![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by AMenz on June 23, 2001, at 14:36:44
What a severe miscalculation on the part of that family. Homeschooling and additional child after postpartum depression. Seems like a pressure cooker in retrospect
Posted by mair on June 23, 2001, at 21:35:33
In reply to Houston Tragedy- depressed mom, posted by AMenz on June 23, 2001, at 14:36:44
> This whole episode is extremely upsetting. One account said that she had been thinking about this for 4 months. How is it that no one picked up on it? I can sort of understand that the husband was clueless because at my most suicidal, I've at least been able to mask things pretty well. However, any word on whether she was in therapy or whether her meds were prescribed by a pdoc and not some other kind of doc? I can slide things by my family, but I've been pretty unsuccessful sliding things by my therapist and pdoc, at least when they're paying attention.
Mair
Posted by yo-wazzzup on June 24, 2001, at 1:17:00
In reply to Re: Houston Tragedy- depressed mom, posted by mair on June 23, 2001, at 21:35:33
Does anyone know what she was medicated with? My heart aches for all affected by this. I know all too well what post pardom can feel like. I had it with my first (who's 9) & I'm currently battling it, my youngest is 7.5 months. Although I don't have thoughts of harming my children. I do have obsessive thoughts of protecting my children from the rest of the world. I have terrible nightmares that are vivid. I've spent days crying for no reason, etc. Hence the Paxil which began a few days after my son's birth. My GP gave it to me. It helped for a while but then I believe strongly that it did more harm than good. I've had serious memory loss, done things I don't recall doing, couldn't control anger-raged, and was crying @ the drop of a hat again...felt like I was losing touch with reality. I've been tapering off for a little over a week now & I'm down to 10mg. per day Having shitty (can I say that outloud?) withdrawl...so is my breastfed son unfortunately. I was initially told paxil was completely safe. The best choice for nursing Moms. CRAP! If this is what safe is ... I'm going to see a psychiatrist for the first time in over 10 years on the 5th of july. He wanted my GP to wien me from paxil to possibly switch to EFFEXOR...I haven't researched it yet, but I'm a little nervous. Honestly, smokin' weed (I haven't in 2yrs.) worked just fine for my post traumatic stress. I could function just fine. Had minimal anxiety attacks. Had decreased flash backs. Found humor in almost everything. Life was a little more relaxed & 'simple. Frankly the whole pharmacutical bit scares me. Feel like a GUINEA HUMAN for drug companies. I was analyzing the Houston tragedy as I tossed & turned unable to sleep last night. I pick everything to pieces - bad habit - I have an irrestable urdge to need to know WHY things are. Anyways, I thought of several scenerios...the one that stuck with me was the thought of her father passing on 2 months ago. I think that was the straw (as they say). Maybe in some twisted way she was trying to protect her babies from the rest of the world. Maybe sending them to a better place to be with her Dad? If she thought this world brought so much unbearable misery, perhaps she believed she was sparing them the pain. I KNOW THAT'S A MESSED UP WAY TO THINK BUT REMEMBER SHE WAS NOT THINKING RATIONALLY. I don't excuse what she's done. It breaks my heart each time I see those 4 little boys on the news & I burst into tears when precious little Mary appears on my TV in her frilly lil' pink dress. How many more lives will be lost before the world takes notice & makes mental health a PRIORITY, an issue to be dealt with & not swept under the rug? :o(
Posted by kazoo on June 24, 2001, at 1:30:22
In reply to Re: Houston Tragedy- depressed mom, posted by yo-wazzzup on June 24, 2001, at 1:17:00
> How many more lives will be lost before the world takes notice & makes mental health a PRIORITY, an issue to be dealt with & not swept under the rug? :o(
^^^^^^^^^^
"Who ya gonna call" for help? Certainly not the jackass who hee-haws in the Whitehouse at the present time.kazoo
Posted by AMenz on June 24, 2001, at 9:54:17
In reply to Re: Houston Tragedy'depressed mom'neglectful dad » yo-wazzzup, posted by kazoo on June 24, 2001, at 1:30:22
I agree. In addition in family planning depression is not taken into account. How many children can you handle if you are depressed? If you had parkinson's or multiple sclerosis that would be taken into account. The failure to see that mental illness involves the brain and its chemistry leads people to ignore the impact of these conditions on child rearing.
what is a woman with four children doing planning a fifth after suffering a post partum psychotic depression.
I am a bipolar I had one kid. I had plenty of help because I was aware of hypomanic rage, uncontrollable. If I'd have five I probably would have snapped.
I also think the father was irresponsible in planning for such a large family. And irresponsible in compounding the stress by having the children homeschooled. That was a recipe for disaster. And it happened.
