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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 12 to 36 of 36. Go back in thread:
Posted by Damos on February 17, 2005, at 20:30:06
In reply to Re: * I face NZ and pray » Damos, posted by alexandra_k on February 17, 2005, at 20:03:15
Mate, just a figure of speech. Would be too afraid of being struck by lightening to even attempt it =0). I think you could say I'm pretty much a religion free zone.
I'm funny alright - in a wrap around white coat kinda way!
Posted by alexandra_k on February 17, 2005, at 20:35:15
In reply to Re: * I face NZ and pray, posted by Damos on February 17, 2005, at 20:30:06
Yeah, good old Australasian black humour, eh? Though maybe it isn't just an Australasian thing...
Posted by Toph on February 22, 2005, at 18:19:42
In reply to *, posted by alexandra_k on February 17, 2005, at 1:58:18
I don't visit this board much anymore. So, sorry if this is not timely. I won't try to analyze the powerful words but I am struck by this sense that I get from you. I can't decide which side of you impresses me more, the rational alex with the well tuned intellect and the fastidiously organized closet of a mind or the emotive alex with her complexity of pain and compassion, passionate beliefs and humorous wit, courageous interventions and girlish regressions. Its also amzing how well both alexes live with each other harmoneously. Are you as well adjusted, your current and former demons notwithstanding, as you appear to be?
Toph
Posted by alexandra_k on February 22, 2005, at 23:24:46
In reply to Re: * » alexandra_k, posted by Toph on February 22, 2005, at 18:19:42
> I don't visit this board much anymore.
How come??
>So, sorry if this is not timely.
Better late than never ;-)
Thanks Toph. Really. That was a really nice thing to say. I don't think anyone has ever said anything so nice to me before. It has been a long and hard day and now you made me cry. Bless you.
>Are you as well adjusted, your current and former demons notwithstanding, as you appear to be?
Oh hell no. I am most severely f*cked up Toph. Really. Really and truely.
Posted by Toph on March 1, 2005, at 10:38:48
In reply to Re: * » Toph, posted by alexandra_k on February 22, 2005, at 23:24:46
> > I don't visit this board much anymore.
>
> How come??
>
Because every time I try to contibute something, I end up feeling foolish and it takes weeks before it goes away.> >So, sorry if this is not timely.
>
> Better late than never ;-)Here I ask you a very personal question and the next day go on vacation. How's that for timing?
>
> ...I don't think anyone has ever said anything so nice to me before...I don't believe that for a second. I'm certain that you are one of the most respected and most well-liked people here.
>
> >Are you as well adjusted, your current and former demons notwithstanding, as you appear to be?
>
> Oh hell no. I am most severely f*cked up Toph. Really. Really and truely.
>
F*cked up in a good way, I'm sure. Most of the best people I know are f*cked up. And some of the rest are just plain f*ckers.
Posted by Susan47 on March 1, 2005, at 11:02:56
In reply to Re: * » Toph, posted by alexandra_k on February 22, 2005, at 23:24:46
IMO the most severely f*cked up people are the ones who seem to think the deepest. You're beautiful, Alex.
Posted by Susan47 on March 1, 2005, at 11:05:11
In reply to Re: * ! » alexandra_k, posted by Toph on March 1, 2005, at 10:38:48
I really wish you'd quit beating up on yourself, Toph. You're lovely, absolutely lovely. (((Toph))) Let yourself go, you're too frightened, you're beautiful with a deep deep soul and you just need to let all the beauty and the angst express itself, don't be scared. Don't care what anyone thinks about your expressions. Just be. Honey. Mwah.
See, now I feel stupid. Shut up, Susan.
Posted by Toph on March 1, 2005, at 12:57:57
In reply to Re: * ! » Toph, posted by Susan47 on March 1, 2005, at 11:05:11
Do you owe me money or something, susan?
