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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Jakeman on May 27, 2005, at 21:20:40
I recently had a battery of blood tests. My level of IGF-1 (Insulin-like Growth Factor-1) was 103.
The doctor said that was low, probably due to stress, and could be connected to my problems with depression and insomnia. He recommended an over the counter product called rejuvenex (not sure of spelling). I can't find anything on the web about it, but they do carry it at a local pharmacy (People's Pharmacy).
Has anybody else dealt with this issue? Any comments appreciated.
-J
Posted by barbaracat on June 12, 2005, at 21:25:11
In reply to Growth hormone levels, posted by Jakeman on May 27, 2005, at 21:20:40
Yes, I was tested 2 years ago and had very low levels of IGF-1 and started daily injections of HGH. I have fibromyalgia which was why I was tested in the first place. It's helped quite dramatically with the fatigue and muscle stiffness and pain. My skin tone is good. I can't say it's given me the strength or vitality of a 25 year old but it has helped.
There are many products out there purported to increase HGH. One being secretogogues which act to boost your amino acid precursors. This is fine if that's the problem, but useless if you simply don't have enough HGH, which would be like flogging a dead horse. There are homeopathic remedies which are pure crap. The HGH molecule is very heat sensitive and delicate and does not survive a spray.
The only real way to supplement hGH is through injection and it can be quite expensive. I've found a Canadian source through www.clubhgh.com that has the best prices and highest quality I've found.
It takes a few months to really notice the difference, but if that's contributing to your problem, you'll really notice an improvement in all areas.
I recently had a battery of blood tests. My level of IGF-1 (Insulin-like Growth Factor-1) was 103.
>
> The doctor said that was low, probably due to stress, and could be connected to my problems with depression and insomnia. He recommended an over the counter product called rejuvenex (not sure of spelling). I can't find anything on the web about it, but they do carry it at a local pharmacy (People's Pharmacy).
>
> Has anybody else dealt with this issue? Any comments appreciated.
>
> -J
Posted by Jakeman on June 13, 2005, at 17:10:49
In reply to Re: Growth hormone levels » Jakeman, posted by barbaracat on June 12, 2005, at 21:25:11
> Yes, I was tested 2 years ago and had very low levels of IGF-1 and started daily injections of HGH. I have fibromyalgia which was why I was tested in the first place. It's helped quite dramatically with the fatigue and muscle stiffness and pain. My skin tone is good. I can't say it's given me the strength or vitality of a 25 year old but it has helped.
>
> There are many products out there purported to increase HGH. One being secretogogues which act to boost your amino acid precursors. This is fine if that's the problem, but useless if you simply don't have enough HGH, which would be like flogging a dead horse. There are homeopathic remedies which are pure crap. The HGH molecule is very heat sensitive and delicate and does not survive a spray.
>
> The only real way to supplement hGH is through injection and it can be quite expensive. I've found a Canadian source through www.clubhgh.com that has the best prices and highest quality I've found.
>
> It takes a few months to really notice the difference, but if that's contributing to your problem, you'll really notice an improvement in all areas.
>
>Barbaracat thanks for your feedback. The product I'm using is called Rejuvamax. It's one of the
secretogogues as you mentioned. Main ingredients are Argininie and Glutamine. I had my doubts but thought it wouldn't hurt to try it. From scanning the web it appears that the secretogougues are popular but I've not seen any research that backs up the claims. I had done a sleep study that showed I wasn't getting any stage 3-4 short wave sleep and had mild apnea. Supposedly growth hormore is produced during this deep sleep.So the Dr. recommended getting tested for a CPAP to help get decent sleep, and in the meantime take this supplement. His ideal is that you need good levels of growth hormone for good sleep, but at the same time not getting restorative sleep will deplete the growth hormone. I also wonder though if there are other supplements that are good for basic nutritional support of pituitary.
Thanks for the web-site. I had been thinking that getting real IGF-1 was completely cost prohibitive. I'm glad that you've gotten some good results. Have you notice much improvement in mood or sleep?
Thanks! ~Jake
Posted by Ed O`Flaherty on June 14, 2005, at 5:43:07
In reply to Re: Growth hormone levels » Jakeman, posted by barbaracat on June 12, 2005, at 21:25:11
> Yes, I was tested 2 years ago and had very low levels of IGF-1 and started daily injections of HGH. I have fibromyalgia which was why I was tested in the first place. It's helped quite dramatically with the fatigue and muscle stiffness and pain. My skin tone is good. I can't say it's given me the strength or vitality of a 25 year old but it has helped.