A.
> > How many more lives will be lost before the world takes notice & makes mental health a PRIORITY, an issue to be dealt with & not swept under the rug? :o(
>
> ^^^^^^^^^^
> "Who ya gonna call" for help? Certainly not the jackass who hee-haws in the Whitehouse at the present time.
>
> kazoo
Posted by AMenz on June 24, 2001, at 10:03:49
In reply to Re: Houston Tragedy- depressed mom, posted by yo-wazzzup on June 24, 2001, at 1:17:00
Forgive me for giving you an opinion meant kindly. REduce your stress. I was a depressed-hypomanci mother, too. Mistakes I made were trying to do what I thought was right without counting my medical condition.
Eliminate sources of stress. Breast feeding is wonderful. But is it creating too much stress. Formula then would not be sobad if it helps the mother cope better with her child.
Do you need time to yourself since child rearing can be very stressful. Make child caring arrangements you can afford. Day care for a couple of hours a day. These options which may seem like neglect to some supermoms are actually ways to keep your child happy by providing a less stressed mother able to cope with small children.
The American method of locking up a single mother with a number of children is a recipe for depression. In the past extended family members cooperated with childrearing. I think that is why at the dawn of the 21st century depression is a specter in so many homes.
> Does anyone know what she was medicated with? My heart aches for all affected by this. I know all too well what post pardom can feel like. I had it with my first (who's 9) & I'm currently battling it, my youngest is 7.5 months. Although I don't have thoughts of harming my children. I do have obsessive thoughts of protecting my children from the rest of the world. I have terrible nightmares that are vivid. I've spent days crying for no reason, etc. Hence the Paxil which began a few days after my son's birth. My GP gave it to me. It helped for a while but then I believe strongly that it did more harm than good. I've had serious memory loss, done things I don't recall doing, couldn't control anger-raged, and was crying @ the drop of a hat again...felt like I was losing touch with reality. I've been tapering off for a little over a week now & I'm down to 10mg. per day Having shitty (can I say that outloud?) withdrawl...so is my breastfed son unfortunately. I was initially told paxil was completely safe. The best choice for nursing Moms. CRAP! If this is what safe is ... I'm going to see a psychiatrist for the first time in over 10 years on the 5th of july. He wanted my GP to wien me from paxil to possibly switch to EFFEXOR...I haven't researched it yet, but I'm a little nervous. Honestly, smokin' weed (I haven't in 2yrs.) worked just fine for my post traumatic stress. I could function just fine. Had minimal anxiety attacks. Had decreased flash backs. Found humor in almost everything. Life was a little more relaxed & 'simple. Frankly the whole pharmacutical bit scares me. Feel like a GUINEA HUMAN for drug companies. I was analyzing the Houston tragedy as I tossed & turned unable to sleep last night. I pick everything to pieces - bad habit - I have an irrestable urdge to need to know WHY things are. Anyways, I thought of several scenerios...the one that stuck with me was the thought of her father passing on 2 months ago. I think that was the straw (as they say). Maybe in some twisted way she was trying to protect her babies from the rest of the world. Maybe sending them to a better place to be with her Dad? If she thought this world brought so much unbearable misery, perhaps she believed she was sparing them the pain. I KNOW THAT'S A MESSED UP WAY TO THINK BUT REMEMBER SHE WAS NOT THINKING RATIONALLY. I don't excuse what she's done. It breaks my heart each time I see those 4 little boys on the news & I burst into tears when precious little Mary appears on my TV in her frilly lil' pink dress. How many more lives will be lost before the world takes notice & makes mental health a PRIORITY, an issue to be dealt with & not swept under the rug? :o(
Posted by Cass on June 25, 2001, at 21:25:17
In reply to Re: Houston Tragedy- depressed mom, posted by mair on June 23, 2001, at 21:35:33
The story is incredibly disturbing, especially hearing that she chased the 7 year old down when he figured out what was happening, but I was almost equally disturbed when I saw the interview with her husband only a day after the killings. He seemed so flip about it. I think he must have some psychological problems, too.
Posted by Phil on June 25, 2001, at 21:49:37
In reply to Re: Houston Tragedy- depressed mom, posted by Cass on June 25, 2001, at 21:25:17
> The story is incredibly disturbing, especially hearing that she chased the 7 year old down when he figured out what was happening, but I was almost equally disturbed when I saw the interview with her husband only a day after the killings. He seemed so flip about it. I think he must have some psychological problems, too.
__________
Cass, I thought the same thing. Really strange.
