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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by KaraS on May 26, 2005, at 2:50:11
Anyone know anything about plug in power supply AC adapters? My cat chewed up one that's attached to the TV antenna. I have another one here to substitute for it but I think it's more powerful. The original one has input of 120V 60Hz and 8W while the other one I have is 120V 60Hz and 23W. Would the latter one work ok (and just be overkill) or would it be dangerous to use it for some reason? I didn't compare the DC output on either of them. Is that a concern as well?
K
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 26, 2005, at 8:21:47
In reply to Boring electronics question, posted by KaraS on May 26, 2005, at 2:50:11
> Anyone know anything about plug in power supply AC adapters? My cat chewed up one that's attached to the TV antenna. I have another one here to substitute for it but I think it's more powerful. The original one has input of 120V 60Hz and 8W while the other one I have is 120V 60Hz and 23W. Would the latter one work ok (and just be overkill) or would it be dangerous to use it for some reason? I didn't compare the DC output on either of them. Is that a concern as well?
>
> KThe output voltage is the absolutely most important detail. That, and the plug shape. The extra wattage just means the potential replacement has a higher capacity.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 26, 2005, at 9:04:34
In reply to Re: Boring electronics question » KaraS, posted by Larry Hoover on May 26, 2005, at 8:21:47
> > Anyone know anything about plug in power supply AC adapters? My cat chewed up one that's attached to the TV antenna. I have another one here to substitute for it but I think it's more powerful. The original one has input of 120V 60Hz and 8W while the other one I have is 120V 60Hz and 23W. Would the latter one work ok (and just be overkill) or would it be dangerous to use it for some reason? I didn't compare the DC output on either of them. Is that a concern as well?
> >
> > K
>
> The output voltage is the absolutely most important detail. That, and the plug shape. The extra wattage just means the potential replacement has a higher capacity.
>
> LarForgot to consider amperage, but I have an appointment. Don't assume it's okay to substitute. Back later.
Lar
Posted by so on May 26, 2005, at 12:57:30
In reply to Boring electronics question, posted by KaraS on May 26, 2005, at 2:50:11
> Anyone know anything about plug in power supply AC adapters? My cat chewed up one that's attached to the TV antenna. I have another one here to substitute for it but I think it's more powerful. The original one has input of 120V 60Hz and 8W while the other one I have is 120V 60Hz and 23W. Would the latter one work ok (and just be overkill) or would it be dangerous to use it for some reason? I didn't compare the DC output on either of them. Is that a concern as well?
>
> K
>
>
>
First, be sure it is DC output and not AC out. As LH said, output is definately the major concern. To elablorate, one needs correct voltage, correct amperage and correct polarity. Most DC adapters have a tip/ring polarity configuration. Either the tip or the ring is positive, as indicated by a symbol that looks something like +-©-- . (Actually, more like an "o" inside a "C".) If you look carefully, the "+" sign will point to either the inner or the outer ring in the symbol. This needs to match the symbol on your device or polarity can be reversed, which could destroy circuits.Then you need the correct voltage and amperage (or wattage, which is wattage divided by voltage). More amperage than you need would not be a problem, because the device will only pull what it needs through the transformer. Too little amperage could cause a problem, but it seems you're covered on that one, anyway, because input amperege will indicate throughput capacity.
Posted by KaraS on May 26, 2005, at 15:41:28
In reply to Re: Boring electronics question » KaraS, posted by so on May 26, 2005, at 12:57:30
They're definitely both AC input and DC output.
The marking on the original one is:
(+)- .) - (-)
(The parens here are really circles)Output is 12v and 200mA
There's a (UL) and an (SP) or could be (SA) on there as well. The parens are circles here too.
On the one I want to replace it with, it hasOutput 12VAC and 1.25A
It has the same (UL) and an (SP) or could be (SA) markings on it but it doesn't have anything else. (It doesn't show anything more about + or -).
I did try it very briefly last night and it seemed to work but I was afraid to leave it on.(The biggest challenge here is trying to get my cat to stop chewing on the cords. It's driving me crazy!)
Thanks
k
Posted by so on May 26, 2005, at 16:03:58
In reply to Re: Boring electronics question, posted by KaraS on May 26, 2005, at 15:41:28
> They're definitely both AC input and DC output.
>
> The marking on the original one is:
>
> (+)- .) - (-)
> (The parens here are really circles)If I read your symbols correctly, that would be tip positive. You still need to find a matching symbol on your new plug, huh?