Posted by alexandra_k on March 1, 2005, at 15:36:24
In reply to Re: * ! » alexandra_k, posted by Toph on March 1, 2005, at 10:38:48
> Because every time I try to contibute something, I end up feeling foolish and it takes weeks before it goes away.
Oh Toph. You are appreciated. Please come back to us over on Writing...
> Here I ask you a very personal question and the next day go on vacation. How's that for timing?Did you have a good vacation.
Enough with the complements already!
I do not take them well...> F*cked up in a good way, I'm sure.
Heh heh, I try to be ;-)
>Most of the best people I know are f*cked up. And some of the rest are just plain f*ckers.
:-)
Posted by Susan47 on March 1, 2005, at 15:36:38
In reply to Re: * ! » Susan47, posted by Toph on March 1, 2005, at 12:57:57
Quit that, you're being suspicious.. Susan meant every word. :-)
Posted by alexandra_k on March 1, 2005, at 15:36:55
In reply to Re: * » alexandra_k, posted by Susan47 on March 1, 2005, at 11:02:56
I think you are beautiful too Susan.
You are a deep well...
Posted by alexandra_k on March 1, 2005, at 15:37:36
In reply to Re: * ! » Susan47, posted by Toph on March 1, 2005, at 12:57:57
Posted by Toph on March 1, 2005, at 16:49:43
In reply to Re: * ! » Toph, posted by alexandra_k on March 1, 2005, at 15:36:24
>
> Did you have a good vacation?
>Thank you for asking.(So this won't get booted off PBW):
Once upon a time, I went skiing with my son, Matthew because he thinks we don't care about him anymore. He has been kind of narcissistic which is kind of like describing your average young male. I was always frustrated with him not calling home, forgeting birthdays, not ever saying thank you, never calling his sisters at college, being so defensive about any criticism, not appreciating his step-mother who raised him as if he were his own, the repetitive lying, even confronted with irrefutable proof,his dishonesty with girlfriends, stuff like that. I would feel ashamed that I didn't always like my own son.
So, I fly to Denver for 4 days of skiing with Matthew hoping for some bonding. It was mostly a good experience. Mainly I learned a lot about my son that I should have know but had to witness first hand. He is an incredibly independent young man. He lives with 5 other guys whom he proudly introduced me to. They are his age and graduating soon. (Matthew had to work a couple years to establis Colorado residency)
I have to quit now I now because I have 2 minutes left on my library computer ttime I'll sign on again and finish
Posted by Toph on March 1, 2005, at 17:15:10
In reply to Re: * !, posted by Toph on March 1, 2005, at 16:49:43
>
> >
> > Did you have a good vacation?
> >
>
> Thank you for asking.(So this won't get booted off PBW):
>
> Once upon a time, I went skiing with my son, Matthew because he thinks we don't care about him anymore. He has been kind of narcissistic which is kind of like describing your average young male. I was always frustrated with him not calling home, forgeting birthdays, not ever saying thank you, never calling his sisters at college, being so defensive about any criticism, not appreciating his step-mother who raised him as if he were his own, the repetitive lying, even confronted with irrefutable proof,his dishonesty with girlfriends, stuff like that. I would feel ashamed that I didn't always like my own son.
>
> So, I fly to Denver for 4 days of skiing with Matthew hoping for some bonding. It was mostly a good experience. Mainly I learned a lot about my son that I should have know but had to witness first hand. He is an incredibly independent young man. He lives with 5 other guys whom he proudly introduced me to. They are his age and graduating soon. (Matthew had to work a couple years to establis Colorado residency)
>
By becoming a Coloradan it saves $20,000 off out-of-state tuition. Anyway, we went to the bar where he is a bartender and all these people came up to Matthew and he introduced me to them all. We drank beer, played darts, told bad jokes, had fun. Drinking with your kid for the first time instead of yelling at him for having a party when you are away is kind of cool, actually.The next day we head up to Breckenridge staying at a friend's condo for $100/night (normally would have cost triple that). I rent skis and we head up to the top of the mountain. I'm pretty good but I make GS turns while my son goes right down the fall line making rapid turns like he's a hula girl or something. I have to stop 5 or 6 times because they have some sort of oxygen shortage in Colorado. Also my thighs are burning like Atlas. So Matthew (I call him Budweiser or Bud for short, Budweiser when he was at the plate batting and all the mothers thought I named my son after a beer) would stop periodically out of pity and just when I'd catch up to him the bastard would take off again (after calling me an old f*rt or something else equally endearing). On the chair lift we'd argue who was better - I'd say that technically I was a better skier and he'd basically say that I ski like a girl. So I'd say tell that to Picabo Steaks and he'd say so you're telling me you are worse than a girl. That kind of bonding.
