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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 226 to 250 of 275. Go back in thread:
Posted by muffled on June 12, 2006, at 22:37:34
In reply to Re: getting blocked, posted by Dr. Bob on June 12, 2006, at 22:19:23
***Thx for your reply. You still have the power to hurt me. Just not phyically. I don't mind physical pain so much.
I'm glad that a lot of people are supporting her, that's what this site's about, but I think the guidelines are important, too.
***I don't think we are arguing about that guidlines are important. We arguing bout excessive rigidity.
That even though many in the community feel strongly bout something, YOU (omnipotent one) won't change it.The deputies could (in a way) be appealed to...
***Whaddya mean????????????? Are you just sending us on a false mission to take the heat of youself?
Manoman, you shouldn't have been a p-doc, you shoulda been a polititian!
Muffled
Posted by Jakeman on June 12, 2006, at 23:04:24
In reply to Dr. Bob? 3rd request. Re: blocked for 4 weeks, posted by Jakeman on June 4, 2006, at 1:05:55
> Are you willing to reconsider this block?
>
> Respectfully, Jake
>I'm glad that a lot of people are supporting >her, that's what this site's about, but I think >the guidelines are important, too.Bob, I'm a little confused by your answer. Does that mean NO to my question? I'm tend to see things simply and have a need for clear communication.
warm regards, Jake
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 13, 2006, at 17:17:34
In reply to Re: getting blocked » Dr. Bob, posted by muffled on June 12, 2006, at 22:37:34
> Thx for your reply. You still have the power to hurt me. Just not phyically.
OK. But I think if we're both careful, that won't actually happen.
> I don't think we are arguing about that guidlines are important. We arguing bout excessive rigidity.
> That even though many in the community feel strongly bout something, YOU (omnipotent one) won't change it.Well, it's kind of moot now, anyway, since she's been blocked again, right?
Bob
Posted by zazenduck on June 13, 2006, at 19:00:25
In reply to Re: the power to hurt, posted by Dr. Bob on June 13, 2006, at 17:17:34
>
>
>
> > I don't think we are arguing about that guidlines are important. We arguing bout excessive rigidity.
> > That even though many in the community feel strongly bout something, YOU (omnipotent one) won't change it.
>
> Well, it's kind of moot now, anyway, since she's been blocked again, right?
>
Wrong.Much of this thread is about changing the blocking POLICY and drastically reducing block lengths.
Posted by curtm on June 13, 2006, at 22:14:16
In reply to Re: the power to hurt, posted by Dr. Bob on June 13, 2006, at 17:17:34
Imagine we all had the power to block you, Dr. Bob. Then imagine we all did. Give me the power to do it. I will do it. I did it, in my world, BOB.
Posted by muffled on June 13, 2006, at 22:32:35
In reply to Re: the power to hurt, posted by Dr. Bob on June 13, 2006, at 17:17:34
> OK. But I think if we're both careful, that won't actually happen.
***they say that bout pregnancy too ;-)
>
> > I don't think we are arguing about that guidlines are important. We arguing bout excessive rigidity.
> > That even though many in the community feel strongly bout something, YOU (omnipotent one) won't change it.
>
> Well, it's kind of moot now, anyway, since she's been blocked again, right?***Aaaaaaaaaaggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
I am talking in the GENERAL sense. Its happened b4. And ALOT of the reason this person was re-blocked was cuz she was angry at the previous block........which to me, and ALOT of others, was questionable.
So its not moot. Its an ongoing problem that has happened b4 and will happen again unless you can get a grip on wha we are TRYING to tell you.
Anyhow, at least you seem to be making some attempt to communicate in your one-liner way....
But really, I don't think your getting what we are trying to say.....
Do YOU think you are?
Can you reflect to me what I have been trying to say, what YOU hear?Muffled
Posted by Jakeman on June 13, 2006, at 23:37:46
In reply to Re: the power to hurt, posted by Dr. Bob on June 13, 2006, at 17:17:34
> Re: blocked for 4 weeks, posted by Jakeman on June 4, 2006, at 1:05:55
> Are you willing to reconsider this block? (Estella)
>
> Respectfully, JakeHi Bob, this thread has had much discussion so I thought I would repost my original question (again) in case it had been overlooked. I apologize if you answered and I missed it. Thanks!
warm regards, Jake
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 14, 2006, at 9:40:02
In reply to Dr. Bob? 5th request. Re: blocked for 4 weeks, » Dr. Bob, posted by Jakeman on June 13, 2006, at 23:37:46
> > I think if we're both careful, that won't actually happen.