> Output is 12v and 200mA
>
> There's a (UL) and an (SP) or could be (SA) on there as well. The parens are circles here too.
>
>
> On the one I want to replace it with, it has
>
> Output 12VAC and 1.25AOutout 12v AC? as in Alternating Current? This would not be the correct one, unless the old one is also AC, though I can't say what effect AC voltage would have on the system -- probably a signal amplifier for your antenna. The worst risk would be fire.
> It has the same (UL) and an (SP) or could be (SA) markings on it but it doesn't have anything else. (It doesn't show anything more about + or -).UL is probably Underwriters Laboratories -- the insurance industries non-profit sanctioning agency for electric devices.
Look on the output plug -- along the side of that there is often a marking.
> (The biggest challenge here is trying to get my cat to stop chewing on the cords. It's driving me crazy!)Try soaking some cayene pepper in water overnight, then liberally applying the substance to things you would rather your cat not eat. It could be a lifesaver for your cat, if it keeps her from chewing into a 120 volt cord. And maybe an alternative toy -- maybe something with catnip.
>
Posted by KaraS on May 26, 2005, at 17:09:03
In reply to Re: Boring electronics question, posted by so on May 26, 2005, at 16:03:58
> > They're definitely both AC input and DC output.
>
>
>
> >
> > The marking on the original one is:
> >
> > (+)- .) - (-)
> > (The parens here are really circles)
>
> If I read your symbols correctly, that would be tip positive. You still need to find a matching symbol on your new plug, huh?
Can't find anything else on it.
> > Output is 12v and 200mA
> >
> > There's a (UL) and an (SP) or could be (SA) on there as well. The parens are circles here too.
> >
> >
> > On the one I want to replace it with, it has
> >
> > Output 12VAC and 1.25A
>
> Outout 12v AC? as in Alternating Current? This would not be the correct one, unless the old one is also AC, though I can't say what effect AC voltage would have on the system -- probably a signal amplifier for your antenna. The worst risk would be fire.
Probably not worth the risk then. I just hope it will be easy to find the exact thing that I need at Radio Shack or an electronics store.
> > It has the same (UL) and an (SP) or could be (SA) markings on it but it doesn't have anything else. (It doesn't show anything more about + or -).
>
> UL is probably Underwriters Laboratories -- the insurance industries non-profit sanctioning agency for electric devices.
>
> Look on the output plug -- along the side of that there is often a marking.
>
>
> > (The biggest challenge here is trying to get my cat to stop chewing on the cords. It's driving me crazy!)
>
> Try soaking some cayene pepper in water overnight, then liberally applying the substance to things you would rather your cat not eat. It could be a lifesaver for your cat, if it keeps her from chewing into a 120 volt cord. And maybe an alternative toy -- maybe something with catnip.You know I was just thinking of doing that. I had bought some jalapeno peppers in a jar with liquid and I was going to use that liquid but I like the idea of the cayene pepper better.
Thanks so much!
Kara
Posted by so on May 26, 2005, at 17:53:40
In reply to Re: Boring electronics question, posted by KaraS on May 26, 2005, at 17:09:03
> Probably not worth the risk then. I just hope it will be easy to find the exact thing that I need at Radio Shack or an electronics store.
Radio Shacek has several, but this one seems to fit your requirements:
http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&product%5Fid=273-1662For the kitty, the active ingredient in cayenne peppers is oleoresin capsicum, prefered for its safety and it's effectiveness by police departments around the world, by hikers for defense against bears, and among regular folks for personal defense against human aggressors.
A word of caution, oleoresin capsicum aerosols can fend off an aggresive bear, but applied to camping equipment, it has been known to attract bears. As long as you don't have bears coming in your house, it shouldn't be a problem.
A saucer of milk might help your kitty recover if it gets a nasty mouthful during it's first encounters.
Posted by KaraS on May 26, 2005, at 18:04:22
In reply to Re: Boring electronics question, posted by so on May 26, 2005, at 17:53:40
> > Probably not worth the risk then. I just hope it will be easy to find the exact thing that I need at Radio Shack or an electronics store.
>
> Radio Shacek has several, but this one seems to fit your requirements:
> http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&product%5Fid=273-1662
>
>
>
> For the kitty, the active ingredient in cayenne peppers is oleoresin capsicum, prefered for its safety and it's effectiveness by police departments around the world, by hikers for defense against bears, and among regular folks for personal defense against human aggressors.
