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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by tensor on August 18, 2013, at 16:50:57
This site could really benefit from a makeover. Its style dates back to the 90's. People like rich-text editors, able to add avatar, signature, general info and all the functionality a more modern forum can provide that's built on, for example, vBulletin.
While I know it's not an easy undertake, being a system developer, it may be what is required for Babble's survival.
On other similar forums, PB is frequently referenced - being a pioneer in the field - and it hurts to see it die. I have been here since 1999.
Existing users should be able to keep their post count in a new forum, this shouldn't be hard to achieve.A few points I was thinking about the other night.
1. No PBC ever. Allow users to be "uncivil" to users whose behavior is erratic. This works surprisingly well on other forums.
2. Admins and moderators should censor and remove offensive or inappropriate posts or parts of posts as they see fit, without having to explain.
3. There should NEVER be a follow-up when a moderator delete or censor comments. Users simply adhere to the rules or GTFO.
4. No Admin board whatsoever.
5. Don't overcomplicate rules with banning systems only a mathematician could figure out. Banning is done by admins/moderators. Rules should be written in stone and NOT open for discussion.Yes, I'm serious.
/tensor
Posted by Phillipa on August 18, 2013, at 22:23:55
In reply to Site makeover, posted by tensor on August 18, 2013, at 16:50:57
Tensor I'd start with updating the meds at the top of the medication site as many no longer used. Or eliminate any names as meds change so quickly. Phillipa
Posted by Happyflower123 on August 19, 2013, at 10:44:45
In reply to Re: Site makeover » tensor, posted by Phillipa on August 18, 2013, at 22:23:55
The site IS outdated looking, no doubt about that. But getting it redesigned takes money to have it done if you don't have knowledge on how to do so and time. I have the knowledge, but I also know the time it takes, and how much it costs to hire someone. Perhaps Dr. Bob, if he still is that the university, he might have an intern knowledgeable in this area. But I doubt with all he is busy with, the look of this site isn't high on the priority list.
Even though the rules are always "up for debate" history has shown it rarely ever ends positively, if anything, it seems likely to cause more riffs and hurt feelings overall. I am guessing more blocks have been issued on the administration board than any other. It makes one wonder if having the administration board available creates a platform for more conflict and uncivil-ness. It would certainly be the perfect design experiment for research on conflict and resolution. haha! Rules aren't decided by anyone other than Dr. Bob. It's his site, he can do as he wishes. Members should just accept that and save themselves a lot of time and grief over it and leave it be. Or leave. It's a simple choice, really. That being, I agree, administration should be closed or private for overall harmony of the site. I rarely have see any changes made or much of anything positive in my view. If you want to be in the clubhouse, you have to play by the owner's rules. Simple enough I believe.
I have learned the hard way in life, somethings just can't or won't be changed and it would be more fruitful of your time and energy to pursue other causes where you can make a difference or be the change you wish to see. There are many causes out there,you just have to pick the right ones. :)
Posted by Moishe Pipik on August 19, 2013, at 10:44:50
In reply to Re: Site makeover » tensor, posted by Phillipa on August 18, 2013, at 22:23:55
The out-of-date med and book info really shows how even basic maintenance of this site has been sorely neglected, not to mention the many other areas in need of help.
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 20, 2013, at 11:29:31
In reply to Re: Site makeover, posted by Moishe Pipik on August 19, 2013, at 10:44:50
> The out-of-date med and book info really shows how even basic maintenance of this site has been sorely neglected, not to mention the many other areas in need of help.
>
> Moishe PipikIt's true, I've neglected that. What specifically should I change about the med and book info?
--
> This site could really benefit from a makeover. Its style dates back to the 90's. People like rich-text editors, able to add avatar, signature, general info and all the functionality a more modern forum can provide that's built on, for example, vBulletin.
> Existing users should be able to keep their post count in a new forum, this shouldn't be hard to achieve.
>
> /tensor> The site IS outdated looking, no doubt about that. But getting it redesigned takes money to have it done if you don't have knowledge on how to do so and time. I have the knowledge, but I also know the time it takes, and how much it costs to hire someone.
>
> Happyflower123Some people might prefer a more up-to-date interface. Others might prefer what they're used to.
I've been thinking, it doesn't need to be either-or. The same posts could be displayed different ways. People could choose the interface they prefer.
What newer interfaces do you like? Do any of you have experience maintaining any of them?
--
> A few points I was thinking about the other night.
>
> 1. No PBC ever. Allow users to be "uncivil" to users whose behavior is erratic. This works surprisingly well on other forums.
> 2. Admins and moderators should censor and remove offensive or inappropriate posts or parts of posts as they see fit, without having to explain.
> 3. There should NEVER be a follow-up when a moderator delete or censor comments. Users simply adhere to the rules or GTFO.
