Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 1117476

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Re: (Really) Cold water..back in the day..

Posted by Lamdage22 on December 2, 2021, at 13:05:34

In reply to Re: (Really) Cold water..back in the day.., posted by undopaminergic on December 2, 2021, at 12:19:20

> > At least you have internet there. What was the reason for hospitalization?
> >
>
> Originally, I don't know really, but I was out for a particularly long walk to an unsual location and in the middle of the night. To put it short, I guess you could say I was acting out of character or just in a way that alarmed someone. The hospital I was at first sent me to the current hospital because they thought I was unmanageable; notably, I escaped to another country (and was sent back), and I threw a computer monitor onto the floor to illustrate my dissatisfaction with a conversation with a doctor.

The doctors care more about odd or angry behavior than anhedonia, even if you feel the anhedonia is worse. If you act out in a damaging way, they are on the hot seat. Ontop of that, some stuff is hard to live with when you are ok again and think: What the hell did I do...

> Normalising dopaminergic neurotransmission would be a good start for the treatment of many disorders, but I don't think drugs can do it, and even if they did, the problem is likely not just dopamine.
>
> Abilify did nothing for me, but pramipexole was the only drug that ever relieved my anhedonia.

Did it have side effects? What made you quit?

 

Re: (Really) Cold water..back in the day..

Posted by Lamdage22 on December 2, 2021, at 13:35:14

In reply to Re: (Really) Cold water..back in the day.., posted by Lamdage22 on December 2, 2021, at 13:05:34

Wish I could chat with babblers on the psychology board. I don't understand the tendency to talk about meds and not psychology.

 

Re: (Really) Cold water..back in the day..

Posted by undopaminergic on December 3, 2021, at 8:37:49

In reply to Re: (Really) Cold water..back in the day.., posted by Lamdage22 on December 2, 2021, at 13:05:34

> > > At least you have internet there. What was the reason for hospitalization?
> > >
> >
> > Originally, I don't know really, but I was out for a particularly long walk to an unsual location and in the middle of the night. To put it short, I guess you could say I was acting out of character or just in a way that alarmed someone. The hospital I was at first sent me to the current hospital because they thought I was unmanageable; notably, I escaped to another country (and was sent back), and I threw a computer monitor onto the floor to illustrate my dissatisfaction with a conversation with a doctor.
>
> The doctors care more about odd or angry behavior than anhedonia, ...

Yes, I know.

> If you act out in a damaging way, they are on the hot seat.

I'm not sure what being on the hot seat means.

> Ontop of that, some stuff is hard to live with when you are ok again and think: What the hell did I do...
>

Yes. I wrote some embarrassing e-mails when I was erotomanic.

> > Abilify did nothing for me, but pramipexole was the only drug that ever relieved my anhedonia.
>
> Did it have side effects? What made you quit?

Pretty much as you'd expect (and hope otherwise!) it stopped working. I think there was also intermittent tiredness.

-undopaminergic

 

Re: (Really) Cold water..back in the day..

Posted by Lamdage22 on December 3, 2021, at 8:40:25

In reply to Re: (Really) Cold water..back in the day.., posted by undopaminergic on December 3, 2021, at 8:37:49

They get into trouble if you do.

> I'm not sure what being on the hot seat means.

 

Re: (Really) Cold water..back in the day..

Posted by undopaminergic on December 3, 2021, at 8:44:41

In reply to Re: (Really) Cold water..back in the day.., posted by Lamdage22 on December 2, 2021, at 13:35:14

> Wish I could chat with babblers on the psychology board. I don't understand the tendency to talk about meds and not psychology.
>

The medication section is the main forum. Posting here is the path of least resistance. It is to be expected that it gets the most activity, and so if you post here you get the most readers (and thus replyers).

I'm interested in psychology, but I am not in the habit of checking other sections.

-undopaminergic

 

Re: (Really) Cold water..back in the day..

Posted by Lamdage22 on December 4, 2021, at 4:19:40

In reply to Re: (Really) Cold water..back in the day.., posted by undopaminergic on December 3, 2021, at 8:44:41

Ok, so its kind of a rule now that you can post psychology or lifestyle stuff here? Yeah, this place is very liberal. Topic changes, everything. If you do that elsewhere they will tell you off big time

> > Wish I could chat with babblers on the psychology board. I don't understand the tendency to talk about meds and not psychology.
> >
>
> The medication section is the main forum. Posting here is the path of least resistance. It is to be expected that it gets the most activity, and so if you post here you get the most readers (and thus replyers).
>
> I'm interested in psychology, but I am not in the habit of checking other sections.
>
> -undopaminergic
>

 

Re: (Really) Cold water..back in the day..

