![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 33. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by taylor18 on December 16, 2003, at 4:51:40
I have a friend that's trying to get off Xanax. She's not addicted, but she just needs a substitute to cope with the anxiety. I don't want to recommend something that might not work or is somewhat experimental. I also don't want to recommend something too terribly strong.
I could really use some help on this.
Posted by clairey on December 16, 2003, at 8:35:02
In reply to Friend trying to get off Xanax - alternatives, posted by taylor18 on December 16, 2003, at 4:51:40
> I have a friend that's trying to get off Xanax. She's not addicted, but she just needs a substitute to cope with the anxiety. I don't want to recommend something that might not work or is somewhat experimental. I also don't want to recommend something too terribly strong.
>
> I could really use some help on this.
They say niacinamide a form of vitamin B3 (not niacin) is kinda like the benzo's, as it binds the same receptors as they do.
Mabie tell her to try it, you can take 500mg up to 4 times a day.
claire :)
Posted by gabbix2 on December 16, 2003, at 22:53:24
In reply to Friend trying to get off Xanax - alternatives, posted by taylor18 on December 16, 2003, at 4:51:40
Kava Kava would probably be the most helpful, but the kind you buy from health food stores is next to useless. True medicinal Kava root from Hawaii seems to be available only over the internet, and
that has become increasingly more difficult due to the recent health alerts (of which I am highly skeptical)Lemon Balm, Skullcap, Hops, California Poppy,
Passion flower, and Valerian are all somewhat calming, I think Gaia herbs is one company makes tinctures containing combinations of them which are significantly more potent than any one of the herbs alone.
Celestial Seasonings is pretty mainstream but makes a tea which is surprisingly effective called Tension Tamer.Xanax is a short acting Benzodizepine though, and not much else is going to give that kind of intense relief in my opinion, having been on and off different benzo's several times myself.
They may help your friend taper and assist in anxiety relief after your friend is off them though.
Posted by zenhussy on December 17, 2003, at 1:55:32
In reply to Re: Friend trying to get off Xanax - alternatives, posted by gabbix2 on December 16, 2003, at 22:53:24
>Kava Kava would probably be the most helpful, but the kind you buy from health food stores is next to useless. True medicinal Kava root from Hawaii seems to be available only over the internet, and that has become increasingly more difficult due to the recent health alerts (of which I am highly skeptical)
>Lemon Balm, Skullcap, Hops, California Poppy, Passion flower, and Valerian are all somewhat calming, I think Gaia herbs is one company makes tinctures containing combinations of them which are significantly more potent than any one of the herbs alone.taylor18 & gabbix2,
I successfully treated my depression for about a year with a combination of herbs and supplements. Gaia formulas were a main component of that treatment. Dosing throughout the day was important as well. Back then I was using the alcohol tinctures but now there are alternatives.
Here's a link to two versions of only one part of what I used to take (contains a bunch of the herbs you mentioned above Gabbi):
http://www.gaiaherbs.com/page35.htm specifically the Phyto-Prōz Supreme if you want tincture form
http://www.gaiaherbs.com/Page20.htm if you want the 'phyto' caps
Phyto-Prōz is a proprietary blend of:
St. John’s Wort Flower bud
Kava Kava rhizome
Schizandra berry
Siberian Ginseng root
Passionflower vine
Wild Oats milky seed
Gotu Kola herb
Prickly Ash bark
Nettle seed
Calamus rootMind you please, I was not taking pharmaceutical anti-depressants at the same time as I used herbs and supplements to treat my depression. I consulted with professional herbalists (not natural food store or health food store clerks) and kept my pdoc apprised of my treatment.
A major failing of this treatment that worked so well was that back then I was still so early in being diagnosed that I thought, foolishly, I could stop taking the herbs and supplements when I was feeling better cuz that meant I was better. Hah! Oh the folly of youth and the distortions of this disease.
More than you asked for but hope it is of some use to you.
zenhussy
Posted by zenhussy on December 17, 2003, at 2:07:57
In reply to Re: Gaia Herbs, posted by zenhussy on December 17, 2003, at 1:55:32
Posted by taylor18 on December 17, 2003, at 2:37:26
In reply to Re: Gaia Herbs, posted by zenhussy on December 17, 2003, at 1:55:32
Do you remember if that supplement, Melissa Supreme, helped with anxiety relief and insomnia as well?
