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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Joan797 on July 27, 2006, at 8:00:41
"You know what your problem is?"
"You think everyone is out to get you."
"You think we are all the enemy."
"I'm not your enemy."No, but you're not my friend.
"You know what your problem is?"
"You take things the wrong way."
"You make something out of nothing."
"I didn't mean it that way."You never do.
"You know what your problem is? "
"You think everyone should do your bidding."
"You are too bossy."
"You expect things to be done immediately."No, I just think that after asking 10 times, I'm being ignored and disrespected.
"You know what your problem is?"
"You think you're better than me."
"You think you're smarter than me."I am.
"You know what your problem is?"
Yes, you.
Posted by Joan797 on July 27, 2006, at 23:54:18
In reply to You know what your problem is?, posted by Joan797 on July 27, 2006, at 8:00:41
"You know what your problem is?"
"Your selfish"
"You think everything is about you"No, I think nothing is about me.
I think that I'm over 40, and for half my life nothing has been about me, it's always been about everyone else, and now, there is no me to search for. THere is no use of having a midlife crisis to find myself, there is no me. And that is my fault, I allowed life, family, marriage to swallow me up until there is no Joan left.
Posted by susan47 on July 28, 2006, at 1:05:10
In reply to Re: You know what your problem is?, posted by Joan797 on July 27, 2006, at 23:54:18
Honey, of course there is a Joan left. She's writ large here, there and everywhere and you just need to open your damn peepers, girl, and see her.. she's You You YOU and if she were dead and done for, what the hell are you writing all this sh*t for then? I don't buy it honeybun. She ain't dead you just quit that you're peeing me off very very badly here. Grow into who you are and quit being so damned scared of yourself. Hey .. did you know you are the boss of how people treat you? Ack begone, damn thought!
No, I'm not manic, I'm having a damn good time and I hope you're good with it Joan, Joan, Joanie. Mmmmmmwah.
Posted by Declan on July 28, 2006, at 2:37:18
In reply to Re: You know what your problem is?, posted by Joan797 on July 27, 2006, at 23:54:18
I allowed life, family, marriage to swallow me up until there is no Joan left.
You could read Sylvia Plath I guess. Maybe you have. What is it?
Ash ash you poke and stir
Flesh bone there is nothing there
A cake of soap, a gold filling, a wedding ring. (?)Adressed to her therapist, I think, which was rather fun.
Posted by Joan 797 on July 28, 2006, at 8:41:29
In reply to Baloney Schmaloney » Joan797, posted by susan47 on July 28, 2006, at 1:05:10
I am paralized by the fear of becoming my own person. I am struck down each and every time I hear the phrase "You know what your problem is?" I sometimes, no, make that often times, hear it in my head when noone is around. I catch myself saying to myself when I do something he would criticize. It's easier to not voice an opinion, because my opinions are always poo pooed. It's not like I don't try to be my own person, and yes I have grown leeps and bounds since my Dad's illness and I was away from hom so much. My independence grew and is still growing. It's just sometimes so frustrating to deal with someone living in the 18th century. He's maddly in love don't you know and that is supposed to solve all of life's riddles. And yet, I don't even have the nerve to hurt him by telling him that not only do I NOT love him, I don't want to be around him, he grosses me out, and I can't stop finding fault, and his years of lack of respect towards me has finally oozed into my poors and I have no respect for him. I need Dr. Phil. seriously, I need Dr Phil.
Posted by Declan on July 28, 2006, at 14:46:21
In reply to Re: Baloney Schmaloney » susan47, posted by Joan 797 on July 28, 2006, at 8:41:29
Posted by Joan797 on July 29, 2006, at 0:06:37
In reply to Re: You know what your problem is?, posted by Declan on July 28, 2006, at 2:37:18
Didn't Sylvia Plath kill herself? Was that her solution to the same problem of loss of self and nothingness?
Pity and Guilt seem to coincide for me. Yes I pity but I remain out of guilt and fear as well.
Posted by Declan on July 29, 2006, at 13:15:11
In reply to Re: You know what your problem is?, posted by Joan797 on July 29, 2006, at 0:06:37
There were some details about Sylvia Plath's suicide that attracted interest. First, after settling the kids, she carefully blocked the bottoms of the doors to prevent gas from entering their room. And then she placed her head on a carefully folded towel (I think it was) in the oven.
