![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 59 to 83 of 83. Go back in thread:
Posted by Phil on January 20, 2007, at 20:01:55
In reply to Re: Thank you for letting me know! » gabbi-2, posted by Phillipa on January 20, 2007, at 19:21:56
Me neither gabbi. :)
Posted by fayeroe on January 20, 2007, at 21:57:41
In reply to Thank you for letting me know!, posted by gabbi-2 on January 20, 2007, at 19:00:09
> I guess I just didn't give my fellow babblers enough credit : )
thank YOU, Gabbi, i was needing some credit right now...........:-)
Posted by Deneb on January 20, 2007, at 22:56:25
In reply to Re: How can you be sure? *triggers* » Deneb, posted by fayeroe on January 20, 2007, at 17:26:28
> deneb, every time you "mini OD" (i am SO uncomfortable with that term. i used to work in ER) you are doing damage to your liver and kidneys that they may not be able to reverse. every time you take too much of any medication, your liver has to work extra hard to protect you. you can google "liver" and learn how terribly important it is to have a good healthy one.
>
> i have to go on record and say that there is no "mini OD", medically, and a mistake may be made one day and it will be irreversible. patI believe you Pat. I won't do it again.
Deneb*
Posted by Fallen4MyT on January 20, 2007, at 23:29:54
In reply to Re: calling for help, posted by Dr. Bob on January 20, 2007, at 10:48:26
Dr Bob can you *give us some examples* of how we may help? I think I saw once on this site a notice "if you are suicidal call...etc"......Would not helping Deneb by NOT suggesting she call for professional help
lead others to NOT post or want to talk to her and or to feel accused and put down by you because they offered the SAME advice and help most professionals have on their recorded messages and websites ? Could this lead Deneb to be shunned ? I would not want to see that. I am not being smart mouthed or snide when I ask you these questions.
> > It has been pointed out, it is your call as when to call for help.
> >
> > Glydin
>
> > I think a lot of folks assume this mythical "help" is out there, and refuse to believe that it doesn't always exist.
> >
> > I've had people angry with me for not partaking of it, when it couldn't be found, and it was agonizing, I felt let down by everyone.
> >
> > gabbi-2
>
> I understand people want to help, and it's hard to know what's best sometimes, but pressure can go both ways, and it might not help Deneb to feel pressured, or that others are angry with her.
>
> Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 21, 2007, at 3:51:02
In reply to Re: calling for help, posted by fayeroe on January 20, 2007, at 17:39:56
> Why is suggesting multiple times, the only advice we (as Non-Professionals) know to be equal to the severity of the complaints/posts, "pressure"? ... What would be the appropriate response for non-doctors, on a site which isn't supposed to be used as(or replace) therapy itself, to someone talking of suicide and overdose? To me, anything less than suggesting calling ones psychiatrist, an new pdoc, a distress center, or going to the ER, would not only be incompetant, but would even mock the person's distress
>
> I don't believe it's the "fault" of the poster when a repeated suggestion is infered (as you, according to the wording above, have seem to have done) with "anger". Why did you choose "anger" and not "distress" or "concern"?
>
> Also, you've never commented on how people must also learn to *reject* advice in an equally responsible and neutral way.
>
> thanks ElFirst, I didn't mean to imply that suggesting that someone in distress call a psychiatrist or a distress center or go to an ER was inappropriate. Nor that anyone here wasn't trying to help.
Maybe pressure was on my mind because it's been an issue at Admin. That's a good question, if there's a difference between suggesting multiple times and pressuring. And another good question is whether there ways to suggest that would be more likely to be experienced as concern rather than anger. What do you all think?
As far as how else to respond, are there responses *in addition* to those suggestions that you all would find helpful if you were feeling really distressed? What would you want a friend to say to you?
I agree, posters in distress do need to be civil, too.
--
> i'm just picking myself up off the floor over this........i posted about how much damage deneb's liver is taking and i wonder if he thinks she shouldn't know that?
