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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by AdaGrace on April 25, 2005, at 11:13:04
You, Him, Them, Us
Everyone swirls in circles in my head.
Answers evade.
Questions abound.I cannot understand what the unstable mind twists into a massive ball of tangled threads.
Excape from the turmoil is often a detriment in itself.
Who am I if not for you, him, them, us.
What am I, for that matter?There are others in me who deal with all of you separately.
The stable queen of us all sometimes falters and the gates open.
They escape.
One by one they appear.
They make their presence known, in different stages of the turmoil.The temptress is the one I admire the most.
She is confident with herself, beautiful, sexy, provocative.
Not a care in the world.
You bring out the naughtyness in her.
She likes the new experiences you bring.
She's daring, carefree, and sometimes careless.
She relives her youth, the youth I wanted to have, but didn't.
She finds herself surrounded by friends, and boy does she have fun.
She makes people laugh.
They flock to her like moths to a flame.
She burns many, and warms the rest who are willing to risk the consequences.
She smokes too much, she drinks too much, and she loves too much.
Excess is not a word she cares to use.
She sucks at life like a fish gasping for air in a murky oily world.
I like her.
Oh how I'd love to be her all the time.
You like her too.
She's good to you.
She's good for you.
She is me.
I am her.There is also the raging, hormonally f*cked up one.
The pre-menopausal, head spinning, projectile vometing b*tch who hates what is happening to her body and takes it out on everyone in her path.
She screams.
She cries.
She rants.
She hates herself and God who is crueling withering her womb.
She hates what time is doing to her, and she rebels the only way she knows how.
She doesn't understand.
She doesn't care.
She hates men for not having to go through what she does.
She drinks too much, she smokes too much, and she yells way, way, too much.
You hate her, but she won't go away.
I don't like her, but yet I am her, and therefore must protect her from those who do not understand.
She is me.
I am her.
Then of course there is the wounded sparrow.
She wants love desparately.
She often searches for it in the wrong places.
He shot her through the heart, and she has yet to recover.
He took her love.
She was afraid to give it, but he coaxed it out of her.
He promissed the moon to her with beautiful words.
He boosted her confidence only to take it all away.
She no longer exists in that form, that pretty little finch became a sparrow overnight.
She cries at night.
She hides during the day.
She wants everyone she meets to be him.
She fears everyone will eventually become him.
She does not trust.
She does not smile.
She drinks too much, she smokes too much, and she hurts soooo much.
She exists in a black painful world.
She lives, but she is not alive.
I am embarassed of her.
You can't stand her, she brings you down.
She is me.
I am her.The maniac driving us all slowly insane is also within.
The maniac has a concious.
Yet has no clue how to express it.
She tries desperately to stop the madness of us all, but in the process only makes things worse.
She cannot control the demons that haunt our souls, because she is the demon.
She drinks to control the madness, but the madness requires the drink.
I am afraid of her.
Afraid of her abilities.
Afraid she will eventually control.
She offers a padded cell, medicine to make us all go away, even herself, and of course she thinks she offers peace.
She thinks if she could only gain control, she could cure us all.
She wants us to live inside her, hidden from you, him, and them.
You don't really know she exists.
You have only seen bits of her in the rest of us.The queen, the mother of them/us all, reigns with protective wings.
She tries to control in an uncontrollable environment.
She has too much to do.
She takes "Mother's Little Helpers" to just get by.
She works hard at making everyone happy.
She makes it work most of the time.
She fails sometimes when things get to clustered in her mind.
She loses track of who is who, what is what, and where the tranquility of saneness is, when she cannot control every one so that she can function in the world.
She works, she toils, she bears the financial burdon, and yet, she is losing the control she craves.
We are a heavy load for her, and she can't keep up.
She fears she is losing the battle.
She drinks too much, she smokes too much, and she worries way too much.She is me.
I am her.
I am them.I am her and she is me and we are them and we just dissagree..........
AdaGrace
04/25/05
Posted by sunny10 on April 25, 2005, at 12:42:49
In reply to You, Him, Them, Us, posted by AdaGrace on April 25, 2005, at 11:13:04
I read your poem and saw a lot of myself there... the only one I don't know is the one who is allowed to drink to oblivion.
