![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 51 to 75 of 75. Go back in thread:
Posted by fallsfall on October 19, 2004, at 1:39:43
In reply to Re: Urge,Plan,Tools - Suicide » fallsfall, posted by corafree on October 17, 2004, at 21:15:07
Corafree,
I sent you Babble mail. I'd like to talk to you.
Falls.
Posted by fallsfall on October 19, 2004, at 1:39:48
In reply to Re: Urge,Plan,Tools - Suicide » fallsfall, posted by corafree on October 17, 2004, at 21:15:07
It sounds to me like you really do have some pretty difficult things going on right now. And I know how it feels to believe that it is not a life worth living. But I also know how I felt that way one day, but a month later I really did feel differently (not that life was wonderful, or anything, but that it was at least worth working a little longer to see if things might improve. I guess the difference was that I found a little hope - after I thought that all of the hope was gone). So, at least for me, things did turn around - so I know that it *is* possible for them to turn around.
But, I also know that when things were so awful for me, that I really needed some help. Do you have a therapist? If you do, how long have you been going and how often do you you see him/her? Please call your therapist on Monday. It is OK to need help sometimes, and a sign of strength if you can ask for the help you need (and you did ask your ex for help...). If you don't have a therapist, please call your GP and see if he can give you a referral. I know you don't want to spend money on this, but your kids would rather have you around and have a little debt than have you gone. I know that it seems like your oldest doesn't want you around, but sometimes time can change things like that (plus she is in the middle of wicked hormonal fluctuations right now). Please give her a chance to come around.
Try to find someone to talk to tomorrow. And please post to let us know how you are doing. Do you know how to use the Babble chat room "Open"? Let me know if you need information on how to get there.
Things did improve for me - please give it a little time to see if they can improve for you.
Posted by corafree on October 19, 2004, at 1:39:53
In reply to Re: Urge,Plan,Tools - Suicide, posted by shrinking violet on October 17, 2004, at 10:59:09
Hey! I feel exhausted and am hanging back from the outside world a bit. It can come to me if it needs something. Just did a little breathing exercise. I didn't realize I was going around w/ such a frown on my face, until got to the face part. The issues are still there. I was totally constipated (like seven days) because I have a chronic illness for which I take a narcotic, and Dulcolax did wonders for that - but pretty much messed up everything else. Fact of life! You all are like family. love cf
> Oh Cora, I'm so sorry I wasn't here. I hope you're all right, and that you received the help you needed. Let us know.
>
>
Posted by corafree on October 19, 2004, at 3:48:23
In reply to Re: Urge Plan Tools Suicide » corafree, posted by Larry Hoover on October 18, 2004, at 19:31:44
Well I do know what has happened to me. I or someone expected nothing but the best from me. And, at one time I was. Then, an imperfection was not tolerated by my first husband. I loved him so much, and I can truly say I was ignorantly unaware that people who say they love you, someday may say they don't. It was then that I fought my imperfection and began to search out how to be perfect again. The search has never ended. The search has taken me around the country, to a different man who says he loves me and then says he doesn't anymore, because I guess I never fixed myself. Well, I am fixing myself correctly now. No drugs (at least not illegal ones), no alcohol. The losers will hit the road...especially the ones that have held me down. I will do my best to learn skills to repair a scrambled heart. My children just don't want me to go away. How do I get to the hotline? Anyone reading this, I like not having to dress up for you, seriously! tks lar...can you pls direct me to the chat? cf
> > Lar, I'm sorry but I deleted your babble because I was afraid, didn't know your name. I'll see if it is still in my deleted files. Do you have a problem w/ suicidal ideation (seems like I go 3 to sometimes 4 months w/o), as I do? cf
>
> That's okay, though babblemail is about as safe as anything could be.
>
> I do get suicidal, ya, but I was just trying to reach out, once I saw your message. I bet you I could do better than one of those hotline people.
>
> Lar
Posted by fallsfall on October 19, 2004, at 9:08:05
In reply to Re: Urge Plan Tools Suicide » Larry Hoover, posted by corafree on October 19, 2004, at 3:48:23
Hi Corafree,
I hope that you are feeling a little hope today.
You have said a couple of things that I wanted to ask you about...
