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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Angela2 on November 3, 2004, at 11:48:00
In reply to Who are all these people voting for Bush????, posted by jay on November 2, 2004, at 22:58:26
> I don't get it! Must be a LOT of very wealthy people living in America, because they are the only ones who will benefit from Bush. Period...end of story.
>
> JayAmerica is not going to automatically become this better place if we vote for John Kerry. Kerry doesn't even have a plan for the war on terror.
Posted by KaraS on November 3, 2004, at 12:47:16
In reply to Who are all these people voting for Bush????, posted by jay on November 2, 2004, at 22:58:26
I think that Rupert Murdoch and the right-wing media have been distorting the truth and it is frightening to me. The majority of people do not seem to understand that invading Iraq had nothing to do with terrorism (no WMDs, no ties to Al Queda at the time). The comment about Bush being a corporation in disguise is dead on. Bush is not bright enough to run the country. He's just a figurehead representing right-wing interests. This is a very sad day for America and the world.
Posted by KaraS on November 3, 2004, at 14:37:19
In reply to Re: Who are all these people voting for Bush????, posted by alesta on November 3, 2004, at 2:58:09
> excellent point, jay. tax cuts for the very,very rich; tons of anti-environment legislation; going to war with Iraq instead of going after the terrorists (no weapons of mass destruction have been found, and no connection to Al-Qaeda established), thus diverting our valuable resources from terrorism; alienating the rest of the world, taking us from a fully balanced budget to record deficitswithin 4 years, poor handling of the war in iraq, i could go on...you got me.
>
> amy
Amy,That sums it all up perfectly!
Kara
Posted by SLS on November 3, 2004, at 14:52:21
In reply to Who are all these people voting for Bush????, posted by jay on November 2, 2004, at 22:58:26
I think many of the people who voted for Bush were voting for a symbol or what they perceived as strength and morality.
- Scott
Posted by mair on November 3, 2004, at 16:19:55
In reply to Re: Who are all these people voting for Bush????, posted by Zena on November 3, 2004, at 8:42:25
I could construct a pretty decent argument that Bush is one of the most immoral presidents we've ever had, and certainly the least-attuned to the US Constitution which I fully expect will become even more of a casualty than it has been in the last 4 years.
Our forebearers came over here to avoid religious prosecution. There are far too many people in this country now who seem to think it ought to be a theocracy - and what does that say to all of the non-Christians in the world?
In my opinion those who feel Bush's Christianity is all-important stand hand in hand with those who want hardline islamic governments in the middle east.
Posted by mair on November 3, 2004, at 16:26:58
In reply to Re: Who are all these people voting for Bush????, posted by Wildman on November 3, 2004, at 10:46:22
"Do you want this country to remain divided?"Let's not forget that Bush marched into the White House 4 years ago and proceeded to act as if he had won by a landslide. We have a huge divide in this country because the Bush Administration and the Republicans in Congress have mostly acted as if they cared about no one in this country who wasn't part of their "base." I know tons of people who's antipathy for Bush derives largely from his insensitivity towards the opinions of those who might disagree with him.
Posted by fayeroe on November 3, 2004, at 16:38:11
In reply to Re: Who are all these people voting for Bush????, posted by mair on November 3, 2004, at 16:26:58
Amen, mair......Thank you for clarifying what's really going on with this administration. Pat
Posted by mair on November 3, 2004, at 16:49:26
In reply to Re: Who are all these people voting for Bush???? » mair, posted by fayeroe on November 3, 2004, at 16:38:11
I'm sure I'll burn is psychobabble hell for those posts, but I'm just too angry to care.
Posted by Dinah on November 3, 2004, at 16:58:51
In reply to Re: Who are all these people voting for Bush????, posted by SLS on November 3, 2004, at 14:52:21
Scott, I appreciate your civility, and I certainly wouldn't be averse to talking demographics and elections with someone who isn't ready to condemn an entire majority of the electorate. I think the answer may be more complex than mere morality, or Clinton wouldn't have appealed to many of the same voters that Gore and Kerry were unable to carry. Perceived strength, or more likely strength of purpose may also play a role, although again... But at any rate, as a social conservative I would have voted for Tsongas had he won the nomination because I liked his strength of purpose, even if it didn't mirror mine.