>
> patSorry about knocking you onto the floor. No, her knowing that wasn't the issue.
Bob
Posted by ElaineM on January 21, 2007, at 12:34:32
In reply to Re: helping, posted by Dr. Bob on January 21, 2007, at 3:51:02
>>>>>>First, I didn't mean to imply that suggesting that someone in distress call a psychiatrist or a distress center or go to an ER was inappropriate. Nor that anyone here wasn't trying to help.
No, I didn't think it seemed as though you were saying it's inappropriate, but more that you thought it felt like "pressure" because it was a over-exaggeration in relation to the distressed posts. That's why I asked if you possibly questioned the veracity of the distress posts -- I felt confused by the lack of levity you seemed to view the situation with. Though, now you've attempted clarify somewhat.
No, I wouldn't think you *meant* to. Everyone injects their own personal feelings into their responses -- you are no less human. But the thing that people felt accused from was (as I mentioned in the other post) that you chose to refer to such help as representative of "anger", instead of something with more positive connotations. Again, perhaps you find it difficult to seperate your own personal feelings, but it paints your replies in something less than a purely administrative tone -- that's all. Perhaps you've never had a personal brush with overdose or lost someone to suicide - could that be why you are not viewing posts that contain such subjects as in need of immediate intervention as other readers here? Or have you yourself had traumatic experiences receiveing suicide-distress calls from patients before, and you have feelings about us suggesting "call a professional" advice? I don't know.
>>>>>That's a good question, if there's a difference between suggesting multiple times and pressuring. And another good question is whether there ways to suggest that would be more likely to be experienced as concern rather than anger. What do you all think?
Yes, I thought it was a valid question. That's why I wanted your response. Perhaps you could give your opinion first, and then we could use that to spark a discussion - rather than you not giving a response. Again, the "anger" word :)
>>>>>>As far as how else to respond, are there responses *in addition* to those suggestions that you all would find helpful if you were feeling really distressed? What would you want a friend to say to you?
Bob, again no real answer? We wanted to hear from you (from the person who posted that original judgement, and from the admin)
I think that maybe you are missing my point. Feeling really distressed is one thing, suicide and overdoses is another. I agree there are a wide variety of ways to convery support to someone who is distressed. THere are significantly less ways to help someone talking of overdosing. And in that situation (as other posters have also echoed) nothing is equal to the seriousness of the subject, or the level of distress of the outcry, than to advise that someone call, or be with, professionals. At least not that we knew of, hence the question to you.>>>>>>I agree, posters in distress do need to be civil, too.
Thank you. I appreciate that being acknowledged.
thanks El
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 21, 2007, at 16:23:05
In reply to Re: helping » Dr. Bob, posted by ElaineM on January 21, 2007, at 12:34:32
> I wanted your response. Perhaps you could give your opinion first, and then we could use that to spark a discussion
I think you all are capable of sparking a discussion yourselves. :-) I just wanted to shift the focus.
> Feeling really distressed is one thing, suicide and overdoses is another. ... in that situation ... nothing is equal to the seriousness of the subject, or the level of distress of the outcry, than to advise that someone call, or be with, professionals.
So are you saying that if you were talking to a friend about overdosing, the only response you'd find helpful would be if they suggested that you call a professional?
Bob
Posted by ElaineM on January 21, 2007, at 18:09:46
In reply to Re: helping, posted by Dr. Bob on January 21, 2007, at 16:23:05
>>>>>I think you all are capable of sparking a discussion yourselves. :-) I just wanted to shift the focus.
Fair enough. I just wanted you to clarify why you chose to judge the tone of the posts as angry. But if you want to change the subject, i guess I'll have to be okay with that.
>>>>So are you saying that if you were talking to a friend about overdosing, the only response you'd find helpful would be if they suggested that you call a professional?
