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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 5 of 5. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Lao Tzu on March 29, 2009, at 12:43:36
I believe, through my exhausting experimentation, that certain vitamins are probably essential for schizophrenia and bipolar depression. They are not helpful for psychosis, but they will help with depressive symptoms and mood stability. I've been on a vitamin regimen for two years now (in addition to medication), and I have found that it usually takes much longer to see good results from vitamins than it does for medication. One has to be patient as change is not usually dramatic with vitamins, but can add to the healing process over time. I have changed my regimen countless times in frustration, thinking I was doing it all wrong. However, I've identified some key vitamins that do help when taken in correct dosages. That is the hard part, determining the correct dosages for your individual needs. This is my current regimen:
Niacin sustained-release---250mg in the morning and 750mg at bedtime
Natural Vitamin E---100-200IU in the morning and 400IU at bedtime
P-5-P or Vitamin B6---50-100mg in the morning and at bedtime
Vitamin C---500mg in the morning and at bedtime
Zinc picolinate---33mg in the morning
Vitamin B1---100mg in the morning and at bedtime
Vitamin B12---anywhere from 250-1,000mcg during the day
Fish oil---Very subjective. Experiment with low dosages and work your way to higher dosages according to what you can tolerate
Borage oil---Very subjective. Personally, I can only tolerate 1,300mg in the morning and occasionally, another 500mg in the afternoon. Best to take this one at same time as fish oil.
Selenium---200IU per day
melatonin---1/4 piece of a 3mg tablet at bedtime
Niacinamide---Very subjective. I only take a mere 30mg occasionally.
Calcium carbonate---controversial. May cause more problems than help, but I do take 300mg occasionally for help with depression.
In addition to my bedtime vitamins, I'll either take 50mg Benadryl or 1,000mg acetaminophen (Tylenol) for help with sleep. I absolutely will not take Benadryl everynight as it can precipitate daytime depression if used on a long-term basis. I'll alternate between Tylenol and Benadryl. In addition, it is also important to take the vitamins at bedtime as they do help with sleep.
The above vitamins have definitely helped me with my depressive symptoms and mood.
Posted by Amelia_in_StPaul on April 26, 2009, at 14:04:27
In reply to Schizophrenia/Bipolar Vitamins, posted by Lao Tzu on March 29, 2009, at 12:43:36
Hello, that is a helpful and exhaustive list. I am surprised that you take the vitamins at night! I am taking megadoses of the B's and of D's for deficiencies, and find I need to take them early in the day--they make me quite alert.
> I believe, through my exhausting experimentation, that certain vitamins are probably essential for schizophrenia and bipolar depression. They are not helpful for psychosis, but they will help with depressive symptoms and mood stability. I've been on a vitamin regimen for two years now (in addition to medication), and I have found that it usually takes much longer to see good results from vitamins than it does for medication. One has to be patient as change is not usually dramatic with vitamins, but can add to the healing process over time. I have changed my regimen countless times in frustration, thinking I was doing it all wrong. However, I've identified some key vitamins that do help when taken in correct dosages. That is the hard part, determining the correct dosages for your individual needs. This is my current regimen:
>
> Niacin sustained-release---250mg in the morning and 750mg at bedtime
> Natural Vitamin E---100-200IU in the morning and 400IU at bedtime
> P-5-P or Vitamin B6---50-100mg in the morning and at bedtime
> Vitamin C---500mg in the morning and at bedtime
> Zinc picolinate---33mg in the morning
> Vitamin B1---100mg in the morning and at bedtime
> Vitamin B12---anywhere from 250-1,000mcg during the day
> Fish oil---Very subjective. Experiment with low dosages and work your way to higher dosages according to what you can tolerate
> Borage oil---Very subjective. Personally, I can only tolerate 1,300mg in the morning and occasionally, another 500mg in the afternoon. Best to take this one at same time as fish oil.
> Selenium---200IU per day
> melatonin---1/4 piece of a 3mg tablet at bedtime
> Niacinamide---Very subjective. I only take a mere 30mg occasionally.
> Calcium carbonate---controversial. May cause more problems than help, but I do take 300mg occasionally for help with depression.
> In addition to my bedtime vitamins, I'll either take 50mg Benadryl or 1,000mg acetaminophen (Tylenol) for help with sleep. I absolutely will not take Benadryl everynight as it can precipitate daytime depression if used on a long-term basis. I'll alternate between Tylenol and Benadryl. In addition, it is also important to take the vitamins at bedtime as they do help with sleep.
> The above vitamins have definitely helped me with my depressive symptoms and mood.
