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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 43 to 67 of 108. Go back in thread:
Posted by greywolf on April 23, 2007, at 21:24:30
In reply to Re: What will happen to Babble..., posted by Aunt Virginia on April 23, 2007, at 20:57:53
Wow. I'm at a loss for words after reading this thread. I must be the only one who is completely missing all these supposedly arbitrary, biased, or thoughtless actions by the deputies.
The degree of bitterness and anger being directed at these volunteer administrators seems seriously out of proportion to any real problems.
Whether or not any particular person's contentions have serious merit, I can say without question that the way some people are expressing their dissatisfaction is saddening to me and others. Your points may be well taken with respect to the particularities of your complaints, but they're lost in the hurtful effects of your confrontational tone.
I'd like to see everyone grab a cup of coffee and take 5 minutes to write something nice about Babble, the deputies, or your fellow Babblers. I bet a lot of people would be heartened to hear some good things about this place and the people who devote their time to it.
Greywolf
Posted by Gabbi-2 on April 23, 2007, at 21:35:47
In reply to Re: Deputies, posted by Aunt Virginia on April 23, 2007, at 20:14:32
> Does suggesting that a particular person is ill qualified for a particular task imply that person is not human?
>
Which persons humanity is in question? I do Sometimes I wonder about those people with the compulsion to "suggest" that which is unsolicitated.
Okay.. "suggesting" is often used as a transparent euphemism. I don't think often one actually "suggests someone isn't fit" but b*tches about their every move.A "helpful suggestion" about performance may be recieved when one asks for input. However I don't think suggesting as above is indicating lack of humanness. I'd certainly question where the need to "suggest" this arises though.
In my experience the need to critique is often squarely within the person "suggesting" or an idiosyncratic personal annoyance that demands justification by finding fault in the "annoyee"
Now, concern is another of my favourite euphemisms. In my place of work it was always used as a preface to gossip. "We're just concerned about her" yeah.. right.
Whether or not a role is good for ones health I believe is up to that person to decide.
Not knowing the context of course, I don't know if these things even happened.
I can't say for sure, but I don't understand why these suggestions would be considered helpful, necessary, or really anything but ill-mannered sniping. They were not what I was thinking of in particular when I was speaking of the deputies not being seen as human.> Does suggesting that a person has been recruited to perform a task that might injure that person or others imply the person performing the task is not human?
Posted by zazenducke on April 23, 2007, at 21:47:05
In reply to Re: What will happen to Babble..., posted by greywolf on April 23, 2007, at 21:24:30
> Wow. I'm at a loss for words after reading this thread. I must be the only one who is completely missing all these supposedly arbitrary, biased, or thoughtless actions by the deputies.
I believe many of these posts in this thread have been quite complimentary.
>
> The degree of bitterness and anger being directed at these volunteer administrators seems seriously out of proportion to any real problems.Bitterness and anger are your perceptions and your judements of what others are feeling. don't you think the problems are real to the people who post about them? Would you be upset if others accused the deputies of bitterness and anger?
>
> Whether or not any particular person's contentions have serious merit, I can say without question that the way some people are expressing their dissatisfaction is saddening to me and others. Your points may be well taken with respect to the particularities of your complaints, but they're lost in the hurtful effects of your confrontational tone.Could you explain who in particular you're talking about? I have participated in this thread as have many others. I believe making sweeping negative statements about a group of unspecified individuals is not likely to be helpful. I don't feel supported or educated myself.
>
> I'd like to see everyone grab a cup of coffee and take 5 minutes to write something nice about Babble, the deputies, or your fellow Babblers. I bet a lot of people would be heartened to hear some good things about this place and the people who devote their time to it.I believe much of this thread has been devoted to saying complimentary things to the deputies. But I'm ok with your request.
Babble is kept up very well technically. Lots of people care about each other. There is some tolerance of different view points if presented in Babble-approved style. the deputies devote quite a bit of time to this. OK your turn :)
>
> Greywolf
Posted by zazenducke on April 23, 2007, at 22:00:56
In reply to Re: What will happen to Babble..., posted by Aunt Virginia on April 23, 2007, at 20:57:53
>...unfamiliar with Western colloquialisms that let his deputies violate his rules with impunity by using constant backhanded insults,
...colloquial attack styles familiar to an economic and geographic culture he has never been part of,Well that's an interesting theory but where on earth did you get that information? Admittedly he does seem to miss some things but couldn't he just have Asperger's or be a math major or something?