If i couldn't take the chosen method of self-harm (especially pills, which people can never be sure how each individual body will react to -- especially if I couldn't ensure dosing mistakes weren't made, especially if I wouldn't be there to monitor someone's health/coherance afterwards...to name a few) away from someone, then I would always tell them to call a professional. I don't make light of the harm that overdose can do.
But back to the scenario, if I was talking to my friend in an extremely emotionally distressed way, had the potential means to enact my plan, was expressing a sense of hopelessness, then Yes I would.
Overdose and suicide are very tragic things. Since we're talking about me, I'd hope my friend would call someone if my distress was escalating, or I was sounding more chaotic or emotionally unstable -- particularily cause I've never said anything like that before to anyone. So if I ever reached the point of suicide or potentially damaging drug doses, and chose to tell someone, YES I'd think that would merit immediate reaction.Is it the idea of overdose that you view lightly? Would it make a difference if the potential method of harm was a gun? I'm truly not understanding where you're coming from. I'd think you'd understand how serious suicide and overdosing are. It's different than just being sad.
I don't see how anyone could say that a friend *shouldn't* always say that someone so distressed they're thinking of harming themself should call their T or pdoc. Though I suppose we'll never meet on this issue.
thanks, El
Posted by Deneb on January 21, 2007, at 18:28:24
In reply to Re: helping » Dr. Bob, posted by ElaineM on January 21, 2007, at 18:09:46
There's a big difference between self harm and wanting to kill ones self. Maybe think of mini ODing as the same as superficial cutting? Would one need to see a professional every single time he cut? Even if it weren't medically serious?
I didn't take a big OD, I only took 2 grams of ASA. I need a lot more than that to harm myself.
Deneb*
Posted by Llurpsie_Noodle on January 21, 2007, at 19:07:38
In reply to Re: helping *trigger*, posted by Deneb on January 21, 2007, at 18:28:24
> There's a big difference between self harm and wanting to kill ones self. Maybe think of mini ODing as the same as superficial cutting? Would one need to see a professional every single time he cut? Even if it weren't medically serious?
>
> I didn't take a big OD, I only took 2 grams of ASA. I need a lot more than that to harm myself.
>
> Deneb*Deneb,
Did you harm yourself? How can any of us (even you, even your pdoc) ever know for sure? I don't even want you to come *close* to harming yourself.I think you might want to consider different ways of understanding what self-harm is. Didn't you have a nosebleed? Don't you think that is unusual? Didn't you relate your "mini OD" to your nosebleed and say that the OD caused the nosebleed?
Maybe it's not useful for us to argue about whether or not (or the degree to which) you are harming yourself. Perhaps it might be useful for you to think about these issues from a different point of view.
I do NOT view self-harm, suicidal ideation, and such as innocuous behaviors. I think that they are expressive behaviors, but that they carry a real risk, however much we wish to assuage ourselves after the fact that we are "okay". I urge Deneb to find other ways of expressing distress than to do things that cause nosebleeds or hospitalization or even broken skin. There ARE better ways
I'm really working hard on this myself, Deneb, so please try to understand that I'm not being judgemental of you. I justify my own self-injury over and over again. I wish I could get OUT of my own cycle, but it requires constant vigilance. Just when I think everything is under control, I do something that I will later be ashamed of and regret.
In your posts on this matter, I hear a mixture of regret (taken to extremes = I will never OD again) and also self-defense (I didn't take enough to hurt myself; my pdoc doesn't seem concerned, etc.)
Maybe I can add a new thing to think about. Think about important people in your life. Your Mom, Your Sister, and I'm going to invoke your warm feelings toward Dr. Bob too.
When you feel desperate, imagine that you are trying too coach your sister, or Dr. Bob from performing this behavior.
