use) if I had taken it alone, but I do think that adding it to the Parnate/SAMe combo is what set things off. I could be wrong, though.
> So are you still interested in life extension? Are you a member of Imminst? I'm thinking maybe I remember your name over there. Maybe not.
Although I find life extension to be a fascinating topic and have browsed the Imminst.org forums before, I wouldn't say that I have the same interest in life extension as some others who I've encountered on Internet discussion forums. I basically took aminoguanidine because I thought that inhibiting nitric oxide synthase might turn back some of the permanent effects that I was experiencing (the tremor and agitation, to be specific) after having taken lithium. At the time, taking aminoguanidine seemed like such a good idea, but obviously it seems like a pretty bone-headed move now. Anyway, I'm not a member of Imminst, but maybe one day I'll create an account and do some posting over there.
I hope you have a good day,
Tomatheus
Posted by morgan miller on November 3, 2010, at 14:09:18
In reply to Re: Another question... » morgan miller, posted by Tomatheus on November 3, 2010, at 12:13:24
Hey Thomatheus,
>Anyway, I'm not a member of Imminst, but maybe one day I'll create an account and do some posting over there.
There are a lot of people over there suffering with depression and several that suffer from bipolar and schizoaffective. I think there was a recent thread about treating psychosis. It may be a good idea to go over there, join, and start a thread asking for some ideas.
>At the time, taking aminoguanidine seemed like such a good idea, but obviously it seems like a pretty bone-headed move now. Anyway, I'm not a member of Imminst, but maybe one day I'll create an account and do some posting over there.
Who knew aminoguanidine would have the potential to interfere with your brain function/chemistry in such a way. You never could have known. It sounds like you had a good enough reason for trying it. I doubt anyone could have guessed that the risk was there for such damage. I don't think your decision to use aminoguanidine was bone-headed. Now a few of the things I've done over the past 4 years that contributed to me being in such a bad state could be called bone-headed for sure.
I've considered trying this drug called Cerebrolysin to restore my recent loss in cognitive ability. It definitely looks promising, and several people have reported very positive experiences with it. Only problem is it requires intramuscular injections and it is derived from pig brains. Some are concerned about the possible but highly unlikely risk of Cerebrolysin carrying cross-species infection. The company that makes it claims there is no such risk. Anyway, I'm a risk taker and I may just pull the trigger and get some Cerebrolysin when I have a little extra cash. The nice thing is that the effects are lasting. Someone with a bad case of encephalitis used it for 6 or 8 weeks and made a near full recover. They were able to go back to school and finish it. They said they did another course of Cerebrolysin 2 years later to maintain the gains they made after the first trial. Here are a few links about Cerebrolysin.
Ahh, evidence that it may help taken orally. There is a company that makes something similar to it in pill form.
Evidently there is increases cortical kynurenate content in schizophrenia disorders. Cerebrolysin
may lower cortical kynurenic acid formation.One doctor's blog on Cerebrolysin.
Lol, sorry for all the links. I just think treatments like Cerebrolysin are fascinating and hold much potential to treat several neurological disorders. It may even simple be good to fight age-related neurodegeneration, for those that do not have signs of Alzheimer's or dementia, but want to keep there brain sharp and healthy.
>I hope you have a good day,
Hey thanks bro..Not a good day though-muscle stiffness, muscle soreness, muscle fatigue, general fatigue, headache, brainfog, etc. Oh well, hopefully I get to the bottom of this soon. I have feeling there is not diagnosis or definitive answer to what is happening to me. I have some of my own ideas.
You have a good day too. I hope you find some things that work for you soon.
Peace,
Morgan
Posted by Tomatheus on November 3, 2010, at 19:01:08
In reply to Re: Another question..., posted by morgan miller on November 3, 2010, at 14:09:18
Morgan,
I'm sorry to hear about all the problems that you've been having with your muscles and about the other ailments that you've been experiencing. I hope you'll be able to find something that will relieve at least some of the ailments that you're suffering from. Good luck trying out the treatment ideas that you said you have.
I'd also like to thank you for all of the links that you posted on Cerebrolysin. It sounds like a promising treatment for cognitive impairment, and I think it's interesting that it may reduce the formation of cortical kynurenic acid. If you do decide to go ahead with the Cerebrolysin, be sure to keep those of us here at Psycho-Babble posted on how you do with the treatment.
All the best,
Tomatheus
Posted by morgan miller on November 3, 2010, at 21:38:30
In reply to Re: Another question... » morgan miller, posted by Tomatheus on November 3, 2010, at 19:01:08
If I do a trial with Cerebrolysin I will definitely report back here, whether the results are positive or negative. Hopefully I will have the money soon. I'm not concerned about any side effects. I can't see how Cerebrolysin could come close to having the potential to wreck my brain the way that some medications have, especially Lamictal and Zyprexa. Like I said, there are only a few concerns, and these don't really scare me in the slightest.
All the best to you to,
Morgan
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