I don't want to be accusatory are cause you to feel pressured but are you by any chance Bob's ex-wife?
Posted by greywolf on April 23, 2007, at 22:13:24
In reply to Re: What will happen to Babble... » greywolf, posted by zazenducke on April 23, 2007, at 21:47:05
My statement was not "sweeping" in any sense. I expressly limited my reference to "some" posts, not all of them.I believe that bitterness and anger are legitimate and understandable feelings for everyone at many points in life. However, SOME posters in this and other threads in recent days have, in my opinion, directed those feelings at other people participating in Babble. In my view, it matters not whether the person expressing such views is a Babbler or a Babbler deputy--I find it unsettling in either circumstance.
You may legitimately disagree with me or you may not react as strongly as I do to what I perceive as unnecessarily confrontational posts. Perhaps that is why the rules here ask people to be more moderate in their posts than would be expected on other sites.
Posted by Aunt Virginia on April 23, 2007, at 22:27:17
In reply to Re: What will happen to Babble..., posted by greywolf on April 23, 2007, at 21:24:30
> Wow. I'm at a loss for words after reading this thread. I must be the only one who is completely missing all these supposedly arbitrary, biased, or thoughtless actions by the deputies.
Let's break it down again, then. Here, we are told "you're lucky to even get to talk about it at all.">>> I really don't understand how people can believe the things they're saying, when if what they were saying was true, how could the administrative board looks like it does right now?
Maybe you, greywolf, didn't grow up in a disfunctional abusive household and you enjoy the pleasant privilege of not having to recognize common patterns of oppression when you see them. For those of us educated in youth how to deploy these devices, they are as evident as the meaning of any other language. And if you suspect that the conflict that brings us to confront those patterns here extends far beyond this forum, you are absolutely right.That is why you see euphemism so shamelessly turned on those here who use it against us under some color of authority. We consider educating people how and why to confront officious euphemistic put-downs to be very supportive of those who have a chance of achieving some sort of healthy mental condition. Confronting the contagion is not nearly so threatening to those who know the full risk of the disease.
Posted by madeline on April 23, 2007, at 22:30:05
In reply to Re: What will happen to Babble..., posted by greywolf on April 23, 2007, at 21:24:30
I'm afraid that I could not agree with you more.
I just couldn't figure out a way to say it.
Posted by TexasChic on April 23, 2007, at 22:32:01
In reply to Re: What will happen to Babble... » zazenducke, posted by greywolf on April 23, 2007, at 22:13:24
I think everyone should be able to express their opinions, but you have to keep in mind the environment we are in. What we read is by no means the opinion of all who come here. One thing I've found in posting here is there are way more people reading what I write than I ever imagined. Not everyone feels comfortable posting their feelings, no matter how strongly they may feel them. Just because things may seem to be going a certain way according to the posts doesn't mean that's how things actually are. I don't know if I'm explaining what I'm trying to say well or not, but if nothing else, take a step back and consider the vastness of the internet and how easily things can become misconstrued. It wouldn't take many posts to make it seem as if everyone feels a certain way about things.
-T
Posted by Gabbi-2 on April 23, 2007, at 22:38:00
In reply to Re: What will happen to Babble..., posted by Aunt Virginia on April 23, 2007, at 20:57:53
When has Dinah ever implied that her idea of right applies to the whole universe. Was that a dream you had? She's the absolute opposite.
I'm serious.
You're getting involved with an "imaginary" adversary. Criticizing because someone believes something to be true is not based in reason, it's based in the desire to criticize and make up facts as you go along. Providing a factual basis from which to base your criticisms the only way to reason.YOU know as well as I do, that when anyone has their integrity assualted yes even someone with TRUE integrity they will have the desire to defend themselves, implying that it's any more than that, well that is a really tired old form of **** my mom uses it as a last resort frequently.