> 4. No Admin board whatsoever.
> 5. Don't overcomplicate rules with banning systems only a mathematician could figure out. Banning is done by admins/moderators. Rules should be written in stone and NOT open for discussion.
>
> /tensor> Even though the rules are always "up for debate" history has shown it rarely ever ends positively, if anything, it seems likely to cause more riffs and hurt feelings overall. I am guessing more blocks have been issued on the administration board than any other. It makes one wonder if having the administration board available creates a platform for more conflict and uncivil-ness. It would certainly be the perfect design experiment for research on conflict and resolution. haha! Rules aren't decided by anyone other than Dr. Bob. It's his site, he can do as he wishes. Members should just accept that and save themselves a lot of time and grief over it and leave it be. Or leave. It's a simple choice, really. That being, I agree, administration should be closed or private for overall harmony of the site. I rarely have see any changes made or much of anything positive in my view. If you want to be in the clubhouse, you have to play by the owner's rules. Simple enough I believe.
>
> Happyflower123I know the culture at other forums is different. Maybe Babble has evolved to occupy a different niche in the online ecosystem.
In a way, Admin is the Politics of Babble. And in politics, feelings do sometimes get hurt.
Bob
Posted by tensor on August 20, 2013, at 12:15:12
In reply to Re: Site makeover, posted by Dr. Bob on August 20, 2013, at 11:29:31
> Some people might prefer a more up-to-date interface. Others might prefer what they're used to.
And it's possible that those who prefer a more modern style has moved on. I think the number of people who prefer this style is rapidly decreasing and I think those people would adapt to a new interface before long and never look back.
> I've been thinking, it doesn't need to be either-or. The same posts could be displayed different ways. People could choose the interface they prefer.
Sure, but wouldn't a move to one new interface be challenging and expensive (as in time and money) enough?
> What newer interfaces do you like? Do any of you have experience maintaining any of them?
I like the interface they have over at socialanxietysupport.com but they all use vBulletin and they are very easy to get going and to maintain. http://www.vbulletin.com/
> I know the culture at other forums is different. Maybe Babble has evolved to occupy a different niche in the online ecosystem.
Can you clarify? What niche do you mean?
This is still a forum and I think it should be seen as such.> In a way, Admin is the Politics of Babble.
Do we really need it? Why?
>And in politics, feelings do sometimes get hurt.
And this is one of the reasons I think it should be removed, nothing good comes out of it.
/tensor
Posted by Emme_V2 on August 20, 2013, at 12:44:28
In reply to Re: Site makeover » Dr. Bob, posted by tensor on August 20, 2013, at 12:15:12
I may be in the majority (I really don't know), but one of the things I like about psychobabble is the user interface. I find the lack of visual clutter really nice. If Bob decides to change the interface and update it, I hope he'll keep simplicity in mind. (Think about it - Google understands this concept - their main page is mostly just their name in big letters and a single search box.)
Posted by tensor on August 20, 2013, at 13:01:14
In reply to Re: Site makeover, posted by Emme_V2 on August 20, 2013, at 12:44:28
> I may be in the majority (I really don't know), but one of the things I like about psychobabble is the user interface. I find the lack of visual clutter really nice. If Bob decides to change the interface and update it, I hope he'll keep simplicity in mind. (Think about it - Google understands this concept - their main page is mostly just their name in big letters and a single search box.)
>I agree, simplicity is important and 15 years or so online speaks for itself. I think one should keep available boards to a minimum, some forums have so specialized sub-boards it's almost ridiculous, no one ever posts in them.
Do you find this too cluttered?
http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/f30/
Sorry for posting a link to another forum but it's for "demonstrational" purposes only.
While Google has understood simplicity, it would also be hard to make it complicated, since it's basically a text-box and a button./tensor
Posted by tensor on August 20, 2013, at 13:09:16
In reply to Re: Site makeover, posted by Emme_V2 on August 20, 2013, at 12:44:28
> I may be in the majority (I really don't know), but one of the things I like about psychobabble is the user interface. I find the lack of visual clutter really nice. If Bob decides to change the interface and update it, I hope he'll keep simplicity in mind. (Think about it - Google understands this concept - their main page is mostly just their name in big letters and a single search box.)
>I forgot one thing, although existing users may find the current layout satisfying, I suspect it's starting to fail to attract new users. Or put another way, a more modern interface would perhaps attract more users, which is vital to keep the activity high.
/tensor
Posted by Moishe Pipik on August 20, 2013, at 13:48:20
In reply to Re: Site makeover, posted by Dr. Bob on August 20, 2013, at 11:29:31
A link to an external reliable glossary of psych meds would be the simplest thing to do. Such lists are available on many good web sites, and THEY do the maintenance instead of you.