>
> A word of caution, oleoresin capsicum aerosols can fend off an aggresive bear, but applied to camping equipment, it has been known to attract bears. As long as you don't have bears coming in your house, it shouldn't be a problem.
>
> A saucer of milk might help your kitty recover if it gets a nasty mouthful during it's first encounters.
>
How much cayene pepper should I add to how much water? I don't want to make it too weak to stop him but I also don't want to make it unnecessarily strong. I think cats are lactose intolerant so milk might not help. Maybe plain yogurt? However, this cat won't eat anything other than dry cat food. Maybe the smell alone will stop him from trying to chew on the cord. That would be the best outcome.Anyway, thanks again for all of your help!
k
Posted by KaraS on May 26, 2005, at 18:06:21
In reply to Re: rethinking my answer, posted by Larry Hoover on May 26, 2005, at 9:04:34
> > > Anyone know anything about plug in power supply AC adapters? My cat chewed up one that's attached to the TV antenna. I have another one here to substitute for it but I think it's more powerful. The original one has input of 120V 60Hz and 8W while the other one I have is 120V 60Hz and 23W. Would the latter one work ok (and just be overkill) or would it be dangerous to use it for some reason? I didn't compare the DC output on either of them. Is that a concern as well?
> > >
> > > K
> >
> > The output voltage is the absolutely most important detail. That, and the plug shape. The extra wattage just means the potential replacement has a higher capacity.
> >
> > Lar
>
> Forgot to consider amperage, but I have an appointment. Don't assume it's okay to substitute. Back later.
>
> Lar
Hi Lar,
I don't know if you've followed the rest of this thread, but I agree that it's too risky. I'll buy something that is exactly like the one that's damaged. Thanks, as always, for you input.Kara
Posted by so on May 26, 2005, at 18:20:42
In reply to Re: Boring electronics question » so, posted by KaraS on May 26, 2005, at 18:04:22
> How much cayene pepper should I add to how much water? I don't want to make it too weak to stop him but I also don't want to make it unnecessarily strong.
The strength has to do with how many heat units the pepper itself contains. If you're worried about it, start with a "medium" pepper, but most cayene food products aren't rated by heat units, so it's all guesswork, I suppose. I was thinking, the active ingredient is probably oil-based, and I think the commercial defense products use mineral oil as a carrier. Warming the pepper over low heat in any kind of oil might carry the oils out of the solid vegetable product into an oil carrier, which would be more likely to stick to the cords than would soggy cayene, which is what would result from soaking it in water. Just as long as the oil isn't so tasty as to be an attractant.
>I think cats are lactose intolerant so milk might not help. Maybe plain yogurt? However, this cat won't eat anything other than dry cat food. Maybe the smell alone will stop him from trying to chew on the cord. That would be the best outcome.
That's the funny thing, and where bear behavior might be relevant. It can be an attractant until the heat sensation irritates them. It seems any dairy product provides releif, but I'm not sure the method of action.
> Anyway, thanks again for all of your help!My pleasure.
Posted by KaraS on May 26, 2005, at 18:31:50
In reply to Re: Boring electronics question, posted by so on May 26, 2005, at 18:20:42
> > How much cayene pepper should I add to how much water? I don't want to make it too weak to stop him but I also don't want to make it unnecessarily strong.
>
> The strength has to do with how many heat units the pepper itself contains. If you're worried about it, start with a "medium" pepper, but most cayene food products aren't rated by heat units, so it's all guesswork, I suppose. I was thinking, the active ingredient is probably oil-based, and I think the commercial defense products use mineral oil as a carrier. Warming the pepper over low heat in any kind of oil might carry the oils out of the solid vegetable product into an oil carrier, which would be more likely to stick to the cords than would soggy cayene, which is what would result from soaking it in water. Just as long as the oil isn't so tasty as to be an attractant.
>
> >I think cats are lactose intolerant so milk might not help. Maybe plain yogurt? However, this cat won't eat anything other than dry cat food. Maybe the smell alone will stop him from trying to chew on the cord. That would be the best outcome.
>
> That's the funny thing, and where bear behavior might be relevant. It can be an attractant until the heat sensation irritates them. It seems any dairy product provides releif, but I'm not sure the method of action.
>
> > Anyway, thanks again for all of your help!
>
> My pleasure.
