![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by BayLeaf on November 22, 2008, at 16:37:10
I believe that Babble needs a Anti-Discrimination Policy. We should protect each other. Everyone should feel safe here regardless of their race, color, age, religion, sex, national origin, or sexual orientation (forgive if I forgot anything...I'm steaming mad).
Would Bob allow someone to post this, No one who is not a Christian should post on this thread. How about, Only Whites Allowed?
I think these statement should warrant blocks, not PBC's. They are uncivil, and discriminatory. That's a two-fer.
Bayleaf Bi as a Schwinn
Posted by Lou Pilder on November 22, 2008, at 18:56:58
In reply to Discrimination Policy Request, posted by BayLeaf on November 22, 2008, at 16:37:10
> I believe that Babble needs a Anti-Discrimination Policy. We should protect each other. Everyone should feel safe here regardless of their race, color, age, religion, sex, national origin, or sexual orientation (forgive if I forgot anything...I'm steaming mad).
>
> Would Bob allow someone to post this, No one who is not a Christian should post on this thread. How about, Only Whites Allowed?
>
> I think these statement should warrant blocks, not PBC's. They are uncivil, and discriminatory. That's a two-fer.
>
> Bayleaf Bi as a SchwinnFriends,
It is written here,[... an Anti-Disrimination policy...].
Mr. Hsiung has stated some of his thinking in regards to discrinination. He wrote the following and if you click on the links here and follow the threads that they bring up, there could be more understanding of this situation and how this involves parallel threads. Mr Hsiung posted, [...the question for me hasn't been whether they're discriminatory, but whether if it's more helpful to focus on the past or on the present....](citation afmactn 17).
Along with the above, here are some other links to posts and threads and I am asking that these be considerd in responses here posted.
Here a member adds her perspective as to the issue of a past, for the member writes,[...the side effects of their lack of sanction is not in the past. It is definitely in the present, and I forsee it going into the future...](citation plnvizbl 33).
Here is a link to a post by a member that writes,[...I give Lou Pilder much credit..I feel that there...be some limit as to how old a post can be for it to be..brought to the attention...].
But there are posts that I have asked for redress as they were posted, so thoose are as in my understanding tolling any statute of limitations. (citation sctlu 6)
If you are considering posting in this thread, I am asking that you consider the posts from the links and go through the threads that they bring up and I think that you could have more infomation to use if you post in this thread and parallel threads
Loucitation afmactn 17
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20060826/msgs/686322.htmlcitation plnvizbl 33
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20060826/msgs/686416.htmlcitation sctlu 6
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20060826/msgs/686742.html
Posted by Sigismund on November 24, 2008, at 0:01:36
In reply to Lou's response to aspects-hrborlite » BayLeaf, posted by Lou Pilder on November 22, 2008, at 18:56:58
>I believe that Babble needs a Anti-Discrimination Policy.
Well, I dunno about anti-discrimination policies. You know, maybe?
Why do people prefer to quarrel and fight?
Because we need our demons?
(If so, why?)
> We should protect each other.Oh my goodness, YES.
Posted by Emily Elizabeth on November 25, 2008, at 20:45:12
In reply to Discrimination Policy Request, posted by BayLeaf on November 22, 2008, at 16:37:10
I just wanted to voice my support of your idea. Babble has (and should have) certain values. This is important enough to make a statement about. The ultimate in being civil!
Thanks,
EE
Posted by yxibow on November 26, 2008, at 0:35:34
In reply to Re: Discrimination Policy Request, posted by Emily Elizabeth on November 25, 2008, at 20:45:12
> I just wanted to voice my support of your idea. Babble has (and should have) certain values. This is important enough to make a statement about. The ultimate in being civil!
>
> Thanks,
> EEI agree -- we all may have in private our own religious and we all have differences in cultural, sexual, race, sexual orientation, and many other differences that are codified in law in some states.
There comes a line where religion and politics but up against each other, and unfortunately I've seen this lately.
Its hard to try to be civil about religion and politics when one clashes and offends another.
