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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 9 to 33 of 50. Go back in thread:
Posted by 64bowtie on December 25, 2004, at 20:48:29
In reply to Does evil exist? Yep! Us, ourselves, we do it! » Larry Hoover, posted by 64bowtie on December 25, 2004, at 13:02:04
Posted by 64bowtie on December 25, 2004, at 20:51:37
In reply to Nine days is a good beginning... (nm) » 64bowtie, posted by 64bowtie on December 25, 2004, at 20:48:29
Posted by Larry Hoover on December 25, 2004, at 21:17:52
In reply to Re: Does evil exist? » Larry Hoover, posted by verne on December 25, 2004, at 19:02:56
> Lar,
>
> I sent the story to my sister and she directed me to the following link questioning the authenticity of the story: http://www.positiveatheism.org/mail/eml8303.htm
>
> I want to believe it. Do you have any evidence that Einstein was the student? (Good story nonetheless)
>
> verneNo, I do not have such evidence. I like the story because it said something about human nature, i.e. how we define something changes our ability to believe the definition. It's not a property of the defined concept that determines this, but how we contextualize and phrase the definition.
I came up with this, which corroborates the "mythical" nature of this story:
http://www.snopes.com/religion/einstein.aspThat said, the lack of evidence for its provenance does not preclude it from being Einstein's. What I know of the man tells me it may be so.
Here are a selection of Einstein quotations:
I cannot believe that God plays dice with the cosmos.
The wireless telegraph is not difficult to understand. The ordinary telegraph is like a very long cat. You pull the tail in New York, and it meows in Los Angeles. The wireless is the same, only without the cat.
Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an hour. Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a minute. THAT'S relativity.
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe.
You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother.
I tried to imagine the easiest way God could have done it.
We have to do the best we can. This is our sacred human responsibility.
The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing.
Example isn't another way to teach, it is the only way to teach.
Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts.
Lar
Posted by verne on December 25, 2004, at 22:50:21
In reply to Re: Does evil exist? » verne, posted by Larry Hoover on December 25, 2004, at 21:17:52
Lar,
I agree. I don't necessarily need Einstein as the student in the story because it's a good story in itself. It works without Einstein.
Thanks for the quotes. I knew Einstein believed in more than the "seen" but I didn't know how much so. A really great selection of quotes which I will pass along.
thanks,
verne
Posted by Dinah on December 26, 2004, at 9:09:06
In reply to Re: Does evil exist? » verne, posted by Larry Hoover on December 25, 2004, at 21:17:52
Intelligence and integrity is the most attractive combination in the universe.
So I'm in love with another dead guy. Just my luck. :)
Posted by rchrdtrck on December 26, 2004, at 11:53:22
In reply to I think I'm in love » Larry Hoover, posted by Dinah on December 26, 2004, at 9:09:06
It's an Urban Legend. Albert Einstein didn't believe in a personal God like the main religions do.
Posted by Larry Hoover on December 26, 2004, at 12:25:11
In reply to Urban Legend. » Dinah, posted by rchrdtrck on December 26, 2004, at 11:53:22
> It's an Urban Legend. Albert Einstein didn't believe in a personal God like the main religions do.
Einstein was a pantheist.
Lar
Posted by Dinah on December 26, 2004, at 13:04:34
In reply to Urban Legend. » Dinah, posted by rchrdtrck on December 26, 2004, at 11:53:22
I was actually referring to the other quotes.
Posted by Gabbix2 on December 26, 2004, at 13:46:24
In reply to Re: Urban Legend. » rchrdtrck, posted by Larry Hoover on December 26, 2004, at 12:25:11
> > It's an Urban Legend. Albert Einstein didn't believe in a personal God like the main religions do.
>
> Einstein was a pantheist.
>
> Lar
>
And a plagiarist and misogynist too! : )
Posted by Larry Hoover on December 26, 2004, at 13:58:28
In reply to Re: Urban Legend., posted by Gabbix2 on December 26, 2004, at 13:46:24
> > Einstein was a pantheist.
> >
> > Lar
> >
> And a plagiarist and misogynist too! : )Probably, and without doubt, respectively.
Lar
Posted by Dinah on December 26, 2004, at 14:45:50
In reply to Re: Urban Legend. » Gabbix2, posted by Larry Hoover on December 26, 2004, at 13:58:28
Posted by Toph on December 26, 2004, at 16:01:47
In reply to Does evil exist?, posted by Larry Hoover on December 25, 2004, at 10:52:16
Hi Lar,
It's a nice story. I love the cold, I'm part Norwegian, and I like the dark, as I said, I'm part Norwegian. I think the operative word in your tale is 'man.' Without man their is neither evil nor God, just matter, which Albert knew was neither good nor evil, until man, that is. I don't know how he lived with himself.