My mother has no friends.It's been more than rules being questioned here, there have been cruel underhanded cheap assaults on all the deputies, this has little to do with reasonable conscientous objection to the rules.
to that I've Dinah seen being particulary respectful and lenient within her power as deputy, *yes the breaking of the rules by a conscientous objector*
Brio-de Chimp on psychology about 2years ago
And I need to add that I just got TWO P.B.C's one from Dinah yesterday for defending the deputies.
Posted by greywolf on April 23, 2007, at 23:29:25
In reply to Re: What will happen to Babble..., posted by Aunt Virginia on April 23, 2007, at 22:27:17
I am fortunate to have grown up in a household that was not abusive. Unfortunately, that has not allowed me the "pleasant privilege" of living life in ignorance of the many ways people can mistreat each other. That naivete was ripped from me long ago.
Like others, I spend an inordinate amount of my life simply trying to live. I have not succeeded in finding any real degree of happiness within myself, and I think the best I'll ever be able to do is try to avoid causing sadness for others. Unfortunately, I have failed all too often even at that, and I know enough about my own failures to recognize situations that may be hurtful to others.
I can talk about symptoms and meds, but I find it very difficult to discuss how badly I've failed to make something meaningful of my life. If I'm not contributing anything meaningful here, it is simply a reflection of my daily life.
Posted by Racer on April 24, 2007, at 2:04:26
In reply to Re: What will happen to Babble... » Aunt Virginia, posted by greywolf on April 23, 2007, at 23:29:25
> If I'm not contributing anything meaningful here, it is simply a reflection of my daily life.
>
>I just want you to know that I think you contribute a lot to this site. Thank you for your kindness and good sense.
Racer, not posting as a deputy
Posted by zazenducke on April 24, 2007, at 5:28:58
In reply to Re: What will happen to Babble... » tofuemmy, posted by Dinah on April 22, 2007, at 13:22:04
> If you see who is certainly not blocked, and not even pbc'd, how can it be said that we weild hammers on those who disagree with us?
>http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20070304/msgs/751786.html
Is this the post you were referring to?
GabbiGabbi says below she was PBCed for defending deputies.
I thought she meant people who were objecting to the rules were wielding the hammers.
I hope you feel better and we can return to administrative issues soon.
Posted by zazenducke on April 24, 2007, at 5:52:50
In reply to Re: What will happen to Babble... » Aunt Virginia, posted by Gabbi-2 on April 23, 2007, at 22:38:00
> You're getting involved with an "imaginary" adversary. Criticizing because someone believes something to be true is not based in reason, it's based in the desire to criticize and make up facts as you go along. Providing a factual basis from which to base your criticisms the only way to reason.
>
> YOU know as well as I do, that when anyone has their integrity assualted yes even someone with TRUE integrity they will have the desire to defend themselves, implying that it's any more than that, well that is a really tired old form of **** my mom uses it as a last resort frequently.
> My mother has no friends.
>So the poster reminds you of your mom?
hmmmmmmmm
That was interesting.
I feel bad when people have no friends.
I extend the hand of friendship to GabbiGabbi's mom and Aunt Virginia.
This does not mean I agree with you. But I will try to treat you with respect and civility.
Your friend
Zazenduck
Posted by zazenducke on April 24, 2007, at 5:56:12
In reply to Imaginary adversaries + An offer of friendship » Gabbi-2, posted by zazenducke on April 24, 2007, at 5:52:50
Posted by zazenducke on April 24, 2007, at 7:31:43
In reply to Dinah's mom too. Let's do lunch. (nm) » zazenducke, posted by zazenducke on April 24, 2007, at 5:56:12
And order extra fries we may
(then to a bar to drink our cares away)
We shan't be gone long
You come too
...........................3 consecutive post rule exception because of 2 personal replies + demands of ART + desire for inclusiveness
Posted by greywolf on April 24, 2007, at 9:14:44
In reply to Re: What will happen to Babble... » greywolf, posted by Racer on April 24, 2007, at 2:04:26
Posted by sunnydays on April 24, 2007, at 9:43:29
In reply to Re: What will happen to Babble..., posted by Aunt Virginia on April 23, 2007, at 22:27:17
> Maybe you, greywolf, didn't grow up in a disfunctional abusive household and you enjoy the pleasant privilege of not having to recognize common patterns of oppression when you see them. For those of us educated in youth how to deploy these devices, they are as evident as the meaning of any other language.
