![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 24 of 24. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by jealibeanz on March 24, 2007, at 23:10:31
Hi...
I'm wondering if anyone here has used 5 HTP supplements for depression. Do they help with depression? If I gained weight with other AD's... Wellbutrin, Paxil, Effexor, Buspar, is it likely that this would cause the same reaction?
Posted by med_empowered on March 24, 2007, at 23:10:32
In reply to 5 HTP Supplements... weight gain?, posted by jealibeanz on March 8, 2007, at 17:03:47
I've always heard the opposite--5-HTP is sometimes used to promote weight loss. Something about the extra serotonin causing a feeling of fullness.
Posted by jealibeanz on March 24, 2007, at 23:10:32
In reply to Re: 5 HTP Supplements... weight gain?, posted by med_empowered on March 8, 2007, at 18:06:59
Yeah, actually SSRI's did that too with me, but also did something metabolically to encourage weight gain.
Posted by jealibeanz on March 24, 2007, at 23:10:32
In reply to Re: 5 HTP Supplements... weight gain?, posted by med_empowered on March 8, 2007, at 18:06:59
Where can one buy these supplements and about how much do they cost?
Posted by Phillipa on March 24, 2007, at 23:10:32
In reply to Re: 5 HTP Supplements... weight gain?, posted by jealibeanz on March 8, 2007, at 19:33:31
Do they increase anxiety or affect a bad thyroid? Love Phillipa
Posted by med_empowered on March 24, 2007, at 23:10:32
In reply to Re: 5 HTP Supplements... weight gain? » jealibeanz, posted by Phillipa on March 8, 2007, at 20:05:57
id check vitacost.com, puritanspride.com, iherb.com
Those places tend to be better priced (I especially like vitacost.com)
Posted by jealibeanz on March 24, 2007, at 23:10:32
In reply to Re: 5 HTP Supplements... weight gain?, posted by med_empowered on March 9, 2007, at 3:21:39
I took 100mg today. I feel really groggy, foggy (not good- I have ADHD, I don't need my thinking clouded further), but calm. Hmm.
Posted by Iansf on March 24, 2007, at 23:10:32
In reply to Re: 5 HTP Supplements... weight gain?, posted by jealibeanz on March 9, 2007, at 16:51:06
> I took 100mg today. I feel really groggy, foggy (not good- I have ADHD, I don't need my thinking clouded further), but calm. Hmm.
100mg is a fairly high level of 5HTP. You might try 25mg and see if that helps, and if not, go up to 50mg. And, yes, 5HTP is often touted as an aid in weight loss, but I don't know if the claim has been substantiated.
Posted by jealibeanz on March 24, 2007, at 23:10:32
In reply to Re: 5 HTP Supplements... weight gain?, posted by Iansf on March 9, 2007, at 17:36:26
Well they are 50 mg capsules. I don't really understand how they work. I read somewhere that it's hard for 5 HTP to cross the blood brain barrier. So if that's true, it's just circulating in the body. I don't know. There's no credible info on supplements since they aren't regulated by the FDA.
Yeah, 5 HTP is said to help with binge eating and cause weight loss. Wellbutrin was supposed to cause weight loss too! Ha, not with me.
Posted by elanor roosevelt on March 24, 2007, at 23:10:32
In reply to Re: 5 HTP Supplements... weight gain?, posted by jealibeanz on March 9, 2007, at 18:01:21
5HTP
how does it work for the depression?
Posted by jealibeanz on March 24, 2007, at 23:12:28
In reply to Re: 5 HTP Supplements... weight gain?, posted by elanor roosevelt on March 13, 2007, at 23:20:43
I have no idea how it actually works. But just to clarify, 5 HTP is another name for serotonin.
Posted by Larry Hoover on March 24, 2007, at 23:12:28
In reply to Re: 5 HTP Supplements... weight gain?, posted by jealibeanz on March 15, 2007, at 21:09:30
> I have no idea how it actually works. But just to clarify, 5 HTP is another name for serotonin.
