![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by SLS on June 9, 2009, at 5:50:06
What do we really owe another person?
Strangers?
Acquaintances?
Friends?
Spouses?
Children?
Family?
What do we really owe ourselves?
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on June 9, 2009, at 13:07:24
In reply to What do we owe other people?, posted by SLS on June 9, 2009, at 5:50:06
I don't know as I've given and given til nothing left and now no one wants to give to me. Phillipa
Posted by SLS on June 9, 2009, at 13:47:58
In reply to Re: What do we owe other people? » SLS, posted by Phillipa on June 9, 2009, at 13:07:24
> I don't know as I've given and given til nothing left and now no one wants to give to me. Phillipa
That's why I think it is so important to resolve the question as to what we owe ourselves.
- Scott
Posted by Ladyraven on June 9, 2009, at 17:33:19
In reply to Re: What do we owe other people?, posted by SLS on June 9, 2009, at 13:47:58
> That's why I think it is so important to resolve the question as to what we owe ourselves.
>
>
> - Scott
>What we owe to ourselves I'm sure varies from person to person - for me I owe myself doing what I need to do and what it takes to find, embrace and have contentment, acceptance and effective coping.
What I owe to others - for those who are loving, supportive and long suffering with me, I owe them an expression of appreciation I cannot hope to fulfill but I need to try. For those who have not meet those characteristics, I owe them the respect of their choices and the allowing to them the ability to leave me alone sans my distaste and my gift of leaving them alone.
In my life I have taken more than I have given but I'm not done yet :)
Posted by Cass on June 9, 2009, at 18:36:50
In reply to What do we owe other people?, posted by SLS on June 9, 2009, at 5:50:06
To be treated with respect. That's fundamental; anything else we owe each other depends on the situation.
Posted by Sigismund on June 9, 2009, at 19:18:25
In reply to What do we owe other people?, posted by SLS on June 9, 2009, at 5:50:06
What are our duties?
Cause no harm, follow the golden rule, and (at least) count the dead.
Posted by gobbledygook on June 9, 2009, at 19:54:59
In reply to What do we owe other people?, posted by SLS on June 9, 2009, at 5:50:06
respect and compassion.
Posted by 10derHeart on June 9, 2009, at 20:01:58
In reply to What do we owe other people?, posted by SLS on June 9, 2009, at 5:50:06
Others?
Love and kindness. Particularly those we might view as not so lovable or deserving of kindness.
For me, I try not to think of "owe," just that I was made for this, and all my lesser impulses come from...well, a a bad place. Digging for the love and kindness every day is a "simple" request and a command from the Almighty, that's anything *but* simple, which He knows and I sure do, too.
Myself? Maybe the same, but that's even harder. We can all be pretty harsh on ourselves.
A life that stands for something, in the end?
Working toward any of these is a lifelong journey, with pitfalls, slides back and forward, even falls off cliffs sometimes. I know it's worth it, in my heart, but my head sure likes to rebel.....
Posted by Phillipa on June 9, 2009, at 21:23:53
In reply to What do we owe other people?, posted by SLS on June 9, 2009, at 5:50:06
I owe myself not feeling guilty for not being who I used to be and that's what even my kids demand. Phillipa
Posted by SLS on June 10, 2009, at 5:28:08
In reply to Re: What do we owe other people? » SLS, posted by 10derHeart on June 9, 2009, at 20:01:58
> Others?
>
> Love and kindness. Particularly those we might view as not so lovable or deserving of kindness.
>
> For me, I try not to think of "owe," just that I was made for this, and all my lesser impulses come from...well, a a bad place. Digging for the love and kindness every day is a "simple" request and a command from the Almighty, that's anything *but* simple, which He knows and I sure do, too.
>
> Myself? Maybe the same, but that's even harder. We can all be pretty harsh on ourselves.
>
> A life that stands for something, in the end?
