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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 6 of 6. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by smokeymadison on July 8, 2005, at 12:52:46
i am writing a news story about a woman who stole a flag during the Vietnam War in protest of the war and then recently returned the flag b/c of a guilty conscience. funny thing is, the man she sent the flag to recently had his flag stolen on the 4th of July. one can only wonder if it was a protest over the war in Iraq.
i suppose stealing a flag isn't as strong a statement as burning one. but what exactly does it mean to steal a flag? is it the empty space that is left? or is it what you do w/ the flag once you steal it? the woman just hid it all these years. what does that mean?
Posted by deirdrehbrt on July 8, 2005, at 18:16:14
In reply to stealing a flag-what does it mean?, posted by smokeymadison on July 8, 2005, at 12:52:46
I don't know what stealing a flag could mean. I used to think that people who stole flags had no scruples but wanted to appear patriotic. I understand flag burning as being an act of outrage and I can understand the strong feelings that would lead one to do such a thing. Flag stealing though is really different.
Could this person have stolen the flag with the intent of burning it? Could feelings of patriotism have gotten in the way? Could she have been more intent on hurting the flags owner?
Thanks for making me think.--Dee
Posted by Tamar on July 8, 2005, at 20:48:18
In reply to stealing a flag-what does it mean?, posted by smokeymadison on July 8, 2005, at 12:52:46
> i am writing a news story about a woman who stole a flag during the Vietnam War in protest of the war and then recently returned the flag b/c of a guilty conscience. funny thing is, the man she sent the flag to recently had his flag stolen on the 4th of July. one can only wonder if it was a protest over the war in Iraq.
>
> i suppose stealing a flag isn't as strong a statement as burning one. but what exactly does it mean to steal a flag? is it the empty space that is left? or is it what you do w/ the flag once you steal it? the woman just hid it all these years. what does that mean?I've met people who have stolen flags (not in the USA). They did it to express their frustration with the status quo. Yes, the thing that is noticed is the empty space. So the act of stealing a flag is most effective if you steal it from a government building or something like that. Stealing a flag from a neighbour's front lawn is probably annoying to the neighbour, but doesn't make much of a statement.
I wonder more about what it means to return a stolen flag. Why the guilt? Have the woman's feelings changed? Does she now believe Vietnam was a necessary and just war? But these are probably questions for the political board, which I avoid for fear of being blocked for the rest of my life...
Tamar
Posted by alexandra_k on July 8, 2005, at 22:47:18
In reply to Re: stealing a flag-what does it mean? » smokeymadison, posted by Tamar on July 8, 2005, at 20:48:18
A lot out people (outside the US) aren't so keen on the US flag. Americans seem to really display their flag as a sign of patriotism. But not just at home... I think some people outside the US see such things as
Flags in space...
Flags in Iraq...
As more of a conquering gesture.A while back someone was talking about getting a US flag for someone (from a different country) as a gift. I was really suprised at the very idea of that. Why on earth would a non-american want an american flag????? But maybe americans feel differently about flags in general... I dunno. How would people feel if I came for a visit and gave you a NZ flag? What on earth would you do with it?????
In NZ (and also in other parts of the world, I suppose) it is illegal to burn a flag. I mean, in NZ it is illegal to burn a NZ flag. I don't know whether someone would be prosecuted for burning an American flag in NZ. Do you get prosecuted for burning an American flag in the US? How about another countries flag?
A little while back someone shot holes in a NZ flag. As part of a Maori protest where they were saying they didn't recognise our government / laws etc as authoratative. They were going to prosecute... But he didn't burn it and apparantly the law isn't so clear on shooting it... and given that it was part of a (fairly) peaceful protest they let it go.
Stealing a flag...
Well... Maybe thats a commentry on why they think the person thought enough of the flag so as to display it. I mean if the Vietnam war is going on and the country is divided because some people support the war and others oppose it... And if someone displays the flag round about then then I guess it would be natural for that to be taken as a show of support for the countries policy on the war. To steal that display would be to try and undermine that show of support. Kind of like ripping down your least favoured political parites advertising pre-election.
Maybe later she felt guilty because she is an American too, and (presumably) the flag isn't just about that...
All thats just my opinion.
I'm rather ill informed on stuff like this.
Posted by smokeymadison on July 10, 2005, at 1:29:32
In reply to Re: stealing a flag-what does it mean? » smokeymadison, posted by Tamar on July 8, 2005, at 20:48:18
thanks for the responses.
she stole the flag as it was flying on main street, in front of the guy's office (he was an attorney at the time). i don't think that she is now for the war in Vietnam, I think that as she has grown older she feels more respect for others' opinions. it is hard to tell w/out talking to her, something i wish i could do, but she didn't leave her phone number and doesn't want to be contacted by the press, i am guessing.
the empty space that is left--that is something to focus on in my story. thanks for reaffirming that thought, Tamar.
Posted by Tamar on July 10, 2005, at 4:54:15
In reply to thanks all--more info, posted by smokeymadison on July 10, 2005, at 1:29:32
> thanks for the responses.
>
> she stole the flag as it was flying on main street, in front of the guy's office (he was an attorney at the time). i don't think that she is now for the war in Vietnam, I think that as she has grown older she feels more respect for others' opinions. it is hard to tell w/out talking to her, something i wish i could do, but she didn't leave her phone number and doesn't want to be contacted by the press, i am guessing.
>
> the empty space that is left--that is something to focus on in my story. thanks for reaffirming that thought, Tamar.I can understand that your contact doesn’t want to be contacted by the press – there’s something in the action of stealing a flag that could cause feelings of anger in other people.
I’ve thought some more about this. There might be some other complex reasons. I think there’s something symbolic about stealing a flag. It’s partly the empty space and it’s partly a protest against what the flag is being used to represent. If the flag was being used to represent American power and authority during the Vietnam war, then stealing a flag is a surreptitious protest against US use of power, with the flag as a symbol of that power. And since flags are often symbols of national pride, stealing a flag indicates that the stealer doesn’t share that national pride, especially if she disagrees about how that pride is being displayed (in what she considers to be an unjust war).
The way the US flag has been used and displayed since 9/11 is probably a significant factor in her returning the flag she stole. It seems to me that the flag is being used as a symbol of national unity against an unseen enemy. And I think there’s also something about the flag being used to indicate that Americans will not be silenced by the violation and humiliation of 9/11. Flying the flag reasserts America’s sense of integrity, and determination to recover from the invasion of its boundaries. And widespread flying of the flag makes a symbolic request that people who live in the US ally themselves with American national identity against those who seek to undermine the nation.
So your contact’s returning a stolen flag now could indicate a desire to put the disagreements of the past (Vietnam) behind her; she’s now espousing the sense of national unity that comes from being outraged at the perceived threat to her country.
Just my two cents!
Tamar
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