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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by stjames on August 3, 2001, at 0:53:24
From: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/assault/roots/freud.html
Hostility and discrimination against homosexual individuals are well-established facts. On occasion, these negative attitudes lead to hostile verbal and physical acts against gay individuals with little apparent motivation except a strong dislike. In fact, more than 90% of gay men and lesbians report being targets of verbal abuse or threats, and more than one-third report being survivors of violence related to their homosexuality. Although negative attitudes and behaviors toward gay individuals have been assumed to be associated with rigid moralistic beliefs, sexual ignorance, and fear of homosexuality, the etiology of these attitudes and behaviors remains a puzzle. Weinberg ( 1972 ) labeled these attitudes and behaviors homophobia, which he defined as the dread of being in close quarters with homosexual men and women as well as irrational fear, hatred, and intolerance by heterosexual individuals of homosexual men and women.
snip
Specifically, the present study was designed to investigate whether homophobic men show more sexual arousal to homosexual cues than nonhomophobic men as suggested by psychoanalytic theory. . . .
The results of this study indicate that individuals who score in the homophobic range and admit negative affect toward homosexuality demonstrate significant sexual arousal to male homosexual erotic stimuli.
James here...
The actual study is password protected but basically they showed gay porn to very homophobic men and not
homophobic men. The homophobic men got erections and other signs of sexual arousal while the other group did not. Isn't that special ? I always wondered why 3 men jumped out of a car and knocked me to the ground and started kicking me, people I did not know and had done nothing to. They were quite surprized when a bar full of buff gay men attacked them. One was about to hit me with a baseball bat. Thank god for buff gay men.james
Posted by sar on August 3, 2001, at 3:09:10
In reply to Roots of Homophobia, seems Freud was right, posted by stjames on August 3, 2001, at 0:53:24
oh james,
do you think maybe they became erect simply just because they were afraid if doing so under scrutiny, wathing gay porn? (While the "non-homophobes" had nothing to hide... :) )
just a theory.
denial is a funny strange thing! many times i have wished to be a lesbian...but alas, i am not...but i wonder if i'd become aroused at les porn supossing i watched porn?
it would probably all depend on the style and era.
anyway james, ya read any armistead maupin? he's one of my favorites. i breezed through his books like a gay moviestar thru a turkish bath.
love,
sar
Posted by Simcha on August 3, 2001, at 8:00:50
In reply to Roots of Homophobia, seems Freud was right, posted by stjames on August 3, 2001, at 0:53:24
stjames,
Heh...Heh...Heh... ;-)
Sorry you were attacked buddy.... I'm glad to hear that the culprits got theirs from the very men they hate. ;-)
I was attacked in an alley in Chicago by three young men. I was walking with my date to his car. Three men came up from behind us and started to yell ,"Faggots, homos, sissies, queers!" (You'd think that they could be more imaginative.) Anyway they started to through bottles and rocks at us. All of a sudden one of them punches my date in the back of his head. My date went flying head first into a telephone poll. His head gashed open, blood was rushing out, and he was staggering.
I felt a ringing in my ears and I turned around and confronted our assailants. One of them had a stick. Another had a pipe. And another had a knife. I faced them and with all of my rage I said, "You better get the F*** out of here right now!" Then I ran at them. They fled!!!!
Half way down the alley I started to come to and I ran back to my friend. I brought him to a local bar and we got the police and an ambulance. One of the burly lesbian cops shook me and said, "You see these guys, you call us... You don't try anything..." She knew I was out for blood. I wanted to run them down with my car!!!
It's kind of interesting to think that those three young men might be gay themselves and in denial. I think it's kind of poetic justice that they have to live with the awful guilt of attacking their own kind.
> From: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/assault/roots/freud.html
>
> Hostility and discrimination against homosexual individuals are well-established facts. On occasion, these negative attitudes lead to hostile verbal and physical acts against gay individuals with little apparent motivation except a strong dislike. In fact, more than 90% of gay men and lesbians report being targets of verbal abuse or threats, and more than one-third report being survivors of violence related to their homosexuality. Although negative attitudes and behaviors toward gay individuals have been assumed to be associated with rigid moralistic beliefs, sexual ignorance, and fear of homosexuality, the etiology of these attitudes and behaviors remains a puzzle. Weinberg ( 1972 ) labeled these attitudes and behaviors homophobia, which he defined as the dread of being in close quarters with homosexual men and women as well as irrational fear, hatred, and intolerance by heterosexual individuals of homosexual men and women.
