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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dr. Bob on October 15, 2014, at 0:04:08
In reply to Re: the Book of Job » alexandra_k, posted by Toph on October 4, 2014, at 11:36:33
> my childhood Christian indoctrination manifests itself in recessive fear, guilt and anxiety from my lack of faith. I thought that compelling evidence contradicting a benevolent God, reason, and irrefutable science would extinguish these nagging doubts, but the grim threat of eternal damnation is a cruel bogeyman indeed.
I guess those doubts could be seen as anxieties. Anybody else have eternal damnation anxiety?
Bob
Posted by Phil on October 15, 2014, at 14:39:20
In reply to Re: eternal damnation, posted by Dr. Bob on October 15, 2014, at 0:04:08
Hell no. :) Those stories, for me are total unproven fiction that reads like a book in the 6th grade. I've known reprobates that died and the preachers, every single time said he's in heaven now with his family. The only heaven I've known is dodging family. They use it to make you feel that, though that guy died, he's in a "better place." Really? Six feet under is not a better place. They Bible lost me at the talking snake hour. LOL It's very comforting but when I'm told to "trust me" and have faith, it's a joke. Either you're there or you're not.
Going by the Bible, all of my friends and family are in hell."Go to heaven for the weather, go to hell for the company."
Posted by Angela2 on October 15, 2014, at 16:03:13
In reply to Re: eternal damnation, posted by Dr. Bob on October 15, 2014, at 0:04:08
Not really.
I...was brought up Catholic. Now I consider myself spiritual. possibly agnostic...open to believing etc. Actually, I do think there are many things that we don't know and understand...I mean...I think...there may be things that science can't explain. Or, there may be things that science needs to recognize from the spiritual world, or, from a place that is not seen. I do think about it sometimes, actually, like when I see scary movies about possessed people, and it's based on a "true story" Oooooo. That kind of stuff actually does scare me. Ghost stories and the like. But I don't know...I don't know what comes after this life. And I don't think about it much. And a part of me finds it ironic that I just wrote that, because I used to be terrified of death and dying. Because I don't know whats coming after it, and if it's lights out forever, that seems really sad.
Posted by baseball55 on October 15, 2014, at 19:41:13
In reply to Re: eternal damnation, posted by Angela2 on October 15, 2014, at 16:03:13
I believe when you're dead, you're dead. End of story. And it is sad. But life is sad. Death is sad. The human condition is sad.
I don't believe there is a thing called a soul that continues on in some sort of afterlife. I grew up being taught there was, but it never resonated for me and gave me no comfort. I never believed in heaven, hell, god at all, even when I was very young - 6, 7 years old.
The priest at the church we attended when I was small gave weekly sermons about hell and burning for eternity. It made no sense to me then and makes no sense to me now.
I read a few years ago, in either the NY Times or the New Yorker, about a fundamentalist preacher who decided that there could not be a hell. He came to believe that no loving god would create such an awful place and he began preaching this. He was hounded out of the church.
Instilling people with a fear of the horrors of hell is a great way to manipulate and control them.
Has anyone ever read the sermon from James Joyce's Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man? The most grisly fire and brimstone sermon. I used to hear things like it every Sunday morning as a child.
Posted by Angela2 on October 15, 2014, at 22:45:23
In reply to Re: eternal damnation, posted by baseball55 on October 15, 2014, at 19:41:13
>>Instilling people with a fear of the horrors of hell is a great way to manipulate and control them.
Yes it is.
Posted by alexandra_k on October 15, 2014, at 23:43:49
In reply to Re: eternal damnation, posted by Dr. Bob on October 15, 2014, at 0:04:08
I went through a religious phase when I was a teenager. It started out with my really wanting to believe - but having trouble believing. There were a bunch of people and it seemed to me that some of them were decent, really genuine people. But that others of them were hypocrits. And I wanted to believe and be like the former... Not like the latter... But I didn't trust myself really not to be like the latter... And I really didn't believe.
And then I came around to believing. And then later, when I came around to believing that God didn't exist at all... I remember that there was a lag on my emotions. I remember quite some time of feeling awful guilty about things that I didn't believe were wrong anymore. Like smoking. I didn't see what was wrong with it anymore. Or drinking. Or whatever.
Now...
I'm not sure whether I believe death is the end of my consciousness or not... Sometimes I'm something of the pan-psychist. I wonder if as my body... Breaks up... I wonder if my consciousness will disperse in some way. I wonder what that feels like. Sometimes I wonder if being dead might feel like that statiky black and white with that awful noise that the TV used to do after hours. Or how it would feel (I'd imagine) to be weightless in an isotank or something like that. Like I'd imagine floating in space. But the temperature being perfect. That perfect you get at 3am sometimes in Canberra where the external perfectly matches internal or something and you feel that the temperature is distinctly just perfect.