-Toph
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 27, 2004, at 3:08:51
In reply to Urban Legend. » Dinah, posted by rchrdtrck on December 26, 2004, at 11:53:22
> It's an Urban Legend...
When you're blocked, you're not supposed to post, so I've extended the duration of your block.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforce
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by NikkiT2 on December 27, 2004, at 6:22:17
In reply to I think I'm in love » Larry Hoover, posted by Dinah on December 26, 2004, at 9:09:06
Check our Prof. Stephen Hawking Dinah.. now that guy can blow your mind.
I once had the utter pleasure of having lunch with him (and 8 others!!), and the man has serious charisma.. now, you look at his circumstances and wonder how on earth he could. But he has a wicked sense of humour, and just a twitch of his lips let you know *exactly* how he feels about things.
A truly truly amazing guy!
Nikki x
Posted by Toph on December 27, 2004, at 6:44:26
In reply to Re: Does evil exist? » Larry Hoover, posted by Toph on December 26, 2004, at 16:01:47
OK, that was harsh. But Einstein sought the truth not myths his whole life, when he wasn't cheating on his wife, that is. You can look at it this way, there's a great dichotomy - matter and no matter plus phenomena, like change, the fertile delta. There is a force to change matter opposed by a force to maintain matter. Where matter is, how it is changing, and how fast it is changing, is, of course, all relative depending on your point of view. I have no way of knowing this but I think that Einstein, like me, like all of us including the most arrogant among us (on Earth not on PB), alternate between believing there is a God and believing there is no God. These beliefs can change in time, thank God, at least from my point of view.
Here's some postcards from a manic mind:
There are three basic drives in man: 1) to procreate, 2) to self propetuate, and 3) to self-pleasurate (I wanted 3 p's). Then there are three basic sins: 1) lying, 2) stealing and 3) hating. Mix them together and a whole lot of bad can happen. Make some rules about the second three (and their variations) and a whole lot of good can happen. I don't care who gets credit for the rules, I'm just glad they're there. The rules need to be relatively flexible depending on your point of view and man-made concepts of mercy, fairness and justice.
Here's what I have trouble with. Is knowlegde an inherently good thing or a bad thing? This apple that spoils the garden, that knocks some sense into Newton, that once split can kill efficiently and indiscriminately, is seductively powerful and dangerous. Is knowledge itself inherently evil or just how we apply it? When we figure out soon how to stop aging, how to clone ourselves to harvest organs to perpetuate our lives, who will govern this science? When we have computers and other technology (if we don't already) capable of monitoring and analyzing everyone's behavior will we use it? If Einstein made the deadly choice between bomb or no bomb presumably driven by the need to self-perpetuate his culture, who will be smart enough to lead the world to a place where truth prevails over lies, sharing is valued more than having, and love conquers hate?
-Toph
Posted by Atticus on December 27, 2004, at 20:27:07
In reply to Does evil exist?, posted by Larry Hoover on December 25, 2004, at 10:52:16
Albert Einstein was lucky enough not to live to see Barney the purple dinosaur -- pure unmitigated evil if ever I encountered it. Brrrr... Atticus
Posted by Jai Narayan on December 28, 2004, at 8:48:18
In reply to Re: Does evil exist? » Larry Hoover, posted by Atticus on December 27, 2004, at 20:27:07
> Albert Einstein was lucky enough not to live to see Barney the purple dinosaur -- pure unmitigated evil if ever I encountered it. Brrrr... Atticus
***okay shouldn't this be redirected to faith?
Or political?
or maybe relationship...
it could be eating...
(this whole conversation has made me hungry)...
Jai who just masticated a Barney burger
Posted by Toph on December 28, 2004, at 11:33:56
In reply to Re: Does evil exist?, posted by Toph on December 27, 2004, at 6:44:26
When I get manicy, I really start talking out my butt. I don't recognize much of what I said, but I must have thought it was important at the time.
Posted by Angel Girl on December 28, 2004, at 18:49:23
In reply to Does evil exist?, posted by Larry Hoover on December 25, 2004, at 10:52:16
Larry
I do believe that evil exists and that God created everything BUT God did not create evil. God gave man 'free will' and with that free will MAN CREATED EVIL.
God created a peaceful, loving and perfect world. It was MAN who screwed it up using his/her free will that God gave him.
AG
Posted by henrietta on December 28, 2004, at 19:15:20
In reply to Re: Does evil exist? » Larry Hoover, posted by Angel Girl on December 28, 2004, at 18:49:23
But then there's that Abraham slash Isaac story. (Do I have the names right?)