MY queen would never allow a drinker... yours seems more forgiving than mine. I have spent so many years on this roller coaster of "nurture AND nature" Major Depressive Disorder; sane for some time, then out of control; disassociative, et cetera. My queen allows for no more "lack of self-control" than the disorder already brings me. My queen actually makes my body throw up rather than keep the alcohol (more than two glasses of wine) in my system and risk a lack of control!!
Please keep your selves safe.
The sparrow will, in time, come to find peace and be able to recall the good times with fondness.
Time also will soothe the hormonal one. This is not something your queen can control.
The sexpot can get your mind, heart, and body in trouble; but you already know that...
The maniac will create more chaos than it "soothes", if you can let the queen have a little more control of the maniac and not let her drink so much, perhaps she won't need the "mother's little helpers" so much during the day. My ex-husband's maniac got out of control with drink; then his "king" stepped in with the uppers to combat the downer that alcohol is. He got so caught up in the chemical cycle that he lost control of everything, eventually. If you are still "in somewhat control" of the chemical cycling, please do all you can to stop the cycle. It is a dangerous one.
I know that my response is a pragmatic, logical one that may feel very uncaring of your emotional state, but I do care. And I feel that the emotional state is being exaserbated by the chemicals, honey, I really do. If you can EASE your pain a litle bit by controlling the chemical cycle, perhaps you can get to the point that you can start doing some healing for your sparrow so that you can feel better. It would definitely help to feel less fragmented, wouldn't it? I do understand about being fragmented. I have been a wounded sparrow more times than I care to admit (I'm pathetic, really) and have had to be different people for different reasons and then end up isolating because I didn't take care of the sparrow and help her heal. And as she is the heart and soul of me, it I found that for me it was IMPERATIVE to stop everything else and heal HER so that I could stop myself from bringing out the sexpot to "make myself feel attractive and loveable" and stop MY maiac from disassociation, et cetera (and, from your poem, I would say she is the heart and soul of you, as well)that is why I chose to reply to your poem this way BECAUSE I care, not because I want to tell you what to do...
Wish I could give you a real hug, but cyberhugs will have to do...
(((((((((((((AdaGrace))))))))))))))))
Love,
sunny10
Posted by AdaGrace on April 25, 2005, at 19:32:12
In reply to Re: You, Him, Them, Us, posted by sunny10 on April 25, 2005, at 12:42:49
Thank you for understanding.
Thank you for caring.
Thank you for the advice....I am not offended.
Most of all thank you for taking the time to really really understand what I am saying, in a time when you are going through your own things........it means a lot.AdaGrace
Posted by sunny10 on April 26, 2005, at 14:03:14
In reply to Re: You, Him, Them, Us » sunny10, posted by AdaGrace on April 25, 2005, at 19:32:12
that's what we're all here for, AdaGrace, to help and to get help.
I treasure you,
sunny10
Posted by AdaGrace on April 26, 2005, at 17:23:43
In reply to Re: You, Him, Them, Us » AdaGrace, posted by sunny10 on April 26, 2005, at 14:03:14
I somehow think that last line should end with Coo, Coo, Coo, Ka Choo
Posted by AdaGrace on April 26, 2005, at 17:25:06
In reply to Re: Coo Coo Coo Ka Choo, posted by AdaGrace on April 26, 2005, at 17:23:43
Posted by Damos on April 26, 2005, at 17:26:24
In reply to You, Him, Them, Us, posted by AdaGrace on April 25, 2005, at 11:13:04
If they are apart of you then we love them all. openly, unconditionally, as best we can, because we love and cherish you ADA.
Woefully inadequate Damos
Posted by AdaGrace on April 26, 2005, at 17:26:37
In reply to Re: I Am The Walrus???? (nm) » AdaGrace, posted by AdaGrace on April 26, 2005, at 17:25:06
She smokes and drinks and don't come home at night......
What song is that line from anyway?
It plays in my head every single day....
Ahh the temptress, she has a twisted sense of humor.
Posted by AdaGrace on April 26, 2005, at 17:28:38
In reply to Re: You, Him, Them, Us » AdaGrace, posted by Damos on April 26, 2005, at 17:26:24
AAhhhh that was sweet Damos, you are such a kind hearted person.