>
> snip
>
> Specifically, the present study was designed to investigate whether homophobic men show more sexual arousal to homosexual cues than nonhomophobic men as suggested by psychoanalytic theory. . . .
>
> The results of this study indicate that individuals who score in the homophobic range and admit negative affect toward homosexuality demonstrate significant sexual arousal to male homosexual erotic stimuli.
>
> James here...
>
> The actual study is password protected but basically they showed gay porn to very homophobic men and not
> homophobic men. The homophobic men got erections and other signs of sexual arousal while the other group did not. Isn't that special ? I always wondered why 3 men jumped out of a car and knocked me to the ground and started kicking me, people I did not know and had done nothing to. They were quite surprized when a bar full of buff gay men attacked them. One was about to hit me with a baseball bat. Thank god for buff gay men.
>
> james
Posted by Adam on August 3, 2001, at 11:33:43
In reply to Roots of Homophobia, seems Freud was right, posted by stjames on August 3, 2001, at 0:53:24
stjames, your experiences are very unfortunate. I think there is certainly reason to believe that homophobia stems, in some cases, from fear of one's self, which is projected outwards at those who embody the fear.
But if homophobia is, indeed, a bona fide "phobia", then it must be considered that the anxiety one might experience while being confronted with images of homoeroticism or pornography can cause a state of intense physical arousal. It has been demonstrated in studies done years ago (don't have the references offhand) that people, when made anxious, actually get more "turned on" then when calm, when presented with sexual stimuli.
"Gay" and "straight" are rather rigid classifications. I think the best way to deal with human sexuality is to acknowlege varying degrees of homo- and heterotic capacity in each individual, which by no means remains the same throughout life. There are certainly people who are strictly homo or hetero, and everything in between. People can flip-flop. We're all over the map, really, and would probably be more so if there were not societal pressures to conform to a strictly hetero lifestyle.
Given that anxiety can enhance sexual arousal, and that people are not strictly confined to a particular sexual preference, making the leap from "violent homophobes get erections when they see gay porn" to "violent gay-bashers are gay" isn't that easy. I'm not even sure that it has much meaning, under scrutiny. I prefer to leave Freud out of most modern discussions anyway, since Freud is hardly an example of one who strived for scientific accuracy or rigor. Other hypotheses need to be considered and ruled out. This is not to diminish the concern that "autohomophobia" cannot lead to acts of violence against others in some cases, and that addressing such a concern would be helpful to society as a whole, it's just that I feel one needs to be a bit ambivalent about such theories. Human sexuality is too complicated not to have such cautions.
> From: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/assault/roots/freud.html
>
> Hostility and discrimination against homosexual individuals are well-established facts. On occasion, these negative attitudes lead to hostile verbal and physical acts against gay individuals with little apparent motivation except a strong dislike. In fact, more than 90% of gay men and lesbians report being targets of verbal abuse or threats, and more than one-third report being survivors of violence related to their homosexuality. Although negative attitudes and behaviors toward gay individuals have been assumed to be associated with rigid moralistic beliefs, sexual ignorance, and fear of homosexuality, the etiology of these attitudes and behaviors remains a puzzle. Weinberg ( 1972 ) labeled these attitudes and behaviors homophobia, which he defined as the dread of being in close quarters with homosexual men and women as well as irrational fear, hatred, and intolerance by heterosexual individuals of homosexual men and women.
>
> snip
>
> Specifically, the present study was designed to investigate whether homophobic men show more sexual arousal to homosexual cues than nonhomophobic men as suggested by psychoanalytic theory. . . .
>
> The results of this study indicate that individuals who score in the homophobic range and admit negative affect toward homosexuality demonstrate significant sexual arousal to male homosexual erotic stimuli.
>
> James here...
>
> The actual study is password protected but basically they showed gay porn to very homophobic men and not
> homophobic men. The homophobic men got erections and other signs of sexual arousal while the other group did not. Isn't that special ? I always wondered why 3 men jumped out of a car and knocked me to the ground and started kicking me, people I did not know and had done nothing to. They were quite surprized when a bar full of buff gay men attacked them. One was about to hit me with a baseball bat. Thank god for buff gay men.
>
> james
Posted by medlib on August 3, 2001, at 12:14:48
In reply to Roots of Homophobia, seems Freud was right, posted by stjames on August 3, 2001, at 0:53:24
Hi James--
My first reaction was, Oh, my--yet another study docummenting the obvious; how do they get funding?" I thought that Freud's conclusions on this topic were a given--at least among the educated. The others wouldn't have heard of Freud anyway.