I know this is kind of disjointed and probably more than you wanted to know anyway, but I haven't really gotten to the good part yet and I've got to go pick up my wife from work so I'll finish later if you don't mind. This could be days from now cause she hates it when I'm on the computer at home. Bye
Posted by Susan47 on March 1, 2005, at 18:56:44
In reply to Chapter 2, posted by Toph on March 1, 2005, at 17:15:10
I was really enjoying that, Toph. I see you being guys together.
Posted by alexandra_k on March 1, 2005, at 19:21:24
In reply to Re: Chapter 2, posted by Susan47 on March 1, 2005, at 18:56:44
Yeah Toph, well done.
PS you didn't ever have to not like him, just not like some of his behaviour...;-)
Posted by Toph on March 1, 2005, at 21:59:16
In reply to Chapter 2, posted by Toph on March 1, 2005, at 17:15:10
So I make a big mistake. I say, Matthew I hope you really apply yourself in trying to be a physical therapist because you don't want to end up being a bartender the rest of your life. What I meant was that I love you and I think you could be whatever you want, but he hears, Matthew you are a stupid bartender and I want you to be a physical therapist so you can make a lot of money. We are 100 ft off the ground in a chair lift and I have plunged a mortal wound into my son's heart. We didn't really talk much for two days, a male thing, at least in my family. I make him breakfast every morning which he kind of appreciates I guess, because he scarfs it down. I start getting my wind and my body starts to strengthen so I begin to keep up with him more on the mountain. I swallow my pride and confess that his skiing fast straight down the precipice takes greater skill than my making pretty turns which is is almost like admitting that he is better than me. We go out every night for dinner which is exorbitant. I begin to notice that we aren't laughing much. A weird aside, I'm sitting on a chairlift with a whole world of white capped mountains and gorgeous blue sky all around us, on vacation with no pressures from work, and damn if I don't start thinking about people I've never even met. Yeah, you guys. Is that sick or what?
On the way to the airport, I think about what important things needed to be said before we part for a long time. I explain that I wanted to clear the air about the whole bartending thing. I tell him that I just want him to follow his dreams and to do well at whatever comes his way. I tell him that I was so very impressed at how independent he is, surrounded by good friends, performing well in school, and trusted and appreciated by his employer. I told him that he has apparently a terrific girlfriend who must care for him a lot (they call each other at least twice per day). She lives in Los Angeles and works as a production assistant but wants to be an actress. All the while I'm talking, he doesn't say anything which makes me think he doesn't really care about what I am saying. Then when we arrive at the terminal he turns and says, Dad I'm really glad you came. I know this was expensive, thanks, I had a good time. So I said, I love you, Matthew. And he says, I love you too, Dad. He spreads his arms out to give me a hug (not something done by males in my family) and we embrace which isn't easy to do in his little Corolla. I slept soundly all the way back to Chicago.
It's amazing to me how we screw up the things we care the most about. And its amazing how taking the risk of admitting our failings and weaknesses can mend a world of hurt. I would have held old misconceptions about my son as selfish and immature had I not seen his growth first hand.
It's a sobering experience when your kid teaches you a thing or two about yourself.