The absence of pain. I used to long for death as being like a dreamless sleep. I don't... QUite long for it, anymore. And I feel less convinced that it will be like that after all. I guess that probably is what I think, though. What it means to be at peace. No... Irritations. No longings. No strivings. Being totally in the moment. The moment being all there is. SOmething becomes everything becomes nothing.
I don't really believe in damnation. Sometimes I feel afraid. I think that mostly that is about my being afraid that on my death bed... Looking back over my life... What have I done? What have I acomplished? Anything of value? I guess kids... Are a way of extending yourself into the future. The thought that some good may come of that at some point... Had come of that already.
I don't know.
Posted by Toph on October 16, 2014, at 9:06:33
In reply to Re: eternal damnation, posted by Dr. Bob on October 15, 2014, at 0:04:08
Posted by alexandra_k on October 16, 2014, at 14:40:41
In reply to Hell, what was I thinking? (nm), posted by Toph on October 16, 2014, at 9:06:33
?
i don't know
what do you mean?
Posted by rjlockhart37 on October 16, 2014, at 20:34:57
In reply to Re: eternal damnation, posted by baseball55 on October 15, 2014, at 19:41:13
yes, i believe in it, i'm just kinda lazy right now and not elaborate, but this is how i see it,
1)knowing supernatural events happen, demonic activity, and healing of sickness by laying hands over people, or being healed by god,
a)been alot of reported demonic possession, inflicted sickness, and the polterguist thing wher things move in the room and lights flicker on and off....
b)seeing people being miraclesly healed of sickness, i would love to post videos of it caught on camera, but this was an actual video i saw, a woman was blind and her eyes where like white....they didnt have pupils, all white and she was blind, later on people where praying and singing ohh the blood of jesus, he washes me as white as snow,.....the lady that was the pastor, or something, she put her hands over her eyes, couple min and praying significatnly, within 10 min the pupils started forming, right on camera, not like a digital effect from a movie, but it was slow but the pupils formed and she got up and walked and could see everyone.....just stuff like that gives hints that there is another higher force, that does love us and will heal, but the thing is, when other people are not healed, and stay sick, that pisses me off too....it's what god are you personally selecting people who you want to heal and forget the others.....really that does not make sense to mebut back, the best way to say it, is it's better to believe in heavan and hell, than to not believe because when someone dies and their spirit leaves their body.....but realize it is real....
so....2 other things that really have pissed me off about believing and nothing happens, "trust me" quoted in scripture, "i will provide all your needs" i wanted to erase that state out the bible and put i will provide all your needs because this is b*llsh*t, and walk off a cliff....but the small thing that's more important, is that someone needs to know there is a god, and on second note, because scripture states that he will save someone from damnation, or the lake of fire, where the devil and evil, hitler, depraved acts of evilness.... will go on judgement day....according to scripture....but, the main thing is to know and acccept and repent of the sin.....and that's the way to get out of it, accpet god into the mind, heart, and release the old ways,
....alot of times when people talk about god, and hell and heavan it does become annoying, and seems like a delusion of control over society, but it is real.....after we die, the spirit leaves the body.....
so.....i don't know, that's just my thoughts, i would write another one with lot's of sources, and videos of people getting healed but just writing my thoughts right now......
Posted by Toph on October 17, 2014, at 18:58:17
In reply to Re: Hell, what was I thinking?, posted by alexandra_k on October 16, 2014, at 14:40:41
I thought maybe it was common among non-believers previously indoctrinated to have a little lingering doubt. I'm hedging my bet that in the unlikely event that there is a judgement day, my lifelong suffering may give me a pass.
Posted by herpills on October 18, 2014, at 17:48:30
In reply to Re: eternal damnation, posted by rjlockhart37 on October 16, 2014, at 20:34:57
> b)seeing people being miraclesly healed of sickness, i would love to post videos of it caught on camera, but this was an actual video i saw, a woman was blind and her eyes where like white....they didnt have pupils, all white and she was blind, later on people where praying and singing ohh the blood of jesus, he washes me as white as snow,.....the lady that was the pastor, or something, she put her hands over her eyes, couple min and praying significatnly, within 10 min the pupils started forming, right on camera, not like a digital effect from a movie, but it was slow but the pupils formed and she got up and walked and could see everyone....
>Probably fake.
Posted by alexandra_k on October 18, 2014, at 18:48:04
In reply to Re: Hell, what was I thinking?, posted by Toph on October 17, 2014, at 18:58:17
> I thought maybe it was common among non-believers previously indoctrinated to have a little lingering doubt. I'm hedging my bet that in the unlikely event that there is a judgement day, my lifelong suffering may give me a pass.
