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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 35. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Twinleaf on September 12, 2013, at 22:36:19
In reply to What makes Babble worthwhile..., posted by Twinleaf on September 10, 2013, at 9:38:32
To be more specific, why not have a discussion and vote on the blocking policy, covering whether the blocks should remain short or be extended according to current policy, whether they should be occasional (which might suit Dr. Bob better),and the kinds of things which should be blocked (I believe the general impression is that very small, obscure infractions were punished very severely previously, and that that same policy is essentially still in effect). I think it is very reasonable for Dr. Bob and the members of the community to work towards commonly agreed-upon principles as to how Babble is run as soon as possible, as, for example, was done very successfully for the medication reference sources.
Otherwise, we basically remain a dictatorship - not a healthy or constructive way to do things.
Posted by Partlycloudy on September 12, 2013, at 22:36:19
In reply to Re: What makes Babble worthwhile..., posted by Twinleaf on September 10, 2013, at 10:05:12
I likely won't participate in such a discussion. Not because it would not be fruitful, but I am not articulate and objective enough. I tend to see problems as assigned to an individual, one or another, rather than a group-think discussion.
I am more than happy to abide to the outcome of these discussions, and I truly appreciate those who do the hard work for the benefit of us all.
PC
Posted by Phillipa on September 12, 2013, at 22:36:20
In reply to Re: What makes Babble worthwhile..., posted by Twinleaf on September 10, 2013, at 10:05:12
Do you feel that in most cases a block is warranted or a PBC? And maybe other posters in the thread reminding the offender that if not being civil to please respect the feeling of others in the thread? Just a suggestion. Phillipa
Posted by Phil on September 12, 2013, at 22:36:20
In reply to Re: What makes Babble worthwhile... » Twinleaf, posted by Phillipa on September 10, 2013, at 18:33:12
There was a girl moderating a forum I go to. She came on the forum one day and there was some arguing going on and she let loose the longest line of cuss words I've ever heard(she's in the psychology field in Amsterdam, works in a locked ward, and calls me her favorite nutter.)
Everyone calmed down just not to piss her off again.
Posted by alexandra_k on September 12, 2013, at 22:36:20
In reply to What makes Babble worthwhile..., posted by Twinleaf on September 10, 2013, at 9:38:32
I think it is a hard one because some other people are saying that they are leaving because the blocks aren't as harsh as they used to be or because Bob isn't blocking people the way he once was. And people saying that others being uncivil to them really affected them a great deal... And that thinking of reduced time (or no time) for people who are uncivil to them... Makes them feel unsafe posting here.
I think Bob has been willing to discuss... I think he has (at least tried to) listen. I think sometimes his responses do sound dismissive... But I don't think he intends them to be so... I think he is concerned about providing stability and if he is going to err he errs on the side of tradition / conservativism.
Posted by sigismund on September 12, 2013, at 22:36:20
In reply to Re: What makes Babble worthwhile..., posted by Phil on September 10, 2013, at 20:04:03
> There was a girl moderating a forum I go to. She came on the forum one day and there was some arguing going on and she let loose the longest line of cuss words I've ever heard(she's in the psychology field in Amsterdam, works in a locked ward, and calls me her favorite nutter.)
> Everyone calmed down just not to piss her off again.An example of national differences when it comes to forms of expression?
Posted by Twinleaf on September 12, 2013, at 22:36:21
In reply to What makes Babble worthwhile..., posted by Twinleaf on September 10, 2013, at 9:38:32
Dr.Bob, would you be willing to open the several aspects of your blocking policy up for a community vote on their preferences? I feel certain that almost everyone would willingly follow the majority preference, and it would resolve a difficult issue which has been present for many years.
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 12, 2013, at 23:03:56
In reply to What makes Babble worthwhile..., posted by Twinleaf on September 10, 2013, at 9:38:32
> I was just thinking about what makes me return to Babble ... and I think there is basically one reason. Despite everything, Babble has been a source of hope for those of us trying to improve the quality of our lives. ... Unfortunately, this source of support and hope has diminished markedly in recent years.
> I would love to see Babble solve it's problems. I find it hard to see the years of discussion about the civility rules, the blocking policies and the social media contacts essentially resulting in no changes. We could have used this time to arrive at policies which were far more acceptable to both Dr. Bob and to a majority of the community.