"Dear Dr. Bob, please don't take those pills. That's too much. I don't care if a pdoc says it's not dangerous, it's just too much. Dr. Bob, I don't want you to have a nosebleed because you took too much. Even if you seem fine and healthy otherwise, I wish you had expressed your pain using words rather than by punishing yourself and trying to ease your suffering by hurting your body"
I realize that this sounds really silly, but I'm serious. I'm SO serious that I am actually not worried about seeming stupid (I HATE appearing stupid). I just wish I could give Deneb some other options for next time she feels intense distress (there will always be a next time...). There ARE other options besides a) tell professional or loved one that I'm going to take pills and b) taking pills before telling professional and loved ones that I took pills and c) [I don' even want to contemplate Deneb harming herself and NOT being treated for it].
Deneb, I'm not sure of your current feelings- whether you're feeling strong now, unsure, whether you're feeling okay or distressed. I really want you to know that I consider you a very special person, and I'm very fond of you. I would not wish anything bad to happen to you, regardless of who's at fault, what the circumstance was, or whatever. I just don't want you to hurt. period.
I know it's hard Deneb. I also know that you are a very clever and courageous person who tries very hard. My sincere wish is that the next time you have these uncomfortable thoughts and urges, try to place your self-injury behavior in a larger context that includes people who love and care about you.
best,
Llp.s. Deneb or administrators, please babble-mail me if what I write seems like too much pressure. If I'm pushy, it's because I like Deneb too much, but I don't want her to hurt as a result of my pressure. Thank you in advance
Posted by ElaineM on January 21, 2007, at 19:50:26
In reply to Re: helping *trigger*, posted by Deneb on January 21, 2007, at 18:28:24
>>>>>Maybe think of mini ODing as the same as superficial cutting? Would one need to see a professional every single time he cut? Even if it weren't medically serious?
I don't condone self-harm. I struggle with that myself. I've been good lately. But I've mentioned every time to either LadyT or my T now. If someone cut with blades I'd tell them to call (at least) a distress center before every time. Kinda like how an alcoholic is supposed to call their sponsor whenever they feel like taking a drink. If someone would burn themselves...same thing. I'd tell anyone who was gonna self-harm to call a distress center first. Should someone call their T if they stratch with their fingers until their skin turns red....probably not, but at least mention it next time. BUt I'm not a doctor - others may have more informed opinions.
But I wouldn't want to justify the idea of self-harm through over-medicating by quantifying amounts. [My advice would be the same to someone who was about to cut themself - call someone] With medication, there can be (and often is) a build up, a cumulative damaging effect, that is unpredicatable for each organ, each person. Also, most of the time when people post under significant stress they are not as lucid and mistakes can be made in dosing, emotions can escalate. You've said before that you've thought of taking even more than you did the time you were in the hospital cause your T told you you wouldn't die - that makes me worry for you. I'm sorry, I'd never agree with the fact that just cause you don't take a "so-called" lethal dose that it's alright, and not a behaviour that a professional should be involved with and taking seriously - especially if it's a pattern. I think if I did, it would re-enforce your belief that cause people don't care about your over-medicating (when you say that your T doesn't seem to care) that it's not dangerous, and is a healthy way of coping. It's not. When you say that thinking of ODing has a snowball effect for you, it makes me feel nervous for you.
Also, I've been looking and you *can* file a complaint against your pdoc if she refuses to treat your OD or suicide behaviour seriously/appropriately. If anything, you could tell her what her reaction to your previous attempts/episodes make you think and feel. You can do a search for Patients Rights Advocate Groups if you want more personalized advise in regards to your rights as a therapy patient.Do you still think you might still try to call a distress number next time you feel like abusing yourself? I thought that was a very brave commitment on your part.
thanks, El
Posted by Deneb on January 21, 2007, at 19:59:58
In reply to Re: helping *trigger* » Deneb, posted by Llurpsie_Noodle on January 21, 2007, at 19:07:38
> Deneb,
> Did you harm yourself? How can any of us (even you, even your pdoc) ever know for sure? I don't even want you to come *close* to harming yourself.I'm sorry ((((((((((LlurpsieNoodle)))))))))))))
You care so much. I love you. If I hurt you by hurting myself I won't ever hurt myself again.
