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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 6 of 6. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by laima on January 27, 2007, at 8:06:02
So I got dlpa to augment Emsam, to see if it is different from l-phenylalanine. I'm hoping for maximum anti-depressing wakefulness. Has anyone got experience with both, any caveats? For example, are they of roughly equal potency, or is dlpa stronger? Anything like that?
Posted by djmmm on January 28, 2007, at 12:13:32
In reply to l-phenylalanine vs dlpa with Emsam, posted by laima on January 27, 2007, at 8:06:02
>
> So I got dlpa to augment Emsam, to see if it is different from l-phenylalanine. I'm hoping for maximum anti-depressing wakefulness. Has anyone got experience with both, any caveats? For example, are they of roughly equal potency, or is dlpa stronger? Anything like that?DLPA is preferred. D-phenylalanine is considered a non-nutritive amino acid. D-Phenylalanine effectively raise your body’s natural endorphin levels, because it is metabolized into PEA (phenylethylamine) The "L" isomer of DLPA is metabolized into tyrosine, which in turn converts to l-dopa, then to dopamine-->norepinephrine-- and finally epinephrine. I would suggest you stick with the DLPA, since (at least for me) the PEA derived from the "D" isomer has been very effective.
Posted by laima on January 29, 2007, at 8:48:39
In reply to Re: l-phenylalanine vs dlpa with Emsam, posted by djmmm on January 28, 2007, at 12:13:32
Thank you! I am feeling encouraged by the dlpa, here on day 3. I feel a bit "nicer", somehow. Does it kick in immediately then, or is it like an antidepressent, where it becomes more effective after a little time? The only thing I am unhappy with is I wish it was even more potent, and I do seem awfully exhausted in the evenings. (But who knows, maybe that's the super-freezing weather we are having. Not sure. ) How much dlpa are most people using with their Emsam? Take once a day, or more than once?
> DLPA is preferred. D-phenylalanine is considered a non-nutritive amino acid. D-Phenylalanine effectively raise your body’s natural endorphin levels, because it is metabolized into PEA (phenylethylamine) The "L" isomer of DLPA is metabolized into tyrosine, which in turn converts to l-dopa, then to dopamine-->norepinephrine-- and finally epinephrine. I would suggest you stick with the DLPA, since (at least for me) the PEA derived from the "D" isomer has been very effective.
Posted by danr49 on January 29, 2007, at 12:09:14
In reply to Re: l-phenylalanine vs dlpa with Emsam, posted by laima on January 29, 2007, at 8:48:39
> Thank you! I am feeling encouraged by the dlpa, here on day 3. I feel a bit "nicer", somehow. Does it kick in immediately then, or is it like an antidepressent, where it becomes more >effective after a little time?
Just my 2 cents:
I would think it would do both. The increase in PEA may have an effect within days. The increase in neurotransmitters from l-phenylalanine might lead to a delayed anti-depressant by augmenting the effects of the antidepressant you are on. This could take up to six weeks, I suppose. L-phenylalanine also increases PEA, not just the D isomer.Personally, I no longer believe in the "chemical imbalance" theory. There are too many logical inconsistencies with this theory, and some top researchers and pharmaceutical companies are also now starting to steer away from it and looking more towards the idea that these antidepressants are increasing neural plasticity and neurogenesis. These alternative theories would help to better explain why some antidepressants work for some and not for others, and also why there is a delay of up to six weeks or even longer in some before an antidepressant starts working, even though levels of serotonin will be signficantly increased after only a few days on a drug.
The increase of neurotransmitters between neurons may signal the brain that perhaps there aren't enough neurons for full reuptake of serotonin, etc, to occur, and this may lead to neurogenesis, which would take several weeks to occur and help to nicely back up this alternative theory as to how standard antidepressants really work.
Posted by laima on January 29, 2007, at 18:17:46
In reply to Re: l-phenylalanine vs dlpa with Emsam, posted by danr49 on January 29, 2007, at 12:09:14
Thank you. I don't really go for that 'chemical imbalance' theory either. (Didn't the Zoloft marketeers come up with it?) Well, I'm feeling very encouraged so far with dlpa-selegeline. It's already working out way better than phenylalanine, and better than most prescriptions I've tried. Fingers crossed I continue to feel progressive improvements.