I suspect it may be just a matter of social values. Clinton came across as a democrat who understood the social values of much of the south and the rural areas of most of the nation. Whether or not he shared them, I have no idea. But he seemed to understand and respect them. I think the democratic party's best bet for the white house would be another candidate like that. The large liberal states are unlikely to vote for Republicans, so it would seem wise to factor the South and rural American into a choice of nominee.
Personality often plays a part, but I'm not sure it did in this election. While it's true that the stiffer candidates have fared very poorly since Nixon, Bush doesn't give one the warm fuzzies either.
But the gains for Republicans in the House and Senate seem to validate the social values theory - something deeper than Bush alone. Even the loss of a Senate seat in Colorado for the Republicans seemed to pivot on social values issues.
I think that once the dust settles and passions cool, the Democrats could really benefit from looking at the demographics involved and work to adapt to that rather than just work on mobilizing the vote in their base. They did a bang up job at that, but that's not enough. Especially with some of the changing ethnic demographics with population growth in minorities that are basically conservative in outlook.
Just my 2 cents.
Posted by Dinah on November 3, 2004, at 17:03:29
In reply to Re: Who are all these people voting for Bush???? » SLS, posted by Dinah on November 3, 2004, at 16:58:51
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/president/
If you go to each state and look at the county by county breakdowns, and go to the Senate and House race results as well, it illustrates my point nicely.
Posted by fayeroe on November 3, 2004, at 19:33:01
In reply to Who are all these people voting for Bush????, posted by jay on November 2, 2004, at 22:58:26
Jay, the administration here panders to the wealthy pals of his family and they poured so much money into the campaign that we lost.And when you appeal to the fear and prejudice of people, this is the result. I'm still reeling. My grandchildren will be paying the bills on this mess for years. I figured out how much each Oklahoman has paid for the war in Iraq and it is at $444.88 right now and rising. The cost of the war is $150 billion and also rising. And I didn't mention the personal liberties that we've lost (patriot act) and will continue to lose. Women stand to suffer the most. I may get a PBC over this, but it's the truth. I'm thinking about learning Spanish and doing my nursing in Mexico.
Posted by verne on November 3, 2004, at 19:55:00
In reply to Re: Who are all these people voting for Bush???? » jay, posted by fayeroe on November 3, 2004, at 19:33:01
I hear you. $150 billion, thousands killed, thousands maimed and for what? Saddam Hussein? He was a lightweight tyrannt on the world stage who was already boxed in.
The cause, perhaps, was noble enough but at what cost?
verne
Posted by alesta on November 3, 2004, at 22:44:22
In reply to Re: Who are all these people voting for Bush????, posted by Angela2 on November 3, 2004, at 11:48:00
> Kerry doesn't even have a plan for the war on terror.
and bush does? i'm sure kerry could come up with a much better plan than bush if he were to take office. do you honestly consider bush's actions the result of planning and careful thought? invading a country that had nothing to do with the terrorist attacks, and lying to the american ppl? kerry is a thoughtful, intelligent person, and bush is...well..not.
<America is not going to automatically become this better place if we vote for John Kerry.
i beg to differ. it will prevent bush from doing any further damage and destruction to our country, and it would let kerry replace some of bush's policies to help fix some of the damage. i have a feeling that 911 may have even been prevented if we had had another president who heeded the warnings we were given.
i think one reason many americans voted for bush b/c he's christian, so they think he has moral values. just because bush is christain doesn't make him moral.
amy
Posted by alesta on November 3, 2004, at 22:46:41
In reply to Re: Who are all these people voting for Bush???? » alesta, posted by KaraS on November 3, 2004, at 14:37:19
Posted by fayeroe on November 3, 2004, at 22:49:07
In reply to Re: Who are all these people voting for Bush???? » Angela2, posted by alesta on November 3, 2004, at 22:44:22
When someone goes into an ill-advised war with no exit strategy and tells the citizens that the soldiers will be greeted with flowers.....that makes him a better president to have in a war??????? I don't think so.......we've spent over $150 billion, over a thousand of our soldiers have been killed and over 5,000 maimed, never to be the same again....a small goat could do better than that!!!
