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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 203 to 227 of 275. Go back in thread:
Posted by zazenduck on June 11, 2006, at 16:31:57
In reply to please be kind to each other, posted by agent858 on June 4, 2006, at 23:11:32
I think you need to address the problem of excessive block lengths. It's not really about continuing this argument case by case indefinitely until the person blocked comes back or chooses not to come back after the block is up. I think it would be useful to allow all blockees back to discuss this. Even if you limit them to posting on admin until the questionof reforming the guidelines is settled.
(I know how much my opinion counts with you :)
>
> He is idiosyncratic. Some of his decisions are unfair. Some people not even being warned while another person is blocked for one year FOR EXACTLY THE SAME THING. That is not fair. A certain degree of unfairness is inherent because he is not perfect he is a human being.
>
> My bone of contention is that GIVEN THAT A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF UNFAIRNESS IS ALWAYS GOING TO BE PRESENT MEASURES NEED TO BE TAKEN TO REDUCE THE DETRIMENTAL CONSEQUENCES OF THAT. What does that mean? That means reduced sentences for blockings ESPECIALLY when there are infractions OF THE SAME KIND that have gone unremarked. If we see something we want to make sure he sees, then we can email him a link or post something to admin. If nobody notices when x says ‘sh*t’ while y gets blocked for saying ‘sh*t’ then IMO the appropriate response is ‘sorry that there was an unfairness here’ and the block should max at one or two weeks. It is still an unfairness. It is still an injustice. But it is about minimising the negative impact of the injustice.
>
Posted by zazenduck on June 11, 2006, at 16:47:46
In reply to Posting while blocked » Larry Hoover, posted by Dinah on June 5, 2006, at 11:29:42
But the problem as I suspect you are aware is that Bob can't really tell when the poster is blocked if he is using Earthlink or AOL or other big providers because they have thousands of ISP numbers and the users get a different one each time they go online.And a fairly large percentage of a board this big may be using the same service. So he's really just guessing ......or someone may notice similiarity in vocabulary and make accusations....but that's just accusing someone and accusations without proof are not in the service of a healthy community. And people can end up being blocked for something they didn't do. Personally I would volunteer to serve time for most of the people given long blocks but it would be nice to volunteer rather than be blocked because of someone else's unsupported suspicions. I think it's less than optimally open and honest to let it be thought that Bob actually KNOWS when someone is posting from the same computer much less is the same person. :)
I think honesty and openness promotes civility.
> I don't see the not posting while blocked rule as preventing civility. It seems perfectly common sense to me.
Posted by zazenduck on June 11, 2006, at 17:16:26
In reply to Suspected of Posting while blocked, posted by zazenduck on June 11, 2006, at 16:47:46
But I could be wrong that's just what I was told.
On wiki all aol people get each others messages by isp number
It's a little unnerving until you realize what is happening
And I wonder if it doesn't happen here. I have no faith in Bob. I don't trust him.
I feel bad for people who get erased
It reminds me of the USSR-the second death when people were erased from photos after their fall from grace/execution etc.
I think it is time for me to leave. I think it would be kind to allow voluntary blocks. This place is SO VERY UNHEALTHY for me.
Posted by Dinah on June 11, 2006, at 17:24:30
In reply to Re: Suspected of Posting while blocked » zazenduck, posted by zazenduck on June 11, 2006, at 17:16:26
I would hate to see you leave. I enjoy having you here, and I enjoy your posts. And I'm sorry you find pain here.
It's been my experience that pain is often a byproduct of human interaction. But perhaps that's due to my nature.
However, many people, myself included, have found a way to block themselves by changing their passwords to a string of unmemorable characters, and then changing their email addresses also to a string of unmemorable characters so that a password reset won't work. At that point, only Dr. Bob can help you unless you reregister with a new name. If you really wish to block yourself, that generally is an effective way to do it.
I always try to pass that on to people who express a wish for a voluntary block. It beats some of the alternatives.
Posted by zazenduck on June 11, 2006, at 17:37:18
In reply to Re: truly massive thread, posted by Dr. Bob on June 10, 2006, at 1:20:55
If civility supposes that," said Mr. Bumble, squeezing his hat emphatically in both hands, "civility is an *ss- an idiot.
>
> I hear you. If I'm omnipotent, then that means you're impotent.
>
> --
>Happy trails Babblistos!!!!!!
Posted by zazenduck on June 11, 2006, at 17:46:19
In reply to Mr Bumble splains to Bob » Dr. Bob, posted by zazenduck on June 11, 2006, at 17:37:18
Block me I am tired of the bullying here.
