![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by sdb on May 12, 2005, at 22:49:08
Dear Robert Hsiung,
First, I do not live in the US and I do not want to import US prescription medication without a prespriction!
Second, I do not want to give data to persons in the US to do that. I know that this is in conflict with US law but rationally the ascertainment of guiltiness is anyway in questionable. I do not think you read some other posts making clear that I am not US citizen. But this is only an unimportant irrelevant fact. I am sorry that I started the thread "best opioids against social phobia“. If you think I could harm somebody ban me! Honestly, Ito harm every suffering individual, who could take something wrong. I feel connected and I would like to help every person who has similar problems than I have. I always would like to help the weak as long as they will be not too strong afterwards. I thank you to ban me with your old practical Perl Server program for one week. I am not angry. What is with our personal data we gave to you? –Is this data hopefully secured for eternity on your server? Against organic pain problems many persons use opioids to combat pain and they feel very thankful to these substances. I have myself used opioids to treat repeating dry cough with success. It would be a bad idea to completely exclude these and other not common substances to treat mental disordered individuals. For example oripavine derivatives (Buprenorphine), atypicals (Tramadol), even underestimated non opioid alpha2-agonists (clonidine, guanfacine) or specific catecholamine modulatores. Do not falsely prevent alternative therapy options and please acknowledge this. When I worked in psychiatry department ethanol was by far the worst drug and not opioids. Interestingly according to some studies in my country, patients who stopped heroin withdrawal continued to live awful and most patients who continued heroin intake worked later after some state support in education, as business managers. Not all opioids, but some of these substances could be useful to combat mental disorder. Organic pain and mental pain is somehow connected if you study the effects on central nervous system of endogenous, natural and synthetical opioids. I am not mentally disordered most time, except during my hereditary bipolar tendencies in which panic, social avoidance and OCD can occur especially in springtime. As a young student I can prescribe myself but many substances are not available in my country and I logically try to get them somewhere else (for example Tranylcypromine, Phenelzine…) and that was the reason you banned me for a week. Please do not forbid to much mental disordered people to get relief from good alternative treatment options and do not misuse your power.
There are many FDA approved substances, above all SSRIS which can cause
OCD and suicidal thoughts. Do not think only the FDA approved drugs are the "good" ones. The FDA even averts new proven secure innovations when they come in our country to stop entire export production and argue that you have the wrong computer chip for a new insulin pump. The FDA does often not help patients but sometimes harm them. But of course I know that medical doctors must be somehow secured by legal punishment. Too many substances are no more available. Drug makers do not produce them longer because of expiration of the patent. They produce "new" even less effective drugs. I know it because I have taken some older and newer ones myself. In medical school you learn a lot of theory and I beg you pardon a lot of nonsense. They postulate theories of complicated organic procedures but in vivo it does not function as they believe and they want to believe. Proofs for efficacy are at most only achieved in statistical research which is often controversial. Do not think drug makers want primarily cure people, there are too many examples I can numerate that a lot of money is the reason. It would be counterproductive in any case to ban alternative substances. Doctors should consider any further options. The medical doctor’s mission is not preventing human death in any case. In this instance he can only be a looser. Medical doctors as absolutely normal "human" primates with very often lower intelligence than other individuals should elevate human life quality and they should try to diminish somehow usual human suffering. I like your forum because you can feel connected and you can share and obtain "applied" knowledge.