Posted by undopaminergic on December 4, 2021, at 14:47:52

In reply to Re: (Really) Cold water..back in the day.., posted by Lamdage22 on December 4, 2021, at 4:19:40

> Ok, so its kind of a rule now that you can post psychology or lifestyle stuff here?
>

It's not official. I remember back when Dr. Bob was more active here, that he would sometimes move a thread to another section.

> Yeah, this place is very liberal. Topic changes, everything. If you do that elsewhere they will tell you off big time
>

Most places I've used tolerate topic drift.

-undopaminergic


> > > Wish I could chat with babblers on the psychology board. I don't understand the tendency to talk about meds and not psychology.
> > >
> >
> > The medication section is the main forum. Posting here is the path of least resistance. It is to be expected that it gets the most activity, and so if you post here you get the most readers (and thus replyers).
> >
> > I'm interested in psychology, but I am not in the habit of checking other sections.
> >
> > -undopaminergic
> >
>
>

 

Re: (Really) Cold water..back in the day..

Posted by Lamdage22 on December 4, 2021, at 15:20:10

In reply to Re: (Really) Cold water..back in the day.., posted by undopaminergic on December 4, 2021, at 14:47:52

I like your theory that any activity is welcomed at this point. It is not enough for several different boards, for sure.

> It's not official. I remember back when Dr. Bob was more active here, that he would sometimes move a thread to another section.

 

Re: (Really) Cold water..back in the day..

Posted by Lamdage22 on December 5, 2021, at 3:09:21

In reply to Re: (Really) Cold water..back in the day.., posted by Lamdage22 on December 4, 2021, at 15:20:10

Any constructive activity, anyway.

 

Re: (Really) Cold water..back in the day..

Posted by undopaminergic on December 5, 2021, at 8:45:39

In reply to Re: (Really) Cold water..back in the day.., posted by Lamdage22 on December 4, 2021, at 15:20:10

My theory? I don't know what you're referring to.

> I like your theory that any activity is welcomed at this point. It is not enough for several different boards, for sure.
>
> > It's not official. I remember back when Dr. Bob was more active here, that he would sometimes move a thread to another section.
>

-undopaminergic

 

Re: (Really) Cold water..back in the day..

Posted by Lamdage22 on December 6, 2021, at 0:59:19

In reply to Re: (Really) Cold water..back in the day.., posted by undopaminergic on December 5, 2021, at 8:45:39

I thought you said a while back that most activity is good activity since these boards aren't visited anymore like they used to. I could have confused something.

 

Re: (Really) Cold water..back in the day..

Posted by undopaminergic on December 6, 2021, at 5:07:22

In reply to Re: (Really) Cold water..back in the day.., posted by Lamdage22 on December 6, 2021, at 0:59:19

> I thought you said a while back that most activity is good activity since these boards aren't visited anymore like they used to. I could have confused something.
>

Well it could be something I said, because I agree with it.

-undopaminergic

 

Re: (Really) Cold water..back in the day.. undopaminergic

Posted by Jay2112 on December 8, 2021, at 15:23:25

In reply to Re: (Really) Cold water..back in the day.., posted by undopaminergic on December 2, 2021, at 8:35:47

> > I understand you are excited that it relieved your symptoms but I question how sustainable that is long term. IE Would it keep producing that result. Do you think it would?
> >
>
> Well, as I implied, the dopaminergic (cocaine-like) stimulant on its own stopped working, although it did happen only after many years. So in that sense, it wasn't sustainable. I don't know if the combination with caffeine would also stop working with time. So the answer to your question is maybe -- I don't know.
>
> I'm unable to use this treatment now because I'm hospitalised and the doctors here are very negative toward this class of drugs, as well as benzodiazepines, and certain others, including anticholinergics; meanwhile they are infatuated with clozapine and olanzapine (Zyprexa).
>
> When I get discharged, I don't know what I'll do. I want to be able to "naturally" feel and function well, without drugs, and if I use them, I'm afraid I'll remain dependent on them indefinitely as a crutch. But can I afford to waste years of my life on remaining depressed when I know there are treatments that help?
>
> -undopaminergic
>

Hey UD,

I am sorry to hear you are hospitalized. :( But, it may be best for now. Have you ever tried any cholinergic stimulation? It may help re-sensitize your dopamine receptors. Plus, it's just good for brain health all around. (Not toooo much, though..like any neurochemical, you gotta be cautious, of course.)

