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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 7 to 31 of 31. Go back in thread:
Posted by jodie on February 1, 2003, at 15:25:00
In reply to So sad (nm), posted by OddipusRex on February 1, 2003, at 10:05:03
I've been watching Fox news all morning/afternoon. How horrible. I remember watching the Challenger explode when I was at school. Poor, poor victims, and families. I lowered my flag half way!!!
Jodie
Posted by dreamerz on February 1, 2003, at 18:54:18
In reply to Prayers for the Astronauts, posted by NikkiT2 on February 1, 2003, at 9:04:53
Posted by Marathon Man on February 2, 2003, at 10:55:58
In reply to Re: So sad, posted by jodie on February 1, 2003, at 15:25:00
Manned space flight is a boondoggle! Unmanned is
so much more cost effective. They still struggle with feccees floating around with the astronauts.Maybe if they were more efficient with their funds there would be additional efforts made in understanding mood disorders. People seem to have a Buck Rogers or Star Wars fettish. Mental health just does'nt have the glamour. I know its not PC but it sure irritates me how we are given short shrift. Just my thoughts.
Posted by Dinah on February 2, 2003, at 11:07:51
In reply to Shuttle tradgedy could be plus for us!, posted by Marathon Man on February 2, 2003, at 10:55:58
My concern is for the family of those lost, and the countries who mourn their loss.
I know I said it before. But I thought I'd say it again.
Posted by Marathon Man on February 2, 2003, at 12:22:23
In reply to Again, I would not want to profit from tragedy. » Marathon Man, posted by Dinah on February 2, 2003, at 11:07:51
They are going to lobby for additional funds to refurbish or replace the ageing fleet of shuttles. We need to fight back against this. Unmanned is not as glamourass, but is more efficient of resources. We need more spent on Mental Health. Its the cold hard fact. I have empathy for the family and friends of those who perished. I have more feelings for the millions of sufferers of mental illness who have died through the years. All the while a pittance is allocated to address these problems.
Posted by Dinah on February 2, 2003, at 12:32:29
In reply to Many will use disaster to prop up manned space , posted by Marathon Man on February 2, 2003, at 12:22:23
I understand your frustration at the allocation of resources. I have similar frustration, especially about education. Thank you for putting your message more gently. I'm still so sad for everyone involved.
> They are going to lobby for additional funds to refurbish or replace the ageing fleet of shuttles. We need to fight back against this. Unmanned is not as glamourass, but is more efficient of resources. We need more spent on Mental Health. Its the cold hard fact. I have empathy for the family and friends of those who perished. I have more feelings for the millions of sufferers of mental illness who have died through the years. All the while a pittance is allocated to address these problems.
Posted by noa on February 2, 2003, at 15:00:40
In reply to Prayers for the Astronauts, posted by NikkiT2 on February 1, 2003, at 9:04:53
I was watching the local NBC affiliate news when they announced that communication was lost, but said at that point it could be nothing, just a function of reentering the atmosphere. Then, the bad news unfolded.
My thoughts immediately went to the day the Challenger went down. I was at work, and had just received a phone call from an acquaintance who was friends with a family I had babysat for a lot (including live-in when parents were on vacation). The family had since moved abroad. The acquaintance told me the horrible news that the youngest child, just shy of his third birthday, had died of drowning. I got off the phone and went into the next office, and said to a co-worker, "I'm in shock, I've just had very bad news". She answered, "I know, I've been watching it on TV all morning." Of course, I was very confused--how would this little boy's death be on TV? Until we cleared it up that she was talking about the space shuttle. That day in January of 1986 was very sad for both reasons. There had been a lot of build up to the Challenger flight because of Christa McCaulliffe, first teacher in space. So many Americans were watching the lift off--including most school children, at least on the east coast (it would have been too early in the morning on the west coast).
A few years later, I was at a science museum, in the new Omni theater, and the film featured that day was about the space shuttle, narrated by Walter Cronkite. It was eery because some of the astronauts in the film were among those lost in the Challenger explosion. I remember Judith Resnick, specifically.