Toph
Posted by Susan47 on March 1, 2005, at 22:26:27
In reply to Re: Chapter 3, posted by Toph on March 1, 2005, at 21:59:16
Yes, I have those experiences with my youngest children, they're eight and ten, but I hurt their trust in themselves sometimes by saying the wrong thing. That used to make me angry with myself, then I'd be super quiet and it would make everything worse for them; when I finally realized that, then I learned to talk about the thing I'd said that caused the discord. And they were healed, and happy right away. It's nice that you can do that now; some parents never achieve that with their kids, so you're ahead of the game. I'll bet your son really trusts you. You had an awesome weekend in the end, didn't you. Because you put your heart out there and you trusted your son with it, and he gave you his heart, his trust, in return. Go, Toph. Here, let me be your cheerleader :-) you're awesome. Would you be my dad?
Posted by Toph on March 1, 2005, at 22:53:15
In reply to Re: Chapter 3, posted by Susan47 on March 1, 2005, at 22:26:27
>You had an awesome weekend in the end, didn't you?. Because you put your heart out there and you trusted your son with it, and he gave you his heart, his trust, in return...
Thanks susan. I kind of focused on the good parts, the positive changes I saw in my son. Truth be told, I have so many regrets as a father, too many to list. I just wanted you to know that I was so relieved that he is turning out OK dispite me.
>Go, Toph... Would you be my dad?
Sure, but I'm strict, bad girls must be spanked.
Posted by alexandra_k on March 2, 2005, at 0:35:39
In reply to Re: Chapter 3, posted by Toph on March 1, 2005, at 22:53:15
Oh Toph, well done.
Part of me wants to go TWO DAYS you moron! And slap you on the back of the head - but you got there in the end and it was hard for you.WELL DONE TOPH!
You know how much you want the approval of others (eg your dad, us, dr-bob)??? Well your son just wants approval from you. He was probably so very pleased that you said what you did in the end - that is probably all he really wants to hear from you you know.
Well done.
It might not hurt to call him occasionally...
Ask him how he is going.
Tell him you are proud of him.
One can never hear that too much - eh?
Posted by Toph on March 2, 2005, at 7:51:10
In reply to Re: Chapter 3 » Toph, posted by alexandra_k on March 2, 2005, at 0:35:39
I'm so flattered alex that you know me so well. Everyone tells me what a good Dad I have been for taking care of them while my first wife was at work, for staying at home during her affair, for seeing them four out of 7 days when I left, for not turning them against their mom, for waiting until they chose to want to live with me when I could have forced them because I was so desperate for them to come top me, for choosing a second wife who, dispite loving so much, would have left her if she couldn't also love my children. But it seems I will never forgive myself for getting sick and being immature and controlling and somehow so unattractive that my first wife stopped loving me, so that I had to leave that little boy who loved me more than life itself and who has lasting problems because he felt it was his fault no matter what everyone repeatedly told him. I can't express to you how painful it is to wriite this. No child should ever have to suffer such a wound that gets better but never heals.
No here's what is worse. After he learned to live with the pain, resentment began to surface. Being stupid I tried to control him. I lived vicariously through his baseball. To be honest, he chose baseball not me. He played it constantly with his friends and even pantomimed hitting his swing incessantly around the house. He became very good and I became overly invested in his success. Was chosen for the travelling team. Out of a hundred kids who had played little leaguge their whole childhood he made the freshman team in high school he got a vasity letter as the starting first basemen as a junior. And then he quit. He fell in love with this beautiful girl and tried to hurt me the most powerful way he could, he walked away from baseball like I had walked away from him. I was too stupid to understand, I only thought of myself and the money he would cost me without a scholarship. He began to drink. I was losing my son but I got hung up in control issues. I was actually driving him away from me. I even underestimated his intelligence. He scored well on his boards despite my lack of confidence in him and he made it into the University of Colorado to get far away from me. When I took him there I couldn't believe how sad it was for me when I had to turn away as he eagerly started school. I felt like such a failure. I can barely type this. Now I see him so independent I am ashamed that I am jealous of him. Oh, I am proud too. He is alright dispite me. I wish I could forgive myself for hurting my son even though I had no other choice. I deserve his resentment and I am incompetent to fix it. I know its not my fault I got sick but nothing will ever make me stop hating myself for being such a failure to the people who needed me most.