I am sure people speak more honestly in this forum as they do in hospital, when you ask them about the effect of a drug. Have you ever taken some substances yourself? –I suppose the answer will be none or no. I have more trust in somebody who has taken worse drugs ex. SSRIS him- or herself. Most of the psychiatrists I know does or did. The question if psychiatrists do help or harm people is legitimate.Moreover it remains to be rationally discussed if this Internet forum is really an advantage for mental suffering individuals. It could lead to disinformation and a form of personal computer forming addiction behavioural. So far I personally have the sentiment that positive aspects prevail. This forum can be a form of self help because many psychiatrics are not or can not be capable enough. As a suggestion of improvement I would propose to mention some free costless self-help groups for different mental disorders in every state on your site. This could improve real communication and rehabilitation for some people and they will perhaps not run to the next doctor for the newest medication they have learnt from Dr. Bob’s Psycho-Babble. At last I would please you not to adapt too smart famous words of great philosophers “Nature's most excellent web sites? ... whatever does not kill them makes them stronger”. I do not know if Friedrich Nietzsche would have been pleased somebody changing his words in that sense or probably in any sense. Friedrich Nietzsche spent some nice days in the wonderful village Sils-Maria but overall as many philosophers he suffered mental disorder and his words stand for its own. Anyway Nietzsche is dead and nobody knows what is coming afterwards. I will never go to Canossa, so you can easefully delete this post, redirect to anywhrere and you can ban me for a second time for this. You have the power. Do not understand things too personally, it is better to think always rational. Sorry my poor English. I live in [xxx].
Kind regards
Posted by ed_uk on May 12, 2005, at 22:49:08
In reply to Thank you to ban me a week because I harmed people, posted by sdb on May 11, 2005, at 6:11:15
Hi sdb,
I don't think you harmed anyone :-) I hope you are not upset.
Kind regards,
Ed.
Posted by sdb on May 12, 2005, at 22:49:08
In reply to Thank you to ban me a week because I harmed people, posted by sdb on May 11, 2005, at 6:11:15
Hi ed!
Thank you for your compassion. I am neither upset nor angry.
You and everybody are welcome!
Posted by ed_uk on May 12, 2005, at 22:49:08
In reply to Re: Thank you to ban me a week because I....to ed, posted by sdb on May 11, 2005, at 15:34:50
Hi sdb!
>I am neither upset nor angry.
:-)
Kind regards,
Ed.
Posted by alienatari on May 12, 2005, at 22:49:09
In reply to Thank you to ban me a week because I harmed people, posted by sdb on May 11, 2005, at 6:11:15
I dont think you harmed anyone either. I had a similar thing happen to me when I posted about Amineptine. I dont live in the US either and this product is legally available as an import (but not made here) in my country.
I guess maybe it was just a misunderstanding. Maybe the same for your case too. But yea who knows *shrugs*. I hope it doesnt happen to you again.
Take care
> Dear Robert Hsiung,
>
>
> First, I do not live in the US and I do not want to import US prescription medication without a prespriction!
> Second, I do not want to give data to persons in the US to do that. I know that this is in conflict with US law but rationally the ascertainment of guiltiness is anyway in questionable. I do not think you read some other posts making clear that I am not US citizen. But this is only an unimportant irrelevant fact. I am sorry that I started the thread "best opioids against social phobia“. If you think I could harm somebody ban me! Honestly, Ito harm every suffering individual, who could take something wrong. I feel connected and I would like to help every person who has similar problems than I have. I always would like to help the weak as long as they will be not too strong afterwards. I thank you to ban me with your old practical Perl Server program for one week. I am not angry. What is with our personal data we gave to you? –Is this data hopefully secured for eternity on your server?
>
> Against organic pain problems many persons use opioids to combat pain and they feel very thankful to these substances. I have myself used opioids to treat repeating dry cough with success. It would be a bad idea to completely exclude these and other not common substances to treat mental disordered individuals. For example oripavine derivatives (Buprenorphine), atypicals (Tramadol), even underestimated non opioid alpha2-agonists (clonidine, guanfacine) or specific catecholamine modulatores. Do not falsely prevent alternative therapy options and please acknowledge this. When I worked in psychiatry department ethanol was by far the worst drug and not opioids. Interestingly according to some studies in my country, patients who stopped heroin withdrawal continued to live awful and most patients who continued heroin intake worked later after some state support in education, as business managers. Not all opioids, but some of these substances could be useful to combat mental disorder. Organic pain and mental pain is somehow connected if you study the effects on central nervous system of endogenous, natural and synthetical opioids. I am not mentally disordered most time, except during my hereditary bipolar tendencies in which panic, social avoidance and OCD can occur especially in springtime. As a young student I can prescribe myself but many substances are not available in my country and I logically try to get them somewhere else (for example Tranylcypromine, Phenelzine…) and that was the reason you banned me for a week. Please do not forbid to much mental disordered people to get relief from good alternative treatment options and do not misuse your power.