I do find it sad. Sure, my "logical" brain tells me more deaths occur in ordinary circumstances that I don't pay attention to, etc. But it does have my attention, and it is sad.
In watching yesterday's developments, I was struck by what several NASA officials said. They used a very euphemistic phrase that made me think. They said, "It's been a bad day" or "We've had a bad day". I was thinking about the kind of oddity of that understatement, and was wondering if this is reflective of the NASA culture. I can imagine that they use such a mantra as a way of coping because when they have a bad day, they still have to pick up and keep on working--contingency plans, recovery efforts, investigations, keeping up with research and training, projects, etc. I imagine that in their business there isn't much time to be paralyzed by any set back, even such a devastating loss.
Then I was thinking about my own "bad days", and NASA's bad day puts mine in perspective.
As for the space program--as much as I am a strong advocate for better funding of mental health and social programs on earth, I do feel we need to have a good space program. Who knows, maybe the cure for one of the mental illnesses will be propelled by some research in space?
Posted by M. Lee on February 3, 2003, at 9:02:10
In reply to Shuttle tradgedy could be plus for us!, posted by Marathon Man on February 2, 2003, at 10:55:58
... and in so many ways...
During the 16 days in the unique environment of space the astronauts studied: the growth rate of prostate cancer cells, the ozone layer, fuel combustion, etc. etc.
See the Dallas Morning News, 2/2/2003, article by Michael E. Young. It contains an overview of the important research conducted during this mission.http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dallas/latestnews/stories/020203dnmet16days.6dd95.html
and, no, this research could not be conducted without human intervention. Research here on Earth is so much more productive when it is supplemented by research in space. As a side note, one of the experiments on the Space Station is currently not working. The astronauts that are currently on the Station are awaiting spare parts which were launched on a Russion rocket Sunday. These parts will be installed in the experiment after the space craft arrives Tuesday. Despite this tragedy, and in the same spirit to which the lost crew dedicated their lives, the three astronauts who are still on orbit continue to expand the frontiers of knowledge for the benefit of all humanity.
Posted by Marathon Man on February 3, 2003, at 11:55:45
In reply to shuttle research could help us all, posted by M. Lee on February 3, 2003, at 9:02:10
We need the research right here on terra firma. Most of the NASA funds are used up on the shuttle expenses. Please do not get caught up by their propaganda. They play up on peoples romance with the great frontier of space. The human mind is much more vast and unknown. We need attention put on Mental Health disorders. Be part of the solution.
Posted by Phil on February 3, 2003, at 18:34:50
In reply to Shuttle research Sucks!, posted by Marathon Man on February 3, 2003, at 11:55:45
I work in government. If you think they will shut down space travel to give the money to mental illness research, it ain't gonna happen.
It's not NASA's fault that mental health doesn't get more funding, it's political bullshit.Ultimately, the cure for depression will come from free enterprise; drug companies fighting for market share.
Yes, we need help and there are 100's of places the government could find more money. That is, if Bush doesn't dig us into a hole we'll never get out of.
I heard recently that Bush may begin the war with Iraq by firing 80 cruise missles...one million dollars each. If that moron cut NASA's budget, he wouldn't give a damn about health care..bombs baby bombs.If we want more funding then we will all have to get involved and not think the government is just going to hand us the cash. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. If we don't get loud, nothing will happen.
BTW, NASA built the last shuttle out of spare parts.
Posted by Marathon Man on February 3, 2003, at 19:25:45
In reply to Re: Empathy » Marathon Man, posted by Phil on February 3, 2003, at 18:34:50
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 4, 2003, at 0:36:14
In reply to President Bush is intelligent (nm), posted by Marathon Man on February 3, 2003, at 19:25:45
Posted by Marathon Man on February 4, 2003, at 7:31:04
In reply to shuttle research could help us all, posted by M. Lee on February 3, 2003, at 9:02:10
Waa Hoo! Look at the science that was being done on the Columbia mission. It was mostly trivial. From creating perfume,and how harvester ants are effected by weightlessness, to a profect labeled "Fun with Urine". We need to come to our senses and realize the cost and risk of lives is not warranted.
