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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by shortelise on August 29, 2004, at 13:17:21
Recent posts have given me pause.
If we talk about suicidal feelings with friends or family, they tend to panic.
Talking about feeling suicidal doesn't ALWAYS mean you're about to commit suicide. Apparently most people who do kill themselves have talked about suicide beforehand. But all people who talk about suicide do not kill themselves. Most people don't.
And it can help a person so much to talk about these feelings, why they feel this way, what is happening in their lives.
It helps to "explore the issues", even if it is in terms of suicide.
SOmetimes saying "I want to kill myself" is in fact a way of saying "Could you please please listen to me - I am in too much pain".
I know I am stating the obvious.
But here's my point to all of this.
If we panic here, where can a person go to talk about these feelings? If those of us who have these feelings can't express them here, can't ask for help in thinking and feeling through it all, where can we? Could we not just encourage people to talk here, to write here? Just feeling understood can be a reason to live sometimes.
This is of course not including circumstances where immediate intervention is needed.
What do you think?
ShortE
Posted by JenStar on August 29, 2004, at 14:19:12
In reply to suicide discussion, posted by shortelise on August 29, 2004, at 13:17:21
ShortE, that's a really good point. I know you said it was obvious, but sometimes it really helps me to take a step back and think about stuff (sometimes the obvious stuff is really deep when you start pondering it!)
For me, I don't know how to tell the difference between 'asking for help' and 'really meaning it' so I probably over-respond when people even mention words that rhyme with suicide. Sorry, I know it's not funny, it's just that I'm hypersensitive to it.
I think it's drummed our society that we need to respond ASAP if someone is about to commit suicide; we feel pre-event guilt; we feel that we not only have a duty to prevent it but that we also have the power to prevent it if we only offer the right talisman or say the right magic words. So we keep trying and trying, kind of like using different fishing lures, hoping that ONE of our messages will hit home and prevent anything from happening.
It's good to keep in mind that there may be a point of exhaustion, though, for the recipient as well as the giver...
I wish there was a way to know better.
Do you have any suggestions? Any experiences?
thanks for bringing this up. I think it is an important thing to discuss.
JenStar
Posted by Shadowplayers721 on August 29, 2004, at 14:30:40
In reply to suicide discussion, posted by shortelise on August 29, 2004, at 13:17:21
I agree with you. Discussing suicide will not make someone do it. However, there are degrees of the decision. For example - there is the just thinking about it -----all the way to the----I am going to do it and very happy about it. The last stage is the most serious. At least, the people on here are still talking about their thoughts. Their are those that wouldn't even bother doing a letter or telling anyone anything. There is no set way. Their are those that jump with no plan and impulsive and then their are those that make that accident scene. Many accidents were not accidents at all esp head on collisions. Oh, I am just talking and talking aren't I. Well, I guess you can tell I took a Class on this. I did It was called - Death and Dying. I took it as an elective to help face my fears. Didn't help my fears, but helped me see what others are really doing. It's more of a psych class in a way.
Posted by daisym on August 29, 2004, at 16:18:26
In reply to Re: suicide discussion, posted by Shadowplayers721 on August 29, 2004, at 14:30:40
This is such a prickly subject...I think everyone wants to be supportive and yet there are concerns about saying the wrong thing at the wrong time, not saying the right thing at the right time and/or not responding at all. How will it be interpreted? Or misinterpreted?
I remember a few threads on psychology about talking to your therapist about suicide. Both sides of the issue were discussed...why talking about it is good, when a therapist might overreact to it, etc. For me, it was a good reminder that my therapist is a professional who "should" know what to say or do. That I could get support here on Babble, but when things were really bleak, I needed to talk to him too. I did and it helped immensely. Not only that, but he extracted a promise of at least a phone call if I got even a little bit serious. That doesn't seem like much, but it made it more OK to reach out somehow, and lessened the chance of an impulse act.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that we should gently encourage people to keep seeking support irl, as well as offer support here. We won't probably won't be able to talk them out of it, but we can affirm that we've been there, we know that pain, that intense isolation that blacks out all hope of it ever getting better. It is OK to say how much you hurt, to try to grapple with the conflicting emotions and responsibilities of life.
