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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 2 to 26 of 164. Go back in thread:
Posted by BayLeaf on November 8, 2008, at 9:17:29
In reply to Research project, posted by Dr. Bob on November 8, 2008, at 2:22:01
Bob - Are they going to fake a disorder, or are they going to be honest? I don't want to offer support to people who are BS'ing us. That's unkind to Babblers who would be concerned and worried about people posting here. That would be upsetting people with mental illness, just for....sport? Call it education - but it's not what we signed up for. The agreement when we signed on said we weren't part of an experiment.
If you can't answer that one question, how could anyone post to any new user?? They could just be actors reading a script, as happens in medical schools..."ok, you pretend you have chest pain".
So, are they being told to be honest, and use Babble as it's intended??
Bay
Posted by wishingstar on November 8, 2008, at 11:51:59
In reply to Research project, posted by Dr. Bob on November 8, 2008, at 2:22:01
For me, and I think many others here, this really will effect the trust and safety I think I'll feel on this site and with posters here. I think you need to take this into consideration as a major extraneous factor that will be affecting your results. I dont know if everyone will respond to these new posters the same way we would typically respond to a new poster or anyone on this board now that this research has been mentioned. As the person above said, if I see a brand new poster, I'm automatically going to be hesitant and feel unsure about really opening myself up to that person, either with my own "stuff" or in response/support to their "stuff", because it may well just be a research subject. While I realize that there research subjects are real people and possibly have emotional issues just as "real" as anyone else on this site, I will wonder about their motivation to be on the site, and whether they plan to hang around or are just here for a specific reason. Where are you drawing these people? Is this freshman psychology students or people drawn from the university counseling center or something else? Is there incentive for them to participate?
I feel very uncomfortable with this. I feel that it will likely decrease emotional safety and consequently posting to some degree at a time where babble already seems to be suffering and people already are feeling a little unsteady.
But perhaps all that is exactly what you're studying. Unfortunately, all of us already here are real people with real emotions mixed into babble and what happened here as well. I have a graduate degree in psychological research myself so I'm quite familiar with how all this works, but I hate to feel that something like this is being sacrificed in the name of research.
Posted by Nadezda on November 8, 2008, at 12:08:01
In reply to Re: Research project, posted by wishingstar on November 8, 2008, at 11:51:59
All I can say now is that this raises so many issues for me, some of which have been mentioned by Bayleaf and wishingstar. I'm really quite taken aback about this -- which seems to have happened without any opportunity for current participants-- without whom, by the way, you have no project, one would think-- to be consulted beforehand. I don't like that this is done as a fait accomplis.
Nadezda
Posted by Justherself54 on November 8, 2008, at 12:41:22
In reply to Research project, posted by Dr. Bob on November 8, 2008, at 2:22:01
How long is this study? I think if we're asked to contribute to medical research, we should at least know what it is. Curiosity may keep some of us around, but I know many will feel unsafe.
Posted by BayLeaf on November 8, 2008, at 12:46:40
In reply to Re: Research project, posted by Nadezda on November 8, 2008, at 12:08:01
I guess it would be easy enough to decide not to participate by not posting during the research period, or only post to people you know.
I suggest boycotting the research project. Of course, this could come with repercussions. Bob could decide to just turn off Babble since he would then lose his research tool.
But, man, he'd sure look like poo in the mental health community if he did that to us.
Bay
Posted by Phillipa on November 8, 2008, at 12:58:53
In reply to Re: Boycott Research project, posted by BayLeaf on November 8, 2008, at 12:46:40
Are they already posting as new posters new names have been on the meds board honest answer please. Thanks Phillipa who is not changing her name what for?
Posted by no_rose_garden on November 8, 2008, at 13:12:34
In reply to Re: Research project » Dr. Bob, posted by BayLeaf on November 8, 2008, at 9:17:29
I will certainly be cautious when I see a new name...sometimes I wonder to myself if ppl on babble are real or if it's just me and one other person doing an experiment on me....or if life is real or just an experiment...like that one movie w/ jim carey. *sigh*
Anyway...200 ppl is a lot. weird
Posted by Deneb on November 8, 2008, at 13:23:10
In reply to Research project, posted by Dr. Bob on November 8, 2008, at 2:22:01
I'm worried about so many new people posting. Will the rest of us be outnumbered and thrown aside?