It can't come to milquetoast stifled postings that don't say anything because nobody wants to offend anyone but there's I guess a sliding scope where people can voice their opinion, and leave it at that, and others can counter their opinion, and leave it at that. I can't see any other fair and civil way -- they always say you can't discuss religion and politics, and while that can go a bit far, there's some truth to that. I liked arguing politics with some people, I'm not always with the same viewpoint but its an intellectual activity.
Religion is hard to argue with, just personally because I'm scientific and sort of agnostic and I find it hard to argue things from the bible (who's bible, but that's another story) because one, I'm not a theological scholar and two if someone is hard bent on an idea from a book that was made some millenia ago by people of the time (I'll leave it at that because I don't want to make this more offensive), I can't find any way to counter it and I just back off.
Religion is there personally in my view to explain the things that can't be explained otherwise to people and comfort them.
Sometimes religions become very conservative and entrenched with the political underpinnings in this world and cross the line of church and state separation which really only exists in some Western nations.
So that's my views on being civil and handling discrimination. People may step on toes sometimes and some people may have strong views on something -- its impossible to be completely civil and its also impossible to discuss things by not discussing them at all.
-- my 2c
-- Jay
Posted by Lou Pilder on November 26, 2008, at 5:35:06
In reply to Lou's response to aspects-hrborlite » BayLeaf, posted by Lou Pilder on November 22, 2008, at 18:56:58
> > I believe that Babble needs a Anti-Discrimination Policy. We should protect each other. Everyone should feel safe here regardless of their race, color, age, religion, sex, national origin, or sexual orientation (forgive if I forgot anything...I'm steaming mad).
> >
> > Would Bob allow someone to post this, No one who is not a Christian should post on this thread. How about, Only Whites Allowed?
> >
> > I think these statement should warrant blocks, not PBC's. They are uncivil, and discriminatory. That's a two-fer.
> >
> > Bayleaf Bi as a Schwinn
>
> Friends,
> It is written here,[... an Anti-Disrimination policy...].
> Mr. Hsiung has stated some of his thinking in regards to discrinination. He wrote the following and if you click on the links here and follow the threads that they bring up, there could be more understanding of this situation and how this involves parallel threads. Mr Hsiung posted, [...the question for me hasn't been whether they're discriminatory, but whether if it's more helpful to focus on the past or on the present....](citation afmactn 17).
> Along with the above, here are some other links to posts and threads and I am asking that these be considerd in responses here posted.
> Here a member adds her perspective as to the issue of a past, for the member writes,[...the side effects of their lack of sanction is not in the past. It is definitely in the present, and I forsee it going into the future...](citation plnvizbl 33).
> Here is a link to a post by a member that writes,[...I give Lou Pilder much credit..I feel that there...be some limit as to how old a post can be for it to be..brought to the attention...].
> But there are posts that I have asked for redress as they were posted, so thoose are as in my understanding tolling any statute of limitations. (citation sctlu 6)
> If you are considering posting in this thread, I am asking that you consider the posts from the links and go through the threads that they bring up and I think that you could have more infomation to use if you post in this thread and parallel threads
> Lou
>
> citation afmactn 17
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20060826/msgs/686322.html
>
> citation plnvizbl 33
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20060826/msgs/686416.html
>
> citation sctlu 6
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20060826/msgs/686742.htmlFriends,
Here is a link that I would like for those interested in responding here to read and take into consideration if they are going to post in this thread. If you could, then I think that you could have a better undertsnading of the issues involved here.
Lou
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20070123/msgs/732314.html
Posted by BayLeaf on November 26, 2008, at 20:14:27
In reply to Re: Discrimination Policy Request » Emily Elizabeth, posted by yxibow on November 26, 2008, at 0:35:34
Thank you Lou, and Sig, and EE, and Pat, and Toph, and everyone I may have spaced out on.
If you have never been a part of "a minority", it is so easy to ignore, forget, or look away when people are tread upon. It is particularly important to me when people who are NOT a part of my minority stand up for me, and mine, and become a part of my life. I REALLY appreciate you not looking away. There have been times in our history when this has saved lives. Thank you!