But of course I have no idea why she killed herself, except that when you read "Ariel" you are not surprised.
Maybe she valued faithfulness too highly? Family life? Depression?
Maybe the suicide seemed like the apotheosis (if that's the word) of her literary work?Pity holds the ambivalent place it does because it is a dangerous emotion, I guess. Justified, but sometimes unhelpful.
Do you mean you remain in your marriage because of fear and guilt as well (if you don't mind me asking)?
Posted by Joan797 on July 29, 2006, at 20:40:45
In reply to Re: You know what your problem is?, posted by Declan on July 29, 2006, at 13:15:11
I'm afraid of the unknown of divorce.
I'm afraid of the hurt that the kids will feel, and feel guilty that I would even consider it.
I'm afraid of the stalker that my husband will become.
I'm guilty of infidelity.
I'm afraid of losing custody of my children.
I'm afraid of the adults they will become without some of my guidance, athough it's never taken well, and for the most part underminded by my husband.
I'm afraid of having to deal with the social stigma.
I'm afraid of hurting my husband even though I am so mad at him right now I'm crying.
I pity him for his misgivings.
I pity his inability to grow and become a better person.
I pity his inability to learn how damaging his words are to me and the children.
I pity his inability to understand me.I'm a coward full of pity.
But a guilty coward.
Posted by Declan on July 30, 2006, at 3:12:27
In reply to Re: Fear Guilt, posted by Joan797 on July 29, 2006, at 20:40:45
Hey, thanks for that.
How old are your kids?
Posted by Joan797 on July 30, 2006, at 8:30:14
In reply to Re: Fear Guilt, posted by Declan on July 30, 2006, at 3:12:27
3 teenagers
Posted by Declan on July 30, 2006, at 14:39:57
In reply to Re: Fear Guilt » Declan, posted by Joan797 on July 30, 2006, at 8:30:14
Do you feel like you've chosen to be in the situation you are in?
I'm trying to say that it would be better for me in your situation if I could feel that I had chosen to be in that situation (with all its problems)rather than just having been trapped there.
I'm working on this myself without conspicuous success.
Posted by Joan797 on July 30, 2006, at 19:49:31
In reply to Ambivalence » Joan797, posted by Declan on July 30, 2006, at 14:39:57
I'd like to pretend that I woke up one day and found myself playing a character part in a bad dream, and therefore had absolutely no choice in the matter of my so called life.
However, I did make this bed. I made choices that I now later regret, but they were my choices all the same.
You know, I keep recalling the horrific fight we had on out honeymoon. And even before that, the multitude of times we broke up before we got married. Those were the clues I CHOSE to ignore.
This is my fault, and the realization of that is somehow my driving force to stay put. I did this to myself, so therefore, I deserve what I get.
Posted by Declan on July 31, 2006, at 1:45:16
In reply to Re: Ambivalence » Declan, posted by Joan797 on July 30, 2006, at 19:49:31
On days like today the thought that the rest of this precious life will be spent like this fills me with such dismay I feel very strange.
It's quite physical; I suppose it's depression. Like something wonderful has died inside me, and all I am left with is agitation.
What a mess it all is. What on earth can you say?
Clearly not 'buck up old bean'.
Posted by Joan797 on July 31, 2006, at 7:56:04
In reply to This is a reply to your post » Joan797, posted by Declan on July 31, 2006, at 1:45:16
I have felt like that/this everyday for so many days, months, years, that I guess I just can't see anything else. It's agitating and wearing on my soul. I used to say, "I'm waiting for my next life to begin" Now I know it's not going to unless I take the initiative, which I guess I don't have the gumption to do.
Ho Hum. My depression is quite cripling in every sense of the word.
Posted by Declan on July 31, 2006, at 14:21:30
In reply to Re: This is a reply to your post, posted by Joan797 on July 31, 2006, at 7:56:04
Still, somehow or other I would be trying to find a way to either leave the situation, or stay in it voluntarily (ie not feel trapped).
Some people resolve these situations by being ruthless (I would call it) or maybe it's just being clear headed.
But if you're not like that, you have to find other ways.One thing I am sure of.
I cannot think of anything worse than spending my life with someone, and all we have to show for it in the end is contempt for each other.