Posted by KaraS on November 3, 2004, at 22:50:58
In reply to thanks, kara dahling! that's kind of u dear.:-) (nm) » KaraS, posted by alesta on November 3, 2004, at 22:46:41
Amy,
Not kind - just true!
I copied your post to send to a friend of mine who voted for Bush. Think I'm going to copy part of your next post too and send it to her.
Kara
Posted by KaraS on November 3, 2004, at 23:15:19
In reply to Re: Who are all these people voting for Bush???? » fayeroe, posted by mair on November 3, 2004, at 16:49:26
> I'm sure I'll burn is psychobabble hell for those posts, but I'm just too angry to care.
You won't be there alone!
K
Posted by alesta on November 3, 2004, at 23:17:17
In reply to Re: Who are all these people voting for Bush???? » alesta, posted by fayeroe on November 3, 2004, at 22:49:07
> When someone goes into an ill-advised war with no exit strategy and tells the citizens that the soldiers will be greeted with flowers.....that makes him a better president to have in a war??????? I don't think so.......we've spent over $150 billion, over a thousand of our soldiers have been killed and over 5,000 maimed, never to be the same again....a small goat could do better than that!!!
hi fayeroe, i think you meant to post this to angela, hon? (i agree with you.) :-)
amy :)
Posted by fayeroe on November 3, 2004, at 23:26:25
In reply to Re: Who are all these people voting for Bush???? » fayeroe, posted by mair on November 3, 2004, at 16:49:26
Well, hon, I've got two buckets of water!!!
Posted by Sad Panda on November 4, 2004, at 2:00:11
In reply to Re: Who are all these people voting for Bush????, posted by Wildman on November 3, 2004, at 10:46:22
"I do think that we are more secure than if we had not acted at all."
That's an illusion. The war in Iraq is producing the perfect breeding ground for disenchanted young men & reinforcing their beief that Cristians & especially Anglo-Saxons are the cause of their problems.
The war waged upon Afghanistan was barely tolerable, but attacking Iraq is clearly not in the interest of anyone that isn't from there.
"That having been said, we certainly are safer as a result of winning the cold war"
What would lead you to that delusion? In a cash strapped Russia there is more chance of a nuclear weapon falling in to the wrong hands. During the cold war it would more likely be an American that would start a nuclear war.
Posted by Sad Panda on November 4, 2004, at 2:17:11
In reply to Re: Who are all these people voting for Bush????, posted by KaraS on November 3, 2004, at 12:47:16
> I think that Rupert Murdoch and the right-wing media have been distorting the truth and it is frightening to me. The majority of people do not seem to understand that invading Iraq had nothing to do with terrorism (no WMDs, no ties to Al Queda at the time). The comment about Bush being a corporation in disguise is dead on. Bush is not bright enough to run the country. He's just a figurehead representing right-wing interests. This is a very sad day for America and the world.
>
>Nice post Kara, spot on.
Our freshly re-elected prime minister, John Howard, is going to be overturning media ownership laws so that Murdoch can control more of our media. :/
Cheers,
Paul
Posted by KaraS on November 4, 2004, at 2:33:22
In reply to Murdoch » KaraS, posted by Sad Panda on November 4, 2004, at 2:17:11
> > I think that Rupert Murdoch and the right-wing media have been distorting the truth and it is frightening to me. The majority of people do not seem to understand that invading Iraq had nothing to do with terrorism (no WMDs, no ties to Al Queda at the time). The comment about Bush being a corporation in disguise is dead on. Bush is not bright enough to run the country. He's just a figurehead representing right-wing interests. This is a very sad day for America and the world.
> >
> >
>
> Nice post Kara, spot on.