It's not about how I feel. It's about what I see going on. I see people bullied. I see bullies. I think Bob is a bully.
I think Bob is unfit to be at the centre of what ever it is he is at the centre of!
I think Bob is undeserving of compassion and does not call forth feelings of sympathetic sadness!
Posted by Dinah on June 11, 2006, at 17:48:19
In reply to defeated by the asterisk machine, posted by zazenduck on June 11, 2006, at 17:46:19
Please just use the password reset method of exit, if you must leave?
There is a benefit to leaving the door open, you know.
Not only for you, but for those who care about you.
Posted by teejay on June 11, 2006, at 20:54:28
In reply to Re: truly massive thread, posted by Dr. Bob on June 10, 2006, at 1:20:55
DR Bob,
doubt we will ever see totally eye to eye on some of your issues (although I admire the utopia you try to achive) but thanks for the reply even if it took a truly enormous groundswell of opinion to actually draw you into a reply. ;-)
I do hope you review the politics board though as I genuinely feel hat politics requires a slightly different moderating approach to the other boards PURELY becauses politics as a topic is often at least a bit divisive, and to remove that element of divisiveness destroys the whole idea of politics.
regards from an inebriated, but truly and completely chilled out TJ (wish I could feel this relaxed all the time)
Posted by zazenduck on June 11, 2006, at 21:12:04
In reply to Re: truly massive thread, posted by teejay on June 11, 2006, at 20:54:28
This is the thread that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started posting it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue posting it forever just because...This is the thread that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started posting it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue posting it forever just because...This is the thread that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started posting it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue posting it forever just because
totally uninebriated myself but faking it till I make it
i wanta feel as relaxed as you
>
> regards from an inebriated, but truly and completely chilled out TJ (wish I could feel this relaxed all the time)
Posted by teejay on June 11, 2006, at 21:32:03
In reply to Re: truly massive thread » teejay, posted by zazenduck on June 11, 2006, at 21:12:04
Yo, my friend, not sure what has made me soooo chilled out but think its a combo of sheer bloody mindedness to beat this affliction (I dont joke here) aligned with skullcap ( a couple of caps a day for some weeks) and a few bottles of wine to prevent me from dwelling on that that should not be dwelled upon.
I'll have a relapse at some point, of that you can be sure, but its times such as these that keep me focussed through the bad times.
TJ (who wishes you nothing but the very best of halth)
Posted by Jakeman on June 11, 2006, at 21:38:56
In reply to Re: my logical brain is confused » Dr. Bob, posted by AuntieMel on June 10, 2006, at 10:32:17
Good point. I've come to accept that Dr. Bob has his own issues about being in control here and there's nothing that any of us can do about it.
warm regard, Jake.
> And that is what I sometimes have problems with. Blocks turn into an "I win" instead of allowing adults to come to terms with each other.
Posted by muffled on June 11, 2006, at 21:58:15
In reply to Re: my logical brain is confused, posted by Jakeman on June 11, 2006, at 21:38:56
Bob HAS changed some things.....
But I STILL disaggree with some stuff.
Like Alexs' block,(and others).
The thing that bugs me MOST right now is how Bob doesn't really seem to feel the need to fill us in on why he does what he does. he gives these cryptic one liners worthy of a p-doc all right.
We obvo feel VERY strongly bout some stuff and he just fluffs it off.
I'm just trying to pretend there is NO Bob.
I'm the opposite of Deneb ;-)
I'm tired of this fight.
I'm tired of Bob.
I'm not tired of the wonderful people of babble.
God almighty, I just hope i don't get blocked :-(
Especially at the wrong time :-(
Though theres never a right time.
LEAVE babblmail ON I say.
Its all so awful.
Makes me want to hide too.
Sh*t.
Posted by muffled on June 11, 2006, at 22:12:52
In reply to Re: truly massive thread, posted by teejay on June 11, 2006, at 20:54:28
I hear you. If I'm omnipotent, then that means you're impotent. I'm sorry you're hurting.
***I'm not hurting NOW, just scared you GONNA hurt me you so and so.
And just cuz you omnipotent DOES NOT make me impotent..... though I feel I am walking into a trap even as I say this.......
But the problem IS you DO control my potential access to a support network for me. I'm most likely to get blocked when I am screwed up and NEEDING some help from like minded people.
And if over something trivial, well, that JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.
If you actually DID care bout us (nice thot, sigh), then you would care bout how blocks hurt us and isolate us at the worst times sometimes.