Posted by laima on January 31, 2007, at 6:48:57
In reply to Re: l-phenylalanine vs dlpa with Emsam » danr49, posted by laima on January 29, 2007, at 18:17:46
Report: Dlpa with Emsam, lots of fish oil, and a few other aggressive adjustments yanked me out of a REALLY severe and seemingly unbudgeable, hopeless and jaded feeling depression!!!!! In under two weeks!!!!!!! Hooray!
I'm so impressed!!! Not bad, considering that just literally two weeks ago my mood was still best described as "ghastly". No, not bipolar. I just felt out of options, and very very discouraged. This dlpa is working out better than most prescriptions I've ever tried. I've been using it with my Emsam just under a week, after using l-phenylalanine off and on for quite a few months (depending on what was going on with prescription stims.) No, I'm not "cured", but since my self-improvement efforts began in earnest, people have been remarking how much better I look, and I feel "lighter", if you get what I mean. Therapist noted "dramatically increased vibrancy" in my chart :) Pdoc noticed that, and scratched his head, agreeing. I've also started to take about 2, then now 3 grams fish oil throughout the day, for the last two weeks. That must be playing a huge part, too. Switched from taking my cheapo Trader Joe multivitamin (when I remembered it) to a high quality Solgar multi, daily, without fail. Also, super dramatically increased excersise program- tough cardio classes, some pilates, 5 days per week. Banned sweets and crap out of diet, fairly ruthlessly. I'm drinking lots of blueberry-almond smoothies, eating more protein and vegetables. No klonopin, no zyprexa-and sleeping is alright. Intense cardio wears me out and puts me to sleep. Losing those 10-15 pounds gained from 6 weeks zyprexa earlier this winter! Anxiety is a mere shadow of what it used to be. The dlpa is the most recent addition to my multi-pronged regimine here, and so I deduce it may be a tipping factor for my case. Regardless, it blows away l-phenylalanine. I'm also certain that fish oil is crucial. It was only one week after the fish oil program started that the "vibrancy" comments started. I've used it before, but never this much, and I'd often forget to take it.
Couple questions, if anyone knows:
1)Best to take dlpa all in the AM, or split into perhaps two doses?
How long does an accute dose last? I gather from reading here on babble that there will be longer term, cumulative effects, too.
(I'm using 1000mg)Finally got my eagerly pined for Brand Name (Shire) Adderall, after being dismally disapointed with my Barre generic version. It's so different!! MUCH better!!! A much friendlier feeling drug-the Barre felt like it yanked me around quite a bit while only providing modest benefit, in comparison, then seemed to start to plunge my mood. Unlike pharmacist, doctor reported that generics are not under nearly as tough fda scrutiny as brand names are. So, I am testing it out now VERY gingerly, using less than prescribed, adding by half tablet gradually to get to prescribed dose (and checking blood pressure before, and then 3 hours after each dose-when it is supposed to peak in the body). That is what I've been instructed to do with stims-n-Emsam anyway- check with blood pressure reader before taking, and again at peak level, after each dose, for at least a week or longer, until it's clear what's going on. I am wary of any problem with either mood or blood pressure, any possible interaction with dlpa. But I've got a blood pressure reader, and so far, so good.
2)Can I accurately deduce dlpa has only modest effect on blood pressure? It sounds from some of the posts I've read that it's straight PEA which is the major, unpredictable blood pressure problem-maker. dlpa doesn't feel "stimulanty", though it does help modestly with alertness. How accurate do my assumptions sound?
3)Would one expect dlpa and adderall to interact in any way other than adding up to raise blood pressure? What I mean is, would they in any way interact synergistically together to create an exponential effect, especially considering Emsam is on board?
4)Can I, should I, take more fish oil? Or does there come a point where there are diminishing returns with it?
My highest reading over past few days was 116/79, pulse in the 80s. That was after some coffee, too-and about the highest I ever got- except with panic attacks in past- when I'd shoot up to 129/90 or so. (Note- cutting way down on coffee.) Soon after I wake up, it's more like up-to-100/60-65, or less, pulse depends on how suddenly I jump out of bed. Typical readings (with adderall) hover in the 110/75 neighborhood, pulse in the 80s. I think I'm doing alright then? I'm a female in her 30's.
I can't exaggerate how badly I wish I knew a top-notch psychiatrist who didn't poo-poo alternative therapies. Or met a top notch alternative person who didn't act as if pharmaceuticals were always to be avoided. Let alone pharmaceuticals like amphetamines! My psychiatrist scoffs even at multi-vitamins, though he's otherwise a great doctor.
This is the end of the thread.
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