Will they expect to be supported by us?
I can't support that many people.
I'm a bit selfish.
If they support me that'll be nice though. LOL
Posted by Deneb on November 8, 2008, at 13:39:34
In reply to Re: Research project, posted by Deneb on November 8, 2008, at 13:23:10
I'm scared.
I don't want Babble to change too much.
I'm afraid I will be lost with so many new people.
Posted by Ricker on November 8, 2008, at 14:01:58
In reply to Research project, posted by Dr. Bob on November 8, 2008, at 2:22:01
Look forward to chatting with them, not sure why it's causing soo much concern? Dr. Bob's notice was out of respect for us. These "new" memebers have the right to post, seek support, share experience, and perhaps help "us"!
I get the feeling some have claimed this site as "theirs"?? Well, it's the internet, so unless this site becomes a closed door, hand-picked members only club, I say welcome.
Posted by raisinb on November 8, 2008, at 14:08:47
In reply to Research project, posted by Dr. Bob on November 8, 2008, at 2:22:01
This is bizarre and kind of unsettling. At minimum, I'd appreciate (if you can release that information) how long this project will last so that I can decide whether or not I want to participate during that period.
If you can tell us, I'd also like more information on the purpose of the study and what part PB is to play in it.
Thanks,
raisin
Posted by Kath on November 8, 2008, at 14:37:06
In reply to Research project, posted by Dr. Bob on November 8, 2008, at 2:22:01
> I want to let you know that Psycho-Babble will be part of a new research project soon.~ ~Dear Dr. Bob - thx for letting us know. It would have seemed pretty darned weird for all of a sudden 200-plus Newbies to show up!!!~ ~
> I can't get into the nature of the study now, but I'll be happy to answer questions afterwards.>
~ ~ by 'answer questions afterwards' do you mean after the study is over?? Please at least tell us how long the study is for? That should be a really easy question to answer - just requires a few words. I assume that the 230+ know the length of the study? I hope you will please tell us.~ ~
> I hope you'll be as excited by this opportunity to contribute to medical research as I am. Please accept my thanks for all you do to make Babble the supportive and educational resource it's become.
>
> Bob~ ~ ~ I share the concerns that have been mentioned by others.
I WONdered why you just now put a reply post to my September one on the Newbies board!
:-)Kath
Posted by BayLeaf on November 8, 2008, at 14:37:42
In reply to Re: Research project, posted by Ricker on November 8, 2008, at 14:01:58
If you post solely on the Meds board, I could see how this would not be a big deal to you. Who cares about the privacy of symptoms of your discontinuation of Pristiq vs Effexor? The more public that info is, the better!
However, if you post about on the Psych board about your S* abuse history, etc.....it's completely different.
Sure, we know that anyone can read what we post - but KNOWING that 230 people will be here just for an EXPERIMENT - that makes us truly the lab rats many of us have suspected we've been all along.
I've personally wondered on & off if Bob had the ability to be empathetic towards us at all. Now I know the answer.
Bay
Posted by Kath on November 8, 2008, at 14:49:05
In reply to Re: Research project » Ricker, posted by BayLeaf on November 8, 2008, at 14:37:42
Thanks for bringing people's attention to this.
I certainly don't read the top of the page when I sign in to, for example, Social. I just sign in & immediately scroll down!
thx, Kath
& I agree with your comments regarding personal life info on Psych or Social or various places.
Posted by seldomseen on November 8, 2008, at 14:56:36
In reply to Research project, posted by Dr. Bob on November 8, 2008, at 2:22:01
I'm not too concerned about this.
If my experiences can in any way help someone else, then I'm happy to participate.
At least maybe something good can come of it.
Seldom.
Posted by emme on November 8, 2008, at 15:05:20
In reply to Research project, posted by Dr. Bob on November 8, 2008, at 2:22:01
Hello Bob,
> Participants in this research may be joining our community here. There may be as many as 230 of them, and they may or may not mention that they're in the study. I can't get into the nature of the study now,
Why not? Presumably the 230 or so participants know at least something about the study they are participating in. If Psychobabble is part of the study environment, then I think the members here should have more information. If you prefer not to broadcast the details of your study on the internet, can you make a synopsis available via e-mail upon request?
