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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Zarah78 on October 16, 2003, at 11:41:12
Hello again all.
I think I'll go on a mini-posting spree here for a minute. Things are kinda quiet (read: slow) here at work for me right now and certain morons aren't bothering me so.. Why not?
I was talking to my mom last night about the prospect of researching medications for my depression/possible BP. She, of course, flipped out on me with her usual rant about how no one on her side of the family has suffered from mental illness or ever had to take medications like that (what bouat her older bro who had some kind of dishonroable discharge from someplace college/military after he moved out?). She went on and on about how she gets depressed too and she knows hers is hormonal from "the change" and she has reasons to be depressed because this and that.. I stopped her there and told her I really *don't* have reasons for my depression and no apparent triggers and then I get the ups that are a little out of control beforehand. Mom talked about how she just lets it be out of control and b***hes at the people that irritate her. I told her that's not even close to the same, tried to explain that I can't stand losing control, but she doesn't understand.
I'm starting to reach the same kind of "lows" I did as a teen when I had thoughts of suicide so prevalent in my mind. It's been about 9-10 yrs since then and it scares me. I get depressed, my own thoughts start to scare me, then I get mild anxiety attacks from that.. No uncertain terms: it sucks. I'm waiting for the up part of this to come and I'm gonna try to mark on a calendar my ups and my downs so maybe I can brace myself a little or something if I notice a pattern. I dunno, gang. I'm a little scared to go on the meds because of all the wonderfully horrid side effects they can (and usualy do) have to accompany them. It's almost like a 'rob Peter to pay Paul' scenario if you think about it too long.
My mother just doesn't understand, though. My paternal grandmother committed suicide when I was 10 - mom writes it off rather cynically as being because my granddad was an alcoholic and grams thought her life was over because she was going through her change.. But.. That's not really it. As I've stated before, people that don't wrestle with those thoughts and that kind of internal anguish just cannot understand. My mom never got along with my grandma anyway.
*sigh* well, there's my mini-rant. Suggestions? Comments? Whatnots? Feel free.
Thanks for reading. Back to work for me. :P
-Z
Posted by Susan J on October 16, 2003, at 12:03:20
In reply to Mini-rant, rambling thoughts, posted by Zarah78 on October 16, 2003, at 11:41:12
I don't have much to add, other than I really sympathize with you. Sounds like your relationship with your mother is very much like mine...
>>But.. That's not really it. As I've stated before, people that don't wrestle with those thoughts and that kind of internal anguish just cannot understand.
<<Heck, I'd go for a person who's never even *seen* depression, as long as he was introspective, wrestled with his own thoughts about life, tried to figure them out, and at least was *aware* of his feelings/emotions/desires/needs/strengths/weaknesses. They might not fully understand how far-reaching depression can be, but at least they would *try.*Susan
Posted by fallsfall on October 17, 2003, at 7:40:05
In reply to Mini-rant, rambling thoughts, posted by Zarah78 on October 16, 2003, at 11:41:12
Your mother sounds like my ex-husband: if I put my head in the sand it will all go away.
I'm glad that you are more realistic.
Meds really can help. Particularly for Bipolar. If you find that the side effects are awful, then you just have to decide which is worse: the disease, or the drugs. And make your choice. Personally, even a lot of many side effects (i.e. constipation) is much easier on my life than my depression is.
Charting your moods is a good idea - helping you be prepared for upcoming changes, and also to give your doctor a better idea of what is going on.
Good luck
Posted by Zarah78 on October 17, 2003, at 10:11:51
In reply to Re: Mini-rant, rambling thoughts » Zarah78, posted by fallsfall on October 17, 2003, at 7:40:05
Thank you both for the positive support and reminding me that just because she's my mom, doesn't mean she controls my life anymore. A lot of people just do not want to deal with depression and many still don't believe that it is for real.
Sometimes I wonder about the sudden increase in diagnosed (and undiagnosed, sometimes) cases of depression and BP disorder in recent times. Is it because our lives are getting so much more hectic that we dont have time for ourselves anymore, or that its finally being acknowledged as a real problem, or is it just another easy way to classify people? Maybe the increase of violence on tv and movies and in our lives? Maybe the elevated divorce rate? Maybe the given commonality of the professional, independent, working-woman in the household and the necessity of having two incomes just to stay comfortably afloat and provide "happy, healthy" lives for our children? Maybe its all of this and more. Maybe its a little bit of this reason, a lot of that one. Maybe its the next stage of human evolution!! (LOL, wouldn't that be interesting?)