> I think you might want to consider different ways of understanding what self-harm is. Didn't you have a nosebleed? Don't you think that is unusual? Didn't you relate your "mini OD" to your nosebleed and say that the OD caused the nosebleed?
I don't know if the ASA caused the nosebleed. I do know ASA prevents clotting of the blood. I did a quick Google on it and nosebleeds came up.
> I'm really working hard on this myself, Deneb, so please try to understand that I'm not being judgemental of you. I justify my own self-injury over and over again. I wish I could get OUT of my own cycle, but it requires constant vigilance. Just when I think everything is under control, I do something that I will later be ashamed of and regret.
I know Llurpsie. Self harm is not OK. I wish you didn't self harm.
>
> In your posts on this matter, I hear a mixture of regret (taken to extremes = I will never OD again) and also self-defense (I didn't take enough to hurt myself; my pdoc doesn't seem concerned, etc.)
>
> Maybe I can add a new thing to think about. Think about important people in your life. Your Mom, Your Sister, and I'm going to invoke your warm feelings toward Dr. Bob too.
>
> When you feel desperate, imagine that you are trying too coach your sister, or Dr. Bob from performing this behavior.
>
> "Dear Dr. Bob, please don't take those pills. That's too much. I don't care if a pdoc says it's not dangerous, it's just too much. Dr. Bob, I don't want you to have a nosebleed because you took too much. Even if you seem fine and healthy otherwise, I wish you had expressed your pain using words rather than by punishing yourself and trying to ease your suffering by hurting your body"If I imagined it were you or Dr. Bob, or my sister taking an OD, I would try everything I could to stop it too. ((((((((((LlurpsieNoodle)))))))))))) You care soooo much. I don't want to hurt you. I promise I'll think of you whenever I want to OD.
(((((((((LlurpsieNoodle)))))))))) I love you. I don't want to see you hurt. I won't hurt myself again.
Deneb*
Posted by Llurpsie_Noodle on January 21, 2007, at 22:32:59
In reply to Re: helping *trigger* » Llurpsie_Noodle, posted by Deneb on January 21, 2007, at 19:59:58
Thanks for hearing me with an open heart Deneb. You are a very sweet person and you have so much caring in you. Inside of you is a voice that cares for YOU, and you are getting better at listening for it.
(((((((Deneb)))))))
thousands of hugs for you too my friend. You're a sweet person, and I hope you feel strong and confident all your days. Even on days when you're not feeling so hot, please think about the big picture. I'm so happy and surprised to read that you love me. That's such a nice feeling to be loved. I hope we can meet in real life one day :)
(((more hugs for you)))
Ll
Posted by ClearSkies on January 21, 2007, at 22:49:56
In reply to Re: helping *trigger* » Deneb, posted by Llurpsie_Noodle on January 21, 2007, at 22:32:59
> thousands of hugs for you too my friend. You're a sweet person, and I hope you feel strong and confident all your days. Even on days when you're not feeling so hot, please think about the big picture. I'm so happy and surprised to read that you love me. That's such a nice feeling to be loved. I hope we can meet in real life one day :)
>
> (((more hugs for you)))
>
> Ll
Deneb, Lurpsie's are gold-star hugs. They last for hours, very sticky!Take care, Deneb.
((((Lurps))))
Posted by NikkiT2 on January 22, 2007, at 0:44:22
In reply to Re: helping *trigger*, posted by Deneb on January 21, 2007, at 18:28:24
OD'ing is NOT superficial.
it is NOT superficial cutting. Did you read my post?
Would you like to know, in depth, what a nose bleed can signify in an asprin overdose? You're intelligent deneb, surely you know the danger of internal bleeding if your nose had already started bleeding.