However, don't you see? We cannot cohabitate this body like this forever. One is bound to eventually take control. It cannot be this way forever. The sad thing is, none of them really, really needs to be in charge. And if not, the who is? Who is left?
Posted by Damos on April 26, 2005, at 18:25:38
In reply to Re: You, Him, Them, Us » Damos, posted by AdaGrace on April 26, 2005, at 17:28:38
> AAhhhh that was sweet Damos, you are such a kind hearted person.
The only response that comes to mind is Bollocks. But that's probably inappropriate.
> However, don't you see? We cannot cohabitate this body like this forever. One is bound to eventually take control. It cannot be this way forever. The sad thing is, none of them really, really needs to be in charge. And if not, the who is? Who is left?Yeah I do see and I feel the terrible pain and fear in the words above. I read your post so many times feeling each of you and looking deep inside myself. I don't know, I honestly don't know. Maybe the answer doesn't lie in one or the other or what is left. Maybe it lies in what becomes. Maybe, none needs or wants to be in control because they know on a deeper level that there is a truer you that is beyond all of them. Maybe they need to become like a circle of friends that you have grown out of and moved on from because you're reaching for something else that only you can know.
I suspect that Gracie is someone who is so much more than any of these people and immensely beautiful, capable and powerful. It's just a feeling.
I know what it's like to not know who you are and to fear that if you let go of all the characters that there'll be nothing left. I'm also realising how difficult it is to let the true me be. I know I am not what anyone sees, I am so much more and at the same time so much less and so untouchable and unreachable to myself.
Between you and me I see know equivalent of the temptress in me and I know the maniac though he has never seen the light of day, he scares me terribly because I know he is there just waiting.
Sorry to ramble so long.
Love you Gracie.
Posted by AdaGrace on April 26, 2005, at 23:33:18
In reply to Re: You, Him, Them, Us » AdaGrace, posted by Damos on April 26, 2005, at 18:25:38
I'm afraid to let go of any of them.. They are a part of me, it's just that it seems they are more than me sometimes. Like I am living outside my body. Looking down on these fools trying to survive in an unsurvival world. We all die sometime. I don't know. I don't know who I am, who I want to be, or even who I was. It's as if this painful relationship loss has killed me inside. Taken away the personality that was me, and replaced it with the many listed above.
Posted by Damos on April 27, 2005, at 1:21:25
In reply to Re: You, Him, Them, Us, posted by AdaGrace on April 26, 2005, at 23:33:18
I'm very afraid for you Gracie because what you are describing sounds like my last major episode the only difference being I saw nothing just emptiness.
It was like finally seeing the truth of my relationship with Katie's mum vaporised all that had ever or would ever be me. I was looking out of and into a hollow shell.
I almost hate to ask but are you getting the medical support you need, medication, therapy etc? G*d I wish I knew something that might help or could just be there IRL so we could really talk. Let me think and look and see what I can find. Maybe Alex would be good to ask as she really understands this stuff and wrote a lot about it a while back. Just please know that I'm holding you in my heart right now and will do anything I can to help.
(((((AdaGrace)))))
Posted by sunny10 on April 27, 2005, at 9:25:30
In reply to Re: You, Him, Them, Us » AdaGrace, posted by Damos on April 27, 2005, at 1:21:25
perhaps as Damos has said that you can "keep" all our yourself, but let them "become" more healthy?
I think what Damos was saying is that when each part becomes fully realized, the sum of those parts will become the fully integrated AdaGrace that we know is trapped inside right now.
We love all of your parts- none needs to disappear. That might make you less than complete. But when all of those parts are HEALTHY?!?!?! You would become the most well-rounded, stable individual we know!!!
Some of us are a bit envious of you, I think. It seems that it might be easier to heal parts that have gone astray than to fully create parts that we are missing to begin with...
This is a tough time for you, AdaGrace. We will be here for you to help you through, okay?
many healing hugs and fond kisses,
sunny10
Posted by Damos on April 27, 2005, at 19:10:24
In reply to Re: You, Him, Them, Us » AdaGrace, posted by Damos on April 27, 2005, at 1:21:25
Hi Gracie,
Hope you're doing a little better today.