Whatever the reason, the fact remains that depression is real. I dont believe that the pain I feel hinges on some "qwack-shrink" coming up with a conveient idea for diagnosis. Its real, its here and society needs to learn to deal with us as human beings, not nutcases.
Ok, I'm getting worked up again in a message that was supposed to be short and sweet. LOL. Oh well.
Thank you again for reminding me of what's real. :) (((SusanJ))) (((fallsfall)))
-Zarah78
PS -- Did this site get really laggy for anyone else last nite? I could only get on once and I couldn't even read posts! I subjected myself to inane tv shows and forced myself to lug laundry up and down stairs for a couple of hours. Torture, I tell ya! :)
Posted by Susan J on October 17, 2003, at 10:28:29
In reply to Thank you, SusanJ fallsfall, posted by Zarah78 on October 17, 2003, at 10:11:51
Zarah,
Cool name, by the way. What does it mean, I didn't read all those posts where people explained their screen names....
> Thank you both for the positive support and reminding me that just because she's my mom, doesn't mean she controls my life anymore. A lot of people just do not want to deal with depression and many still don't believe that it is for real.
<<No, she doesn't run your life. But I think it's *always* hard, and certainly not supportive, when someone so close to you kind of dismisses the reality of what you are going through...> Sometimes I wonder about the sudden increase in diagnosed (and undiagnosed, sometimes) cases of depression and BP disorder in recent times.
<<Funny, I was just wondering this myself recently. My theory is that some people (like me) are just chemically prone to depression and no matter how wonderful/healthy/fullfilling/safe our lives are, we still will get hit by depression from time to time. Of course, add on big life problems, and it's a recipe for disaster. *This* type of case I think is up because it's being diagnosed properly now...Other people get hit by depression because of really rough life circumstances, and I think we can all thank our crazy high-speed lives for that, and a culture that doesn't seem to value self-knowledge and introspection as much as I think it should.
I *also* believe that a lot of people who have no experience with true depression don't understand its extreme impact on the people who suffer from it, and the loved ones who care about people who suffer from it.
People just go around saying, "I'm so depressed, such and such happened today." It devalues the word and condition *depression.* Normal sadness sucks, too, and I don't wish it on anyone. But true depression is all-encompassing and affects every physical, mental, and emotional component of *me* so I'm sure it does the same to so many others...It's *not* just the everyday blues, and so many people don't understand that....
>Its real, its here and society needs to learn to deal with us as human beings, not nutcases.
<Yeah, I'm not so sure how to handle that one. When I discuss being depressed with my mother just recently (I've been going through a bad spot of it for almost 2 years), she told me to *get over it.* Basically, she was tired of seeing me depressed for so long and didn't want me to stay that way.A person's lack of empathy for a depressed person they care about quite often comes back to that person's own emotional unhealthiness. In my mother's case, she feels like a failure because she has a depressed daughter and it's a social stigma for her. She wants me better because she cares about me, but also because my depression's not a good reflection on *her.*
Tough for me, but so sad for her.....
Even the so-called *healthy* people should get a dose of therapy here and there to better fine-tune their own emotional health....
S.
Posted by fallsfall on October 17, 2003, at 10:41:46
In reply to Thank you, SusanJ fallsfall, posted by Zarah78 on October 17, 2003, at 10:11:51
Bob posted a note at the end of the Admin board - read my response. I think I had more fun than you did.
Posted by Zarah78 on October 17, 2003, at 21:03:57
In reply to interesting questions!, posted by Susan J on October 17, 2003, at 10:28:29
> Cool name, by the way. What does it mean, I didn't read all those posts where people explained their screen names....
Thanks. Doesn't really mean much. It's just a name I really like that's kinda linked to a mental image of someone I'd like to be. :)
> A person's lack of empathy for a depressed person they care about quite often comes back to that person's own emotional unhealthiness. In my mother's case, she feels like a failure because she has a depressed daughter and it's a social stigma for her. She wants me better because she cares about me, but also because my depression's not a good reflection on *her.*
>
> Tough for me, but so sad for her.....((((SusanJ)))) Kindred spirits on that thought. My mother seems to expect perfection, it seems. It's hard enough to not live up to someone else's expectations, harder still when those expectations are those of your own mother.
> Even the so-called *healthy* people should get a dose of therapy here and there to better fine-tune their own emotional health....