I would call it evil to demand that a father murder his child to please some voice,to demonstrate loyalty to some force or power beyond the daily loves and loyalties and natural human affinities and responsibilities... yes, I know the character called g*d did not in the end demand this sacrifice, but by then the deep damage had been done. The betrayal had been accomplished. This, to me, is evil, and I've never been able to understand how anyone could respect a g*d who behaved in this narcissistic, abusive manner. Maybe someone could explain it to me? I'd be grateful for an explanation.
Posted by Angel Girl on December 28, 2004, at 19:49:39
In reply to Re: Does evil exist? » Angel Girl, posted by henrietta on December 28, 2004, at 19:15:20
I hesitated to put in my 2 cents worth before because of my extreme lack of bible knowledge and I should've resisted I guess because I'm not familiar of the Bible story of which you speak. Maybe someone else knows?
AG
Posted by just plain jane on December 29, 2004, at 17:05:52
In reply to Does evil exist?, posted by Larry Hoover on December 25, 2004, at 10:52:16
there is an equal and opposite reaction.
If good exists, so does evil.
While working as a volunteer in the school library some years back, I had some HS kids come sit at the table where I was working. These three lads were the "bad" kids in their pretty bad class.
One of them, the rather intelligent one, said to me, "I don't believe in God. I believe in the devil."
Now, I knew these kids, and I knew they knew I was a Sunday School teacher at the time. They were just trying to "shock" me. (Hilarious, given my lurid past.)
I replied, "Without God, there is no reason for the devil."
Still my take on the subject.
just plain won't argue jane
Posted by Angel Girl on December 29, 2004, at 17:51:20
In reply to for every action, posted by just plain jane on December 29, 2004, at 17:05:52
> there is an equal and opposite reaction.
>
> If good exists, so does evil.
>
> While working as a volunteer in the school library some years back, I had some HS kids come sit at the table where I was working. These three lads were the "bad" kids in their pretty bad class.
>
> One of them, the rather intelligent one, said to me, "I don't believe in God. I believe in the devil."
>
> Now, I knew these kids, and I knew they knew I was a Sunday School teacher at the time. They were just trying to "shock" me. (Hilarious, given my lurid past.)
>
> I replied, "Without God, there is no reason for the devil."
>
> Still my take on the subject.
>
> just plain won't argue jane
>
jpjI wish I could get you in the same room as my 27yr old son. He claims to be an anthiest. Doesn't believe in God but does believe in the devil. Also doesn't believe in angels, although Satan is a fallen angel, of which he also doesn't believe. He also doesn't believe in Heaven, not sure what his belief is in Hell. He believes we developed from apes but when I ask him where the apes come from, he doesn't know. I would love for someone who is a knowledgable Christian to debate beliefs with him. As a Christian myself, but not a very good one, it saddens me deeply that he doesn't believe in God. However; at least I can be happy in the fact that he is not a Satan worshipper either.
So, you didn't say how those kids responded to your answer???
AG
Posted by Dave001 on December 29, 2004, at 20:56:59
In reply to Re: Does evil exist? » verne, posted by Larry Hoover on December 25, 2004, at 21:17:52
> Here are a selection of Einstein quotations:
>
> I cannot believe that God plays dice with the cosmos.I once read a witty retort to that quote: "God does play dice with the universe. But they're loaded dice..." It was quoted in James Gleick's "Chaos," but originated from Joseph Ford.
Dave
Posted by Dave001 on December 31, 2004, at 18:18:03
In reply to Re: for every action » just plain jane, posted by Angel Girl on December 29, 2004, at 17:51:20
> I wish I could get you in the same room as my 27yr old son. He claims to be an anthiest. Doesn't believe in God but does believe in the devil. Also
Although your reply was directed toward someone else, I thought I'd chime in here and point out that it is at least inconsistent to believe in a "the devil," without believing in "God."
> doesn't believe in angels, although Satan is a fallen angel, of which he also doesn't believe. He also doesn't believe in Heaven, not sure what his belief is in Hell. He believes we developed from apes but when I ask him where the apes come from, he doesn't know. I would love for someone who is a
Well, to stimulate his critical thinking process, ask him about his thoughts on the origin of the devil. Granted, I don't know your son, but since he said he believes man evolved from apes, you might consider that he was being facetious when he expressed a belief in a devil.
> knowledgable Christian to debate beliefs with him. As a Christian myself, but not a very good one, it saddens me deeply that he doesn't believe in God. However; at least I can be happy in the fact that he is not a Satan worshipper either.
>Oh God (no pun intended), Nietzsche would have a field day here. I love a good debate on religion, but this isn't the place for it. As an atheist, I'd no doubt say something resulting in me being banned, albeit unintentionally. We heretics always have a way of getting burned (pun intended). ;-)
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