I think you are absolutely right. Sometimes you just want to say, "this sucks" and have someone say "yes, it does."
Posted by cubic_me on August 29, 2004, at 19:52:42
In reply to Re: suicide discussion, posted by daisym on August 29, 2004, at 16:18:26
I completely agree with everything that has been said here. I've been suicidal to varying degrees for the past 3 or more years, and without talking to people, either online or IRL, and just having them know what I am feeling, I would have felt even more lonely. A couple of people I have talked to have really over reacted, and that has just made me feel like I have to protect them from what I am feeling.
Sometimes I feel like I have become hardened to people talking about suicide. When my best friend told me that she had tried to kill herself 3 years ago, I was freaked out, tho I didn't show that to her. I talked with her about both our suicidal feelings until she killed herself over a year later, and I continued to talk to people online. The suicidal people I had come into contact with online used to occupy my mind, and I did used to feel responsible for them, however I became more and more able to talk to extremely suicidal people online or on the phone, and then switch off and get on with what I had to do. When I think about it, I feel harsh for doing that, but if I didn't then it would mentally destroy me.
Posted by Jai Narayan on August 29, 2004, at 21:31:47
In reply to Re: suicide discussion, posted by cubic_me on August 29, 2004, at 19:52:42
I too was suicidal for most of my life. It really wasn't till EMDR that I looked at what was the fuel for my desire to not exist. When I finally faced the extreme pain, that I was running from, it felt like another kind of death. The person, all the trauma in my life had created, had to stop existing. She died just like she had wanted to. I am reborn the woman who now has a chance to have a good life with love and leisure. I can relax...
relax.
What an extreme luxury.
To sit back and breath. Just take this life in my stride....
what a concept.
So if someone else expresses the desire to kill themselves....well I take them seriously. After all I meant it when I said it.
Why say it if you are just kidding.
That's my take on it.
You are great to discuss this.If you dream about a bear under your bed when you wake up look under the bed.
Posted by JenStar on August 31, 2004, at 19:21:38
In reply to Re: suicide discussion, posted by Jai Narayan on August 29, 2004, at 21:31:47
Jai,
thanks for your post. I'm glad you are able to share your thoughts with us! It's nice to know that you are reborn as a stronger person...I think that can give hope to many of us who are hoping for such a breakthrough.I myself am not (nor have ever been) suicidal, so I know I can't really understand it. But I care and I want to respond in an appropriate way to help (not hurt) those who are struggling with it.
Jai, many time your 'regular' posts read like poetry (like this one does.) I know it's a difficult subject to discuss but I like the way you think and advocate calmness & introspection. I like the way you put words together, too.
JenStar
Posted by Jai Narayan on August 31, 2004, at 20:34:51
In reply to Re: suicide discussion » Jai Narayan, posted by JenStar on August 31, 2004, at 19:21:38
Posted by Denise1904 on September 6, 2004, at 14:59:09
In reply to Re: suicide discussion » Jai Narayan, posted by JenStar on August 31, 2004, at 19:21:38
Hi,
Just wanted to say that if I talk to my boyfriend about suicide he gets really angry, he hates it but if I talk to my ex-boyfriend about it (now a really good friend) although he doestn't encourage it, he does listen and I know it doestn't get to him. We talk about death and it sort of helps me in a strange kind of way without making him depressed. He's really good like that, he can empathise with you without being brought down with you so I no I'm not having any detrimental affects on his mood.
When I'm in a really bad state of depression I get a sort of comfort out of talking about 100 years ago or talking about the year 3000 or looking at really old black and white photos, because they all allude to a time when I wasn't or won't be here.
Denies
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