There are sooooo many psych self-help books and such, that I'm not sure about what might be a useful approach.
Posted by Emme_V2 on August 20, 2013, at 14:12:34
In reply to Re: Site makeover » Emme_V2, posted by tensor on August 20, 2013, at 13:01:14
> > I may be in the majority (I really don't know), but one of the things I like about psychobabble is the user interface. I find the lack of visual clutter really nice. If Bob decides to change the interface and update it, I hope he'll keep simplicity in mind. (Think about it - Google understands this concept - their main page is mostly just their name in big letters and a single search box.)
> >
>
> I agree, simplicity is important and 15 years or so online speaks for itself. I think one should keep available boards to a minimum, some forums have so specialized sub-boards it's almost ridiculous, no one ever posts in them.
> Do you find this too cluttered?
> http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/f30/
> Sorry for posting a link to another forum but it's for "demonstrational" purposes only.
> While Google has understood simplicity, it would also be hard to make it complicated, since it's basically a text-box and a button.
>
> /tensor
I do find your example site a bit uncomfortable, although certainly better than some others I've seen. I could live with it. I find most of the Internet kind of hard to look at actually. I have a visual impairment that I think contributes to my dislike of visual clutter.
Posted by tensor on August 20, 2013, at 14:22:51
In reply to Re: Site makeover » tensor, posted by Emme_V2 on August 20, 2013, at 14:12:34
> I do find your example site a bit uncomfortable, although certainly better than some others I've seen. I could live with it. I find most of the Internet kind of hard to look at actually. I have a visual impairment that I think contributes to my dislike of visual clutter.
>Okay. Time will tell what Dr. Bob ultimately chooses to do. I don't know if you're interested, but vBulletin comes as complete ready-to-use community with a basic design that is non-cluttered. You just choose which features you want. I like the idea that there are apps for iOS and Android.
/tensor
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 22, 2013, at 3:06:20
In reply to Re: Site makeover » Dr. Bob, posted by Moishe Pipik on August 20, 2013, at 13:48:20
> > I've been thinking, it doesn't need to be either-or. The same posts could be displayed different ways. People could choose the interface they prefer.
>
> Sure, but wouldn't a move to one new interface be challenging and expensive (as in time and money) enough?I know, the best is the enemy of the good. I myself like being able to choose, but maybe I should just decide and posters who don't like it can GTFO.
> > I know the culture at other forums is different. Maybe Babble has evolved to occupy a different niche in the online ecosystem.
>
> Can you clarify? What niche do you mean?
>
> > In a way, Admin is the Politics of Babble.
>
> Do we really need it? Why?
>
> /tensorIt gives posters a voice. That could be Babble's niche. It could be a forum for people who value having a voice. Or value the administration having a voice. Unlike forums where:
> 2. Admins and moderators ... censor ... as they see fit, without having to explain.
> 3. Users simply adhere to the rules or GTFO.
> 5. Rules [are] written in stone and NOT open for discussion.It could also be a forum for people who don't support (permanent) bans. Which, speaking of politics, is like the forum equivalent of deportation.
--
> A link to an external reliable glossary of psych meds would be the simplest thing to do. Such lists are available on many good web sites, and THEY do the maintenance instead of you.
I like that idea. Could you point me to a glossary you consider reliable and well-maintained?
> There are sooooo many psych self-help books and such, that I'm not sure about what might be a useful approach.
>
> Moishe PipikI thought voting was a nice approach. That way the selections reflected the opinions of posters. What if there were a new vote every once in a while?
Bob
Posted by tensor on August 22, 2013, at 5:13:23
In reply to Re: Site makeover, posted by Dr. Bob on August 22, 2013, at 3:06:20
Sounds like you've got it figured out. Good luck whatever you chooses to do.
/tensor
Posted by Moishe Pipik on August 22, 2013, at 9:17:13
In reply to Re: Site makeover, posted by Dr. Bob on August 22, 2013, at 3:06:20
Med info from a "reliable" source:
http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/mental-health-medications/index.shtml
Wikipedia, despite all the criticism, is also a pretty good source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_psychiatric_medications_by_condition_treated
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 23, 2013, at 11:17:35
In reply to Re: Site makeover » Dr. Bob, posted by Moishe Pipik on August 22, 2013, at 9:17:13
> Med info from a "reliable" source:
>
> http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/mental-health-medications/index.shtml
>
> Wikipedia, despite all the criticism, is also a pretty good source:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_psychiatric_medications_by_condition_treatedThanks!
You got me thinking about voting for books, so I thought we could have a vote for these, too:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20130730/msgs/1049548.html
I've counted the above as your vote, but you can change it if you like.
Bob
This is the end of the thread.
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