>
> Our freshly re-elected prime minister, John Howard, is going to be overturning media ownership laws so that Murdoch can control more of our media. :/
>
> Cheers,
> Paul
Thanks and how frightening is that! Amazing how much trouble one person can cause. Yes, I was sorry to read that John Howard got re-elected. I think I read that it was probably because of your healthy economy despite the fact that most Australians don't agree with his stance on Iraq.Cheers,
Kara
Posted by Sad Panda on November 4, 2004, at 2:37:15
In reply to Re: Who are all these people voting for Bush????, posted by Zena on November 3, 2004, at 8:42:25
> Seems like Bush won on the moral issues. They are more important than the rest of the stuff. He's a Christian.Put God first & everything falls into place. I know that for a fact.
>
>
>I found this kind of talk of Allah or God to be truely frightening.
There is no moral difference between Middle Eastern Muslim Terrorists flying planes in to buildings full of civilians in America & Western World Christian Military shoting or dropping bombs on civilians in Iraq. Both of these things are despicable.
Cheer,
Paul.
Posted by Sad Panda on November 4, 2004, at 3:04:47
In reply to Re: Murdoch » Sad Panda, posted by KaraS on November 4, 2004, at 2:33:22
> > > I think that Rupert Murdoch and the right-wing media have been distorting the truth and it is frightening to me. The majority of people do not seem to understand that invading Iraq had nothing to do with terrorism (no WMDs, no ties to Al Queda at the time). The comment about Bush being a corporation in disguise is dead on. Bush is not bright enough to run the country. He's just a figurehead representing right-wing interests. This is a very sad day for America and the world.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Nice post Kara, spot on.
> >
> > Our freshly re-elected prime minister, John Howard, is going to be overturning media ownership laws so that Murdoch can control more of our media. :/
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Paul
>
>
> Thanks and how frightening is that! Amazing how much trouble one person can cause. Yes, I was sorry to read that John Howard got re-elected. I think I read that it was probably because of your healthy economy despite the fact that most Australians don't agree with his stance on Iraq.
>
> Cheers,
> Kara
>
>Right wing politics here in Australia are on a par with what you have in America. This time Howard & the Liberals got re-elected because middle Australia is mortgaged up to the eye balls, last time he got re-elected 3 years ago was because he was turning refugee boats around or locking refugees up in the middle of a desert(Woomera).
I have left wing leanings because I enjoy having free doctors, hospitals, drugs, free education & good social security that doesn't leave people starving in the gutter.
Cheers,
Paul.
Posted by Shadowplayers721 on November 4, 2004, at 4:39:44
In reply to Who are all these people voting for Bush????, posted by jay on November 2, 2004, at 22:58:26
As for myself, I believe that these folks that continue to stay in their positions of power are not what they seem. This will be the 3rd time a Bush has been in office for president. Isn't that enough power plays. Where there is power, you know the rest. I believe we see acts and a lot of them on tv. I don't believe in politicians in general. I think they are actors. They dress and act certain ways to sell themselves to "the people". I am fed up with this circus. I watched the debates and again it was rehearsed statements that sounded good. Much of what they say is really nothing. Both guys didn't really give good specifics. In politics, you really never get that. Why? They don't want to offend anyone or anything. After the debates, no matter what the guys said or didn't say, their side thought they were excellent. I was thinking didn't they hear this guy stutter on many topics or totally not answer the question. I thought many times - "These politians must think I am totally ignorant. They talk to 'the people' like they are 4 years old." They really don't say much of anything. They may just give a buzz word like "education". Oh, that's sounds good. Yeah, well tell me what you will do with this education. How will you educate? Who will you educate? How much will this cost? Where in the dickens will you get this money to educate these people who you say need education? What will you expect to happen from this education? Where are all these high paying jobs going to be for these people with this education? They can't give you answers.
Oh, I am supposed to vote for this guy, because he said God one time. hmmmmmm They are totally playing words. They can't say what they really think or what the real issue is. They act like puppets. I see even their mannerisms are totally acted. It seems that it's more important for them to stand straight and not show true emotion. It's seems like the tv elects presidents. I see preachers telling people who to vote for on the religion channels too. I am thinking - "I think that I can determine that for myself". There were many other people on the ballot that never get a chance that may be more moral and have great ideas. But, we will never know. The others never get a chance. These men are chosen for us.
So, here's to more of the same ole thing and the games just continue...Cheers to politics
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