I would have thought that a lot would have. I wasn't raised religious, I just had a religious phase as a teenager. It still took me years to get over fears / doubts that maybe I was wrong about it. Maybe fears will come back as I get older. As death feels closer. Something.
Or maybe not. I think that, for me, studying philosophy of religion sort of cleared things up for me, to my satisfaction. Philosophy of mind... I believe that it is possible for something along the lines of me (my consciousness, my personality somehow) to survive the death of my body... But I really don't believe that there is an intentionality or agency behind the universe who would at all have different plans for me on the basis of my proclaiming or even behaviourally adhering to any or even all of the religions...
if there is some kind of intelligent creator... who is benevolent... if they were worth their salt at all... they would have a little empathy for our predicament, i believe.
you are a good person, Toph. You are kind. You have a good heart. If that isn't good enough then, well... maybe you are too good for them :-p
Posted by rjlockhart37 on October 19, 2014, at 0:21:31
In reply to Re: eternal damnation » rjlockhart37, posted by herpills on October 18, 2014, at 17:48:30
hey hey, i went thourhg alot of stuff....i found it, this was in penang maylasia, i have to say this may look like silly stuff, people moaning and praying, and the lady looks pretty scary, but this is just one out of millions of videos of people getting healed, youtube is vary good source, really.....
here it is, you have to download it, im sorry i couldnt find it on a video on the web, this is from jesushealsmi.com - jesus heals ministries international
http://www.jesushealsmi.com/home.htmlit the one with the lady who looks scary with her eyes.....click on the download to windows media player
i like showing these things, so people will know they do happen.....some are bullcrap, and some are true
ill try to post more from youtube
just wanted to show you the video
r
Posted by rjlockhart37 on October 19, 2014, at 0:23:41
In reply to Re: eternal damnation, posted by rjlockhart37 on October 19, 2014, at 0:21:31
Posted by rjlockhart37 on October 19, 2014, at 0:41:10
In reply to Re: eternal damnation, posted by rjlockhart37 on October 19, 2014, at 0:21:31
well.....i don't know, it's a video, but it's kinda crude, i love the orginazation jesus heals ministry......but
i found some more.....this is with sid roth, about supernautral healing, but it doesnt have evidence on camera.....just people's testimonies and stories.....
i swear there are tons of videos on youtube of people getting healed and being able to walk on the pulpit......ill try do some more research
but here's some more stuff:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ifwcoO2wqMhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqx5R8rltms
it's relieving to know some of these things happen.....
i'm too lazy right now to scrapt up the most intresting ones to see....but all i can say it happens
healing power of god
:)
r
Posted by Toph on October 20, 2014, at 19:29:47
In reply to Re: Hell, what was I thinking? » Toph, posted by alexandra_k on October 18, 2014, at 18:48:04
... But I really don't believe that there is an intentionality or agency behind the universe who would at all have different plans for me on the basis of my proclaiming or even behaviourally adhering to any or even all of the religions...
>
> if there is some kind of intelligent creator... who is benevolent... if they were worth their salt at all... they would have a little empathy for our predicament, i believe.
>Agreed. It's these thoughts that suggest that I have some latent belief. My mind says that's totally irrational, but who wouldn't wish for a caring force, someone who liked us for all the sh!t we've been through. Nah, that sounds like the relentless desires of battered women who hope their partners will change.
Posted by alexandra_k on October 20, 2014, at 21:29:24
In reply to Re: Hell, what was I thinking?, posted by Toph on October 20, 2014, at 19:29:47
Ah. Benevolence. Kindness. Something like that. Forgiveness. All these things... I think... Need to come from within. That sounds trite, doesn't it. HOw the hell is one supposed to do that? I think the way to do it is to step back from oneself... Look upon oneself as the God one wishes there was... If that makes sense.
I think it is particularly hard to do that in our society because society is kind of... Not sure hypocritical is the word... About this kind of thing. I mean... Lets say you do your best... You take reasonable care... And still, something bad happens. Society prefers you to feel (unreasonably) guilty. You are *supposed* to feel guilty. Then society forgives you. And after a period of time you are allowed to internalise the forgiveness. But try... Speeding the process up and doing it yourself. Just try and prevent feelings of guilt in the first place by counselling yourself 'I did the best I could. It was unfortunate. But I did the best I could, all that could be expected of me'. Then.. Society likes to think you are a psychopath and they'd like to see you punished...
And so... Absolution must come from without. Go figure. From partners... From children... From God.
Hur.
Posted by obsidian on October 21, 2014, at 17:28:21
In reply to Re: eternal damnation, posted by Dr. Bob on October 15, 2014, at 0:04:08
No eternal damnation anxiety here.
This is the end of the thread.
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