Wouldn't the pepper dissolve in the water - at least enough to make the water itself taste hot/spicy to the cat? I think that oils could get very messy with the carpet underneath the cords.No bears around here to worry about - just ants. Who knows maybe the bears would smell the pepper and seek out my apartment ... but I'll take my chances. :-)
k
Posted by so on May 26, 2005, at 18:45:57
In reply to Re: Boring electronics question » so, posted by KaraS on May 26, 2005, at 18:31:50
> Wouldn't the pepper dissolve in the water - at least enough to make the water itself taste hot/spicy to the cat? I think that oils could get very messy with the carpet underneath the cords.
The water will evaporate, and the only thing that would hold the pepper to the surface would be oils that were released from the peppers during soaking. At risk of looking wrong on a forum read by some chemists, I can suggest heat or soaking might break open cells in the plant material of the pepper, but I'm reasonably sure the hot part is an oil that at most might be suspended, but not dissolved, in water. Some oils are more easily suspended in water than others, and sometimes heat can change viscosity to make oils float, but we know they don't mix with water. I'm not the scientist on this, but I'm thinking a mineral oil carrier would tend to harden, like oil-based paints. It might depend on what kind of carpets you have -- they get a certain amount of oil on them anyway, from your bare feet, or from oils tracked in off of pavements.
If i were developing it for marketing, I would ask the lab to tell me how any of the products would effect the plastic insulation around wires, but I don't think that would be a problem for casual use. It will be trial and error anyway -- maybe try it with water first and if that doesn't work, modify the formula.
>
> No bears around here to worry about - just ants. Who knows maybe the bears would smell the pepper and seek out my apartment ... but I'll take my chances. :-)
>
> k
>
>
>
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 26, 2005, at 19:01:46
In reply to Re: rethinking my answer » Larry Hoover, posted by KaraS on May 26, 2005, at 18:06:21
> I don't know if you've followed the rest of this thread, but I agree that it's too risky. I'll buy something that is exactly like the one that's damaged. Thanks, as always, for you input.
>
> KaraI did follow it, and I think your replacement adapter is perfectly suited for the job. You know the plug fits (you used it). You know the voltage is right. And the wattage (capacity) far exceeds the draw of the antenna. You've actually got more transformer with this replacement. In other words, it could power five antennas, without overheating. You only need it to power one.
I second the hot pepper treatment. There is also a creamy "yuck" stuff you can get at the big pet food places, to repel pets from wires and so on. Or put some hot sauce on the wire. You won't need a lot.
Lar
Posted by so on May 26, 2005, at 19:05:26
In reply to Re: Boring electronics question, posted by so on May 26, 2005, at 18:45:57
I found this, which does not mention what I thought I read earlier about mineral oil as a carrier. It doesnt' tell us why alcohol is a good carrier, but it says it is used. Working it in a blender might help too.
"The most popular carrier for OC is isopropyl alcohol. Other options include, but are not limited to, Freon, Dymel-22, Dymel-134, Genetron-141B, methylene chloride, and water"
and I also learned that the active principle is a very strong alkaloid, capsaicin, which is found in paparika oleoresin, so the capsaicin might disolve or otherwise be suspended in water or alcohol, regardless what the oleoresin does. Alkaloids can be extracted with acids, including sometimes citric acid, but vinegar might also help suspend the active ingredient in a carrier. Is there a chemist in the house?
Posted by so on May 26, 2005, at 19:08:25
In reply to Re: rethinking my answer » KaraS, posted by Larry Hoover on May 26, 2005, at 19:01:46
Larry, based on what she found on her replacement, it seemed to be an AC-output adapter, and she couldn't determine polarity. Otherwise, I would concur with you. And yeh, hot-sauce. forget the chemistry, just get out the Tobasco.
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 26, 2005, at 21:23:17
In reply to Re: rethinking my answer, posted by so on May 26, 2005, at 19:08:25
> Larry, based on what she found on her replacement, it seemed to be an AC-output adapter, and she couldn't determine polarity. Otherwise, I would concur with you. And yeh, hot-sauce. forget the chemistry, just get out the Tobasco.
Oops. Missed the AC part.
Lar
Posted by KaraS on May 27, 2005, at 0:32:04
In reply to Re: rethinking my answer, posted by Larry Hoover on May 26, 2005, at 21:23:17
So is the consensus now that this is too risky because we're not sure of polarity? I don't understand why you would need an AC adapter where input is AC and so is output. I thought the whole point was to adapt between AC and DC? (but what do I know??) And, if the output wasn't in the right form then why did it work when I tested it?