>>>in hospital care, I would not be allowed to take my pain medication
I have been in psych hospitals and my experience is that they *do* want you to take the medication that you usually take. They would not want you to be in physical pain along with your emotional pain. As long as what you are taking has a Dr. prescription or is over-the-counter (and you are following label directions), I can't see why they wouldn't let you take it.
>>>He let me lie beside him, cry about daughter dejecting me for her newborn and the father, cry about no one loving me (not explaining the rejection by the new door-slammer), cry about financial no-win situation and putting my other daughter in poorhouse, cry about growing old alone, cry about being bad.
First, I'm glad that you had the strength to ask for help. It would be nice if you had some alternatives to your abusive ex, but it sounds like for that moment, it was a helpful choice for you to make. It takes courage to ask for help - be proud of yourself for doing so.
You have a new grandchild!! That is exciting, but I can tell that you are very hurt by your daughter's reaction. I'm a little confused, though. Has she refused to see you? to let you meet your grandchild? Or did I see something about you offering to watch the baby when she goes back to work? Remember that your daughter is going through a lot right now, and she might not be her most logical self. Can you let us know more about this situation?
I certainly know how it feels to think that noone loves me. I have a habit of seeing things in black or white (they even call this black and white thinking) - things are all or nothing. Either I'm fine, or I'm completely awful. Either I am loved, or noone loves me. I am trying (very hard, boy is this hard for me) to see that things usually aren't all one way or all another. If you ever think this way (they call it a "cognitive distortion") then maybe this is one of those times. From what you have written on this board, your youngest daughter loves you. So there is one! That means that "noone loves you" isn't true (sorry, I'm a Math major...) - because she does. You may not have the love that you want from all of the people who you wish would love you, but you *DO* have her love. Sometimes I find that I have to hold on to things like that to make it through. Can you call your youngest daughter and talk to her on the phone? Or is her husband at home (he seems supportive of you, too)?
The door slammer - I don't quite know what to think of him - you haven't given us many details. If he is a good man, but just got angry, then he could be wonderful. People can get angry without hating you. People can get angry and then get over it. For me, my black and white thinking would get involved with this, too. I would say "He slammed the door and is angry. Therefore he hates me and will never be a good companion for me". That view is probably a bit extreme. Whether this argument can be gotten over depends on who you are, who he is, and how your relationship works. Do you have a "gut feel" about this guy?
Finances and putting your daughter in the poor house... This is a complicated one, too. Are you working? Do you have health insurance? Your daughter would not be helping you if she didn't want to. I can understand that you want to be self sufficient, but sometimes that takes a little time. Can you accept that just for now you need her help? As you get stronger, you can work on a plan to become more self sufficient. All of us need help at one time or another. I am on SSDI now - I wish that I could work and support myself, but right now I can't. There have been many times when my parents have given me money - I wish I didn't have to take it, and I'm working towards a time when I don't have to, but for right now, I need some help. And that's OK. It sounds like you need some help, too. That's OK, too.
Growing old alone... Things can change in the future. You met the door slammer, didn't you? You didn't know him before. Perhaps you will meet someone else? I don't have a significant other now (I was married for 19 1/2 years), but I do have some wonderful friends. People are out there who want to get to know you. It can be really hard to do the "social" thing (I fight this every day), but slowly, over time, you can meet people who will keep you from feeling so alone. You already did - you found us!!
"Crying about being bad". Boy, does this strike a nerve with me! Even though I know that I do have good qualities, I still feel like I am bad/evil/incompetent/failure most of the time. It is so painful to feel this way. I have been able to see that I do have *some* good qualities. But it is really hard to see that. One thing that helps me sometimes is when someone says to me "Based on what you have learned in your life, I can see why you feel that way (or I can see why you did what you did)" We *do* do things for a reason. It may not always be clear to the outside world (or even to us) why we do what we do, but there *is* a reason. I'm guessing that you aren't a bad person (you have too much compassion in your writing for me to think you are a bad person)... But I know that it is sometimes really hard to believe this ourselves.
Perfection - don't get me started on perfection. I am really trying to believe that I demand more of myself than the world does. That the world is really more forgiving than I am. Just because he slammed the door doesn't mean that you did anything *wrong*... nor, even if you did behave in a way that you wish you didn't, that you can't change things in the future.
>>>My children just don't want me to go away.