Posted by Susan47 on March 2, 2005, at 11:54:48
In reply to Re: Chapter 3, posted by Toph on March 1, 2005, at 22:53:15
Ew, Toph, now you might be bringing out my naughty, naughty side. And I do have one you know. In spite of everything. :-)
Posted by Susan47 on March 2, 2005, at 12:01:40
In reply to kind alex » alexandra_k, posted by Toph on March 2, 2005, at 7:51:10
This is breaking my heart, Toph, I feel that way about the damage in my relationship with my 21 year-old son too. I think if your son really knew how you feel, that you see things now, places where you were wrong, he would heal. I don't believe that thing about never healing. I don't think it's true. If I thought that were true, there would be no hope for me. And I know I can heal; now I have to do it without my father, but I can tell you that it would have been much easier to heal and I would've healed much sooner had my father been of the same mindset that you are, and HAD COMMUNICATED THAT WITH ME. Sorry to yell. I'll bet when you're honest with your son about your self-knowledge, you won't need to feel like you have to impress anybody because you will have done the thing your heart really needs to do.
And now I'll get off my soapbox, feel free to spank me if you think I've been bad.
Posted by alexandra_k on March 2, 2005, at 20:37:44
In reply to kind alex » alexandra_k, posted by Toph on March 2, 2005, at 7:51:10
Oh Toph, that was beautiful, except for this bit. You need to work on this bit:
>Now I see him so independent I am ashamed that I am jealous of him. Oh, I am proud too.
You don't need to feel jealous, just proud. You notice all the things 'from the outside' his friends etc. But how he feels on the inside might be more like you than you can imagine. I mean, you have a lot of friends on these boards, right ;-) But that doesn't change the feeling on the inside all that much...
>He is alright dispite me. I wish I could forgive myself for hurting my son even though I had no other choice. I deserve his resentment and I am incompetent to fix it. I know its not my fault I got sick but nothing will ever make me stop hating myself for being such a failure to the people who needed me most.
You can't change the past.
But you can act different in the future.
It isn't too late, Toph.
If you told him a little of this he might understand.
He might forgive you.
All I ever wanted from my Dad was for him to be proud of me.
I don't know.
It isn't too late.
You did really well.
:-)
Posted by Toph on March 2, 2005, at 22:36:22
In reply to Re: kind alex » Toph, posted by alexandra_k on March 2, 2005, at 20:37:44
Thanks again alex. I want to say that the male side of my family has been handicapped for generations in expressing love. I really can't understand how easy it was to love that little boy and how difficult it is to show him that I love him now. I really sense somehow that my guilt feeling are somehow an obstacle. My wife demonstrates her unrestrained adoration of my step-daughter as much now as ever (though Audra wishes she would back off a little now that she is in college).
As for the friends part, I am ashamed to admit that I don't have many. I was popular in high school and maintain a relationship today with a buddy on the swim team. But the ten years I bounced in and out of the hospital somehow crippled me from having friends. Most of the women at work care about me very much but I don't do anything social with them or their families. Most of my friends are my wife's friends who like me but really are there to be with her. So, in relation to Matthew, I think I am so envious of his ease of making good friends. Its funny (and sad) that I had friends as an adolescent and not now while Matthew hated the high school shallowness and bloomed in college.
alex, I was really sorry to find out for the first time that you were so despondent at one time. Many very beautiful things on this Earth are as fragile as a snowflake while having the potential of being as strong as an avalanche.
Toph
This is the end of the thread.
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