Barbaracat,Have you tried low dose naltrexone for the fibromyalgia? I have two patients who had a very poor quality of life who responded quite well to 4.5mg at night. It needs a prescription.See www.lowdosenaltrexone.org for more about it.I prescribe it for other conditions too including MS,autoimmune diseases and even some cancers.Ed O`F.
>
> There are many products out there purported to increase HGH. One being secretogogues which act to boost your amino acid precursors. This is fine if that's the problem, but useless if you simply don't have enough HGH, which would be like flogging a dead horse. There are homeopathic remedies which are pure crap. The HGH molecule is very heat sensitive and delicate and does not survive a spray.
>
> The only real way to supplement hGH is through injection and it can be quite expensive. I've found a Canadian source through www.clubhgh.com that has the best prices and highest quality I've found.
>
> It takes a few months to really notice the difference, but if that's contributing to your problem, you'll really notice an improvement in all areas.
>
>
>
> I recently had a battery of blood tests. My level of IGF-1 (Insulin-like Growth Factor-1) was 103.
> >
> > The doctor said that was low, probably due to stress, and could be connected to my problems with depression and insomnia. He recommended an over the counter product called rejuvenex (not sure of spelling). I can't find anything on the web about it, but they do carry it at a local pharmacy (People's Pharmacy).
> >
> > Has anybody else dealt with this issue? Any comments appreciated.
> >
> > -J
>
>
Posted by barbaracat on June 14, 2005, at 14:10:42
In reply to Re: Growth hormone levels, posted by Ed O`Flaherty on June 14, 2005, at 5:43:07
Hi Ed,
I tried the low dose naltrexone (4.5mg) a few years ago and didn't notice any improvement. This was when I was in going through the worst of it and nothing was helping. The amount I was spending for the pills was not worth the lack of help I received, although I've heard it's a real benefit for others.Fibro is such a strange condition and it's a crap shoot as to what remedy it will respond to.
Posted by barbaracat on June 14, 2005, at 15:06:14
In reply to Re: Growth hormone levels, posted by Jakeman on June 13, 2005, at 17:10:49
Jake, I have moderage sleep apnea and use a CPAP. I don't always because it's not the most attractive bedtime apparel (my husband calls me 'Dorothy Vadar'). But it does help very much in all ways. I have fibromyalgia and getting good stage IV sleep helps with the muscle pain and fatigue and cognitive function. Getting a good night's sleep helps definitely with mood. It's important to get that sleep apnea dealt with, Jake. It can cause worse problems than just mood.
As far as growth hormone, they're all tied in to one another. You produce growth hormone during Stage IV sleep. How you supplement it depends on your age and how much growth hormone you're naturally producing. If your pituitary is still producing a fair amount, then using a secretoguge will provide necessary precursors to support the natural production. But if you're over, say, 40 years old, there's nothing there to precurse. In other words, it would be like a postmenopausal woman wanting to get pregnant and taking vitamins and herbs to nourish her eggs. The supplements aren't going to hurt, but if there are no more eggs to nourish, well, you see what I mean.
In my case, I'm in my mid-50s so my growth hormone levels are kaput and kick starting them with secretogogues is a waste of money. The only way I'm going to get higher levels is through shots. I don't know of any other way to increase actual HGH other than by shots if you don't make it, or perhaps by secretegogues if you do. Now, there are studies showing that stress reduction and meditation increase levels of IGF-1 and certainly can't do harm. But, as I have to rely on adequate levels of HGH to function without pain, I'll go straight to the source and shoot 'er up.
As far as other results, my skin is firmer and moister, I have no wrinkles (but that's good genetics), my strength is better, but I haven't gotten the buff bod yet.
I'd suggest this for you: try the CPAP and work on getting consistent good night's sleep. That alone will raise your IGF levels. The secretogogues can't hurt and may boost things, but don't expect miracles in that area. Any miracles that come will be from getting consistent Stage IV sleep.
If after a few months your IGF levels are still low, consider HGH injections. They're no big deal to do and at the clubhgh.com site, pretty affordable.
Posted by Jakeman on June 16, 2005, at 19:53:11
In reply to Re: Growth hormone levels » Jakeman, posted by barbaracat on June 14, 2005, at 15:06:14
BarbaraCat-
That's so funny, "Dorothy Vadar". That was my first thought about cpap... in that it sure doesn't help the sex appeal factor. I had the titration study sunday night and only got two hours of bad sleep. The dr. has recommended that I do a trial with it a bipap machine, so I going ahead with that since I'm running out of choices. Hopefully I'll do better at home.
