![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 310 to 334 of 795. Go back in thread:
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 3, 2013, at 3:29:57
In reply to Lou's rply- The Hsiung-Pilder discussion-1050578 » Dr. Bob, posted by Lou Pilder on December 1, 2013, at 15:22:11
> > I'm ... open to the following compromise: if (1) we agree that a statement could potentially be seen as putting down Jews and (2) we agree on a restatement that would be more conducive to the civic harmony and welfare of this community, then I'll post that restatement to that thread.
>
> I am open to any way that you could effect remedial action to the posts in question that in particular but not limited to, put down Jews and/or be accusative or defaming to me or others.
> One way that you have already done so is in the following. The idea is to do something in the thread where the post in question appears so that:
> A. readers could know that the statement is not supportive or conducive to the civic harmony and welfare of the community and will not be good for this community as a whole,
> and,
> B. The reason that changes what was originally posted that could be seen as civil, but now it is not.
> and,
> C. If or if not you made an error originally.My preference would be to do this in a positive way. Rather than label a statement as not supportive, post a restatement that would be more supportive. Rather than label myself as having done something wrong, doing something better.
If you'd consider that, we could give it a try and see if it's actually possible.
Bob
Posted by SLS on December 3, 2013, at 8:27:11
In reply to Re: I'm glad you think so (nm) » SLS, posted by Dr. Bob on December 3, 2013, at 2:23:15
You have the patience of a saint.
I see that your current interactions with Lou Pilder are very positive and constructive. I am incredulous. But then again, that's why they pay you the big bucks.
:-)
- Scott
Posted by Lou Pilder on December 3, 2013, at 10:01:27
In reply to Re: The Hsiung-Pilder discussion, posted by Dr. Bob on December 3, 2013, at 3:29:57
> > > I'm ... open to the following compromise: if (1) we agree that a statement could potentially be seen as putting down Jews and (2) we agree on a restatement that would be more conducive to the civic harmony and welfare of this community, then I'll post that restatement to that thread.
> >
> > I am open to any way that you could effect remedial action to the posts in question that in particular but not limited to, put down Jews and/or be accusative or defaming to me or others.
> > One way that you have already done so is in the following. The idea is to do something in the thread where the post in question appears so that:
> > A. readers could know that the statement is not supportive or conducive to the civic harmony and welfare of the community and will not be good for this community as a whole,
> > and,
> > B. The reason that changes what was originally posted that could be seen as civil, but now it is not.
> > and,
> > C. If or if not you made an error originally.
>
> My preference would be to do this in a positive way. Rather than label a statement as not supportive, post a restatement that would be more supportive. Rather than label myself as having done something wrong, doing something better.
>
> If you'd consider that, we could give it a try and see if it's actually possible.
>
> BobMr Hsiung,
I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean here by what you have posted to me. If you could post what you prefer to do with the following, then I could have a better understanding of your proposal and respond accordingly. I would like to see how you could address this post that puts down, in particular but not limited to, Jews.
The post is something like:
[...Christianity is the only religion that has a pathway back to God...]
What I would be looking for in your response to that post is if your response clarifies to readers that the statement in question is not conducive to the civic harmony and welfare of the community according to your rules to not post what could put down those of other faiths that do have a pathway back to God, which I think could put out any fire of hate toward Jews and Islamic people and the others that could result from the insult to those people of those religions by the statement precluding those people of those faiths that are not Christiandom based, from having a pathway back to God.
Lou Pilder
Posted by Phillipa on December 3, 2013, at 19:12:28
In reply to Lou's reply-The Hsiung-Pilder discussion-pstlbrnng » Dr. Bob, posted by Lou Pilder on December 3, 2013, at 10:01:27
Lou is anyone sure of what you post. I feel that you could be unsure for a long time. Is Dr Bob in your eyes unable to post a comment so you feel sure? Phillipa
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 5, 2013, at 0:49:12
In reply to Re: I'm glad you think so » Dr. Bob, posted by SLS on December 3, 2013, at 8:27:11
> You have the patience of a saint.
Thanks. Wouldn't you say Lou has shown patience, too?