Have you ever tried Lyrica? It's a pro-GABBA drug, but much unlike benzos, is not dulling or such. As well, how about a very small dose of a stimulant? Amphetamine, especially Vyvanse, is very, very smooth. Much moreso than Ritalin and it's siblings. I have been on Vyvanse since it came out in 2010 (or so)...and it works just as well as when I started it. Plus, it will pull you out of depression within a few days.

Best,
Jay :)

 

Re: (Really) Cold water..back in the day..

Posted by undopaminergic on December 9, 2021, at 8:39:08

In reply to Re: (Really) Cold water..back in the day.. undopaminergic, posted by Jay2112 on December 8, 2021, at 15:23:25

>
> Hey UD,
>

Hey Jay (that's a rhyme!).

> I am sorry to hear you are hospitalized. :( But, it may be best for now.

I'm afraid it's not helping.

> Have you ever tried any cholinergic stimulation?

Yes, huperzine A. It's marketed as a supplement, and comes from a Chinese moss.

It helped my dream recall.

> It may help re-sensitize your dopamine receptors.

I wasn't aware of that.

> Have you ever tried Lyrica?

No, but I'd like to try some day. I don't have anxiety or seizures, however, so I have no good arguments for convincing a doctor to prescribe it.

> how about a very small dose of a stimulant?

As I said, stimulants are not available to me now due to the hospitalisation and the attitudes of doctors here.

> Amphetamine, especially Vyvanse, is very, very smooth. Much moreso than Ritalin and it's siblings. I have been on Vyvanse since it came out in 2010 (or so)...and it works just as well as when I started it. Plus, it will pull you out of depression within a few days.
>

I haven't tried amphetamine, only phenylethylamine (PEA), also known as the chocolate amphetamine. It pulled me out of depression fast, but it is very destructive to binge on it, which I did because it has such a short half-life. I was much worse off when I finally (should have sooner!) quit it than before I started it. Read about people who quit methamphetamine and you'll get some idea of how I felt. I haven't fully recovered even after many years (maybe around 15 years).

> Best,
> Jay :)

And the same to you

-undopaminergic

 

Hospital helping any, UD?

Posted by Lamdage22 on December 17, 2021, at 3:08:48

In reply to Re: (Really) Cold water..back in the day.., posted by undopaminergic on December 9, 2021, at 8:39:08

Many times when I was on hospital, it didn't really help. The doctors were too self absorbed with their abilities to notice. They did want to discharge me though and yeah, what doctor admits that he isn't helping.

What to do? I don't know, everything that comes to mind would cost $. Unless you can convince your doctor to run blood tests and he finds deficiencies that are even considered deficiencies in traditional medicine. Can you ask for a psychologist where you are? Maybe one that doesn't just ask if you are taking your meds?

 

Re: Hospital helping any, UD?

Posted by undopaminergic on December 17, 2021, at 8:06:07

In reply to Hospital helping any, UD?, posted by Lamdage22 on December 17, 2021, at 3:08:48

> Many times when I was on hospital, it didn't really help.

It's not helping me either.

> Can you ask for a psychologist where you are? Maybe one that doesn't just ask if you are taking your meds?
>

Sure I can ask, but they're always slow to deliver here. I mentioned I wanted psychotherapy some weeks ago.

-undopaminergic

 

Re: Hospital helping any, UD?

Posted by Lamdage22 on December 17, 2021, at 10:02:40

In reply to Re: Hospital helping any, UD?, posted by undopaminergic on December 17, 2021, at 8:06:07

My experience in these environments is that you have to be kind but persistent.

> I mentioned I wanted psychotherapy some weeks ago.
>
> -undopaminergic
>

 

Re: Hospital helping any, UD?

Posted by Lamdage22 on December 18, 2021, at 1:45:18

In reply to Re: Hospital helping any, UD?, posted by Lamdage22 on December 17, 2021, at 10:02:40

And don't smash anything :) Might make them think you are too out of it for therapy.

 

Re: Hospital helping any, UD?

Posted by undopaminergic on December 18, 2021, at 9:29:51

In reply to Re: Hospital helping any, UD?, posted by Lamdage22 on December 18, 2021, at 1:45:18

> And don't smash anything :) Might make them think you are too out of it for therapy.
>

The psychologist said she'd forward my request to some workgroup on psychotherapy that I had never heard of. She also talked about some "activating" sort of psychosocial treatment. I told her that "activating" didn't sound like anything I'd be interested in; I said that activation comes naturally and spontaneously when the apathy subsides, but until then any outer attempts at activation are only irritating or even angering.