If the problem is less support and hope, then the answer would seem to be more support and hope.
It struck me that (1) this thread was started on Social and (2) there were a number of follow-ups to it, but none to a new poster asking for support immediately below it.
Bob
Posted by alexandra_k on September 13, 2013, at 6:15:00
In reply to Re: support and hope, posted by Dr. Bob on September 12, 2013, at 23:03:56
>there were a number of follow-ups to it, but none to a new poster asking for support immediately below it.
and what am I... chopped liver?i noticed that, too... i feel sad when conflicts about the way the site is run seem to take up most of peoples energy / efforts. at the expense of the things that they say they (used to) like about the site.
i'm not sure what (if anything) can be done about that.
be the change you wish to see...
Posted by Twinleaf on September 13, 2013, at 6:51:32
In reply to Re: support and hope, posted by Dr. Bob on September 12, 2013, at 23:03:56
I feel very disappointed that you did not acknowledge or answer my question. I think it is a fair and important one, and relevant to the healthy functioning of this site.
Posted by Phillipa on September 13, 2013, at 10:02:44
In reply to Re: support and hope » Dr. Bob, posted by Twinleaf on September 13, 2013, at 6:51:32
I see redirected want to be on the thread. Phillipa
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 13, 2013, at 10:06:27
In reply to Re: support and hope, posted by alexandra_k on September 13, 2013, at 6:15:00
> > there were a number of follow-ups to it, but none to a new poster asking for support immediately below it.
>
> and what am I... chopped liver?I meant when I first saw it. Thanks for your support. :-)
Bob
Posted by sleepygirl2 on September 15, 2013, at 14:36:25
In reply to Re: support and hope, posted by Dr. Bob on September 13, 2013, at 10:06:27
Procrastination....
Definitely what makes it worthwhile.
I need it to avoid other things.
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 15, 2013, at 22:26:27
In reply to Re: support and hope, posted by sleepygirl2 on September 15, 2013, at 14:36:25
Posted by Toph on September 16, 2013, at 15:59:13
In reply to Re: What makes Babble worthwhile..., posted by Twinleaf on September 12, 2013, at 22:36:19
Since this is the admin board I know we often focus on rules. What makes Babble worthwile for me TL is it's values. I am not sure if there is a heierarchy of values but these come to mind when I think of PB: respect, support; education, community, privacy and safety.
I'm sure there are more. I would hope that rules are derived from the site's values.
Posted by Twinleaf on September 18, 2013, at 12:33:06
In reply to Re: What makes Babble worthwhile...Dr. Bob, posted by Twinleaf on September 12, 2013, at 22:36:21
I am disappointed that you did not even offer me the respect of replying to my question. I think it would have been much healthier and sounder to allow our community to develop into something more like a participatory democracy, in which members' preferences have some (not total) importance. Your lack of response forces us to remain more like an autocracy - the dullest, most stressful and least creative kind of group.
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 18, 2013, at 22:52:21
In reply to Re: What makes Babble worthwhile...Dr. Bob, posted by Twinleaf on September 18, 2013, at 12:33:06
> I am disappointed that you did not even offer me the respect of replying to my question. I think it would have been much healthier and sounder to allow our community to develop into something more like a participatory democracy, in which members' preferences have some (not total) importance. Your lack of response forces us to remain more like an autocracy - the dullest, most stressful and least creative kind of group.
Your preferences are important to me. I guess how creative an autocracy is depends on how creative (and autocratic) the autocrat is.
Would you like more power? Deputies have more power. We also discussed a Community Council before. Would you be interested in either of those roles?
Bob
Posted by Twinleaf on September 19, 2013, at 6:10:42
In reply to Re: autocracy, posted by Dr. Bob on September 18, 2013, at 22:52:21
In my view, an autocracy, no matter how creative the autocrat, is not as creative or sound as a participatory democracy.
I would like to see a community vote on the different aspects of the blocking policy. If you create guidelines for blocking which are in harmony with the majority opinion, I would be supportive of whatever decision you made in any particular instance, and would not see a need for a Community Council, which might be quite cumbersome in practice.