Bob
Posted by SLS on December 5, 2013, at 8:09:35
In reply to Re: patience, posted by Dr. Bob on December 5, 2013, at 0:49:12
> > You have the patience of a saint.
>
> Thanks. Wouldn't you say Lou has shown patience, too?
>
> BobI would say that Lou Pilder excels in his resolve and vigilance to effect change. I am not as sure about his having patience, though. However, I am not as "tuned-in" to him as you are.
- Scott
Posted by Lou Pilder on December 5, 2013, at 18:01:56
In reply to Re: patience, posted by Dr. Bob on December 5, 2013, at 0:49:12
> > You have the patience of a saint.
>
> Thanks. Wouldn't you say Lou has shown patience, too?
>
> BobMr Hsiung,
You wrote, [...Lou has shown patience.... ]The fact that you have stated that you give yourself the option of not responding to me so that others can see your non-response to my requests/notifications as some type of encouragement for the members to also not respond to me, is in and of itself described in the psychological literature. And the fact that you have had multiple deputies to do your wishes, and they also have not responded to my requests/notifications over years, could cause
Posted by Dinah on December 6, 2013, at 9:12:29
In reply to Lou's response- » Dr. Bob, posted by Lou Pilder on December 5, 2013, at 18:01:56
Lou, I'm one post away from posting things I have heretofore kept off the boards. It seems vastly unfair of Dr. Bob that you are allowed to post anti-deputy remarks without our being able to defend ourselves with the full facts.
Posted by Dinah on December 6, 2013, at 9:20:26
In reply to Lou's reply-vhngeznizmynsezHe » SLS, posted by Lou Pilder on November 28, 2013, at 8:11:08
> My question here is could not the deputies not using their power to sanction anti-Semitic statements cause outrage to Jews and other people of other faiths that also could feel put down when they read a statement that is allowed to stand that could lead those in question to feel put down? The feelings that Jews could have by seeing anti-Semitic statements being allowed to stand by all of the deputies can cause a Jew to speculate as to why all of those deputies have not responded to the notifications that the deputies state to use that feature to report anti-Semitic statements. As to if that could cause me to hate them, I guess it could cause outrage and that could lead to hatred toward them for some to seek vengeance against them.
If the only way to protect myself against anti-deputy statements that may arouse hatred and "vengeance" against deputies - vengeance that could conceivably take the form of violence, is to go against my moral code, then it is obviously time to leave this place.
Get behind me, tempter of dishonor. By which, of course, I do not mean Lou.
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 6, 2013, at 9:44:13
In reply to Lou's reply-The Hsiung-Pilder discussion-pstlbrnng » Dr. Bob, posted by Lou Pilder on December 3, 2013, at 10:01:27
> > > > I'm ... open to the following compromise: if (1) we agree that a statement could potentially be seen as putting down Jews and (2) we agree on a restatement that would be more conducive to the civic harmony and welfare of this community, then I'll post that restatement to that thread.
>
> I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean here by what you have posted to me. If you could post what you prefer to do with the following, then I could have a better understanding of your proposal and respond accordingly. I would like to see how you could address this post that puts down, in particular but not limited to, Jews.
>
> What I would be looking for in your response to that post is if your response clarifies to readers that the statement in question is not conducive to the civic harmony and welfare of the community according to your rulesI think you mean this statement in this post:
> > What is Christianity? The only religion that offers a pathway for you to return back to God.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faith/20080404/msgs/832658.html
I propose I post to that thread something like:
> The above could be read as saying other faiths don't offer such a pathway. It would've been more civil to say:
>
> > > What is Christianity? A religion that offers a pathway for you to return back to God.
>
> Follow-ups regarding this should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. Thanks.Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 6, 2013, at 9:52:48
In reply to Re: Lou's reply-vhngeznizmynsezHe, posted by Dinah on December 6, 2013, at 9:20:26
> If the only way to protect myself against anti-deputy statements ... is to go against my moral code, then it is obviously time to leave this place.