Sunny's last post was on the right track and kinda what I was getting at. Before I go any further you need to know that any answers you find for yourself will be worth 10 times what I or anyone says. I also need to apologise for not knowing your story better than I do and for having the memory of a Goldfish since my last episode and being on the Efexor XR. I have also never had any therapy or counselling and only a limited understanding of both. Okay all that having been said, I can only speak form my own experience, so please forgive me I am speaking totally 'out of my *ss'.
Grace, I don't believe what you are experiencing is necessarily so unusual, it may be way off at the extreme end of the reactions to a serious loss. I know in my own case that I can tend to invest my whole heart and soul and the very essense of my being into a relationship and to assign everything that happens in that relationship a value and importance way out of proportion to reality. I also know that I can build this other person up into something so much more than they are or in truth could ever be. From what I understand people with depression and other personality disorders have a tendency to do this to a greater extent than the general population. It is because we invest so very much in these relationship and these people that the experience of loss can be so much more devastating and enduring and sadly accompanyied by a sense of our total badness - and I know this to be true at least in my case.
From what I understand, under extreme circumstances where a relationship or person was seen as essential it is not uncommon to engage in dangerous and/or impulsive acts more often than not associated with the drugs and/or alcohol. The internal logic seeming to be to numb the panic created by the loss and to initiate social contacts to ward off the sense of aloneness. Apparently fights and promiscuity often occur under these circumstances ably assisted by the effects of the drugs and alcohol. Only you can know if any of this is true for you. All of these thing seem to be the selfs desperate effort to create contact and some illusion as to having control over some new thing in place that which has been lost. One step beyond this are dissociative episodes in which we try to detach from the physical distress we are feeling or the situation we find ourselves in that is causing the unbearable distress. My understanding is that this can in the end lead to psychotic depression.
As Lama Surya Das says, "Loss is the great equaliser that reminds us that we are not omnipotent; it helps crack open our defensive shell of invulnerability and denial. It helps us see the ways we avoid the truth of our human frailty and rely on a false sense of control."
"We hate the idea of loss because we know what loss represents.
Loss = pain. Loss = suffering, Loss = unhappiness.We cry because of our losses; we despair and become depressed because of our losses; we lose hope because of our losses. We are haunted by our losses and we often define ourselves by our losses. But, and this is an important but, we are also strengthened by our losses..... Almost by definition loss is transformative."
When we are recovering from any loss, we need to find a way to reconnect with out basic sanity and our essential authentic self. We need to find the ways to heal and put ourselve back together again. We need to be re-grounded and to centre ourselves and return home to our innermost being. Sadly the longer we take to do this, the more separate from our self we become, the longer and more difficult the journey home. imagine for a moment someone threw in a car and drove you to the end of the street and tossed you out. You could probably find your way home relatively easily. But what if you were drugged and came to in totally unfamiliar surroundings, how much harder would it be then. This is where I fear you are. If you feel that way too then I have attached some links below to some grounding excercises all of which I have used at various times and really believe help to at least start the journey home. Right now it seems as though your physical, spiritual, mental and emotional selves are totally dis-integrated (broken apart) and you need to find a way to begin to bring them back together. Doing this will also help calm the endless chatter in you head (something I constantly struggle with). Only once you begin to feel grounded again can you really begin to re-integrate the Queen, the Temptress, the Manic, the Sparrow and the woman growing older and begin to discover your true self.
With all the loving kindness I can muster,
Your friend Damos.http://healing.about.com/cs/grounding/a/bodyground.htm
http://www.healinghandsoflight.homestead.com/Grounding_Exercise.html
Posted by AdaGrace on April 28, 2005, at 7:57:53
In reply to You, Him, Them, Us, posted by AdaGrace on April 25, 2005, at 11:13:04
Afraid that one will win out over the other.
It seems impossible for the parts to become a whole.The loss, the loss I experienced is the loss of my soul........I loved with all my heart, and I lost everything when I lost that, including my sanity.
How very sickening to love a man more than your own children, more than your family, and above all more than yourself.