**** Just so you know, I grew up in an extremely dysfunctional household, although that shouldn't matter in my opinions. I can recognize quite well when something someone is saying is not right or fair. I think that Babble is dedicated to fairness, albeit somewhat misguided at times. I think the deputies just enforce the rules Bob has made, and while there is always an element of subjectivity to enforcing rules, they do a darn good job!
sunnydays
Posted by Gabbi-2 on April 24, 2007, at 11:39:57
In reply to We're going to McDs for Happy Meals, posted by zazenducke on April 24, 2007, at 7:31:43
you made me laugh. I should have just let Greywolf do the talking, I should not post while my brain is spinning like a top for reasons that have nothing to do with babbble.
Sort of like the P.W.D reason except there are too many letters to make an abbreviation.I usually feel bad for those with no friends too, but sometimes when they are my mom...it's hard.
Do we HAVE TO go to Mcdonalds?
Posted by Racer on April 24, 2007, at 14:53:48
In reply to Re: We're going to McDs for Happy Meals » zazenducke, posted by Gabbi-2 on April 24, 2007, at 11:39:57
> you made me laugh. I should have just let Greywolf do the talking, I should not post while my brain is spinning like a top for reasons that have nothing to do with babbble.
>
>
> Sort of like the P.W.D reason except there are too many letters to make an abbreviation.I don't know, I kinda like unreasonably long acronyms... I'm in favor of the No PWMYISLATFRTHNTDWB rule. I say go for it!
>
> Do we HAVE TO go to Mcdonalds?
>Good point. How about we head for Taco Bell instead?
Posted by Gabbi-2 on April 24, 2007, at 15:17:37
In reply to Re: We're going to McDs for Happy Meals » Gabbi-2, posted by Racer on April 24, 2007, at 14:53:48
I really laughed out loud at that.
And you know I'm going to use it now, watch me, I really will.. because good intentions aside, *sigh* undoubtedly it will happen again.
Posted by Quintal on April 24, 2007, at 15:37:34
In reply to We're going to McDs for Happy Meals, posted by zazenducke on April 24, 2007, at 7:31:43
............for offering the olive branch.
Q
Posted by Racer on April 24, 2007, at 16:06:22
In reply to Re: What will happen to Babble..., posted by Aunt Virginia on April 23, 2007, at 20:57:53
>
> If you expressed some understanding of the other person's views, they might be more willing to entertain yours.
>
>
> What seems important to you is doing what you believe is right, and presuming that your sense of right and wrong applies to the entire universe. Others hold vastly different values.
>
> You act when you perceive things to be such. Your action does not make them such. You do seem eager to represent yourself to others as an infallible justice.
>
>
> Who is Dinah hurting? Could Dinah stop hurting if she decided to? Would Dinah not hurt if she didn't insist that her preferred self-image govern all other's perceptions of her?
>
>
>Please don't post anything here which could lead others to feel accused or put down.
More information regarding what is and isn't allowed here can be found in the FAQ, at http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Any follow ups to this should themselves be civil, and Dr Bob may choose to adjust this deputy action.
Racer, acting as deputy
Posted by Quintal on April 24, 2007, at 16:26:31
In reply to Please be civil » Aunt Virginia, posted by Racer on April 24, 2007, at 16:06:22
If you're thinking of replying to that please take time out to step away from the computer and think carefully about how you word your post. I'm sure you know the next penalty for further incivility is a week long block, and personally I'd like to hear more of your views expressed as eloquently and civilly as I know you can.
Q
P.S. ((((Aunt Virginia))) I'm sorry to hear you grew up in an abusive household - I know what that feels like.
Posted by Declan on April 24, 2007, at 21:45:41
In reply to Re: What will happen to Babble..., posted by Aunt Virginia on April 23, 2007, at 20:57:53
>Would Dinah not hurt if she didn't insist that her preferred self-image govern all other's perceptions of her?
Could this not be said of most (if not all) of us?
Posted by Phillipa on April 24, 2007, at 23:03:05
In reply to Re: Well » Phillipa, posted by NikkiT2 on April 23, 2007, at 12:52:03
Sure Nikki I can post it but I know nothing. Love Phillipa ps not posting on this subject again
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