Posted by NikkiT2 on February 4, 2003, at 7:40:05
In reply to Re: Empathy » Marathon Man, posted by Phil on February 3, 2003, at 18:34:50
I did some reading.. The NASA Budget last year was $3 billion.. sounds a lot at first, but when compared to many other things, its tiny. IT wouldn't keep the US people from starvation for more than a week (so my sources say!).
I think Space Exploration is a hugely important thing.
Nikki
Posted by wharfrat on February 4, 2003, at 16:21:53
In reply to NASA Budget, posted by NikkiT2 on February 4, 2003, at 7:40:05
My house shook from the blast of the Columbia as did many homes in North Texas. I had no idea that it was anything other than maybe a sonic boom or natural gas explosion somewhere nearby. Within 15 minutes I realized what it was that I heard. An explosion from 40 miles in the air. Debris as close to my house as 15 miles and as far away as 250. A pretty creepy feeling.
Posted by M. Lee on February 5, 2003, at 6:54:24
In reply to NASA Budget, posted by NikkiT2 on February 4, 2003, at 7:40:05
> I did some reading.. The NASA Budget last year was $3 billion.. sounds a lot at first, but when compared to many other things, its tiny. IT wouldn't keep the US people from starvation for more than a week (so my sources say!).
>
> I think Space Exploration is a hugely important thing.
>The looming war in Iraq is estimated to cost (not including lose of life) 4 to 5 years of NASA funding. That does not include the peactime expenditures for the military or the cost of the war against terrorism.
Funding for NASA amounts to well under 1% of the US budget.
There are worse things that the government spends money on.
Posted by Phil on February 5, 2003, at 7:02:04
In reply to Re: NASA Budget, posted by M. Lee on February 5, 2003, at 6:54:24
Posted by M. Lee on February 6, 2003, at 7:58:22
In reply to Biggest dividend from manned space?..........Tang!, posted by Marathon Man on February 4, 2003, at 7:31:04
The perfume research was not funded by tax payer money. To offset the cost of space missions NASA reserves space and sells it to the highest commercial bidder. Is it trivial? The capitalist marketplace doesn't think so.
The "ant farm" was part of a NASA project to involve students in space shuttle research as one part of an educational initiative.
The prostate cancer cell research speaks for itself.
The combustion research has the goal of creating more fuel efficient engines with less pollution.
I could go on, but then I would be typing for days. My vote for the biggest dividend from space would be for the smoke detector.
(BTW, Tang was not invented by NASA. But they did invent those little ketchup packets that you get with fast food.)
Posted by lostsailor on February 6, 2003, at 10:27:27
In reply to Re: Biggest dividend from manned space?, posted by M. Lee on February 6, 2003, at 7:58:22
Despite the neg, postings, Americans were killed in the name of research and a desire to pass info to help all of us--or at least provide material for Letterman. Is there work a crime??/
I pray for them and thier famiies.
I do not think the individuals on the craft or crew involved should not be seen in terms of personel views of space exploration and it's worth/nonworth.
Posted by M. Lee on February 6, 2003, at 12:30:13
In reply to Re: crime and punishment, posted by lostsailor on February 6, 2003, at 10:27:27
I've seen, and I've written, a lot in the past few days about the shuttle tradgedy and the future of the space program. This topic is a rathar personal one for me.
I am an astronomer, and for 15 years I worked as an educator. The space shuttle and space station were subjects that I spent a lot of time teaching children about.
I attended a conference at NASA in Houston during John Glenn's shuttle flight. I was fortunate enough to be allowed into the Mission Control Center while they were tracking the shuttle's progress.I remember standing over the shoulder of a doctor who was monitoring Glenn's vital signs as part of an experiment. I could see his heartbeat on the computer monitor. This image made a profound impression on me. From the cold darkness beyond our world comes the sound of a human heart beating.