Scott, would you consider coaching Dinah on using her shield effectively? That might enable her to stay without going against her moral code. Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Dinah on December 6, 2013, at 11:47:49
In reply to Re: protection » SLS, posted by Dr. Bob on December 6, 2013, at 9:52:48
I'd be interested to hear Scott's response on how 10der and I should learn to accept that the moderator of this site thinks it's acceptable for people, or a person, to throw sh*t at us at this site.
Posted by jane d on December 6, 2013, at 14:56:54
In reply to Re: protection, posted by Dinah on December 6, 2013, at 11:47:49
> I'd be interested to hear Scott's response on how 10der and I should learn to accept that the moderator of this site thinks it's acceptable for people, or a person, to throw sh*t at us at this site.
(( dinah )) Vapor. He's throwing vapor. People here have known (and loved) you for years. That's not going to change.
Posted by Lou Pilder on December 6, 2013, at 15:52:47
In reply to Re: The Hsiung-Pilder discussion, posted by Dr. Bob on December 6, 2013, at 9:44:13
> > > > > I'm ... open to the following compromise: if (1) we agree that a statement could potentially be seen as putting down Jews and (2) we agree on a restatement that would be more conducive to the civic harmony and welfare of this community, then I'll post that restatement to that thread.
> >
> > I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean here by what you have posted to me. If you could post what you prefer to do with the following, then I could have a better understanding of your proposal and respond accordingly. I would like to see how you could address this post that puts down, in particular but not limited to, Jews.
> >
> > What I would be looking for in your response to that post is if your response clarifies to readers that the statement in question is not conducive to the civic harmony and welfare of the community according to your rules
>
> I think you mean this statement in this post:
>
> > > What is Christianity? The only religion that offers a pathway for you to return back to God.
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faith/20080404/msgs/832658.html
>
> I propose I post to that thread something like:
>
> > The above could be read as saying other faiths don't offer such a pathway. It would've been more civil to say:
> >
> > > > What is Christianity? A religion that offers a pathway for you to return back to God.
> >
> > Follow-ups regarding this should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. Thanks.
>
> BobMr Hsiung,
Your proposal is looked at by me to determine if what you are going to post in that thread:
A. Lets readers know that the original post in question is not conducive to the civic harmony and welfare of the community
B. It is against the rule that you have to not post what could put down those of other faiths
C. There is a reason that for years the post was allowed to stand by you and the former deputies that were on record at the time of posting so that readers do not have to speculate as to why a post that puts down Jews and Islamic people and all other people that have faiths that are not Christian that do have a pathway back to God.
In my evaluation of your proposal, I see that you did say that the statement in question could be seen by readers as that other faiths do not offer such a pathway. Then your more civil re wording does abide by your rule to not use words that preclude other faiths from having a pathway back to God such as [...{only }Christianity has a pathway...].
As to if readers could know why you and those former deputies did not post otherwise for years, readers could still have to speculate about the reason for that.
But be it as it may be, that is another aspect of all of this, so if you post your proposed post in that thread, it could be better for Jews and Islamic people and the others that the statement insults. For people then could see that originally the post was something that was not conducive to the civic harmony and welfare of the community and so others might not post the same thing or anything analogous to it after you post your proposed post there.
Lou Pilder
Posted by Lou PIlder on December 6, 2013, at 18:58:26
In reply to Lou's reply- The Hsiung-Pilder discussion-lstyrz » Dr. Bob, posted by Lou Pilder on December 6, 2013, at 15:52:47
> > > > > > I'm ... open to the following compromise: if (1) we agree that a statement could potentially be seen as putting down Jews and (2) we agree on a restatement that would be more conducive to the civic harmony and welfare of this community, then I'll post that restatement to that thread.
> > >
> > > I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean here by what you have posted to me. If you could post what you prefer to do with the following, then I could have a better understanding of your proposal and respond accordingly. I would like to see how you could address this post that puts down, in particular but not limited to, Jews.
> > >
> > > What I would be looking for in your response to that post is if your response clarifies to readers that the statement in question is not conducive to the civic harmony and welfare of the community according to your rules
> >
> > I think you mean this statement in this post:
> >
> > > > What is Christianity? The only religion that offers a pathway for you to return back to God.