>
> There are many FDA approved substances, above all SSRIS which can causeOCD and suicidal thoughts. Do not think only the FDA approved drugs are the "good" ones. The FDA even averts new proven secure innovations when they come in our country to stop entire export production and argue that you have the wrong computer chip for a new insulin pump. The FDA does often not help patients but sometimes harm them. But of course I know that medical doctors must be somehow secured by legal punishment. Too many substances are no more available. Drug makers do not produce them longer because of expiration of the patent. They produce "new" even less effective drugs. I know it because I have taken some older and newer ones myself. In medical school you learn a lot of theory and I beg you pardon a lot of nonsense. They postulate theories of complicated organic procedures but in vivo it does not function as they believe and they want to believe. Proofs for efficacy are at most only achieved in statistical research which is often controversial. Do not think drug makers want primarily cure people, there are too many examples I can numerate that a lot of money is the reason. It would be counterproductive in any case to ban alternative substances. Doctors should consider any further options. The medical doctor’s mission is not preventing human death in any case. In this instance he can only be a looser. Medical doctors as absolutely normal "human" primates with very often lower intelligence than other individuals should elevate human life quality and they should try to diminish somehow usual human suffering.
>
> I like your forum because you can feel connected and you can share and obtain "applied" knowledge.
> I am sure people speak more honestly in this forum as they do in hospital, when you ask them about the effect of a drug. Have you ever taken some substances yourself? –I suppose the answer will be none or no. I have more trust in somebody who has taken worse drugs ex. SSRIS him- or herself. Most of the psychiatrists I know does or did. The question if psychiatrists do help or harm people is legitimate.
>
> Moreover it remains to be rationally discussed if this Internet forum is really an advantage for mental suffering individuals. It could lead to disinformation and a form of personal computer forming addiction behavioural. So far I personally have the sentiment that positive aspects prevail. This forum can be a form of self help because many psychiatrics are not or can not be capable enough. As a suggestion of improvement I would propose to mention some free costless self-help groups for different mental disorders in every state on your site. This could improve real communication and rehabilitation for some people and they will perhaps not run to the next doctor for the newest medication they have learnt from Dr. Bob’s Psycho-Babble. At last I would please you not to adapt too smart famous words of great philosophers “Nature's most excellent web sites? ... whatever does not kill them makes them stronger”. I do not know if Friedrich Nietzsche would have been pleased somebody changing his words in that sense or probably in any sense. Friedrich Nietzsche spent some nice days in the wonderful village Sils-Maria but overall as many philosophers he suffered mental disorder and his words stand for its own. Anyway Nietzsche is dead and nobody knows what is coming afterwards. I will never go to Canossa, so you can easefully delete this post, redirect to anywhrere and you can ban me for a second time for this. You have the power. Do not understand things too personally, it is better to think always rational. Sorry my poor English. I live in [xxx].
>
>
> Kind regards
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Posted by Dr. Bob on May 13, 2005, at 4:00:51
In reply to Thank you to ban me a week because I harmed people, posted by sdb on May 11, 2005, at 6:11:15
> I do not want to give data to persons in the US to do that.
I didn't mean to imply that you did, I was just afraid your post might lead others to post data that could be used to do that.
> What is with our personal data we gave to you? –Is this data hopefully secured for eternity on your server?
Hopefully, yes, but see:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#privacy
> Do not falsely prevent alternative therapy options and please acknowledge this.
It's fine to discuss here the pros and cons of alternative therapy options, just not how to obtain some of them in some ways:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#illegal
> I like your forum because you can feel connected and you can share and obtain "applied" knowledge.
That's nice to hear, thanks!
> As a suggestion of improvement I would propose to mention some free costless self-help groups for different mental disorders in every state on your site.
I agree, it would be nice if people posted information like that...