Posted by 10derHeart on January 22, 2007, at 1:27:37
In reply to Re: helping *trigger* » Deneb, posted by Llurpsie_Noodle on January 21, 2007, at 22:32:59
Llurpsie,
I loved your post here to Deneb. I can't even find words adequate enough to describe how excellent I think your words are. Like a breath of fresh air with buckets of love and caring splashed all over it, if I may be so utterly sappy and poetic (sorry, Poet, probably using the term loosely and in my own way) for a moment. After all, my name is *10DER*heart for a reason.. :-)
Wow. I am in awe.
And, as for this:
>>I hope we can meet in real life one day :)I hope so, too, because I *have* met Deneb and it was all that and way more than some old bag of chips! She is lovely inside and out.
I am so glad that Llurpsie came to Babble.
-- 10derHeart (sometimes known as TDH)
ps - Wearing both poster and deputy hats (I knew my fathead was good for something!) I didn't see anything uncivil and/or pressuring in your post.
Posted by one woman cine on January 22, 2007, at 8:44:33
In reply to Re: calling for help » Dr. Bob, posted by ElaineM on January 20, 2007, at 17:03:53
Brilliant post - you said it perfectly.
Posted by Llurpsie_Noodle on January 22, 2007, at 11:35:41
In reply to Re: helping *trigger* » Llurpsie_Noodle, posted by 10derHeart on January 22, 2007, at 1:27:37
Posted by Kath on January 22, 2007, at 11:51:56
In reply to Re: How can you be sure? » Deneb, posted by tofuemmy on January 18, 2007, at 18:33:36
Jeez Emmy - that's just what I need - how to better tolerate feeling crappy!!!!!!! I'm going to check that site out.
When I feel crappy I tend to mentally 'thrash around' - like a fish thrown onto dry land.
thx for mentioning that.
Kath
Posted by Kath on January 22, 2007, at 12:24:29
In reply to Re: How can you be sure? *triggers* » Llurpsie_Noodle, posted by Deneb on January 19, 2007, at 12:07:52
My pdoc told me I wouldn't have died. I believe her. I OD to self harm, not to die. I know how much I need to take for there to be a chance of it being lethal. I don't approach that amount.
****Hi Deneb - hugs to you. Deneb, there are other things that can happen from taking too many meds hun. You can damage your brain! My son is having to deal with that very thing right now. His mind is messed up & he doesn't know if it will get better or not. Granted, it's from 'doing drugs' as opposed to 'taking meds' - but taking TOO MANY meds is sorta like doing drugs in that our body is not built in a way to deal with that much medication. You can cause brain damage, liver damage & other damage as well. 10 of pretty-well anything is WAYYYYY too many! They aren't meant to be taken in that quantity & it is NOT safe to take that many & you can count on it, that it isn't good for your body to take that many, and you could easily end up having to live the rest of your life with whatever damage (physical and/or mental) has been caused by overdosing on medication.
I think you idea of writing down that telephone number is PERFECT. It is a great idea. Write it down & keep it with you always. Put it in your purse. If you don't wear a purse, put it in your bra!!! If you don't wear a bra - well heck - put it in your shoe even!!! Have that number with you at all times. Better still, call your hospital or mental health clinic & get a couple of alternate numbers in case the line is busy at that one.*****
>
When I OD I don't want to die. If I'm able to tell my Mom or call my pdoc before I OD, that probably means I wouldn't have OD'd in the first place. I guess when I mean is, if I tell someone about it before I do it, that means I wasn't serious about it to begin with and was in no danger, but I think I know what you mean. Wouldn't it be like crying wolf if I say I'm thinking of ODing and I don't?*******I don't think it would be like crying wolf at all. If you tell someone that you're feeling desparate & feel like ODing, you're telling them HOW YOU'RE FEELING....not what you're going to do. Sounds like you're in the process of learning to deal with your feelings in a new way. The good thing, is that it sounds like you're WILLING to & INTERESTED in learning new ways of dealing with feeling awful Deneb. I hope you give yourself a pat on the back for that.