I'm getting close to age 50 so I imagine my growth hormone levels have peaked out. After years of negleting my body I'm trying implement the common sense things like reducing stress, diet, exercise... and sleep. The sleep issue is hard because my main problem is insomnia, getting to sleep and staying asleep. So far the sleep dr. has no anwsers for that except drugs. Taking elavil and lusesta now. I was interested in xyrem,(which some use for fibro) but due to my apnea that probably won't be an option. Later I'll may consider the IGF injections. I appreciate the info, your posts are very informative.
warm regards ~ Jake
Posted by barbaracat on June 16, 2005, at 20:40:02
In reply to Re: Growth hormone levels » barbaracat, posted by Jakeman on June 16, 2005, at 19:53:11
>>Taking elavil and lusesta now.
**Is that Lunestra? How do you like it? I take Ambien. It doesn't always work but I'll take a benzo at those times. Yes, insomnia is certainly it's own little hell. I think I've had it all my life. Can recall staring at the ceiling for hours in my crib. I don't know anything that really helps much as far as pills. Herbs are a joke. Sometimes melatonin helps. Waking up early, getting tons of exercise and physically exhausted is the best remedy. But I don't always feel like it. Like today, I'm just lolling about feeling mildly depressed and listless, yet at the same time a bit agitated. Have lots to do and things on my mind, and I know I'd feel better if I got my butt in gear - but I just don't wanna!
>>I was interested in xyrem,(which some use for fibro) but due to my apnea that probably won't be an option.
**What is xyrem? And why wouldn't it be an option for apnea?
>>Later I'll may consider the IGF injections.
**Definitely consider the www.clubhgh.com resource. I can vouch for the high quality and by far the best prices around. You can simply fax a waiver to get around the prescription issue, but it's good to at least get the correct dosage from your doc.
At least you know you have apnea and can be assured that the cpap will provide great benefit. It may take a bit to get used to but like anything else, you'll adapt and will soon be waking up refreshed after a good night's zzzzzzz's. - Barbara
Posted by Jakeman on June 16, 2005, at 21:15:22
In reply to Re: Growth hormone levels » Jakeman, posted by barbaracat on June 16, 2005, at 20:40:02
I've taken both, Ambien and Lunesta. For now I prefer Lunesta. Somehow it feels more natural and I tend to sleep longer on it than Ambien. I had used the twin drug Imovane before (ordered from overseas pharmacies) and it seems to be the same.
Xyrem is the brand name for the US version of GHB. There have been some posts here by people who use it fibromyalia. Some people love it, others are less impressed. There's some research that shows it increases stage 3/4 sleep and growth hormone. Apparently GHB depresses the respiratory system so it may be contraindicated for people with OSA. Here's a study you may or may not have seen:
Actually I looking forward to trying the new APAP machine to see what happens. And I do enjoy exercise immensely when I have the energy.
be well, Jake
Posted by barbaracat on June 16, 2005, at 21:30:35
In reply to Re: Growth hormone levels, posted by Jakeman on June 16, 2005, at 21:15:22
Thanks, I'll be asking my pdoc for Lunestra. I rarely dream on Ambien and that's reason enough to try something different. Maybe she even has samples cause all that stuff is expensive!
When GHB was still legal, I used it for about a year. It helped me sleep somewhat, but I was distinctly underwhelmed considering the reports of ecstatic glories. It put me into a zone that wasn't all that enjoyable. As I understand it, Zyrem is exhorbitantly expensive.
There was an off-brand med that I heard about recently that purportedly drastically raised HGH levels. Was it Metformin which is used for blood sugar? Tests were underway but then I heard no more about it. I'll look it up again. But again, I wonder if it's all moot if one's HGH levels aren't there to begin with.
I guess my feeling is, if your goal is to increase HGH, just inject the stuff and forget about the iffy secretogogues.
Posted by Declan on June 22, 2005, at 19:33:40
In reply to Re: Growth hormone levels » Jakeman, posted by barbaracat on June 16, 2005, at 21:30:35
Hi BC
In the July edition of Life Extension (magazine) there is a case report on the treatment of fibromyalgia with bioidentical hormones and other alternative stuff that you may find interesting. It would be available on the LEF website.
Declan
Posted by barbaracat on June 22, 2005, at 20:00:46
In reply to Re: Growth hormone levels, posted by Declan on June 22, 2005, at 19:33:40
I wasn't able to find the article. Can you provide the link? BCat
> Hi BC
> In the July edition of Life Extension (magazine) there is a case report on the treatment of fibromyalgia with bioidentical hormones and other alternative stuff that you may find interesting. It would be available on the LEF website.