Arrrggggghhhhh,I'm not expressing myself well, I kinda a bit messed right now :-(
I am wasting my breath anyways......
I just an uneducated, mental ill, stupid piece of nothing anyways, my words are sh*t.
Posted by Declan on June 11, 2006, at 22:41:57
In reply to Re: truly massive thread » zazenduck, posted by teejay on June 11, 2006, at 21:32:03
Ah, the best of halth to you TJ, and may you feel so for longer than you expect.
(Skullcap's OK, hey? )
Declan
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 12, 2006, at 4:56:10
In reply to PBC Bob......calling me impotent......, posted by muffled on June 11, 2006, at 22:12:52
> I think, FWIW, you ought to leave the option in place to allow a graceful withdrawal and save insistence for any cases where "Please rephrase" and withdrawals have been used so extensively that you believe insistence on a rephrase to be more appropriate.
>
> DinahThat sounds reasonable to me, do others agree?
--
> > If one person likes the Cubs and another person says they prefer the White Sox, I'd consider that a disagreement. If the first person is a real fan, they may be offended (caused to feel vexation or resentment by violation of what they consider proper or fitting). But I wouldn't consider the second person to have been insensitive or disrespectful. Saying the first person's team stinks I wouldn't consider sensitive, however, and saying the first person shouldn't be a fan I wouldn't consider respectful.
>
> But Alex was blocked for saying "I think the world would be better without religion"
>
> That statement is similarSorry, similar to what?
> that is what I sometimes have problems with. Blocks turn into an "I win" instead of allowing adults to come to terms with each other.
>
> AuntieMelI agree, they may, and they may also be more likely when people have difficulty coming to terms with each other...
--
> I'm not hurting NOW, just scared you GONNA hurt me you so and so.
> the problem IS you DO control my potential access to a support network for me.
>
> muffledI think that's a better way of putting it, I have power and you're vulnerable. Which I know can be scary.
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 12, 2006, at 4:57:26
In reply to defeated by the asterisk machine, posted by zazenduck on June 11, 2006, at 17:46:19
> I think Bob is a bully.
Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down.
But please don't take this personally, either, this doesn't mean I don't like you or think you're a bad person.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please first see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforceFollow-ups regarding these issues, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by AuntieMel on June 12, 2006, at 8:42:07
In reply to Re: truly massive thread, posted by Dr. Bob on June 12, 2006, at 4:56:10
>
> > > If one person likes the Cubs and another person says they prefer the White Sox, I'd consider that a disagreement. If the first person is a real fan, they may be offended (caused to feel vexation or resentment by violation of what they consider proper or fitting). But I wouldn't consider the second person to have been insensitive or disrespectful. Saying the first person's team stinks I wouldn't consider sensitive, however, and saying the first person shouldn't be a fan I wouldn't consider respectful.
> >
> > But Alex was blocked for saying "I think the world would be better without religion"
> >
> > That statement is similar
>
> Sorry, similar to what?Ok, I'll put quotes around it
"I prefer the White Sox over the Cubs" is the semantic equivalent of
"I think the world would be better without religion"If civility is about *how* things are worded (rudely, politely) then those two statements are the same.
>
> > that is what I sometimes have problems with. Blocks turn into an "I win" instead of allowing adults to come to terms with each other.
> >
> > AuntieMel
>
> I agree, they may, and they may also be more likely when people have difficulty coming to terms with each other...
>But - it seems that Alex gets blocked when the two of us get into a discussion. I always feel "discussion interruptus" when this happens because I know the two of us could get somewhere, but I haven't been able to spend much time on line and you get to it before I do.
It could leave people with the perception that I complained to you about her post instead of answering it.
Posted by Dinah on June 12, 2006, at 9:33:04
In reply to Re: being adults » Dr. Bob, posted by AuntieMel on June 12, 2006, at 8:42:07
My impression that an equivilant statement would be that the world would be better off without without the Cubs. Which is implying that the Cubs are somehow harmful to the world. Just as saying the world is a better place with the Cubs in it would imply that the Cubs are beneficial to the world, but doesn't exclude the possibility that the world is also better off for having the White Sox in it. So saying the world is a better place with the Cubs in it is saying nothing disrespectful about the White Sox.
That's different than saying you prefer the Cubs to the White Sox.
An equivilant statement would be "I am an atheist." Or "I choose atheism as my religion." or "Atheism is a better fit with my beliefs." Which doesn't say anything about the unchosen alternative except that you didn't choose it.