I am sickened by my behavior, yet even today. If he were to call, I would dearly love to talk to him. I'd run to the phone, I'd knock down anyone or thing in my path, I would do anything to get to his voice. I'd hear his promisses and I'd believe them, because I loved completely. I loved so very completely. I was the pedestal upon which he stood in my eyes. How sad. How very sad.
Used, abused, broken, and tosses away.
I was a toy, a plaything, and yet would become that again if given a chance.
I would have done anything for him.
you name it.
I would have done it.
lied, cheated, stole, even killed for him.How very sad that is.
Posted by sunny10 on April 28, 2005, at 11:50:29
In reply to Re: We are afraid, posted by AdaGrace on April 28, 2005, at 7:57:53
I know how that feels, Gracie.
I went back for more many times and destroyed my soul completely. Truthfully, I am still recovering. But I forced myself to begin recovering and remind myself that everything he said to me was lies. He was the bad person; not me.
You are not an object. You are not a toy. You are a beautiful soul who needs to focus on herself right now.
I think that some of the links that Damos gave you will allow you to re-center yourself and regain some of the control that you've lost over your feelings for this man.
Your well-being is important.
The only thing you should allow yourself to be afraid of at this point is sliding deeper into that abyss. Damos and I are holding the ropes, but you need to put hand over hand to pull yourself up by those ropes, okay?!?
We love you and are worried about you.
please...
sunny10
Posted by Damos on April 28, 2005, at 17:51:27
In reply to Re: We are afraid, posted by AdaGrace on April 28, 2005, at 7:57:53
Grace I read this yesterday, does it ring true for you.
Molly's Losses:
"The second is the end of a love relationship with a man who I trusted totally. We had been together for a long time, and he always told me that I was the love of his life. When he split up with me, I had no idea it was coming. I lost him, but I also lost something bigger: I lost my sense of hope and a belief in love. I also lost the capacity to trust. This is a lot to lose. I sometimes feel that since he was the person who took away that trust, he is the only person who can give it back, which I know is foolish, but that's often how I feel."
If you want me to climb down into the abyss and drag you out kicking and screaming that's what I'll do, because we're not going to give you up without a fight because we love and care about you more than you know. And whether you believe it or not you are so much more than your pain, so very much more. I don't have any easy answers for you but am willing to walk beside you down the road to finding them - okay, and Sunny will be there too to keep us on the straight and narrow. But you need to start by loosening your attachment to your loss and we can do that together and there's a whole army of babblers who'll help.
((((((((((AdaGrace))))))))))
Posted by partlycloudy on April 28, 2005, at 17:54:06
In reply to Re: We are afraid, posted by AdaGrace on April 28, 2005, at 7:57:53
Here I am, jumping in again.
AdaGrace, you most certainly can heal and become whole without losing ourselves in the process. It takes such hard work! I am just now revisiting the journalling exercises that helped me so much in the past.
Just getting the stuff out of my brain helps to heal.Damos has very wise words, and good links.
You're the woman with the power to heal, AdaGrace. We're all here to help you in the limited ways we can. I'm sorry I haven't been keeping myself informed by reading this board to realize just how much and how deeply you still hurt.
love,
partlycloudy
Posted by AdaGrace on May 5, 2005, at 17:17:34
In reply to Re: We are afraid » AdaGrace, posted by Damos on April 28, 2005, at 17:51:27
I wasn't able to respond to your post last week, but I've re-read it now. and, yes. What she writes is exactly what I feel. I find it ironic actually that she was told the very same thing I was. That soul mate thing is a load of crap.
I appreciate you though. It makes life more bearable to come here and read posts from people who care.
Thank You
Posted by AdaGrace on May 5, 2005, at 17:18:28
In reply to Re: We are afraid, posted by sunny10 on April 28, 2005, at 11:50:29
Posted by AdaGrace on May 5, 2005, at 17:19:16
In reply to Re: We are afraid, posted by partlycloudy on April 28, 2005, at 17:54:06
Posted by sunny10 on May 6, 2005, at 10:47:03
In reply to Re: I'm getting rope burns. (nm) » sunny10, posted by AdaGrace on May 5, 2005, at 17:18:28
This is the end of the thread.
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