This is the reason to keep trying, to ask for help. They don't want you to go away. And you don't want to miss seeing them be the wonderful people they are.
Sometimes things can look very, very dark. Please reach out for help. If you don't have a therapist, please try to start seeing one. If this seems hard, tell us why it is hard, we have each been through our own struggles, maybe we would have a suggestion that will help.
Posted by corafree on October 19, 2004, at 18:09:01
In reply to Re: Urge,Plan,Tools - Suicide » corafree, posted by Poet on October 17, 2004, at 17:09:37
Poet, I'm lost in here somewhere. I can't access a lot of posts.
I am a bit disheveled, but what the heck, don't care so much if look perfect right now.
Tks for concern re: granddaughter, and it has taken my mind off my selfishness. I'm afraid that the two children who stay w/ my 5-d/o granddaughter (the father's children) from Fri eve until Mon morn, haven't been pneumo vaccinated yet. Also, caretakers of infants are entitled to flu shot and should get them, and my daughter and father have not done so. Chevelle (granddaughter) has a high-pitched sound when breathing. I am going to get them a pkg of paper masks, some rubber gloves, and some anti-bacterial spray or wipes...try stretch what little $ have.
This is awful, but, Daisy, what was your advice? Did you mean I was given the gift of being a good mother??? Was that it? Then, do I tell myself, I was given the gift of also being a good grandmother???
tks poet cf
> Cora,
>
> I'm so sorry that you were all alone in that dark place. I'm sorry that I wasn't on line to help you, but Daisy's advice was wonderful. I hope you followed it.
>
> Please let us know that you are okay. Many of us have been in that cold dark place, I know I have. We care about you.
>
> (((((((Cora))))))))
>
> Poet
Posted by corafree on October 19, 2004, at 18:14:02
In reply to Re: Urge,Plan,Tools - Suicide, posted by shortelise on October 17, 2004, at 0:58:58
Yes thank god and all of you, I am.
Have not been able to access posts.
Doc B re-directed traffic and I guess I couldn't follow the signs. cf
> Hey Cora,
>
> Are you there
>
Posted by corafree on October 19, 2004, at 18:26:05
In reply to Re: Urge,Plan,Tools - Suicide, posted by alexandra_k on October 17, 2004, at 18:52:14
AK -
Yes invalidation is the worse!
I do need to call my therapist ... she hasn't heard from me since on my way to daughter's delivery! She said 'have a happy time',...boy will she be set back a bit!
I sent an email to Jerry(?) and it reminded me what said to him; remember the times when things changed in a day, things got better, and will.
Jerry, wherever you are on Dr.B, hope I didn't upset you by saying that.
AK - Do you have my illness or a similar one?
> Hi there, it sounds like you are having a hard time of things at the moment. Do you have a clinician that you can talk to - a T or something?
>
> I know that sometimes things can seem hard and that there seems to be little hope that things will improve. I know that when I am in that place the absolute last thing that I want to hear is 'things will get better' as it invalidates my distress. But it is true.
>
> Sometimes all we can do it try to take simple pleasures in the moment, like pets, baths, walks, etc.
>
> I do hope that you hang in there and that things get better for you soon.
>
> You are in my thoughts.
>
> a_k9
Posted by fallsfall on October 19, 2004, at 21:27:47
In reply to Invalidation » alexandra_k, posted by corafree on October 19, 2004, at 18:26:05
This post is fairly old, but I think it's still pretty accurate. I hope to see you in Open soon!
Posted by Poet on October 20, 2004, at 12:33:20
In reply to suicidal ideation down - you all helped greatly » Poet, posted by corafree on October 19, 2004, at 18:09:01
Hi Coralee,
Babble has put a little light at the end of that dark tunnel for me many times. I agree with Fallsfall, if you can get into open try it out. Sometimes no one else is there, but when others are it can be really helpful to have people you can talk with who answer right away.
Take care. Try to keep a light on in the dark.
Poet
Posted by Sebastian on October 22, 2004, at 20:41:09
In reply to Urge Plan Tools Suicide, posted by corafree on October 16, 2004, at 23:37:41
Ya, all that , friday and I'm afraid to go out and have fun.
Posted by corafree on October 23, 2004, at 9:49:06
In reply to Re: Urge Plan Tools Suicide » corafree, posted by fallsfall on October 19, 2004, at 9:08:05
It was so good to look back at your post.