Uuuuuhhh, no.
5-HTP is 5-hydroxy tryptophan, the intermediate between tryptophan and serotonin. Serotonin is 5-hydroxy tryptamine, which is shortened to 5-HT, All the different serotonin receptors are named by that convention, e.g. 5-HT1a receptor.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on March 24, 2007, at 23:12:28
In reply to Re: 5 HTP Supplements... weight gain?, posted by elanor roosevelt on March 13, 2007, at 23:20:43
> 5HTP
> how does it work for the depression?5-HTP is one step closer to serotonin than the amino acid tryptophan, normally thought of as the precursor to serotonin. If you take 5-HTP, the thinking is that you boost serotonin production, but there are concerns that much of that serotonin is produced peripherally, i.e. outside of the central nervous system, where you'd like it to be synthesized. That said, 5-HTP might also promote the formation of melatonin, so it is sometimes promoted as a mild sleep aid.
Far better, IMHO, to simply take tryptophan. Before there was a big scare about contamination of tryptophan, it was the most commonly used antidepressant in North America. Right about the same time Prozac was rolled out as the miracle "happy pill", a rare blood disorder was linked to cheap Japanese tryptophan. Even though they traced all the bad stuff to one factory, and that place was shut down, the fear of tryptophan contamination has been allowed to hang over this amino acid for years. The FDA restored the legality of human use tryptophan in 1994 (to zero publicity, I might add), yet it remains illegal for an American to import it. I just buy veterinary tryptophan, intended to calm mares during breeding.
Lar
Posted by jealibeanz on March 24, 2007, at 23:12:28
In reply to Re: 5 HTP Supplements... weight gain? » jealibeanz, posted by Larry Hoover on March 16, 2007, at 7:45:56
> > I have no idea how it actually works. But just to clarify, 5 HTP is another name for serotonin.
>
> Uuuuuhhh, no.
>
> 5-HTP is 5-hydroxy tryptophan, the intermediate between tryptophan and serotonin. Serotonin is 5-hydroxy tryptamine, which is shortened to 5-HT, All the different serotonin receptors are named by that convention, e.g. 5-HT1a receptor.
>
> Lar
>
>Uhhhhhhhhh, sorry. My mistake.
Posted by elanor roosevelt on March 24, 2007, at 23:12:29
In reply to Re: 5 HTP Supplements... weight gain? » elanor roosevelt, posted by Larry Hoover on March 16, 2007, at 7:54:03
thanks
i'll try the tryptophan
as on it on the old days
>
> 5-HTP is one step closer to serotonin than the amino acid tryptophan, normally thought of as the precursor to serotonin. If you take 5-HTP, the thinking is that you boost serotonin production, but there are concerns that much of that serotonin is produced peripherally, i.e. outside of the central nervous system, where you'd like it to be synthesized. That said, 5-HTP might also promote the formation of melatonin, so it is sometimes promoted as a mild sleep aid.
>
> Far better, IMHO, to simply take tryptophan. Before there was a big scare about contamination of tryptophan, it was the most commonly used antidepressant in North America. Right about the same time Prozac was rolled out as the miracle "happy pill", a rare blood disorder was linked to cheap Japanese tryptophan. Even though they traced all the bad stuff to one factory, and that place was shut down, the fear of tryptophan contamination has been allowed to hang over this amino acid for years. The FDA restored the legality of human use tryptophan in 1994 (to zero publicity, I might add), yet it remains illegal for an American to import it. I just buy veterinary tryptophan, intended to calm mares during breeding.