Have they ever tried to foist "activation" on you?

People used to tell me to exercise. Now that I do, they want me to do something else, such as handicrafts (make little trinkets) or outdoor work (such as sweeping dropped leaves).

Several times, they have tried to talk me into moving to a ward where there's more work, or "rehabilitation" as they call it. I like to tell them I'm allergic to rehabilitation.

-undopaminergic

 

Re: Hospital helping any, UD?

Posted by Lamdage22 on December 18, 2021, at 9:42:27

In reply to Re: Hospital helping any, UD?, posted by undopaminergic on December 18, 2021, at 9:29:51

Hmm. They have. It sounds like it could be less boring there though. If they are not making you paint mandalas there. What can you do there? Maybe some of it is fun.

Not sure if activation comes naturally. At least not to us. You always have to decide to do it. I dont think that by popping some pill, all of a sudden you become active and stay active without tolerance or addiction. And it is not natural either.

That is just my opinion. I am the anti-meds guy here. I take them myself though, I just dont expect miraculous transformation from them.

 

Re: Hospital helping any, UD?

Posted by Lamdage22 on December 18, 2021, at 9:45:13

In reply to Re: Hospital helping any, UD?, posted by Lamdage22 on December 18, 2021, at 9:42:27

Not to say to give up exercise. Dont.

 

Re: Hospital helping any, UD?

Posted by Lamdage22 on December 18, 2021, at 11:26:03

In reply to Re: Hospital helping any, UD?, posted by undopaminergic on December 18, 2021, at 9:29:51

What is the alternative?

>I like to tell them I'm allergic to rehabilitation.

 

Re: Hospital helping any, UD?

Posted by undopaminergic on December 18, 2021, at 11:42:51

In reply to Re: Hospital helping any, UD?, posted by Lamdage22 on December 18, 2021, at 11:26:03

> What is the alternative?
>
> >I like to tell them I'm allergic to rehabilitation.
>

The alternative is to just continue to do the things I'm already doing, such as walking and participating in Psychobabble.

-undopaminergic

 

Re: Hospital helping any, UD?

Posted by undopaminergic on December 18, 2021, at 12:12:18

In reply to Re: Hospital helping any, UD?, posted by Lamdage22 on December 18, 2021, at 9:42:27

> Hmm. They have. It sounds like it could be less boring there though. If they are not making you paint mandalas there. What can you do there? Maybe some of it is fun.
>

It might be more fun if I weren't depressive. What you can do? I can't readily describe it, but it's usually to make small (though sometimes a bit larger) decorational items of different sorts. There is painting, weaving, sewing, glueing, carpentry, etc..

> Not sure if activation comes naturally.

It does to me when I'm not apathetic.

> At least not to us.

Not when we are apathetic.

> You always have to decide to do it.

Well, I guess there is always a decision at some point. But the decision is an easy and minor one when you have inspiration and enthusiasm. Even to do small things often takes major willpower when you have apathy -- or maybe you could say you just have less willpower when you're apathetic.

Moreover, when you are apathetic, you often don't even have ideas for what to do. Or the ideas you do have seem out of reach because they require mental energy that you are lacking. Even just brushing my teeth is often an almost insurmountable task to me when apathetic.

> I dont think that by popping some pill, all of a sudden you become active and stay active without tolerance or addiction.
>

I'm not saying there is a perfect pill, but as I've mentioned elsewhere, a psychostimulant takes me out of suicidal ideation and apathy in a matter of minutes after a dose. There is some degree of tolerance, and there can be addiction, but you still benefit from the treatment in terms of feeling and functioning better.

> And it is not natural either.

Of course a pill is not natural, but I believe they can compensate for a deficit in the natural abundance of a substance like dopamine, or counteract the overabundance of some other substance like glutamate.

> That is just my opinion. I am the anti-meds guy here. I take them myself though, I just dont expect miraculous transformation from them.
>

Well, when I'm at my worst, the difference between taking a stimulant and not doing so is like day and night.

-undopaminergic

 

Re: Hospital helping any, UD?

Posted by Lamdage22 on December 18, 2021, at 13:44:49

In reply to Re: Hospital helping any, UD?, posted by undopaminergic on December 18, 2021, at 11:42:51

I dont want to be a wise *ss here. From the outside, it is always easy to advise.


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