As for the stuff to put on the wires to prevent the cat from chewing, the white creamy stuff and the tobasco sauce sound like they could get messy on my light colored carpeting. I think maybe I'll experiment with the pepper in water and in alcohol. I also have the juice from the jalapeno peppers. I bet that would work well. If not, Jasper is going to get his teeth removed!! (not really but the thought was temporarily appealing. You have no idea how many cords and adapters he has destroyed).
Posted by so on May 27, 2005, at 9:31:33
In reply to Re: rethinking my answer, posted by KaraS on May 27, 2005, at 0:32:04
> So is the consensus now that this is too risky because we're not sure of polarity? I don't understand why you would need an AC adapter where input is AC and so is output. I thought the whole point was to adapt between AC and DC? (but what do I know??) And, if the output wasn't in the right form then why did it work when I tested it?
Some of this gets into electrical engineering (and actuarial) questions beyond me unless I conduct considerable research. If you can afford the 15 bucks, the new adapter might be the surest shot. Otherwise:
The adapter does a couple things - first it serves as a transformer - reducing output voltage from 120v to 12v. We're pretty sure your spare covers that part.
Some adapters convert from AC to DC, but not all. Some circuits just need the lower voltage, and there are AC to AC transformers out there that only reduce voltage. It's beyond me to say what would be harmed by using AC voltage in any particular DC circuit. The broad group of risks to consider would be A. fire, B. damage to the device supplied voltage and C. damage to the transformer itself. But these are just broad groups -- I can't rule them in or out or say how much risk.
Then the other risk involves reversed polarity. Technically, I can't rule out fire as among the broad group of risks for reversed polarity, but instinctively and based on experience, damage to the equipment might be the only practical risks, then I can't honestly assess those risks without A. knowing something about the devices and B. studying electrical engineering.
If the device -- the antena -- works with the spare, that would seem to sugget it works. But we don't know it's not slowly damaging something. Then it becomes a matter of how much is the antena worth to you to risk finding out how long it will hold up. I have had devices fail immediately upon being supplied with current when the polarity is reversed. So your asking advice from somebody who has destroyed devices for lack of care or knowledge. And I would tend to rule out fire as a risk if the voltage is right, but I just can't based on the little I know.
Posted by KaraS on May 27, 2005, at 16:30:09
In reply to Re: rethinking my answer, posted by so on May 27, 2005, at 9:31:33
> > So is the consensus now that this is too risky because we're not sure of polarity? I don't understand why you would need an AC adapter where input is AC and so is output. I thought the whole point was to adapt between AC and DC? (but what do I know??) And, if the output wasn't in the right form then why did it work when I tested it?
>
> Some of this gets into electrical engineering (and actuarial) questions beyond me unless I conduct considerable research. If you can afford the 15 bucks, the new adapter might be the surest shot. Otherwise:
>
> The adapter does a couple things - first it serves as a transformer - reducing output voltage from 120v to 12v. We're pretty sure your spare covers that part.
>
> Some adapters convert from AC to DC, but not all. Some circuits just need the lower voltage, and there are AC to AC transformers out there that only reduce voltage. It's beyond me to say what would be harmed by using AC voltage in any particular DC circuit. The broad group of risks to consider would be A. fire, B. damage to the device supplied voltage and C. damage to the transformer itself. But these are just broad groups -- I can't rule them in or out or say how much risk.
>
> Then the other risk involves reversed polarity. Technically, I can't rule out fire as among the broad group of risks for reversed polarity, but instinctively and based on experience, damage to the equipment might be the only practical risks, then I can't honestly assess those risks without A. knowing something about the devices and B. studying electrical engineering.
>
> If the device -- the antena -- works with the spare, that would seem to sugget it works. But we don't know it's not slowly damaging something. Then it becomes a matter of how much is the antena worth to you to risk finding out how long it will hold up. I have had devices fail immediately upon being supplied with current when the polarity is reversed. So your asking advice from somebody who has destroyed devices for lack of care or knowledge. And I would tend to rule out fire as a risk if the voltage is right, but I just can't based on the little I know.
OK, thanks again. I'll pay the extra $15. It's better to be safe than sorry. Actually, it's not just $15, because I have other things to replace because of that little devil... but again, better safe than sorry.Take care,
Kara
This is the end of the thread.
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