> research and that the research participants will be here for support and education, not to study the rest of you.
Can I take this to mean that the research participants are being encouraged to use online forums (or maybe just this one) as part of their treatment?
> I hope you'll be as excited by this opportunity to contribute to medical research as I am.
I think more information would help generate more enthusiasm.
emme
Posted by turtle on November 8, 2008, at 15:09:35
In reply to Research project, posted by Dr. Bob on November 8, 2008, at 2:22:01
I think that choosing to just drop this news and saying that you won't explain is a poor choice.
Informed consent means that the subjects will be told the premise of the study. They will just tell us who they are and what the study is about when they get here. But by choosing not to tell us yourself, you are setting up an environment of secrecy/suspicion before they even get here. That's not fair to anyone, and not a great thing to do to a mental health community.
I'm also a little concerned about the influx of that many new people at once changing the dynamics of the board. No matter what community is faced with that prospect, that many new people at once will be difficult to absorb and can cause disruption if not well thought out. (I'm not against newcomers, I'm one myself!) Will they understand Babble before they get here?
When I try to imagine what the purpose might be, I'm not against any of the concepts I come up with. (Seeing if online support enhances therapy? Training new therapists who are in therapy themselves?) What I do object to is not telling us at least as much as the new people themselves will know. Why?
Thanks,
Turtle (Turtles need to be very very safe. We just want to understand.)
Posted by twinleaf on November 8, 2008, at 15:09:51
In reply to Research project, posted by Dr. Bob on November 8, 2008, at 2:22:01
Is it a requirement of your research project with these 230 people that they actively participate in Psychobabble in the same manner as we do-with honesty and good faith- for information, help with decision-making, sharing of our joys and sorrows and support during difficult times?
I feel insulted, used and manipulated that you are turning Psychobabble into a research project in which you expect me to participate fully, but which you "can't get into the nature of". You seem to expect that I will do exactly what you want, without you having to inform me and ask for my informed consent, as is always done in well-planned research projects. I find this extremely disrespectful to all of us who have entrusted so much of ourselves to this forum.
Posted by Ricker on November 8, 2008, at 15:27:39
In reply to Re: Research project » Ricker, posted by BayLeaf on November 8, 2008, at 14:37:42
> I've personally wondered on & off if Bob had the ability to be empathetic towards us at all. Now I know the answer.It's my understanding the board is owned and operated by Dr. Bob.
Therefore, everything we post, personal or otherwise, is a privilege, not a right. Public forums are just that.."public".The site does allow for "private" messageing, yet another curtesy provded by the Board owner.
I don't understand why someone would consider posting confidential information if they.. "personally wondered on & off if Bob had the ability to be empathetic towards us at all".As previously mentioned, I look forward to chatting with "ALL".
Regards, Rick
Posted by wishingstar on November 8, 2008, at 15:43:06
In reply to Re: Research project, posted by Ricker on November 8, 2008, at 15:27:39
Another question -
Will all the new posters be held to the same civility guidelines as are used now? I assume they will be. Are you expecting the deputies to take on the work of monitoring all the civility issues of 200 more active posters than we have now? Especially when new posters typically have more trouble with the guidelines in the beginning, not on purpose but because the rules can be difficult to understand and it does take time to grasp.
Posted by turtle on November 8, 2008, at 16:24:58
In reply to Re: Research project, posted by wishingstar on November 8, 2008, at 15:43:06
> Another question -
>
> Will all the new posters be held to the same civility guidelines as are used now? I assume they will be. Are you expecting the deputies to take on the work of monitoring all the civility issues of 200 more active posters than we have now? Especially when new posters typically have more trouble with the guidelines in the beginning, not on purpose but because the rules can be difficult to understand and it does take time to grasp.Newbies like me! I totally blew it in my post above (still getting the hang of it) but what do I do now that I've hit the Submit button? Sorry, Dr. Bob for saying it was a "poor choice". (I'm horrible at making "you" statements too. I'm a work in progress.) A rephrase would probably focus on encouraging openness instead of making a judgment.
Good point, Wishingstar!