>
> Lar
>
>
Posted by jealibeanz on March 24, 2007, at 23:13:53
In reply to Re: 5 HTP Supplements... weight gain?, posted by elanor roosevelt on March 16, 2007, at 20:41:12
> thanks
> i'll try the tryptophan
> as on it on the old days
> >
> > 5-HTP is one step closer to serotonin than the amino acid tryptophan, normally thought of as the precursor to serotonin. If you take 5-HTP, the thinking is that you boost serotonin production, but there are concerns that much of that serotonin is produced peripherally, i.e. outside of the central nervous system, where you'd like it to be synthesized. That said, 5-HTP might also promote the formation of melatonin, so it is sometimes promoted as a mild sleep aid.
> >
> > Far better, IMHO, to simply take tryptophan. Before there was a big scare about contamination of tryptophan, it was the most commonly used antidepressant in North America. Right about the same time Prozac was rolled out as the miracle "happy pill", a rare blood disorder was linked to cheap Japanese tryptophan. Even though they traced all the bad stuff to one factory, and that place was shut down, the fear of tryptophan contamination has been allowed to hang over this amino acid for years. The FDA restored the legality of human use tryptophan in 1994 (to zero publicity, I might add), yet it remains illegal for an American to import it. I just buy veterinary tryptophan, intended to calm mares during breeding.
> >
> > Lar
> >
> >
>
>Can you take both 5 HTP and tryptophan? Which one is more expensive? I found 5 HTP at Walmart. It was Natrol brand (and on clearance sale, maybe not a good sign, but I'm poor!). I know Walmart's own brand of supplements tend to get surprisingly good results from lab comparisons to other brands, in terms of true potency.
Is trytophan easy to find? Does it feel different than 5 HTP, which gives me a slight headache and nausea?
Posted by Larry Hoover on March 24, 2007, at 23:13:53
In reply to Re: 5 HTP Supplements... weight gain? » elanor roosevelt, posted by jealibeanz on March 21, 2007, at 4:48:17
> Can you take both 5 HTP and tryptophan? Which one is more expensive?
You could, I suppose, but I wouldn't. Tryptophan is more expensive, still as a prolonged result of the ban imposed a decade and more ago. To label tryptophan for human use, the packager thereof assumes a liability of proof that it is safe (I have never seen the FDA impose that on any other substance). I think they've used that to jack up the price to extraordinary levels. Iherb sells some, for example: http://www.iherb.com/store/ProductsList.aspx?c=Herbs&cid=l_tryptophan
I am of Scot's heritage, and I don't mind saving a penny. I use veterinary tryptophan, sold here: http://www.buygpdirect.com/gpefeed.htm
It's way down the page, called Super Tryptophane. No idea why the spelling is adapted. If you know your supps, there are other bargoons there, too. The fish oil is not up to human standards, though.
> I found 5 HTP at Walmart. It was Natrol brand (and on clearance sale, maybe not a good sign, but I'm poor!).
I'd have bought it. Walmart's supply chain management system moves anything that even slightly 'stagnates' right on through to clearance. Nothing ever sits around. They don't own warehouses, but instead, massive redistribution centres. Stuff goes from a supplier's truck onto their own, for store distribution, within hours.
> I know Walmart's own brand of supplements tend to get surprisingly good results from lab comparisons to other brands, in terms of true potency.
Yes, they do. And, as per what I say above, you always get 'fresh' product at a Walmart store. For products like fish oil, which is perishable, that is something nice to rely on.
> Is trytophan easy to find? Does it feel different than 5 HTP, which gives me a slight headache and nausea?
The problem with 5-HTP is that the enzyme that converts it to serotonin is found throughout the body, a decarboxylase. 5-HTP is normally synthesized in the tissues that will use serotonin, and the decarboxylation occurs virtually instantaneously. Oral 5-HTP leads to 5-HTP flowing through the blood, which is an abnormal situation for the body to face. You're probably particularly sensitive to the accidental production of serotonin in the periphery, caused by this exogenous 5-HTP. That's why I prefer tryptophan. My body knows where it might need serotonin, and only those tissues will convert it.