Bay
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 3, 2008, at 23:30:05
In reply to Re: Discrimination Policy Request » Emily Elizabeth, posted by yxibow on November 26, 2008, at 0:35:34
Hi, everyone,
We already have an anti-discrimination policy: our civility policy!
We may quarrel and fight in part because we need validation?
I agree, it can be hard to be civil about religion and politics. And in general to be open to points of view different from our own. But both can be rewarding, too, and something I really like about Babble is the diversity of Babblers.
Bob
--
> I believe that Babble needs a Anti-Discrimination Policy. We should protect each other. Everyone should feel safe here regardless of their race, color, age, religion, sex, national origin, or sexual orientation (forgive if I forgot anything...I'm steaming mad).
>
> Bayleaf> Why do people prefer to quarrel and fight?
> Because we need our demons?
>
> Sigismund> I just wanted to voice my support of your idea. Babble has (and should have) certain values. This is important enough to make a statement about. The ultimate in being civil!
>
> EE> Its hard to try to be civil about religion and politics when one clashes and offends another.
>
> It can't come to milquetoast stifled postings that don't say anything because nobody wants to offend anyone but there's I guess a sliding scope where people can voice their opinion, and leave it at that, and others can counter their opinion, and leave it at that. I can't see any other fair and civil way -- they always say you can't discuss religion and politics, and while that can go a bit far, there's some truth to that.
>
> People may step on toes sometimes and some people may have strong views on something -- its impossible to be completely civil and its also impossible to discuss things by not discussing them at all.
>
> Jay
Posted by BayLeaf on December 4, 2008, at 19:01:54
In reply to Re: Discrimination Policy Request, posted by Dr. Bob on December 3, 2008, at 23:30:05
No Bob. What you have is a vague civility policy which is totally subjective to interpretation. The policy I am requesting would be a clear foundation upon which you could build.
The basic rights and values would be defined. Right now, nothing is clear.
For example - Is it civil to say that I only want heterosexuals to reply to my post? That's unclear currently. If you had a discrimination policy, the situation would be clearly defined as inappropriate here.
And I don't need my lifestyle validated by you. But what we DO need is people in positions like you to demonstrate by your ACTION that you are against discrimination in all it's forms. Inaction just perpetuates the problem.
Bay
> Hi, everyone,
>
> We already have an anti-discrimination policy: our civility policy!
>
> We may quarrel and fight in part because we need validation?
>
> I agree, it can be hard to be civil about religion and politics. And in general to be open to points of view different from our own. But both can be rewarding, too, and something I really like about Babble is the diversity of Babblers.
>
> Bob
>
Posted by Toph on December 5, 2008, at 11:12:49
In reply to Re: Discrimination Policy Request » Dr. Bob, posted by BayLeaf on December 4, 2008, at 19:01:54
I agree with Bay that it would not be redundant to add descimination to the specifics that Bob gives in his definition of civil conduct on Babble:
"Please don't be sarcastic, treat injury or death lightly, suggest that others harm (or use this site to exchange information that could be used to harm) themselves or others, jump to conclusions about others, post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down, harass or pressure others, use language that could offend others, disclose without permission information (including previous posting names) that identifies or private communications from another poster, post information that you know to be false, exaggerate or overgeneralize -- etc."
He need simply add, "Psycho-Babble intends on being an inclusive community - please do not descriminate against another member on the basis of race, religion, age, gender, politics, sexual orientation, class or other catagory."
If you felt the need Bob to be specific about other forms of non-civil conduct then you should be clear about descrimination as non-civil as well.