>
> they say that bout pregnancy too ;-):-)
> But really, I don't think your getting what we are trying to say.....
> Do YOU think you are?
> Can you reflect to me what I have been trying to say, what YOU hear?
>
> MuffledWhat I hear is that posters feel (1) hurt and angry when their friends are hurt (for example, by being blocked) and (2) powerless when I insist on doing something they're opposed to. Is that close?
--
> Are you willing to reconsider this block?
>
> JakeYes, but my mind hasn't been changed yet. And I think it's kind of moot now.
Bob
Posted by curtm on June 14, 2006, at 10:26:36
In reply to Re: the power to hurt, posted by Dr. Bob on June 14, 2006, at 9:40:02
> What I hear is that posters feel (1) hurt and angry when their friends are hurt
Whaaat?! I hope you are freakin kidding me. It's not about that, dude. I'll s-p-e-l-l it out for ya.
It is about 1) the fact that WE don't find the original content lacking civility, and 2) the judgement/punishment for civlity violations is inconsistent.
What I hear is that you just don't get it.
Posted by gardenergirl on June 14, 2006, at 13:47:36
In reply to Re: the power to hurt, posted by Dr. Bob on June 14, 2006, at 9:40:02
> >
> What I hear is that posters feel (1) hurt and angry when their friends are hurt (for example, by being blocked) and (2) powerless when I insist on doing something they're opposed to. Is that close?Thanks for responding to muffled's request for reflecting. I think you've got some of it, but I wanted to add my tweaks, box of salt included.
1) I don't think it's just about when a friend is blocked. I think it can be about any block regardless of whether the person is a friend or not.
2) I think powerless is correct. But also perhaps devalued, because I believe that many do not feel as if their questions are adequately addressed in your replies.And I would add 3) Many are not happy with the blocking policy in general. My interpretation of many recent posts is that they are not so much about estella's block in particular, but about wanting to talk about their feelings about the policy and its implementation in general. Estella's recent block, as many blocks do, stimulated these feelings coming out again.
Muffled or others, please feel free to tweak my reflecting here, as I may be missing something or not presenting it just right.
Questions for Dr. Bob:
-Are even you willing to give serious and thoughtful consideration to making more changes to the blocking policy? Because if you are not, then that would be a very useful piece of information for those who are trying so hard to be heard.
-If you are not willing to make any changes at this time, would you consider spelling out in some detail the purposes, intents, and goals of the blocking policy in enough detail so that Babblers can better understand what the policy is there for?
-If you are willing to consider making changes, how would you like to get posters' input and to discuss changes? Some ideas: we could continue to post to a thread, and perhaps someone could periodically summarize ideas so that none get lost and the conversation has some structure to it. (This might help you in replying if info is summarized into one post now and then. Or, we could put together a "task force" or committee who can formulate ideas and proposals, put out those agreed upon to the group for comment, etc. Or the deputies and you can discuss it, although we have in the past without much consensus.
Any other ideas?
gg
Posted by muffled on June 14, 2006, at 15:08:58
In reply to Re: the power to hurt, posted by Dr. Bob on June 14, 2006, at 9:40:02
> What I hear is that posters feel (1) hurt and angry when their friends are hurt (for example, by being blocked) and (2) powerless when I insist on doing something they're opposed to. Is that close?***Well.... not really. Hey this reflecting stuff is cool. Its not just about FEELINGS. Feelings are merely signals that something else is going on (ha, my T would be dancing if she could read that!). Go beyond them and see what we are getting at. WHY the feelings come up.
Think on that one, and GG posted a good post.
Thanks.
Y'know for a p-doc you sure are missing the boat. mebbe you should come talk to me Bob. I'll straighten you out. HA!
> > Are you willing to reconsider this block?
> >
> > Jake
>
> Yes, but my mind hasn't been changed yet. And I think it's kind of moot now.
>
> Bob***IT IS NOT MOOT. You could lift it now. You could say sorry, maybe I shouldn't have been so stuck on rules. You could say I AM REALY open to change, or NOT as the case may be)
I wish I could understand you better... :-(
It don't SEEM like you so bad....