>
> Working toward any of these is a lifelong journey, with pitfalls, slides back and forward, even falls off cliffs sometimes. I know it's worth it, in my heart, but my head sure likes to rebel.....I will start off by saying that I believe that the feelings that we "owe" people things that are kind and supportive are part nature and part nurture. I think these things are hard-wired into our brains genetically. There is even evidence that prehistoric man cared for its crippled, who were perhaps clan or family members. I am not sure, but I also think altruism is one of those things that is largely built into us genetically. If it is not, then the potential is probably strongly influenced by genetics as being epigenetic. It would then be up to the environment to nurture this potential to produce true altruism, such that the acts of one individual towards another can cost the first individual more than the second individual with the full understanding of the first. I think this is one path that our concept of "owing" someone can take.
- Scott
Posted by 10derHeart on June 10, 2009, at 14:04:16
In reply to Re: What do we owe other people? » 10derHeart, posted by SLS on June 10, 2009, at 5:28:08
I gotcha. That all makes huge sense, actually. It's what I think I was thinking about what I said "I (we) were made for this...," but you said it with all those proper and excellent words - quit being too smart for me - will ya?!! {wink}
Sometimes I have trouble incorporating certain ideas with my religious beliefs, even though those ideas may seem so "right" they "should" fit. Sometimes I cannot, so I reject some. Sometimes I find, to my surprise, I can, so it seems a gigantic puzzle gets a tiny, tiny but more complete.
I'm not sure I'm really making sense here, or at least as much as I'd like to, and I am tiptoeing some. I don't even post on Faith, and I'm afraid I shall suddenly make a Faith-type post here (oh, no!) as that is my entire approach to questions like your original one. Not that the world would spin off its axis or anything if I posted something like that on the {gasp} Social board! But I try to be extra-good....Lol.
I was getting stuck on the word "owe" somehow. I don't know why. If I'm reminded of obligation, that's okay with me, as I see obligations as honorable and also important in our relations with God, others and ourselves. (It's easy to love the lovable, etc.) So it's wasn't that I "mind" if sometimes the love and kindness aren't flowing freely and are more of a thing that "must" be done. Don't know quite why my brain stopped on that word.
I like your question. It's still making me think. Thanks for posting it.
Posted by SLS on June 10, 2009, at 16:42:16
In reply to Re: What do we owe other people? » SLS, posted by 10derHeart on June 10, 2009, at 14:04:16
> I like your question. It's still making me think. Thanks for posting it.Thanks for reading and responding to it. I am still thinking about it. And although it was a very purposeful choice of words -"owe" -, that is my sticking point, too.
It is ironic that I should have had some more definite ideas that I don't think would have been very popular, I am now searching for answers myself.
> Sometimes I have trouble incorporating certain ideas with my religious beliefs, even though those ideas may seem so "right" they "should" fit. Sometimes I cannot, so I reject some. Sometimes I find, to my surprise, I can, so it seems a gigantic puzzle gets a tiny, tiny but more complete
I don't think the concept of nature versus nurture clashes with the Judaeo-Christian concept of God. One way or another, we are biological beings arrived at through procreation. We are all seeded. From these seeds and their built-in biological potential, individuals are grown within a certain environment. That's the nurture part. Just why are people generally good? (At least, I believe they are). Why do children usually play together harmoniously? Where do they learn how to do that at such a young age? I think this is more a question of biology than nurture. However, nurture comes from many different sources, including cultural.
In the meantime, I am lecturing, as I so often do, and I still can't answer my question.
One of the perplexing questions I have is: where does that leave the sociopath along these spectrums?
- Scott
Posted by SLS on June 10, 2009, at 19:05:17
In reply to What do we owe other people?, posted by SLS on June 9, 2009, at 5:50:06
> What do we really owe another person?
>
> Strangers?
>
> Acquaintances?
>
> Friends?
>
> Spouses?
>
> Children?
>
> Family?
>
> What do we really owe ourselves?Here's two:
Strangers: I think at the very least, we owe each other respect and justice.
Ourselves: I think we owe ourselves honesty with ourselves and the right to place boundaries between ourselves and others.
- Scott
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Social | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.