I think Distress lines or Crisis lines are perfect for this type of situation.....you don't need to even give it a second thought as to whether you should call or not: That's precisely what they're there for!**********> I think she's good at counselling. She helps me.
>
**********If she helps you that's great. Seems like she's a good resource for you for counselling. And that a Distress or Crisis centre would be a good resource for you when you feel lonely, needy, desparate, etc.*****I send big hugs, luv, Kath
Posted by Kath on January 22, 2007, at 12:58:23
In reply to Re: helping, posted by Dr. Bob on January 21, 2007, at 16:23:05
> So are you saying that if you were talking to a friend about overdosing, the only response you'd find helpful would be if they suggested that you call a professional?
>
> BobI think there've been other responses happening; maybe not in every single post, but from reading the posts, it seems to me that there's lots of warmth, empathy, sympathy, validation, encouragement, etc.....as I say, not in every post, but we're already giving those things as well as suggesting calling for help.
Kath
Posted by Kath on January 22, 2007, at 13:01:14
In reply to Re: helping » Dr. Bob, posted by Kath on January 22, 2007, at 12:58:23
it seems to me that there's lots of warmth, empathy, sympathy, validation, encouragement, etc.....as I say, not in every post, but we're already giving those things as well as suggesting calling for help.
> Kath
****PS - I don't mean to imply that we're using those things as part of a "formula" - they're coming from our hearts when we hear someone we care about hurting & desparate.
Kath****
Posted by Deneb on January 22, 2007, at 19:23:22
In reply to Re: helping *trigger* » Deneb, posted by NikkiT2 on January 22, 2007, at 0:44:22
> OD'ing is NOT superficial.
>
> it is NOT superficial cutting. Did you read my post?
>
> Would you like to know, in depth, what a nose bleed can signify in an asprin overdose? You're intelligent deneb, surely you know the danger of internal bleeding if your nose had already started bleeding.You're right Nikki. Any form of self harm is not OK. I won't do it again.
Deneb*
Posted by fayeroe on January 22, 2007, at 19:40:03
In reply to Re: How can you be sure? *triggers* » fayeroe, posted by Deneb on January 20, 2007, at 22:56:25
> > deneb, every time you "mini OD" (i am SO uncomfortable with that term. i used to work in ER) you are doing damage to your liver and kidneys that they may not be able to reverse. every time you take too much of any medication, your liver has to work extra hard to protect you. you can google "liver" and learn how terribly important it is to have a good healthy one.
> >
> > i have to go on record and say that there is no "mini OD", medically, and a mistake may be made one day and it will be irreversible. pat
>
> I believe you Pat. I won't do it again.
>
> Deneb*Deneb, somehow i had missed the post about the nosebleed. a nose bleed is a symptom that something is going on with your blood clotting.......and not clotting...
i am really glad that you believe what i've told you because i've seen patients in ER after an attempted OD and i don't want you to end up that sick. as i said before, there aren't any "mini ODs"......it all adds up and your liver and other organs pay the price down the road.
take care, pat
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 22, 2007, at 20:13:31
In reply to Re: helping » Dr. Bob, posted by Kath on January 22, 2007, at 12:58:23
> If i couldn't take the chosen method of self-harm (especially pills, which people can never be sure how each individual body will react to -- especially if I couldn't ensure dosing mistakes weren't made, especially if I wouldn't be there to monitor someone's health/coherance afterwards...to name a few) away from someone, then I would always tell them to call a professional. I don't make light of the harm that overdose can do. ...
>
> ElaineMI think we're having this discussion at Admin, too, let's consolidate it there. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20061228/msgs/725306.html
--
> I think there've been other responses happening; maybe not in every single post, but from reading the posts, it seems to me that there's lots of warmth, empathy, sympathy, validation, encouragement, etc.....as I say, not in every post, but we're already giving those things as well as suggesting calling for help.
>
> KathThat's great, it seems to me that all those responses could potentially feel helpful to someone in distress.
Bob
This is the end of the thread.
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