Posted by muffled on June 12, 2006, at 9:51:00
In reply to Re: truly massive thread, posted by Dr. Bob on June 12, 2006, at 4:56:10
>>I think that's a better way of putting it, I have power and you're vulnerable. Which I know can be scary.
Bob
Yeah, but ONLY here.
Physically YOU HAVE NO POWER OVER ME.
I could proly beat you up unless you got some special fighting training.
I just have to know this OK?
That you can't get me, thats all.
Big sigh...:-(
Muffled
Posted by curtm on June 12, 2006, at 10:34:21
In reply to Re: my logical brain is confused, posted by Jakeman on June 11, 2006, at 21:38:56
If there were ever an instance of an appellate system's funtionality and purpose, this would surely be it. This proves that there is no such system in place here.
Posted by curtm on June 12, 2006, at 10:44:39
In reply to Appellate system, posted by curtm on June 12, 2006, at 10:34:21
...if it be the case that there is and never will be a chance for one's sentence to be judged by one's piers, then I can honestly say I don't really care if I ever get blocked. There is no point. I will never intentionally try to get myself blocked, but since there is no clear definition, then I don't really give a shint EITHER.
nuf sed
Posted by teejay on June 12, 2006, at 21:04:59
In reply to Re: ................., posted by curtm on June 12, 2006, at 10:44:39
We are all mere mortals here and all in one way or another trying to enrich and improve our lives ...... I can only assume that the effort you put in suggests you would include yourself in this category of people?
If so, then can you explain to your 'clientelle' who would almost all like to see your block of estelle reversed, why you see fit to ignore the views of the many and steadfastly dig your heals in over this issue eventhough the huge majority thing you have made a mistake.
The sheer length of this thread (and the many follow ups) suggest this issue wont just go away if you ignore it but instead requires a well thought out and careful response from you.
I believe this board deserves more than than you have given it by way of a response so far.
Regards TJ
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 12, 2006, at 22:19:23
In reply to Come on Dr Bob....................., posted by teejay on June 12, 2006, at 21:04:59
> it seems that Alex gets blocked when the two of us get into a discussion. I always feel "discussion interruptus" when this happens because I know the two of us could get somewhere, but I haven't been able to spend much time on line and you get to it before I do.
>
> It could leave people with the perception that I complained to you about her post instead of answering it.
>
> AuntieMelI suppose, but you could also say you didn't...
--
> > > I think that's a better way of putting it, I have power and you're vulnerable.
>
> Yeah, but ONLY here.
> Physically YOU HAVE NO POWER OVER ME.
> I could proly beat you up unless you got some special fighting training.
> I just have to know this OK?
> That you can't get me, thats all.
>
> MuffledRight, only here. Every day I'm becoming less and less omnipotent! :-)
--
> can you explain to your 'clientelle' who would almost all like to see your block of estelle reversed, why you see fit to ignore the views of the many and steadfastly dig your heals in over this issue eventhough the huge majority thing you have made a mistake.
>
> Regards TJ> If there were ever an instance of an appellate system's funtionality and purpose, this would surely be it. This proves that there is no such system in place here.
>
> curtmI'm glad that a lot of people are supporting her, that's what this site's about, but I think the guidelines are important, too. The deputies could (in a way) be appealed to...
Bob
Posted by muffled on June 12, 2006, at 22:37:34
In reply to Re: getting blocked, posted by Dr. Bob on June 12, 2006, at 22:19:23
***Thx for your reply. You still have the power to hurt me. Just not phyically. I don't mind physical pain so much.
I'm glad that a lot of people are supporting her, that's what this site's about, but I think the guidelines are important, too.
***I don't think we are arguing about that guidlines are important. We arguing bout excessive rigidity.
That even though many in the community feel strongly bout something, YOU (omnipotent one) won't change it.The deputies could (in a way) be appealed to...
***Whaddya mean????????????? Are you just sending us on a false mission to take the heat of youself?
Manoman, you shouldn't have been a p-doc, you shoulda been a polititian!
Muffled
Posted by Jakeman on June 12, 2006, at 23:04:24
In reply to Dr. Bob? 3rd request. Re: blocked for 4 weeks, posted by Jakeman on June 4, 2006, at 1:05:55
> Are you willing to reconsider this block?
>
> Respectfully, Jake
>I'm glad that a lot of people are supporting >her, that's what this site's about, but I think >the guidelines are important, too.Bob, I'm a little confused by your answer. Does that mean NO to my question? I'm tend to see things simply and have a need for clear communication.
warm regards, Jake
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