When I was growing up, race and religion were the preferred targets. (Southerners were equal opportunity bigots.) Then I learned in school that every society, past and present, has had someone to hate. Since that is so clearly illogical, I concluded that human beings must have an autosomal dominant gene which codes for such discriminatory stupidity. So, when Freud's concepts were presented in psych class, some of them were easy to accept--at least they had *some* logic to them, however perverse.
Over the years I've observed that the most effective way to diminish dysfunctional behavior long-term is to render it socially embarrassing. Smoking, drunk driving, and openly expressed bigotry are examples. Which is why it's so ironic that your study report is hidden behind password protection; what better instrument could there be to raise public embarrassment over gay bashing? More headway could be made were it on the cover of Newsweek.
At one time I hoped that violence against individuals would become socially unacceptable, too--but that was my Star-Trek-optimist stage. You were fortunate to have logistical support nearby when you were attacked. One would hope that any adult would come to the aid of *anyone* being victimized. But until that science fiction becomes reality, or unless you now travel only with a posse, perhaps *you'd* better carry a bat.
Take good care---medlib
P.S. Loved your "ankle-biter" image on PBA--'specially since I envisioned the same thing while reading the current PB page. Mine was a fox terrrier.
Posted by kid_A on August 3, 2001, at 12:30:09
In reply to Roots of Homophobia, seems Freud was right, posted by stjames on August 3, 2001, at 0:53:24
I've read similar, It seems to make good sense that the most agressive homophobes seem to be repressing some sort of hidden emotion, hidden perhaps even to them...I'm sure its not 100%, as if every homophobe has repressed feelings of attraction, but it is rather telling even in non-agressive homo-paranoid types, those that agressively try to prove that they are red-blooded woman loving american men... The stratus of pathology is pretty broad I think when it comes to this type of behaviour...
Posted by stjames on August 3, 2001, at 16:22:58
In reply to Re: Roots of Homophobia, seems Freud was right, posted by kid_A on August 3, 2001, at 12:30:09
> I've read similar, It seems to make good sense that the most agressive homophobes seem to be repressing some sort of hidden emotion, hidden perhaps even to them...
>
> I'm sure its not 100%, as if every homophobe has repressed feelings of attraction, but it is rather telling even in non-agressive homo-paranoid types, those that agressively try to prove that they are red-blooded woman loving american men... The stratus of pathology is pretty broad I think when it comes to this type of behaviour...James here....
Yes, yes, yes ! After I posted this I realized I should of made this point. I feel that just because some may not like gays, this in no way means they are repressed. People fear what they don't know, that is all. It is the rabid homophobes that are more likely to be acting on
repressed homosexual issues. Anger and hate, while directed at others, often have more to do with the actual personjames
Posted by dreamer on August 3, 2001, at 16:37:12
In reply to Re: Roots of Homophobia, seems Freud was right, posted by sar on August 3, 2001, at 3:09:10
many times i have wished to be a lesbian...but alas,
Many times I've wished to be straight life would be easier.
...but i wonder if i'd become aroused at les porn supossing i watched porn?
I do get aroused by males doing the act cause it just turns on the sex switch .
ex-bi - with men mind somewhere else.
>
Posted by stjames on August 3, 2001, at 18:52:58
In reply to Re: Was there doubt? » stjames, posted by medlib on August 3, 2001, at 12:14:48
> Hi James--
>
> My first reaction was, Oh, my--yet another study docummenting the obvious; how do they get funding?" I thought that Freud's conclusions on this topic were a given--at least among the educated. The others wouldn't have heard of Freud anyway.James here....
I agree it is nothing new but the word needs to be repeated again and again. It was not too long ago that they strung Matt Shepard up on a fence and left him to die. Also the religous right seems to be able to find quacks with medical degrees to write studies counterning what what you and I understand a clear fact.
james
Posted by Shar on August 3, 2001, at 20:07:15
In reply to Re: Was there doubt? » stjames, posted by medlib on August 3, 2001, at 12:14:48
> Hi James--
>
> My first reaction was, Oh, my--yet another study docummenting the obvious; how do they get funding?".......My reaction, too. And reading this thread someone brought up extra-macho males (a well-known Southern phenomenon). That put me in mind of my own little theory about pick up trucks, jeeps, suv's, etc. with huge tires.
I believe there is a strong, negative correlation between tire size and penis size. Probably applies to gun size also.
It's like driving around announcing to all who will listen "I have a little penis, and it bothers me, too." Consider yourselves warned, ladies.
Shar in Texas
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