> I would please you not to adapt too smart famous words of great philosophers “Nature's most excellent web sites? ... whatever does not kill them makes them stronger”. I do not know if Friedrich Nietzsche would have been pleased somebody changing his words in that sense or probably in any sense.
I don't know, either, but imitation is the sincerest form of flattery? :-)
Bob
Posted by sdb on May 13, 2005, at 8:24:55
In reply to Re: Thank you, posted by Dr. Bob on May 13, 2005, at 4:00:51
Dear Dr. Bob,
Thank you very much for your response. I read your answers to some states I've made.
> As a suggestion of improvement I would propose to mention some free costless self-help groups for different mental disorders in every state on your site.
I agree, it would be nice if people posted information like that...
>> I could give you links and adresses of costless selfhelp groups in [xxx]. For the US I do not have any information.
> I would please you not to adapt too smart famous words of great philosophers “Nature's most excellent web sites? ... whatever does not kill them makes them stronger”. I do not know if Friedrich Nietzsche would have been pleased somebody changing his words in that sense or probably in any sense.
I don't know, either, but imitation is the sincerest form of flattery? :-)
>>Ah yes, of course I understand. In that sense I find it very legitimate to do in some way
imitation :-) Kind regards
sdb
Posted by Dr. Bob on May 13, 2005, at 22:49:58
In reply to Re: Thank you too, posted by sdb on May 13, 2005, at 8:24:55
> I could give you links and adresses of costless selfhelp groups in [xxx]. For the US I do not have any information.
Maybe that could be a new area at Psycho-Babble Tips?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/psycho-babble-tips/links
Bob
Posted by sdb on May 14, 2005, at 5:46:00
In reply to Re: costless selfhelp groups, posted by Dr. Bob on May 13, 2005, at 22:49:58
Dear Dr. Bob,
I joined myself a costless self-helf group a long time ago without an observing medical doctor before studying. There were sufferes of depression/anxiety.
Positive aspects were: friendships, find out which doctor could be the best, go out and speaking in front of understanding people.
Perhaps less positive aspect: exchange information of drug effects (I think this is a clear positive property of your forum). Some persons of the self-help group had almost no knowledge of medicine or psychopharmacology. Because there were only fifteen people taking often the same drugs (time was during the peak of the SSRI hype, means use of SSRI's to treat every mental disorder) the possibility to find an appropriate drug for yourself was more difficult.
I have to work pretty hard this time, thus give me some weeks to find good quality links and information about costless self-help groups in [xxx].
I do not know how many people of [xxx] are registered in p-babble. But I suppose there are some and there is no equal forum in quality in [xxx].
Kind regards
sdb
Posted by Dr. Bob on May 15, 2005, at 1:04:43
In reply to Good input, I will try to find information in [xxx], posted by sdb on May 14, 2005, at 5:46:00
> I do not know how many people of [xxx] are registered in p-babble.
13 as of 4/29/05. Not every country is listed separately, but some statistics are at:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/stats/20050429.html
Bob
Posted by sdb on May 15, 2005, at 1:54:11
In reply to Re: people of [xxx], posted by Dr. Bob on May 15, 2005, at 1:04:43
Dear Dr. Bob,
It seems not to be many registered people in these countries. But who knows, in some month or years will join a lot more. English is learnt more extensively in schools and even old people (primarely speaking german, french) join courses to learn english in [xxx]. I think it is worthy to give some links in the "yahoo babble-links" to groups in [xxx] and I could place them to some other sites (I need some time perhaps weeks, months to find good links, adresses in every state in [xxx]. I've not much spare time because I am hard working). I have not found a comparable forum in [xxx] and [xxx].
By the way, there are many pricy guided help groups in the US and [xxx].
I personally think "costless" selhelp groups would be anyway a very good alternative. I like the idea of selfhelp, groups of human beings always joined in times of fear and pain to help and it seemed to be effective (Personal experience: during a heavy snow storm with immediate high avalanche danger in a small village in the mountains, all people went to the church helping each other).
I would be pleased somebody else would do that in the US and elsewhere. Perhaps I will find somebody, who is willing to find links, adresses here in this forum.
kind regards
sdb
This is the end of the thread.
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