Yep, can't go to hospital because they won't allow me my pain med for busted cervical discs.
The door slammer walked out of my life last night. I feel hurt, really bad, even though I wasn't real sure how much I felt love for him. Rejection throws me into such panic! I usually sleep 'til 10+ a.m., but awoke to an anxiety attack @ 5:30.
My parents helped me a bit when father was alive, but my mother just will not. I guess it is a part of her aging, feeling insecure,...but I just can't imagine how a woman who inherited so much just two years ago, could feel insecure. She has decided it is time to look after herself before anyone else. She didn't used to be like that.
I had been staying out by the children, but my mother wants to sell that house, so thought I'd better come back to my little rental. Since arriving, I've felt so lonely. I just can't see the light at the end of the tunnel. I like the way poet says 'keep a light on when it's dark'. Kind of means a lot more than 'what is said'.
You have been a wonderful help to me. Oh, my therapist dumped on me, invalidated me (maybe deliberately?). I, ya' know, am in dialectical behavioral therapy. I told her I need to talk about the goings' on of the week. I asked if we could have an extra appt for just free flow discussion, and she said no. The DBT therapy is so structured. She also told me I couldn't see another therapist?! I mean I could, of course, and not relate to her, but she says it is not 'what's the word?' correct?!
I'm into yahoo and think I have a name established as corafree4all. If I try look for you, will you have the same name? I think I'm stuck here alone all weekend (still no $ for motor mounts), so may try go and visit chat.
Thank you so much for your really 'going out on a lengthy limb (all you're writing - my keys are sticky - need cleaning) to go into all my issues with me.'
The daughter that had the baby isn't speaking with me yet, and maybe that's another reason I left my mother's empty house out there. Pray I find a small, clean, (no drug atmosphere), apt out their way. There are a lot of 55+ parks out there, and family parks, but not many nice 1 bdrs...would appreciate.
Miss you. Have a good weekend FF. your friend cf
> Hi Corafree,
>
> I hope that you are feeling a little hope today.
>
> You have said a couple of things that I wanted to ask you about...
>
> >>>in hospital care, I would not be allowed to take my pain medication
>
> I have been in psych hospitals and my experience is that they *do* want you to take the medication that you usually take. They would not want you to be in physical pain along with your emotional pain. As long as what you are taking has a Dr. prescription or is over-the-counter (and you are following label directions), I can't see why they wouldn't let you take it.
>
> >>>He let me lie beside him, cry about daughter dejecting me for her newborn and the father, cry about no one loving me (not explaining the rejection by the new door-slammer), cry about financial no-win situation and putting my other daughter in poorhouse, cry about growing old alone, cry about being bad.
>
> First, I'm glad that you had the strength to ask for help. It would be nice if you had some alternatives to your abusive ex, but it sounds like for that moment, it was a helpful choice for you to make. It takes courage to ask for help - be proud of yourself for doing so.
>
> You have a new grandchild!! That is exciting, but I can tell that you are very hurt by your daughter's reaction. I'm a little confused, though. Has she refused to see you? to let you meet your grandchild? Or did I see something about you offering to watch the baby when she goes back to work? Remember that your daughter is going through a lot right now, and she might not be her most logical self. Can you let us know more about this situation?
>
> I certainly know how it feels to think that noone loves me. I have a habit of seeing things in black or white (they even call this black and white thinking) - things are all or nothing. Either I'm fine, or I'm completely awful. Either I am loved, or noone loves me. I am trying (very hard, boy is this hard for me) to see that things usually aren't all one way or all another. If you ever think this way (they call it a "cognitive distortion") then maybe this is one of those times. From what you have written on this board, your youngest daughter loves you. So there is one! That means that "noone loves you" isn't true (sorry, I'm a Math major...) - because she does. You may not have the love that you want from all of the people who you wish would love you, but you *DO* have her love. Sometimes I find that I have to hold on to things like that to make it through. Can you call your youngest daughter and talk to her on the phone? Or is her husband at home (he seems supportive of you, too)?
>
> The door slammer - I don't quite know what to think of him - you haven't given us many details. If he is a good man, but just got angry, then he could be wonderful. People can get angry without hating you. People can get angry and then get over it. For me, my black and white thinking would get involved with this, too. I would say "He slammed the door and is angry. Therefore he hates me and will never be a good companion for me". That view is probably a bit extreme. Whether this argument can be gotten over depends on who you are, who he is, and how your relationship works. Do you have a "gut feel" about this guy?