But I just dunno....
Muffled
Posted by AuntieMel on June 14, 2006, at 16:54:44
In reply to What folks have been saying/ideas for using info » Dr. Bob, posted by gardenergirl on June 14, 2006, at 13:47:36
Well, I think another thing about Estella's block is that she tried to rephrase. But she ended up saying the same thing, with lot's more explanation.
And she also said she wasn't wanting to put anyone down, and that it was only her opinion.
It just doesn't seem fair to block someone who is trying.
Posted by Jakeman on June 14, 2006, at 19:55:26
In reply to Re: the power to hurt, posted by Dr. Bob on June 14, 2006, at 9:40:02
>
> Yes, but my mind hasn't been changed yet. And I think it's kind of moot now.
>
> BobPretty much sounds like a NO. I guess, I'm not sure. And what makes it moot?
warm regards, Jake
Posted by henrietta on June 14, 2006, at 20:08:52
In reply to What folks have been saying/ideas for using info » Dr. Bob, posted by gardenergirl on June 14, 2006, at 13:47:36
Consistency, lack of bias, attention. These are some of the qualities gravely lacking, and frequently and passionately requested. Do it right or don't do it bobster..
Posted by henrietta on June 14, 2006, at 20:17:04
In reply to Re: What folks have been saying/ideas for using info, posted by henrietta on June 14, 2006, at 20:08:52
RESPECT. I think it boils down to that, bob. You demonstrate a marked lack of respect. Inexcusable.
Posted by Tamar on June 15, 2006, at 5:45:06
In reply to Re: truly massive thread, posted by Dr. Bob on June 12, 2006, at 4:56:10
> I think that's a better way of putting it, I have power and you're vulnerable. Which I know can be scary.
>
> BobI don't know about others, but it's only scary to me when power appears to be exercised capriciously.
Posted by Jakeman on June 17, 2006, at 1:30:23
In reply to Re: the power to hurt » Dr. Bob, posted by muffled on June 14, 2006, at 15:08:58
Dr. Bob, would you reconsider this block on Estella? Again, why is it moot?
warm regards, Jake
> > What I hear is that posters feel (1) hurt and angry when their friends are hurt (for example, by being blocked) and (2) powerless when I insist on doing something they're opposed to. Is that close?
>
> ***Well.... not really. Hey this reflecting stuff is cool. Its not just about FEELINGS. Feelings are merely signals that something else is going on (ha, my T would be dancing if she could read that!). Go beyond them and see what we are getting at. WHY the feelings come up.
> Think on that one, and GG posted a good post.
> Thanks.
> Y'know for a p-doc you sure are missing the boat. mebbe you should come talk to me Bob. I'll straighten you out. HA!
>
> > > Are you willing to reconsider this block?
> > >
> > > Jake
> >
> > Yes, but my mind hasn't been changed yet. And I think it's kind of moot now.
> >
> > Bob
>
> ***IT IS NOT MOOT. You could lift it now. You could say sorry, maybe I shouldn't have been so stuck on rules. You could say I AM REALY open to change, or NOT as the case may be)
> I wish I could understand you better... :-(
> It don't SEEM like you so bad....
> But I just dunno....
> Muffled
>
>
Posted by curtm on June 17, 2006, at 17:07:55
In reply to 6th request for a determination, Dr. Bob » muffled, posted by Jakeman on June 17, 2006, at 1:30:23
Jakeman-
I think what Dr. Bob is trying to say is "what WE think is moot." (We being an obvious majority of opinion.)
That being said in itself is moot too, now isn't it?
Posted by Dinah on June 17, 2006, at 17:47:07
In reply to 6th request for a determination, Dr. Bob » muffled, posted by Jakeman on June 17, 2006, at 1:30:23
Didn't he say he reconsidered based on the information presented, but wasn't convinced that it was the right thing to reverse it?
I think that means, yes I reconsidered, but in the absence of additional information, the reconsidered answer is no.
So I think if you want him to reconsider again, you'd have to come up with new arguments, or restate the old ones in a way he finds more convincing.
I'm not commenting as myself here. I'm just trying to interpret Bob-ese.