Also, clairey, whats the most potent, purest best form of niacinamide. Not form, I mean brand.
Posted by clairey on December 17, 2003, at 2:56:54
In reply to Re: Gaia Herbs, posted by taylor18 on December 17, 2003, at 2:37:26
> Do you remember if that supplement, Melissa Supreme, helped with anxiety relief and insomnia as well?
>
> Also, clairey, whats the most potent, purest best form of niacinamide. Not form, I mean brand.Im not sure which brand but i would go for one with around 500mg per capsule.
Also try tranquili G, type it on a search engine. I have herd it is great for anxiety and works within 30mins to an hour i would say or less.
Also go to www.remedyfind.com they have loads of reviews on drugs and herbs/supplements for anxiety and someone put a good review under niacinamide
claire
Posted by zenhussy on December 17, 2003, at 3:05:45
In reply to Re: Gaia Herbs, posted by taylor18 on December 17, 2003, at 2:37:26
> Do you remember if that supplement, Melissa Supreme, helped with anxiety relief and insomnia as well?
I never personally took that particular formula. Based on what I know of the science behind the company (I'm big on standardized herbals that are accountable to scientific standards and qc http://www.gaiaherbs.com/page4.htm ) and having used about 40-50 different products of theirs over the past 13 years I like the consistant quality of their herbs. Just my opinion and experience from years of medicinal herbal usage, growing, self made preperations and studies.
My experience with lemon balm and german chamomile for anxiety has been using them in the form of high quality essential oils. They've been very helpful in times of excessive anxiety in addition to my current medications and other therapies I use to stay upright.
Most essential oils should NOT BE USED INTERNALLY!!!! I do not recommend anyone use essential oils if they do not have an extensive understanding of chemisty, for the damage that can be done with the potency of essential oils is severe. Used safely they are a wonderful adjunct to many therapies. Being so potent they often cause allergic reactions in many. Know what you're doing before trying this type of thing.
Lots of good sources out there about using essential oils in many ways for mood therapy.
But back to your question---no, haven't personally used the Gaia Melissa Supreme.
As for insomnia, first try to describe the type of insomnia you're having. Trouble falling asleep? Racing mind? Trouble staying asleep? Frequent waking throughout the night? Waking early and not being able to fall back asleep?
Lots of types of insomnia. Lots of suggestions for relief. Easier to suggest when more information is available.
zh
Posted by Jai Narayan on December 17, 2003, at 8:44:03
In reply to Re: Gaia Herbs, posted by zenhussy on December 17, 2003, at 1:55:32
I am on the retail end of the herbs. My favorite Kava is by Gaia. They make a Kava liquid in a cap.
My understanding about the pulling of Kava....insurance companies are saying they will not cover Kava in their policy....some of the vitamin/herb companies are owned by multiple owners, who make the safest decision for their company. They don't want to buck the insurance companies. I am very sad about that and hope we can hang onto Kava. I find it works like nothing else for me when I have to go to the dentist. Kava stops all that anxiety.
I guess my rant would be....Viagra kills KILLS men. The FDA know's that for a fact. But are they pulling or not insuring Viagra????
I am so unhappy with the FDA and their constant threatening vitamins and herbs. IMHO
Posted by gabbix2 on December 17, 2003, at 10:13:37
In reply to Re: Gaia Herbs, posted by taylor18 on December 17, 2003, at 2:37:26
Melissa is another name for Lemon Balm, it would help with isomnia/anxiety. As for the other products mentioned they'd be excellent for depression, but not necessarily for anxiety or more specifically Xanax withdrawal
Gotu Kola, and Ginseng are both stimulants; I use them both regularly for depression but they are the first thing to go if I'm feeling particularly anxious.
Everyone is different of course, but you had mentioned that you didn't want to try anything experimental.
Posted by zenhussy on December 17, 2003, at 10:20:34
In reply to Re: Gaia Herbs, posted by gabbix2 on December 17, 2003, at 10:13:37
Posted by gabbix2 on December 17, 2003, at 10:35:58
In reply to Re: Gaia Herbs ^^ kava, posted by Jai Narayan on December 17, 2003, at 8:44:03
You put that so very mildly, "I'm so unhappy with what the F.D.A is doing" ;)
I'm afraid I can't be nearly as kind about it.