Posted by AN_in_Co on June 8, 2009, at 23:49:50
In reply to Schizophrenia/Bipolar Vitamins, posted by Lao Tzu on March 29, 2009, at 12:43:36
Wow, this is really a great post! I too have done exhaustive research on my supplements for Bipolar, and I concur with everything you have posted. Your list has given me some new ideas for changes in my supplement routine, although my regimen is already eerily similar to yours.
First, I really wanted to thank you [Lao Tzu] for the posting your info re:selenium - this is one of the things I hadn't tried before. I added it about 3 months ago and now I can tell a big difference. For me it counters the effects of the fish oil. I get great mania control (like you said, not psychosis control) from fish oil, but it always brings me too far down, I especially can't take the fish oil at night. Now I am feeling better, I can't thank you enough.
Things that don't work for me are the melatonin: even small amounts seem to contribute to my depressive symtoms, instead I use GABA on occassion now - don't like to use it all the time. I have also had success with tryptophan. Like you I used to take allergy medicine to make me sleepy; sometimes I still use 1000mg acetaminophen - it still makes me really sleepy - but I worry about taking it too often due to the wear and tear on my kidneys...I have started taking (in the evening)calcium citrate in liquid form (includes vitamin D and magnesium)and this has helped me far more than any other calcium supplement I have ever taken. I used to think calcium was inneffective too until I started taking the liquid w/magnesium and D. Now I take 1200mg calcium per day - before bed -that seems to have made the big difference. Doesn't knock me out like tylenol, but seems to bring about higher quality of sleep.
I think this is a VERY helpful list for anyone suffering from bipolar symptoms. It took me years and years to get my supplements right, and each individual has to be patient and put in some effort to actually figure out what works best for them, but the supplements I take make the difference between feeling like I am living vs. just barely surviving.
Thanks Lao Tzu.
> I believe, through my exhausting experimentation, that certain vitamins are probably essential for schizophrenia and bipolar depression. They are not helpful for psychosis, but they will help with depressive symptoms and mood stability. I've been on a vitamin regimen for two years now (in addition to medication), and I have found that it usually takes much longer to see good results from vitamins than it does for medication. One has to be patient as change is not usually dramatic with vitamins, but can add to the healing process over time. I have changed my regimen countless times in frustration, thinking I was doing it all wrong. However, I've identified some key vitamins that do help when taken in correct dosages. That is the hard part, determining the correct dosages for your individual needs. This is my current regimen:
>
> Niacin sustained-release---250mg in the morning and 750mg at bedtime
> Natural Vitamin E---100-200IU in the morning and 400IU at bedtime
> P-5-P or Vitamin B6---50-100mg in the morning and at bedtime
> Vitamin C---500mg in the morning and at bedtime
> Zinc picolinate---33mg in the morning
> Vitamin B1---100mg in the morning and at bedtime
> Vitamin B12---anywhere from 250-1,000mcg during the day
> Fish oil---Very subjective. Experiment with low dosages and work your way to higher dosages according to what you can tolerate
> Borage oil---Very subjective. Personally, I can only tolerate 1,300mg in the morning and occasionally, another 500mg in the afternoon. Best to take this one at same time as fish oil.
> Selenium---200IU per day
> melatonin---1/4 piece of a 3mg tablet at bedtime
> Niacinamide---Very subjective. I only take a mere 30mg occasionally.
> Calcium carbonate---controversial. May cause more problems than help, but I do take 300mg occasionally for help with depression.
> In addition to my bedtime vitamins, I'll either take 50mg Benadryl or 1,000mg acetaminophen (Tylenol) for help with sleep. I absolutely will not take Benadryl everynight as it can precipitate daytime depression if used on a long-term basis. I'll alternate between Tylenol and Benadryl. In addition, it is also important to take the vitamins at bedtime as they do help with sleep.
> The above vitamins have definitely helped me with my depressive symptoms and mood.
Posted by tonyz on June 20, 2009, at 17:08:53
In reply to Re: Schizophrenia/Bipolar Vitamins, posted by AN_in_Co on June 8, 2009, at 23:49:50
I seem to recall reading something about orthomolecular psychiatry where niacin was used as a treatment for schizephrenia.
I should point out that orthomolecular psychiatry is generally not accepted in the psych community -- the theory is that there is a natural substance that can be found to treat any ailment.
Posted by morganpmiller on June 24, 2009, at 10:36:23
In reply to Re: Schizophrenia/Bipolar Vitamins, posted by tonyz on June 20, 2009, at 17:08:53
don't take high doses of the sustainded release niacin, it's more likely to result in liver toxicity. Stick with regular niacin or maybe nicotinamide. Build up slowly with the regular niacin so the flush is not too intense. The flush is good for you though if you can tolerate it. I love the flush in a masochistic way.
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