Posted by Jakeman on June 18, 2006, at 13:13:35
In reply to Re: 6th request for a determination, Dr. Bob » Jakeman, posted by Dinah on June 17, 2006, at 17:47:07
> Didn't he say he reconsidered based on the information presented, but wasn't convinced that it was the right thing to reverse it?
>
> I think that means, yes I reconsidered, but in the absence of additional information, the reconsidered answer is no.
>
> So I think if you want him to reconsider again, you'd have to come up with new arguments, or restate the old ones in a way he finds more convincing.
>
> I'm not commenting as myself here. I'm just trying to interpret Bob-ese.He said his mind hasn't been changed yet and that it's mostly a moot point. I'm not sure what that means. I suspect there's some pride involved. But what do I know.
Thanks for your interpretation.
Jake
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 20, 2006, at 22:26:19
In reply to 6th request for a determination, Dr. Bob » muffled, posted by Jakeman on June 17, 2006, at 1:30:23
> I wanted to add my tweaks, box of salt included.
>
> 1) I don't think it's just about when a friend is blocked. I think it can be about any block regardless of whether the person is a friend or not.
> 2) I think powerless is correct. But also perhaps devalued, because I believe that many do not feel as if their questions are adequately addressed in your replies.Thanks for the tweaks. Any suggestions on how to address questions better?
> And I would add 3) Many are not happy with the blocking policy in general.
Sure, but I see that as related to 1) and 2)...
> -Are even you willing to give serious and thoughtful consideration to making more changes to the blocking policy?
Of course!
> -If you are not willing to make any changes at this time, would you consider spelling out in some detail the purposes, intents, and goals of the blocking policy in enough detail so that Babblers can better understand what the policy is there for?
The goal is to have it be supportive here. What kinds of details would people like?
> -If you are willing to consider making changes, how would you like to get posters' input and to discuss changes? Some ideas: we could continue to post to a thread, and perhaps someone could periodically summarize ideas so that none get lost and the conversation has some structure to it. (This might help you in replying if info is summarized into one post now and then. Or, we could put together a "task force" or committee who can formulate ideas and proposals, put out those agreed upon to the group for comment, etc. Or the deputies and you can discuss it, although we have in the past without much consensus.
>
> ggAny of those would be fine. :-)
Maybe a related issue is that of a more democratic structure?
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20041109/msgs/425076.html
I think one's evolving, but change is slow...
--
> Dr. Bob, would you reconsider this block on Estella? Again, why is it moot?
>
> JakeRegarding reconsidering, see Dinah's excellent translation:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20060525/msgs/658093.html
I think it's kind of moot because she was blocked again:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20060525/msgs/654732.html
after the block being discussed:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/poli/20060417/msgs/646629.html
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 20, 2006, at 22:26:37
In reply to How naive » Dr. Bob, posted by curtm on June 14, 2006, at 10:26:36
> How naïve
Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down.
But please don't take this personally, either, this doesn't mean I don't like you or think you're a bad person.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please first see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforceFollow-ups regarding these issues, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Jakeman on June 20, 2006, at 22:47:56
In reply to Re: please be civil » curtm, posted by Dr. Bob on June 20, 2006, at 22:26:37
>It is about 1) the fact that WE don't find the original content lacking civility, and 2) the >judgement/punishment for civlity violations is inconsistent.
>What I hear is that you just don't get it.
I see a communication problem here. Dr. Bob I don't think you ever addressed the reasons why the numerous objections to this block have no merit. The FAQ? What part?
warm regards, Jake
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 20, 2006, at 22:49:18
In reply to Re: What folks have been saying, posted by Dr. Bob on June 20, 2006, at 22:26:19
> Maybe a related issue is that of a more democratic structure?
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20041109/msgs/425076.html
>
> I think one's evolving, but change is slow...So long as you retain veto, there is no democracy, Bob. It seems half the folk just simply wait on you to pronounce judgment, and then try to figure out what the heck you were thinking.
It can't evolve until you say it can. Please do not speak in riddles.
Lar
Posted by curtm on June 20, 2006, at 22:54:36
In reply to Re: What folks have been saying » Dr. Bob, posted by Larry Hoover on June 20, 2006, at 22:49:18
Maybe a related issue is that of a more democratic structure?
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20041109/msgs/425076.html
I think one's evolving, but change is slow...
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