Posted by muffled on December 5, 2008, at 12:03:41
In reply to Re: Discrimination Policy Request » BayLeaf, posted by Toph on December 5, 2008, at 11:12:49
Posted by Toph on December 5, 2008, at 13:15:14
In reply to Cool, good idea, well said guys. (nm) » Toph, posted by muffled on December 5, 2008, at 12:03:41
Posted by yxibow on December 5, 2008, at 21:40:29
In reply to Re: Discrimination Policy Request » BayLeaf, posted by Toph on December 5, 2008, at 11:12:49
> I agree with Bay that it would not be redundant to add descimination to the specifics that Bob gives in his definition of civil conduct on Babble:
>
> "Please don't be sarcastic, treat injury or death lightly, suggest that others harm (or use this site to exchange information that could be used to harm) themselves or others, jump to conclusions about others, post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down, harass or pressure others, use language that could offend others, disclose without permission information (including previous posting names) that identifies or private communications from another poster, post information that you know to be false, exaggerate or overgeneralize -- etc."
>
> He need simply add, "Psycho-Babble intends on being an inclusive community - please do not descriminate against another member on the basis of race, religion, age, gender, politics, sexual orientation, class or other catagory."
>
> If you felt the need Bob to be specific about other forms of non-civil conduct then you should be clear about descrimination as non-civil as well.
(Firefox has its own spell checker), btw.
I was rethinking this after reading this post because I guess I never deeply read the civil conduct policy though I know it vaguely. I think the latter paragraph makes more sense than the whole suggestive strings of et-ceteras that the civil policy has.
There's a saying that you can't please everyone all the time. To speak so softly and carry a twig, is so stifling at times that I have to be so over-careful at times about certain things I say that they cease to have any meaning at all.
Which is a side tangent, because I know I can take things very literally at times in therapy, sort of part of being a bit too hard on myself, but its more of a story than needed here, its just an opposing example to what I was saying.
Gaffes are much more likely to occur in the politics and faith boards than on the neurotransmitters or other ones just because, at least in the US (side tangent, there is quite a link among things).
On the other hand, yes, I would like my sexual orientation not to be a target in discussion -- I must admit even I've made gaffes in that area but I try hard not to.
When does a gaffe become an "actionable violation" on the board I don't know. But then again I suppose that comes from my opinion in general that it would be preferable to be able to update a post like most other Web based forums use than to be "reprimanded" instantly. Nobody has time to instantly remember that they made a mistake.
Its why I left the board a while ago because I didn't apologize or correct an post with a repost to something in enough hours, literally. I mean, there are other things outside of Babble that I try to devote my time to, like, and this is going to sound offensive, my life and developing it.
It felt more than a slap on the wrist and if I was being slapped, I didn't feel like I was really needed to help or convey feelings here and it became more of a worry than a comfort to be here.
Babble is one important piece for me to convey information and feel like I can help people, but I also have to help myself, which is sometimes harder.Anyhow, to be droll, I'm Babbling away now.
-- tidings
Jay
Posted by Toph on December 6, 2008, at 13:59:55
In reply to Re: Discrimination Policy Request » Toph, posted by yxibow on December 5, 2008, at 21:40:29
..the whole suggestive strings of et-ceteras that the civil policy has.
>Yeah, I suppose that rather than attempting to itemize all the possible non-civil infractions it might be better to just emphasize the opposite with the simple edict... be nice.
Posted by BayLeaf on December 6, 2008, at 22:21:42
In reply to Re: Discrimination Policy Request, posted by Toph on December 6, 2008, at 13:59:55
I give. Babble Admin induces some wierd form of learned helplessness in me. I quickly just give up. It's sad really since it's something really important to me.
It's so odd to me that others don't see it the way I do. It's so clear to me. Funny how our minds work so differently.
bay
Posted by Toph on December 7, 2008, at 11:39:00
In reply to Re: Discrimination Policy Request, posted by BayLeaf on December 6, 2008, at 22:21:42
...Funny how our minds work so differently.
>I'm not sure if you are speaking to me or admin posters in general bay, but my mind hasn't worked for years now.
Posted by BayLeaf on December 7, 2008, at 12:51:12
In reply to Re: Discrimination Policy Request, posted by Toph on December 7, 2008, at 11:39:00
It was very general.
What bugs me about my mind is that I can't express what's in it the way others can. Wish I could express my feelings on this topic (or any!) better. It's so clear in my head, but I can't put the words together.
I just want to point and grunt. I'm a Neandertal.
bay
This is the end of the thread.
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