> >
> > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faith/20080404/msgs/832658.html
> >
> > I propose I post to that thread something like:
> >
> > > The above could be read as saying other faiths don't offer such a pathway. It would've been more civil to say:
> > >
> > > > > What is Christianity? A religion that offers a pathway for you to return back to God.
> > >
> > > Follow-ups regarding this should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. Thanks.
> >
> > Bob
>
> Mr Hsiung,
> Your proposal is looked at by me to determine if what you are going to post in that thread:
> A. Lets readers know that the original post in question is not conducive to the civic harmony and welfare of the community
> B. It is against the rule that you have to not post what could put down those of other faiths
> C. There is a reason that for years the post was allowed to stand by you and the former deputies that were on record at the time of posting so that readers do not have to speculate as to why a post that puts down Jews and Islamic people and all other people that have faiths that are not Christian that do have a pathway back to God.
> In my evaluation of your proposal, I see that you did say that the statement in question could be seen by readers as that other faiths do not offer such a pathway. Then your more civil re wording does abide by your rule to not use words that preclude other faiths from having a pathway back to God such as [...{only }Christianity has a pathway...].
> As to if readers could know why you and those former deputies did not post otherwise for years, readers could still have to speculate about the reason for that.
> But be it as it may be, that is another aspect of all of this, so if you post your proposed post in that thread, it could be better for Jews and Islamic people and the others that the statement insults. For people then could see that originally the post was something that was not conducive to the civic harmony and welfare of the community and so others might not post the same thing or anything analogous to it after you post your proposed post there.
> Lou PilderMr Hsiung,
Now that we have that one past us and there will be a post in tha thread by you, let us go on to the another post. This is the one that says something like:
[...One of the top ten worst reasons for organized religion ia if they have their agenda not centered in Chrsit...]
I am looking for in this case, that you could post to show that the statement is not conducive to the civic harmony and welfare of the community and it is not in accordance with your rule to not post what could put down those of other faiths.
Lou Pilder
Posted by larryhoover on December 6, 2013, at 22:10:19
In reply to Re: protection, posted by Dinah on December 6, 2013, at 11:47:49
> I'd be interested to hear Scott's response on how 10der and I should learn to accept that the moderator of this site thinks it's acceptable for people, or a person, to throw sh*t at us at this site.
I can't believe that I'm a witness to such an abuse of civility. Truly, sincerely, there is no better example of what civility actually is, than to protect individuals from the throwing of sh*t upon them.
Lar
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 8, 2013, at 14:17:46
In reply to Re: protection » Dinah, posted by larryhoover on December 6, 2013, at 22:10:19
> such an abuse of civility.
Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down.
More information about posting policies and tips on alternative ways to express yourself, including a link to a nice post by Dinah on I-statements, are in the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforceFollow-ups regarding these issues, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
PS: This block is the result of one action, but its length is the result of a pattern of actions. The block length formula takes into account how long the previous block was, how long it's been since the previous block, and how uncivil the current post is:
duration of previous block = 1 week
period of time since previous block = 3 weeks
severity = 2 (default)
block length = 1.92 rounded = 2 weeks
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 8, 2013, at 14:19:11
In reply to Re: protection » Dinah, posted by jane d on December 6, 2013, at 14:56:54
Posted by Lou Pilder on December 8, 2013, at 15:01:51
In reply to Re: protection, posted by Dinah on December 6, 2013, at 11:47:49
> I'd be interested to hear Scott's response on how 10der and I should learn to accept that the moderator of this site thinks it's acceptable for people, or a person, to throw sh*t at us at this site.
Dinah,
I could be the subject person in this post and the "us" could be the former deputies and what is being thrown at those deputies past could be analogous to excrement. What is associated with that excrement is not stated in this post, nor who constitutes the subset of people that are the "us". By that there is not specified who in your post is the target person that "throws whatever at the "us" people, the statement IMHO could arouse hostile and disagreeable feelings and opinions toward me and decrease the confidence , respect and regard in which I am held. In following other posts here, it could be that the excrement is, IMO.