What could be worse than that?
Posted by susan47 on July 31, 2006, at 19:15:28
In reply to Re: Fear Guilt, posted by Joan797 on July 29, 2006, at 20:40:45
> I'm afraid of the unknown of divorce.
> I'm afraid of the hurt that the kids will feel, and feel guilty that I would even consider it.
> I'm afraid of the stalker that my husband will become.
> I'm guilty of infidelity.
> I'm afraid of losing custody of my children.
> I'm afraid of the adults they will become without some of my guidance, athough it's never taken well, and for the most part underminded by my husband.
> I'm afraid of having to deal with the social stigma.
> I'm afraid of hurting my husband even though I am so mad at him right now I'm crying.
> I pity him for his misgivings.
> I pity his inability to grow and become a better person.
> I pity his inability to learn how damaging his words are to me and the children.
> I pity his inability to understand me.
>
> I'm a coward full of pity.
> But a guilty coward.I did it. I left. It hurts like hell. It's horrible. It's lonely. I realized for the first time that he really had been a friend to me, as much as he was my enemy. I cried, I was lonely, I was alone, I was scared, I didn't have enough money to live, really, and I'd lost my children. I remembered how detached I was from them, I realized after leaving, how strong my detachment was. Why I'd kept them from going to school in the first years.
I was so alone, so guilty, so frightened, so "inlove" with my T, so f*cked up, I was unbelievably f*cked, and I really still am, only in a different way now.
Joan, I hope you're listening. I hope you're reading. I hope you're understanding that it was horrible, and if I had the chance to live it over again, I'd probably do the exact same thing I did, only much, much earlier. And I would have taken my kids before they'd been poisoned against me, even though I was the poisoner as well as the poisonee. I mean, I would have taken them when they were younger, I would have kept custody.. I think. I don't know. Because really, there is joint custody but you see that doesn't matter. Who they live with, who they feel sorry for, that is what matters, for a long time. But it does get easier, it just takes an extreme amount of patience and loving.
And I would be easier and gentler on myself and the whole world if I could do it again. Because I'd see the reasons behind why things are the way they are, and what makes us do all the things we do and interact in the ways that we do ... I'd see that there are reasons why I lived my life the way I did, and I don't need to be sad about that because actually, I made my sacrifices too and they were honourable, and I did the best I could with what I had ... and it does get easier. And even though the worst fear was creating that rift between myself and my children (actually just Widening the rift, as I didn't recognize at the time how much it already was there) ... I did it. I made a huge, huge leap into an uncertain future. It was horrible. It was hard. But it made me free.
I have to tell you, that freedom is the loneliest, most frightening thing I've ever had to face. I've made so many mistakes and screw-ups I could write a book. And sometimes the question is just, do I write or do I throw myself off my 4-th floor balcony? WOuld that just damage me, or would it finally just end the whole fuckin' thing? It's a question. The answer comes to me moment to moment, day by day, and I just hope the survivor part of me learns to be strong. Very strong. Because strength is something I have to build on over and over and over again.
Posted by susan47 on July 31, 2006, at 19:26:05
In reply to Re: Ambivalence » Declan, posted by Joan797 on July 30, 2006, at 19:49:31
> I'd like to pretend that I woke up one day and found myself playing a character part in a bad dream, and therefore had absolutely no choice in the matter of my so called life.
>
> However, I did make this bed. I made choices that I now later regret, but they were my choices all the same.
>
> You know, I keep recalling the horrific fight we had on out honeymoon. And even before that, the multitude of times we broke up before we got married. Those were the clues I CHOSE to ignore.
>
> This is my fault, and the realization of that is somehow my driving force to stay put. I did this to myself, so therefore, I deserve what I get.
>
You took responsibility for the situation. Great.
Can you take responsibility for creating a new situation or do you want to live with what you got, forever? Do you want to change what you've got or what? What? What??? Maybe, feel helpless a little longer. Maybe, forever. Or maybe not. It's all choices, the whole damn thing, and when you feel helpless, making a choice is not easily done at all.. we Know That One... I think being with a therapist at that time really helped me do what I'd always known I had to do.
But waited so long, almost waited too long. I don't know. I don't know. When IS the right time?
This is the end of the thread.
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