Sourcing, above. Or, here's a good sale price on tablets: http://hilife-vitamins.stores.yahoo.net/source-naturals-2107801979.html
Best,
Lar
Posted by elanor roosevelt on March 24, 2007, at 23:13:53
In reply to Re: 5 HTP Supplements... weight gain? » jealibeanz, posted by Larry Hoover on March 21, 2007, at 7:26:44
how many scoops do you put in your feed?
seriously, how do your measure and ingest this?
Posted by jealibeanz on March 24, 2007, at 23:13:53
In reply to Re: 5 HTP Supplements... weight gain? » jealibeanz, posted by Larry Hoover on March 21, 2007, at 7:26:44
Thanks for the links... I think I'm going to purchase the inexpensive capsults. It's worth a shot. I'm always up for trying new things. (I'm not too jaded yet. I think every new drug I try will be my magic cure.)
I decided not to go for the horse powder, although that site had a good description. They give it to horses to calm them before races? Sounds good to me.
Have you noticed any real benefits?
I'm going to have to stop the 5 HTP. It makes me clench my muscles and gives me a headache. Not what I was going for.
Posted by Larry Hoover on March 24, 2007, at 23:13:53
In reply to veterinary tryptophan, posted by elanor roosevelt on March 21, 2007, at 22:01:04
> how many scoops do you put in your feed?
> seriously, how do your measure and ingest this?Well, they supply a little scoop, and give a dose equivalency. I usually add one scoop to a smoothie. It doesn't dissolve well into water, so the blender solves that problem.
A half hour after ingestion, I eat something really sweet. The insulin pulse thus created helps pump the tryptophan into the brain.
BTW, I mis-spoke about the name of the product I use. I use the "Super-Tryptophane Ultra-Pure" product. The one with rice hulls is truly for the equine crowd.
Lar
Posted by elanor roosevelt on March 24, 2007, at 23:13:54
In reply to Re: veterinary tryptophan » elanor roosevelt, posted by Larry Hoover on March 22, 2007, at 7:28:42
Thanks Lar
I ordered some capsules.
if they help i will then go the horsie route
Posted by Larry Hoover on March 24, 2007, at 23:13:54
In reply to Re: 5 HTP Supplements... weight gain? » Larry Hoover, posted by jealibeanz on March 22, 2007, at 4:45:02
> Thanks for the links... I think I'm going to purchase the inexpensive capsults. It's worth a shot. I'm always up for trying new things. (I'm not too jaded yet. I think every new drug I try will be my magic cure.)
It is worth a shot. And, it promotes your body's ability to do what it naturally does.
> I decided not to go for the horse powder, although that site had a good description. They give it to horses to calm them before races? Sounds good to me.
Before races. For skittish mares at breeding. The biggest use, worldwide, is to keep pigs from fighting amongst themselves in confinement....errr....on farms.
> Have you noticed any real benefits?I've never done the experiment solo. I get an intuition to add some into the mix, and I go with that. It very likely helps.
> I'm going to have to stop the 5 HTP. It makes me clench my muscles and gives me a headache. Not what I was going for.
Known peripheral effects of serotonin. You want central serotonin.
Lar
Posted by elanor roosevelt on March 30, 2007, at 8:35:34
In reply to Re: 5 HTP Supplements... weight gain? » elanor roosevelt, posted by Larry Hoover on March 16, 2007, at 7:54:03
where do i begin with a tryptophan dosage?
Posted by Larry Hoover on March 30, 2007, at 9:23:58
In reply to tryptophan dosage, posted by elanor roosevelt on March 30, 2007, at 8:35:34
> where do i begin with a tryptophan dosage?
I'd start with a gram (1000 mg). Taken on an empty stomach. Half an hour later, have something to eat, preferably with something sweet, or of high glycemic index. The insulin pulse thus produced helps tryptophan target the brain. Therefore, taken on arising, followed by breakfast, works really well. If it makes you feel a little dopey, that's going to make it better for late in the day. Tryptophan is also a precursor for melatonin.
Lar
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Alternative | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.