A. My posting my objection to that there are anti-Semitic statements being allowed to stand here
B. My posting that I want those statements that could arouse anti-Semitic feelings purged from this site
C. My posting that I want a former deputy to post answers to questions that I have posted in response to what the former deputy posted so that clarification could happen so that I could respond accordingly
D. My postings that I think that Mr Hsiung along with his former deputies constitute one entity so that by inaction of the administration to sanction a post that puts down Jews in particular, but not limited to, is inaction by all of them.
E. Something else.
But be it as it may be, it is a fact that there are anti-Semitic statements standing that I want addressed by the administration in any way that could show readers that the statement is not conducive to the civic harmony and welfare of this community and those statements in question are not in accordance with the rule to not post what could put down those of other faiths.
The issue as to why years of notifications/requests by me are still outstanding is something that I do not want readers to speculate as to why 6 or so deputies and the owner/operator have not responded to them and the fact that anti-Semitic statements could arouse hatred toward me when readers see those being allowed to be thought by a subset of readers to be good for this community as a whole. This is something that I think that us have a duty to humanity to stop. This is because of the harm that could come to others by seeing those statements in question as supportive and what the historical record shows has happened to communities that foster anti-Semitism by allowing anti-Semitic statements to stand. I think that there could be harm to others and a great risk to the health of Jewish children and adults, and Islamic people and the others that hatred toward them has the potential to be aroused to by the statements in question. One being proposed to Mr. Hsiung now is the one that says something like:
[...One of the top ten worst reasons for organized religion is if their agenda is not centered in Christ...] The statement insults those of faiths that have their agenda not centered in Christ. I am no threat to you for being on record as a deputy when that was posted, if you were, but there could be others that see the inaction as an insult to their faith not only by Mr. Hsiung, but by you and the other deputies of record then as well. And more could be thrown at you than excrement.
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 8, 2013, at 15:28:44
In reply to Lou's reply- The Hsiung-Pilder discussion-wurz, posted by Lou PIlder on December 6, 2013, at 18:58:26
> As to if readers could know why you and those former deputies did not post otherwise for years, readers could still have to speculate about the reason for that.
> But be it as it may be, that is another aspect of all of this, so if you post your proposed post in that thread, it could be better for Jews and Islamic people and ... others ... For people then could see that originally the post was something that was not conducive to the civic harmony and welfare of the community and so others might not post the same thing or anything analogous to it after you post your proposed post there.Thanks, I appreciate your willingness to compromise. And your devotion to civility.
--
> let us go on to the another post. This is the one that says something like:
> [...One of the top ten worst reasons for organized religion ia if they have their agenda not centered in Chrsit...]
> I am looking for in this case, that you could post to show that the statement is not conducive to the civic harmony and welfare of the community and it is not in accordance with your rule to not post what could put down those of other faiths.I think you mean this statement in this post:
> > top 10 worst reasons for organized religion:
> > 5. to foster any agenda that is not centered in Christhttp://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faith/20040729/msgs/378930.html
I propose I post to that thread something like:
> The above could be read as saying an agenda not centered in Christ is a bad reason for an organized religion. It would've been more civil to say:
>
> > top 10 worst reasons for organized religion:
> > 5. to foster any agenda that is not centered in Christ or other scripture
>
> Follow-ups regarding this should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. Thanks.Bob
Posted by Lou Pilder on December 8, 2013, at 16:17:21
In reply to Re: The Hsiung-Pilder discussion, posted by Dr. Bob on December 8, 2013, at 15:28:44
> > As to if readers could know why you and those former deputies did not post otherwise for years, readers could still have to speculate about the reason for that.
> > But be it as it may be, that is another aspect of all of this, so if you post your proposed post in that thread, it could be better for Jews and Islamic people and ... others ... For people then could see that originally the post was something that was not conducive to the civic harmony and welfare of the community and so others might not post the same thing or anything analogous to it after you post your proposed post there.
>
> Thanks, I appreciate your willingness to compromise. And your devotion to civility.
>
> --
>
> > let us go on to the another post. This is the one that says something like:
> > [...One of the top ten worst reasons for organized religion ia if they have their agenda not centered in Chrsit...]