>
> S.YES!! Hear, Hear! I think it should be a mandatory part of a yearly physical (not that many people do that anymore), or maybe make corportate mandates that call for yearly psych evals, especially for those in high-stress occupations. Yeah, I know. It's just an idealistic dream.
But these days, if I don't have my pretty-rose-tinted dreams of the world as it "should" be, then what do I have to hope for or escape to? :) Sometimes fantasies/dreams are a good way to set goals to work towards (as long as they're realistic - I'm obviously never gonna go back in time and change that really dumb thing I said to that *really* cute sales rep that comes in twice a week!) Sometimes its good to dream about how things might have been just to help us choose a better option if a similar situation comes around again later.
Yeah. Rambling stuff again. How do I always get so far off topic from where I started my thoughts? LOL. Oh well. :)
Bottom line: Mom support = good; Mom non-support = bad in referrence to childrens' mental health. :) My dad sees a therapist once in a while and thinks I should try it. :P (Automatically, this means mom will veto that, I think. LOL!)
-Z
Posted by Larry Hoover on October 18, 2003, at 11:07:36
In reply to Mini-rant, rambling thoughts, posted by Zarah78 on October 16, 2003, at 11:41:12
> Hello again all.
Hey. Just for the record, the following message contains healthy measures of projection, the potentially inappropriate or erroneous extrapolation of my experiences (and my interpretations of those experiences) onto yours....
> I think I'll go on a mini-posting spree here for a minute. Things are kinda quiet (read: slow) here at work for me right now and certain morons aren't bothering me so.. Why not?
What about the uncertain morons? Are *they* bothering you? <sorry, couldn't help myself>
> I was talking to my mom last night about the prospect of researching medications for my depression/possible BP. She, of course, flipped out on me with her usual rant about how no one on her side of the family has suffered from mental illness or ever had to take medications like that (what bouat her older bro who had some kind of dishonroable discharge from someplace college/military after he moved out?).The "of course" bit suggests this is an established pattern of dialogue. So, is her whole flippin' family in denial? And how did a discussion about you turn into a discussion about her, anyway?
My mom's a martyr. A serious martyr. Everything is about her. She never gets the sympathy she thinks she needs. It wouldn't matter anyway, because sympathy isn't what she really wants from you. She's selfish.
> She went on and on about how she gets depressed too
...like she (and only she) *knows* depression?
> and she knows hers is hormonal from "the change" and she has reasons to be depressed because this and that.. I stopped her there and told her I really *don't* have reasons for my depression and no apparent triggers and then I get the ups that are a little out of control beforehand. Mom talked about how she just lets it be out of control and b***hes at the people that irritate her. I told her that's not even close to the same, tried to explain that I can't stand losing control, but she doesn't understand.
She can't, so why talk to *her* about it? Do you need her approval?
Boundaries are difficult concepts. A boundary is the separation of your shi*, uh, stuff, from her stuff. Why is your stuff blended into her stuff?
> I'm starting to reach the same kind of "lows" I did as a teen when I had thoughts of suicide so prevalent in my mind. It's been about 9-10 yrs since then and it scares me. I get depressed, my own thoughts start to scare me, then I get mild anxiety attacks from that.. No uncertain terms: it sucks. I'm waiting for the up part of this to come and I'm gonna try to mark on a calendar my ups and my downs so maybe I can brace myself a little or something if I notice a pattern. I dunno, gang. I'm a little scared to go on the meds because of all the wonderfully horrid side effects they can (and usualy do) have to accompany them.Meds have a place. They aren't for what your Mom thinks depression is, IMHO.
> It's almost like a 'rob Peter to pay Paul' scenario if you think about it too long.
So don't think too much about it. Talk to a disinterested objective third party. A doctor. A therapist.
> My mother just doesn't understand, though. My paternal grandmother committed suicide when I was 10 - mom writes it off rather cynically as being because my granddad was an alcoholic and grams thought her life was over because she was going through her change.. But.. That's not really it.She trivializes a major personal crisis, just as she trivializes you? Is this woman really someone who has your best interests at heart? Is she expressing unconditional love, or that other sort?
> As I've stated before, people that don't wrestle with those thoughts and that kind of internal anguish just cannot understand.
Not, strictly speaking, true. A good counsellor will understand.
> My mom never got along with my grandma anyway.
See, it's about your mom again.
> *sigh* well, there's my mini-rant. Suggestions? Comments? Whatnots? Feel free.