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 19, 2013, at 10:53:00
In reply to Re: autocracy » Dr. Bob, posted by Twinleaf on September 19, 2013, at 6:10:42
> In my view, an autocracy, no matter how creative the autocrat, is not as creative or sound as a participatory democracy.
>
> I would like to see a community vote on the different aspects of the blocking policy. If you create guidelines for blocking which are in harmony with the majority opinion, I would be supportive of whatever decision you made in any particular instance, and would not see a need for a Community Council, which might be quite cumbersome in practice.I don't foresee asking the community to vote on the blocking policy. Given that, would you see a need for a Community Council? One downside of participatory democracy is it can be cumbersome.
Bob
Posted by Moishe Pipik on September 19, 2013, at 11:16:09
In reply to Re: autocracy, posted by Dr. Bob on September 19, 2013, at 10:53:00
Bob's gonna give us all copies of "Robert's Rules of Order". Then, we can all be on the same page, mental masturbation-wise.
Posted by Twinleaf on September 19, 2013, at 12:46:50
In reply to Re: autocracy, posted by Dr. Bob on September 19, 2013, at 10:53:00
May I ask why you do not want the community's input on an issue of such central importance?
The history of sharing leadership with you -i.e. the deputies - has been unexpectedly negative, and I fear that a Community Council would encounter similiar difficulties. I don't think one is needed. In my view, community input and support for your general way of administrating is all that is needed. At the moment, this site is run by a blocking policy which has very little (perhaps no) community support. This is a continuing stress which no-one needs, and which weakens the sense of community solidarity. I think you would find that working out an acceptable blocking policy would be extremely helpful - to both you and us.
As a successful example, you just recently asked for community input about medication references. To me, this is the kind of action on your part which strengthens the community, and enhances the experience of individual posters.
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 19, 2013, at 21:25:54
In reply to Re: autocracy » Dr. Bob, posted by Twinleaf on September 19, 2013, at 12:46:50
> May I ask why you do not want the community's input on an issue of such central importance?
I value the community's input. It's been posted here, and I've appreciated it.
> The history of sharing leadership with you -i.e. the deputies - has been unexpectedly negative, and I fear that a Community Council would encounter similiar difficulties. I don't think one is needed.
I agree, sharing leadership could be difficult. If I don't need to, that's OK, I can continue to lead by myself.
Bob
Posted by twinleaf on September 19, 2013, at 23:16:11
In reply to Re: autocracy, posted by Dr. Bob on September 19, 2013, at 21:25:54
It sounds like you do want to run Babble as an autocracy. I'd like to return this exchange to its original message, which you have not addressed, and whose meaning you have altered once again. This was that I hope you will consider the advantages of a limited participatory democracy, which would involve finding out by vote what kind of blocking policy the community would be happiest to have.
Posted by Willful on September 20, 2013, at 12:47:45
In reply to Re: autocracy » Dr. Bob, posted by twinleaf on September 19, 2013, at 23:16:11
I don't think it's possible for Bob to do what you're asking Twinleaf, although I understand why you feel that a vote would yield a definitive answer about participant opinion.
I do think a vote would be divisive and not helpful on matter that are as crucial to the running of a message board as blocking and other core matters of right and wrong, which I think must ultimately be in the domain of the person responsible for the board-- who is Bob. None of us bear this responsiblity and therfore none of us really are in the right position to make the ultimate decisions.
But a vote on these matters would I think inflame everyone here-- and if I"m correct that it is in Bob's perview to make these decisions-- would only lead to frustration, disappointment and a sense of impotence on the part of other participants. It's true we don't have the role of making ultimate decisions-- but I think Bob has shown himself to be open to our opinion on other, less core, and less sensitive matters. I hope we will find him open on other matters if they anyone raises them.
I suppose you can say this is an autocracy-- but maybe we haven't tested the limits of our potential participation--
Willful
Posted by Twinleaf on September 20, 2013, at 13:57:29
In reply to Re: autocracy, posted by Willful on September 20, 2013, at 12:47:45
Well, you are probably right. I had in mind a general kind of vote, which would still involve a lot of flexibility and choice for Bob. Even if the vote did not go exactly my way, I would be glad we had had one, and don't think I would have trouble going along with the views of the majority. But I haven't noticed anyone agreeing with me, so I guess it's a lost cause...
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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