> > I am looking for in this case, that you could post to show that the statement is not conducive to the civic harmony and welfare of the community and it is not in accordance with your rule to not post what could put down those of other faiths.
>
> I think you mean this statement in this post:
>
> > > top 10 worst reasons for organized religion:
> > > 5. to foster any agenda that is not centered in Christ
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faith/20040729/msgs/378930.html
>
> I propose I post to that thread something like:
>
> > The above could be read as saying an agenda not centered in Christ is a bad reason for an organized religion. It would've been more civil to say:
> >
> > > top 10 worst reasons for organized religion:
> > > 5. to foster any agenda that is not centered in Christ or other scripture
> >
> > Follow-ups regarding this should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. Thanks.
>
> BobMr. Hsiung,
We are using a two-part test:
1. Does the remedial action tell readers that the original statement is not conducive to the civic harmony and welfare of the community. 2. Does the remedial statement show that the original statement puts down those of other faiths.
Let us examine your proposal to see.
The above says that a subset of readers could read the original statement as,[... an agenda not centered in Christ is a bad reason for an organized religion...]I would be more civil to say....
Now that does show that the original statement does not pass the muster for being in accordance with the rules for your use of {a bad reason} could show that the statement is not supportive.
Let us look further at your proposal that says:
[...to foster an agenda that is not centered in Christ or other scripture...]
In your statement there, the question becomes how could a subset of readers think about that?
The question becomes as to if there are {organized religions} that do not have scripture at all. And then if there are organized religions that have scripture, that also use other means to arrive at there agenda that could contradict scripture of theirs. If so, then those religions would still be put down by reading your proposed remediation, could they not? For they say that scripture is not the only basis for establishing doctrine, or that the scripture of other groups has counterfeited passages.
I do not see your proposal in that respect to eliminate a subset of readers from seeing that also as a statement that could put down those of other faiths.
Here is my proposal. Just leave the second part out and say something like:
[...The statement does not reflect the posting policies here for we do not condone statements that categorize one faith to be better than another...].
Lou Pilder
Posted by 10derheart on December 8, 2013, at 16:48:59
In reply to Lou's response-phatwah » Dinah, posted by Lou Pilder on December 8, 2013, at 15:01:51
>>And more could be thrown at you than excrement.
Is this a threat?
What does it mean? Please explain.
I feel threatened by it.
We may be moving toward revelations of off-board communications, with or without permission.
Posted by Lou Pilder on December 8, 2013, at 17:52:55
In reply to Re: what is this » Lou Pilder, posted by 10derheart on December 8, 2013, at 16:48:59
> >>And more could be thrown at you than excrement.
>
> Is this a threat?
>
> What does it mean? Please explain.
>
> I feel threatened by it.
>
> We may be moving toward revelations of off-board communications, with or without permission.
>
>
10,
The statements here that could be understood by a subset of readers that insult Judaism and Islam and other faiths go to other countries. There are those that could hold you and the other deputies of record when a post that insults Islam is left to stand, which could mean to a subset of readers that those that could have acted on the statement chose to not do so because they think that it will be good for this community as a whole to allow those type of statements to be unsanctioned, which could mean that the administration could want those statements to be seen as conducive to the civic harmony and welfare of the community. Statements that insult Judaism, Islam and other faiths put down those faiths. There are countries where that could put on-line promoters of what they say will be good for a community as a whole, that insult Islam, to be captured and killed or imprisoned.
So if you think that by you failing to act on these statements that you have some type of immunity in some other countries, be advised that there are countries where anyone that is involved in insulting Islam could be executed,, even the deputies of the on-line promoter and conceivably any of the members that are in concert with you to allow statements that put down and insult Islam.
Lou
http://rt.com/news/saudi-blogger-sentenced-islam-846
Posted by SLS on December 8, 2013, at 19:05:56
In reply to Lou's reply- » 10derheart, posted by Lou Pilder on December 8, 2013, at 17:52:55
Can you prove who or what I am referring to?
- Scott
Posted by SLS on December 8, 2013, at 19:42:32
In reply to Lou's reply- » 10derheart, posted by Lou Pilder on December 8, 2013, at 17:52:55
I am not impressed with my singing.
- Scott
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