Grrrrrrr
Posted by gabbix2 on December 17, 2003, at 10:46:18
In reply to Re: Siberian Ginseng is NOT a stimulant (nm) » gabbix2, posted by zenhussy on December 17, 2003, at 10:20:34
I wasn't referring to what you'd mentioned specifically I was referring to depression combinations as opposed to anxiety combinations. It can get really complicated, getting into Siberian Korean, Red Ginseng,et al and which blood types should actually be taking which type, according to which philosphy you follow. Its also confusing because some anxiety as I know you know can be lifted by stimulants.. mine has been but I was simply generalizing because she'd mentioned that she didn't want anything experimental thats all. Trying to keep it simple for this thread only cause it can get awfully confusing.
Posted by zenhussy on December 17, 2003, at 11:12:39
In reply to No Siberian Ginseng Isn't. » zenhussy, posted by gabbix2 on December 17, 2003, at 10:46:18
Yeah I wasn't really up to having the adaptogenic herbs versus stimulant herbs conversation either.
But it is dangerous to lump all ginsengs together when they have vastly different properties.
Just wanted to state that siberian ginseng (eleutherococcus senticosus) is considered an adaptogen.
I hear you on the simplification though.
zh
Posted by gabbix2 on December 17, 2003, at 11:13:06
In reply to No Siberian Ginseng Isn't. » zenhussy, posted by gabbix2 on December 17, 2003, at 10:46:18
I just realized I couldn't possible know whether you are a man or a woman.
Posted by gabbix2 on December 17, 2003, at 11:57:57
In reply to Re: No Siberian Ginseng Isn't. » gabbix2, posted by zenhussy on December 17, 2003, at 11:12:39
Siberian "ginseng" isn't technically Ginseng so its not actually lumping them together. Thats why I thought the simplification would be a good idea.
Its getting away from the Xanax help and into a whole other area.. which would require a whole other thread..a board even : )
Posted by clairey on December 17, 2003, at 12:05:53
In reply to Re: Gaia Herbs, posted by gabbix2 on December 17, 2003, at 10:13:37
> Melissa is another name for Lemon Balm, it would help with isomnia/anxiety. As for the other products mentioned they'd be excellent for depression, but not necessarily for anxiety or more specifically Xanax withdrawal
> MELLISSA LEAF IS SO MILD FOR ANXIETY MANY DO NOT NOTICE ANY EFFECT AT ALL.
> Gotu Kola, and Ginseng are both stimulants; I use them both regularly for depression but they are the first thing to go if I'm feeling particularly anxious.
>
> Everyone is different of course, but you had mentioned that you didn't want to try anything experimental.
>
Posted by gabbix2 on December 17, 2003, at 12:37:36
In reply to Re: Gaia Herbs » gabbix2, posted by clairey on December 17, 2003, at 12:05:53
> > MELLISSA LEAF IS SO MILD FOR ANXIETY MANY DO NOT NOTICE ANY EFFECT AT ALL.
Taylor 18 was asking about Melissa supreme, a Gaia combination tincture. Because Melissa is used for relaxation I assumed this was an anxyiolitic tincture.
True Melissa leaf alone doesn't do to much for many which is why I recommended it with other herbs in my first post.
The synergistic effect especially with passion flower can be quite potent.Though as I'd also mentioned I don't think much aside from perhaps organic Kava Kava is going to offer the relief of a Benzodiazepine
Anyway, I looked up Melissa Supreme and it is for stress/relaxation. And it is in combination with Passion flower among other herbs.
as follows:
Ingredients: Proprietary Blend 120 mg: Extracts from Lemon Balm (Melissa off.), German Chamomile Flowers (Matricaria recutita), Passionflower (Passiflora incarnata), fresh Skullcap Herb (Scutellaria lateriflora), fresh Wild Oat Milky Seed (Avena sativa), Concentrated Glycerite (Centella asiatica), Mineral Salts Extracted from Kelp, and 50-60% pure Vegetable Glycerin.
Posted by clairey on December 17, 2003, at 17:11:14
In reply to Re: Gaia Herbs » clairey, posted by gabbix2 on December 17, 2003, at 12:37:36
> > > MELLISSA LEAF IS SO MILD FOR ANXIETY MANY DO NOT NOTICE ANY EFFECT AT ALL.