I guess part of it is the teacher within me, and part of it is being too close to the subject. I feel compelled to defend the work that these men and women dedicate their lives to.
Posted by lostsailor on February 6, 2003, at 13:59:26
In reply to space shuttle memories, posted by M. Lee on February 6, 2003, at 12:30:13
Mlee,
I have seen some neg. postings on here and other places about this topic. My comment about letterman was wrong. I, at times, deal with strong emotions with cynical humor and am trying to do that less.
My point was that I pray for all involved and that my post was in reply to one I think I read here, perhaps not on this bored or site but from another that was very negative. So, I may have gotten confused while writing.
I remember being in high school math class as we watched this happen before and have never forgotten the moment much like those slightly older then me describe what the were doing when JFK was killed. My uncle was part of an engineering team that helped design the first shuttle robotic arm. My best friend's brother is an airline pilot that personally knows one of the families involved. This topic means much to me on a personal note and I my have written in haste and anger.
I eagerly apologize for any miscommunication or articulation in previous post....
~Tony
Posted by M. Lee on February 6, 2003, at 17:37:27
In reply to my post. mlee+others offended pls read!!!!, posted by lostsailor on February 6, 2003, at 13:59:26
Lostsailor,
I was not offended by your message at all.
I tend to agree that there has been too much discussion about the future of the shuttle, too soon after the tradgedy. I have contributed to that myself (and not just here)
My last message wasn't directed to what you wrote.
It was more of an explanation about why I've been writing about the shuttle (teaching about space is what I do) and why I get defensive when I write about the importance of space research.
Posted by syringachalet on February 6, 2003, at 21:08:01
In reply to Re: my post. mlee+others offended pls read!!!! » lostsailor, posted by M. Lee on February 6, 2003, at 17:37:27
I think that we should have have a little more time to heal from Saturdays disaster.
I agree that the manned space program should continue.
Each of those seven astronaunts and their familys knew the risks involved in space flight.
I think the American country singer, Garth Brooks, said it well when he said,
"I could have missed the pain but I would have had to miss the dance... and I wouldnt have missed that for the world..."
They left their mark in history never to be forgotten.
syringachalet
Posted by Marathon Man on February 6, 2003, at 23:01:26
In reply to Re: my post. mlee+others offended pls read!!!!, posted by syringachalet on February 6, 2003, at 21:08:01
Unlike Mlee I do not have a vested interest in the shuttle program. I agree with numerous renouned scientists that the mannned program does not provide good sound science. It is not cost efficient. Unmanned can give us much more return with our limited funds. Just because so many folks like Mlee get a woody over their " Star Wars" fettish with space exploration, is no reason for us as a nation to be irresponsible! We need every penny we can get to expand the knowledge of Mental illness. Sure if your illness is so mild and easily treated your likely to be cavalier and think things are good enough as they are. I have'nt been so lucky along with millions of others. We are many but so impaired we are mostly silent. Unlike the loud mouthed proponates of manned space. Think of all the people who have perished from these illnesses. Our understanding of mental illness is a national scandal.
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 7, 2003, at 22:38:02
In reply to I don't think the manned program should continue!, posted by Marathon Man on February 6, 2003, at 23:01:26
> so many folks like Mlee get a woody over their " Star Wars" fettish with space exploration
> Sure if your illness is so mild and easily treated your likely to be cavalier and think things are good enough as they are... We are many but so impaired we are mostly silent. Unlike the loud mouthed proponates of manned space.
Please respect the views of others and be sensitive to their feelings. Different points of view are fine, and in fact encouraged, but please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down. I specifically asked that this thread be kept civil, so I'm going to block you from posting for a week.
Bob
PS: Follow-ups regarding posting policies should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration; otherwise, they may be deleted.
This is the end of the thread.
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