>
> Finances and putting your daughter in the poor house... This is a complicated one, too. Are you working? Do you have health insurance? Your daughter would not be helping you if she didn't want to. I can understand that you want to be self sufficient, but sometimes that takes a little time. Can you accept that just for now you need her help? As you get stronger, you can work on a plan to become more self sufficient. All of us need help at one time or another. I am on SSDI now - I wish that I could work and support myself, but right now I can't. There have been many times when my parents have given me money - I wish I didn't have to take it, and I'm working towards a time when I don't have to, but for right now, I need some help. And that's OK. It sounds like you need some help, too. That's OK, too.
>
> Growing old alone... Things can change in the future. You met the door slammer, didn't you? You didn't know him before. Perhaps you will meet someone else? I don't have a significant other now (I was married for 19 1/2 years), but I do have some wonderful friends. People are out there who want to get to know you. It can be really hard to do the "social" thing (I fight this every day), but slowly, over time, you can meet people who will keep you from feeling so alone. You already did - you found us!!
>
> "Crying about being bad". Boy, does this strike a nerve with me! Even though I know that I do have good qualities, I still feel like I am bad/evil/incompetent/failure most of the time. It is so painful to feel this way. I have been able to see that I do have *some* good qualities. But it is really hard to see that. One thing that helps me sometimes is when someone says to me "Based on what you have learned in your life, I can see why you feel that way (or I can see why you did what you did)" We *do* do things for a reason. It may not always be clear to the outside world (or even to us) why we do what we do, but there *is* a reason. I'm guessing that you aren't a bad person (you have too much compassion in your writing for me to think you are a bad person)... But I know that it is sometimes really hard to believe this ourselves.
>
> Perfection - don't get me started on perfection. I am really trying to believe that I demand more of myself than the world does. That the world is really more forgiving than I am. Just because he slammed the door doesn't mean that you did anything *wrong*... nor, even if you did behave in a way that you wish you didn't, that you can't change things in the future.
>
> >>>My children just don't want me to go away.
>
> This is the reason to keep trying, to ask for help. They don't want you to go away. And you don't want to miss seeing them be the wonderful people they are.
>
> Sometimes things can look very, very dark. Please reach out for help. If you don't have a therapist, please try to start seeing one. If this seems hard, tell us why it is hard, we have each been through our own struggles, maybe we would have a suggestion that will help.
>
>
>
Posted by iris2 on October 24, 2004, at 9:47:13
In reply to Re: Urge Plan Tools Suicide » fallsfall, posted by corafree on October 23, 2004, at 9:49:06
cf,
I guess I am sticking my nose in a little here. I read most of this thread. I hope I am right, it sounds like this last one you sound a little better? I hope so.
I read about your therapist said about not seeing another therapist. I am not so sure I agree with her. Especially if she is being so structured that you are not getting your needs met. That is of course up to you to decide!
I wanted to let you know that I used an online therapist. I cannot remember right now which agency it was. But if you are interested just babblemail me and I will try to figure it out. The therapist was great I thought. She was totally honest in telling me she thought that I needed one on one and not online therapy but that she would be there for me since I told her I was (I was) having trouble getting out of the house and making it to any appointments. She also negotiated a price with me. She let me email her several times a week and emailed me one time usually on the weekend back. The cost of the email was only $20. So essentially it was $20 a session. She had some really good insights too. I thought you might like doing the online therapy since you are seeing a therapist already although it is very structured and because you write so eloquently.
I would write more but I am already late somewhere.
Hope the best for you,
irene
Posted by corafree on October 24, 2004, at 13:55:58
In reply to Re: Urge Plan Tools Suicide » corafree, posted by iris2 on October 24, 2004, at 9:47:13
I think I just messed up trying to get on psycho-babble-open.
Can you tell me how to babble mail?
Tks for suggestions...will give thought. cf
Posted by Impermanence on October 24, 2004, at 23:16:57
In reply to Redirect: Urge,Plan,Tools - Suicide, posted by Dr. Bob on October 19, 2004, at 1:24:27
Dr Bob has no soul.. I feel you my nervous artistic friend..