>
> Taylor 18 was asking about Melissa supreme, a Gaia combination tincture. Because Melissa is used for relaxation I assumed this was an anxyiolitic tincture.
>
> True Melissa leaf alone doesn't do to much for many which is why I recommended it with other herbs in my first post.
> The synergistic effect especially with passion flower can be quite potent.
>
> Though as I'd also mentioned I don't think much aside from perhaps organic Kava Kava is going to offer the relief of a Benzodiazepine
>
> Anyway, I looked up Melissa Supreme and it is for stress/relaxation. And it is in combination with Passion flower among other herbs.
> as follows:
>
>
> Ingredients: Proprietary Blend 120 mg: Extracts from Lemon Balm (Melissa off.), German Chamomile Flowers (Matricaria recutita), Passionflower (Passiflora incarnata), fresh Skullcap Herb (Scutellaria lateriflora), fresh Wild Oat Milky Seed (Avena sativa), Concentrated Glycerite (Centella asiatica), Mineral Salts Extracted from Kelp, and 50-60% pure Vegetable Glycerin.
>
>
>
>
> I FIND USING TINTURES IS BEST, BUT THE LITTLE BOTTLES YOU GET WHERE YOU HAVE TO ADD ABOUT 15 DROPS JUST ISNT ENOUGH REALLY. I THINK THE TRANQUILI G MAY BE OF SOME HELP THOUGH
>
Posted by gabbix2 on December 17, 2003, at 18:15:37
In reply to Re: Gaia Herbs » gabbix2, posted by clairey on December 17, 2003, at 17:11:14
I FIND USING TINTURES IS BEST, BUT THE LITTLE BOTTLES YOU GET WHERE YOU HAVE TO ADD ABOUT 15 DROPS JUST ISNT ENOUGH REALLY. I THINK THE TRANQUILI G MAY BE OF SOME HELP THOUGH
I like the tinctures too, they work fast, and are more potent than teas as a rule.
I'd missed that you suggested the tranquil G Sorry.
it sounds really good!
Posted by clairey on December 17, 2003, at 18:30:24
In reply to Re: Gaia Herbs, posted by gabbix2 on December 17, 2003, at 18:15:37
> I FIND USING TINTURES IS BEST, BUT THE LITTLE BOTTLES YOU GET WHERE YOU HAVE TO ADD ABOUT 15 DROPS JUST ISNT ENOUGH REALLY. I THINK THE TRANQUILI G MAY BE OF SOME HELP THOUGH
>
> I like the tinctures too, they work fast, and are more potent than teas as a rule.
> I'd missed that you suggested the tranquil G Sorry.
> it sounds really good!
>READ UP ON IT, ITS BEEN APPROVED BY THE FDA AND IS SAFE SO NO WORRIES
Posted by KellyD on December 17, 2003, at 20:39:13
In reply to Re: Gaia Herbs » gabbix2, posted by clairey on December 17, 2003, at 18:30:24
"READ UP ON IT, ITS BEEN APPROVED BY THE FDA AND IS SAFE SO NO WORRIES"
What suppliment or alternative substance can make this claim?
Please provide a source to back this up, as I can't find FDA "approval" on anything I take - I usually find a disclaimer.
Kelly
Posted by taylor18 on December 17, 2003, at 21:09:34
In reply to Taylor 18 I just said you were a Woman I'm sorry.., posted by gabbix2 on December 17, 2003, at 11:13:06
Hehe, 18/m :)
Posted by gabbix2 on December 17, 2003, at 21:10:32
In reply to Re: Gaia Herbs » gabbix2, posted by clairey on December 17, 2003, at 18:30:24
It is approved by the FDA http://www.smartbodyz.com/tranquil-g-text.htm
The FDA approval may be for safety, not for the claims of the product. Thats a personal issue though. Myself I don't have much faith in FDA claims.
Posted by KellyD on December 17, 2003, at 21:30:34
In reply to Tranquil G » clairey, posted by gabbix2 on December 17, 2003, at 21:10:32
I'm confusing "approval" with "endorsing".
I realize there are important differences and they aren't to be equated.
So - my bad - Sorry.
Kelly
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Alternative | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.