I like whatnots. They're better than whatchamacallits. Feelings are free, as you suggest. ;-)
Later in the thread you mention that your mom would veto counselling. How on earth would it be her decision, anyway?
A good counsellor can help you figure out how to interpret your world in the context of you. Using active listening "What I hear you saying is....", and guided questioning "When I hear you say X, it makes me wonder if.....", and unconditional acceptance, a counsellor encourages you to set and honour personal boundaries. Meds may be a part of that, or they may not be. But it would be your call, based on the whys and why nots of your life.
The outcome can be summed up in the "people" version of the Serenity Prayer:
God, grant me the serenity,
To accept the people I cannot change,
The courage to change the people I can,
And the wisdom to know that person is me.
> Thanks for reading. Back to work for me. :P
> -ZHappy to read. Happy to comment, too. Is that tongue for anyone in particular? ;-p
Lar
Posted by sarita0001 on October 19, 2003, at 12:01:34
In reply to Mini-rant, rambling thoughts, posted by Zarah78 on October 16, 2003, at 11:41:12
Hi,
Something you wrote in your post reminds me a lot of what I am going through now. You said that you haven't been this way since high school, that is exactly how it has been for me. In high school, I missed so much school because of my depression. Now I am missing school because of depression/anxiety although it is not as bad. Just an example of how sometimes old patterns recur and old pain comes back. I don't know if I have asked you this, and I suggest it to everyone but therapy really helps. From 19-22, I never went because I thought I could tough it out and I was already on meds. It helps to speak to a non-objective person. Presently, I feel too like whatever is bothering me won't stop. I haven't done anything the whole weekend and it's 1pm and I am just now getting up to get ready and do something. If you are not sure about meds, ask someone else(not your mom) what they think, someone who knows you very well and who you trust.
Sara
Posted by sarita0001 on October 19, 2003, at 20:35:07
In reply to Re: Mini-rant, rambling thoughts » Zarah78, posted by sarita0001 on October 19, 2003, at 12:01:34
Hi,
Just want to clarify something. When I meant not your mom, I guess I also identified with feeling frustrated with my mom's response. All she would ever tell me is you don't need medicine without ever telling me why but she is the one who sought medical answers for almost any problem I had. So I know it sucks when we expect support or understanding from someone who does know us. Hope things work out.
Sara
Posted by Zarah78 on October 19, 2003, at 21:33:39
In reply to Re: Mini-rant, rambling thoughts » sarita0001, posted by sarita0001 on October 19, 2003, at 20:35:07
> All she would ever tell me is you don't need medicine without ever telling me why but she is the one who sought medical answers for almost any problem I had. So I know it sucks when we expect support or understanding from someone who does know us. Hope things work out.
>
> SaraThat's really odd because that's exactly how my mom is, too. Any time I've got a cold she's the first one to start urging me to go see a doctor or trying to determine using available info as to what's wrong with me. That's partly why I went to her, I thought maybe she might know something about things in that area. (She's a molecular biologist.) That and because she's my mom, and aren't parents supposed to try and support you in hard times? I'm an only child, so its not as if I can go to a sibling for support.
Thank you. :)
Zarah78
Posted by sarita0001 on October 19, 2003, at 22:35:52
In reply to Re: Mini-rant, rambling thoughts » sarita0001, posted by Zarah78 on October 19, 2003, at 21:33:39
Hi,
"That and because she's my mom, and aren't parents supposed to try and support you in hard times?"
I have been struggling with this for so long. We all have expectations of some sort from our parents and if they don't meet them it affects us one way or another. I am still trying to figure out what to do about this. I don't think my parents tried as hard as I wanted them to. I had an episode when I was 17, the doctor said I was BP and I was on meds for 7 years. They attended two sessions- that was their level of involvment. Sorry, I could go on about this forever but it is an example of expectations not being met.
Try and find a really good friend- give them the benefit of the doubt. As I have learned, doctors don't know everything. Any emotional symptom I had I always thought it was a "bipolar symptom" without ever considering other things. Like sleeping, maybe there was a week I slept a little less but at least 6 hours. Since I was always told that having trouble sleeping is a bipolar thing. I guess I am trying to say seek second opinions and also assess what is going on at your life that is stressing you out, and any other unresolved issues from your past that might be bothering you. Meds only if necessary- but like you said, and I agree, when you have been raised to believe that that is the answer then it is hard to believe anything else.
?'s- I'll be around.
Sara
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