Posted by corafree on October 25, 2004, at 1:11:33
In reply to Re: suicidal ideation down - you all helped greatl » corafree, posted by Poet on October 20, 2004, at 12:33:20
Poet - I just deleted Yahoo. Somehow I had four names in there. I will try start it up again and then get into open. Fallsfall was a big help today, but I had two names pop up while chatting. So, removed my account. Need to start over. I can't figure out if your user id is supposed to be the same as your chat name???? cf
Posted by fallsfall on October 25, 2004, at 8:02:16
In reply to Re: suicidal ideation down - you all helped greatl » Poet, posted by corafree on October 25, 2004, at 1:11:33
It was nice to talk to you! Please send me your new IM name when you get one - you know mine, right?
Posted by corafree on October 25, 2004, at 14:48:19
In reply to Re: suicidal ideation down - you all helped greatl » corafree, posted by fallsfall on October 25, 2004, at 8:02:16
I thought I did, but tried, didn't work. Can you message me. It is as it should be now! tks
Posted by iris2 on October 25, 2004, at 17:55:09
In reply to Re: Urge Plan Tools Suicide » iris2, posted by corafree on October 24, 2004, at 13:55:58
To babblemail just click on the persons name in blue. Like if you look at one of my posts it has the name of the post and then posted by iris2. If you click on iris2 you get to babblemail. I see you are set up to get babble mail. If the name is not in blue the person does not accept babble mail. I will babble mail you so you can reply and try it.
irene
Posted by corafree on October 26, 2004, at 0:12:30
In reply to Re: Urge Plan Tools Suicide » corafree, posted by iris2 on October 25, 2004, at 17:55:09
But, iris2, your name is not blue,...it's brown everywhere I see it. cf
> To babblemail just click on the persons name in blue. Like if you look at one of my posts it has the name of the post and then posted by iris2. If you click on iris2 you get to babblemail. I see you are set up to get babble mail. If the name is not in blue the person does not accept babble mail. I will babble mail you so you can reply and try it.
>
> irene
Posted by iris2 on October 26, 2004, at 0:31:49
In reply to Re: Urge Plan Tools Suicide » iris2, posted by corafree on October 26, 2004, at 0:12:30
Seriously is that a joke. I am pretty thick these days. If not everything on my computer in type is black. If I click on my own post it is blue or purple if I saw it already and os is yours.
irene
Posted by iris2 on October 26, 2004, at 14:39:59
In reply to Re: Urge Plan Tools Suicide (nm) » iris2, posted by corafree on October 26, 2004, at 13:25:47
I am home and get online every couple of hours. What is going on? Why did you post nothing but your urge to die? I cannot talk to you if I do not know what is going on? We are here for you. Talk to us.
irene
Posted by corafree on October 26, 2004, at 21:09:52
In reply to Re: Urge Plan Tools Suicide » corafree, posted by iris2 on October 26, 2004, at 14:39:59
iris2 - Irene, in brown and purple, I did, quite a lot. I don't know where you're at, but it was at least a week and a half ago when posted. It was re-routed, I believe, from its starting point. I'm better now; taking things with grain of salt, staying away from stressors, oh, and there are grains of salt all over my kitchen! Did start do some dishes today...maybe do few more later. Also, you never got back to me about not being 'blue' (the color), babblemailable? That was you telling me how to babblemail wasn't it? Let me know pls. cf
Posted by iris2 on October 26, 2004, at 21:20:02
In reply to Re: Urge Plan Tools Suicide » iris2, posted by corafree on October 26, 2004, at 21:09:52
cf,
Glad to hear things are better. I so not know what else to tell you about how to babble mail. I can tell you are set up fo rit when you origonally registered because your name is in blue on my computer or purple if I already read the post. IF you want to try it and you are reading this post then after you are done do the following:Go to the place above the post where it says "posted by iris2" click on iris2 and it will take you to babble mail. Ther you will be able to post a message to me through this site without posting it on the board. I think I babbled you to try it I will again.
irene
Posted by iris2 on October 26, 2004, at 21:24:12
In reply to Re: Urge Plan Tools Suicide » iris2, posted by corafree on October 26, 2004, at 21:09:52
Actually I just looked at mail I had not deleted yet and you alredy babble mailed me.
irene
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Social | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.