Posted by Zeba on November 8, 2008, at 16:30:26
In reply to Research project, posted by Dr. Bob on November 8, 2008, at 2:22:01
Dr. Bob
My post did not go through. I would like to know who is sponsoring this research project. Is it the University of Chicago? Is it NorthShore University Health Care? Is it just you personally? Wil these 230 participants be MH professionals? Medical student? Psychiatry residents? Patients?You know you must let people know the parameters of the research project or you risk an ethics complaint if not an outright class action lawsuit.
Will you be using old postings from when you used the Universiy of Chicago as part of your email address?
This is preposterous. I am thinking I should be contacting my attorney right now.
Zeba
Posted by Zeba on November 8, 2008, at 16:37:09
In reply to Re: Research project » Dr. Bob, posted by twinleaf on November 8, 2008, at 15:09:51
Twinleaf
It is not just disrespectful; it is unethical. We were always told we were not part of a research project. And, though Dr. Bob says we won't be, neither does he say who these people are and what they will be doing. Posting? looking at old posts? What? If looking at old posts when he used the University of Chicago as part of his email address at the bottom, then I will be rasiing holy hell with the University.
Zeba (used to be Ozland)
Posted by Lou Pilder on November 8, 2008, at 16:47:29
In reply to Re: Research project » Dr. Bob, posted by BayLeaf on November 8, 2008, at 9:17:29
> Bob - Are they going to fake a disorder, or are they going to be honest? I don't want to offer support to people who are BS'ing us. That's unkind to Babblers who would be concerned and worried about people posting here. That would be upsetting people with mental illness, just for....sport? Call it education - but it's not what we signed up for. The agreement when we signed on said we weren't part of an experiment.
>
> If you can't answer that one question, how could anyone post to any new user?? They could just be actors reading a script, as happens in medical schools..."ok, you pretend you have chest pain".
>
> So, are they being told to be honest, and use Babble as it's intended??
>
> BayFriends,
It is written here,[...are they going to fake a disorder or are they going to be honest?...]
Mr. Hsiung has specified that the participants {...will be here for support and education...}
I ask: What in Mr. Hsiung's post, if there something there, could give a foundation for the statement in question?
It is written here,[...people who are XXXing us...]
I ask: Where is there in Mr. Hsiung's post that gives a foundation for anyone XXXing us?
It is written here,[...the agreement..said we wern't part of an experiment...].
Mr Hsiung has specified in his post here that {...Babble will be part of a new reserch project..participants in this research project {...may be >joining our community< here...}and that those participants are here for support and education.
I ask: Is there something in Mr. Hsiung's post here that says that we are part of an experiment? If anyone can point that out to me, I would appreciate it.
It is written here,[...use Babble as intended?...].
Mr. Hsiung has posted that the intention of the participants is not to study members and that the participants will be here for the same purpose as the existing members for support and education.
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on November 8, 2008, at 16:55:48
In reply to Re: Research project, posted by wishingstar on November 8, 2008, at 11:51:59
> For me, and I think many others here, this really will effect the trust and safety I think I'll feel on this site and with posters here. I think you need to take this into consideration as a major extraneous factor that will be affecting your results. I dont know if everyone will respond to these new posters the same way we would typically respond to a new poster or anyone on this board now that this research has been mentioned. As the person above said, if I see a brand new poster, I'm automatically going to be hesitant and feel unsure about really opening myself up to that person, either with my own "stuff" or in response/support to their "stuff", because it may well just be a research subject. While I realize that there research subjects are real people and possibly have emotional issues just as "real" as anyone else on this site, I will wonder about their motivation to be on the site, and whether they plan to hang around or are just here for a specific reason. Where are you drawing these people? Is this freshman psychology students or people drawn from the university counseling center or something else? Is there incentive for them to participate?
>
> I feel very uncomfortable with this. I feel that it will likely decrease emotional safety and consequently posting to some degree at a time where babble already seems to be suffering and people already are feeling a little unsteady.
>
> But perhaps all that is exactly what you're studying. Unfortunately, all of us already here are real people with real emotions mixed into babble and what happened here as well. I have a graduate degree in psychological research myself so I'm quite familiar with how all this works, but I hate to feel that something like this is being sacrificed in the name of research.Friends,
It is written here,[...this will effect the trust and safety...]
I ask: How would the fact that the participants in question are here for the same reasons as the existing members effect the trust and safety? If anyone can respond to my question, I wouldd appreciate it.
Lou
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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