> Declan
Posted by Declan on June 23, 2005, at 1:54:57
In reply to Re: Growth hormone levels » Declan, posted by barbaracat on June 22, 2005, at 20:00:46
Well I've got the actual magazine here, but as you've seen it's not on the website, at least not by typing in "July 2005 Life Extension magazine" to the search engine there. Thought it would be. A pity, it's 6 pages, by Sergey Dzugan. Hormones dealt with were DHEA-S, pregnenelone, total estrogen, progesterone, total testosterone. Here's a quote: "The HPA axis appears to play an important role in fibromyalgia. Both hyperactivity and hypoactivity of the HPA axis have been reported in patients with fibromyalgia. Some scientists have hypothesised that fibromyalgia is caused by an irreversible disturbance of the neuroimmunoendocrinological system. We partially support this hypothesis and believe that fibromyalgia patients have a dysfunction of the autonomic nervous system as a result of a hormonal deficiency associated with a loss of sensitivity of cell membranes to hormonal impuses. We do not agree, however, that this condition is irreversible......"
Very likely, (I hope), this means more to you than it does to me.
Declan
Posted by barbaracat on June 23, 2005, at 10:39:46
In reply to Re: Growth hormone levels, posted by Declan on June 23, 2005, at 1:54:57
It absolutely makes sense to me. It's the protocol and the hypothesis I've been following for the past 4 years since I got severely sick with it. It had been building forever it seems but it got to the point where I couldnt' work, drive, walk, and my lifetime mood disorder became severe. This happened right around menopause when all my hormones did a nose-dive. Fibromyalgia occurs primarily in women. Duh! a hormonal connection might be made here.
So, getting them in balance was the first thing, but not so easy if there's a malfunction in the HPA-axis. The hypothalamus needs to be in good shape to signal various brain structures to produce and uptake the various hormones in the proper amounts. A theory goes that structures within the limbic system get clobbered by early constant stress, which I had in a physically abusive childhood. In fact, it's estimated that a good 90% fibromyalgia sufferers are women (hormonal connection) who have had abusive childhoods (HPA connection).
The problem was that supplementing with hormones wasn't working because my hypothalamus and pituitary weren't talking to each other. The hypothalamus depends on the pituitary, which depends on growth hormone and if everything is malfunctioning, no amount of externally supplemented hormones are going to 'stick'.
So, the big piece for me was to get my pituitary functioning so it could be strong enough to cascade the signals down through the HPA-axis, and that's where the human growth hormone shots came in. My IGF-1 test showed a very low level which confirmed that something wasn't right. Since there was so little bulk product to work with, secretogogues were moot, so I started injecting HGH 6 mornings a week. It took about 4 months to feel the difference, both the strength and flexibility that comes directly from HGH, but more importantly, the ability for my hormones to work as they should.
They thyroid is sooooo important to fibro. Most of the symptoms of hypothyroidism and fibromyalgia are identical and I really notice it when my thryoid is malfunctioning. This is one of the reasons I've decided to wean off lithium, since Li can cause increasing damage to the thyroid. I've tried this before and always came running back, but I'm hoping with all my other systems finally running smoothly, this is the time to give it another try.
I'll contact LEF and try to get that article. I'm so glad others are beginning to recognize and treat this condition because it IS REAL and even though there could be many reasons for this syndrome, the HPA-axis one sure makes the most sense to me - and treating it has helped immensely. - Barbara
> Well I've got the actual magazine here, but as you've seen it's not on the website, at least not by typing in "July 2005 Life Extension magazine" to the search engine there. Thought it would be. A pity, it's 6 pages, by Sergey Dzugan. Hormones dealt with were DHEA-S, pregnenelone, total estrogen, progesterone, total testosterone. Here's a quote: "The HPA axis appears to play an important role in fibromyalgia. Both hyperactivity and hypoactivity of the HPA axis have been reported in patients with fibromyalgia. Some scientists have hypothesised that fibromyalgia is caused by an irreversible disturbance of the neuroimmunoendocrinological system. We partially support this hypothesis and believe that fibromyalgia patients have a dysfunction of the autonomic nervous system as a result of a hormonal deficiency associated with a loss of sensitivity of cell membranes to hormonal impuses. We do not agree, however, that this condition is irreversible......"
> Very likely, (I hope), this means more to you than it does to me.
> Declan
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