Posted by yo-wazzzup on June 25, 2001, at 22:42:20
In reply to Re: Houston Tragedy- depressed mom-Cass, posted by Phil on June 25, 2001, at 21:49:37
> > The story is incredibly disturbing, especially hearing that she chased the 7 year old down when he figured out what was happening, but I was almost equally disturbed when I saw the interview with her husband only a day after the killings. He seemed so flip about it. I think he must have some psychological problems, too.
> __________
> Cass, I thought the same thing. Really strange.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I haven't seen any interviews on T.V. but I know the guy's in SHOCK maybe that's what's goin' on ?
Posted by AKC on June 26, 2001, at 13:23:28
In reply to Houston Tragedy- depressed mom, posted by AMenz on June 23, 2001, at 14:36:44
I just got back from lunch with a couple of coworkers where this came up. And what has been spinning round and round in my mind has to come out. I'm thankful that I have a safe place like this to share.
There has been so much written already, so many stories on tv, so much spin put on this story. Who is to blame? The only answer is everyone and no one. Obviously this poor woman is very, very ill. While I hate the sterotypes the lawyer was trying to conjure, he was somewhat right when he said that this mother had to be "out of her mind" to do this.
The thing is that we are trying to understand the impossible. Some people say she shouldn't have had another kid if she suffered from post-partum depression. But I would venture to guess that many, many a mother have had many kids after having suffered post-partum depression. Maybe the father worked too much. I don't know. He was a white collar government worker - a lot of them get to go home at five. And I know a lot of dads who have to work a lot to support their families but do alright by them (I have a brother who is my biggest hero, though I just worry to death he will work himself into a grave trying to be the best he can be to his kids, but working as hard as he does to support his family). They were homeschooling. A mistake with her depression? Again, hindsight - easy call. Again, I'm sure we can find many examples of where it works.
I shared last week about the secretary who made some remark about the meds - and my brief comment that it had nothing, absolutely nothing to do with the meds. I don't know. How can I say that? For most of these meds, researchers are not even sure how they work. This message board is a great example on how one med can effect so many people so many different ways.
I think one very important result should occur from all of this. That more research, more dollars into research, must occur into the causes and cures of mental illness. Because we don't know exactly what causes it (was it a genetic disposition in this mother's case? environment? a trauma?), it is almost impossible to predict, and therefore almost impossible to prevent. It is so easy to look at this tragedy and pick out all these signs and now say look, you "should have known." Yeah, and a lot of people should have seen my suicide attempt coming a couple of years ago and didn't. It's what we do going forward, not looking back, that will really count.
Posted by yo-wazzzup on June 26, 2001, at 15:01:41
In reply to Re: Houston Tragedy- I just have to comment, posted by AKC on June 26, 2001, at 13:23:28
> I just got back from lunch with a couple of coworkers where this came up. And what has been spinning round and round in my mind has to come out. I'm thankful that I have a safe place like this to share.
>
> There has been so much written already, so many stories on tv, so much spin put on this story. Who is to blame? The only answer is everyone and no one. Obviously this poor woman is very, very ill. While I hate the sterotypes the lawyer was trying to conjure, he was somewhat right when he said that this mother had to be "out of her mind" to do this.
>
> The thing is that we are trying to understand the impossible. Some people say she shouldn't have had another kid if she suffered from post-partum depression. But I would venture to guess that many, many a mother have had many kids after having suffered post-partum depression. Maybe the father worked too much. I don't know. He was a white collar government worker - a lot of them get to go home at five. And I know a lot of dads who have to work a lot to support their families but do alright by them (I have a brother who is my biggest hero, though I just worry to death he will work himself into a grave trying to be the best he can be to his kids, but working as hard as he does to support his family). They were homeschooling. A mistake with her depression? Again, hindsight - easy call. Again, I'm sure we can find many examples of where it works.
>
> I shared last week about the secretary who made some remark about the meds - and my brief comment that it had nothing, absolutely nothing to do with the meds. I don't know. How can I say that? For most of these meds, researchers are not even sure how they work. This message board is a great example on how one med can effect so many people so many different ways.
>
> I think one very important result should occur from all of this. That more research, more dollars into research, must occur into the causes and cures of mental illness. Because we don't know exactly what causes it (was it a genetic disposition in this mother's case? environment? a trauma?), it is almost impossible to predict, and therefore almost impossible to prevent. It is so easy to look at this tragedy and pick out all these signs and now say look, you "should have known." Yeah, and a lot of people should have seen my suicide attempt coming a couple of years ago and didn't. It's what we do going forward, not looking back, that will really count.
Posted by AKC on June 27, 2001, at 11:17:13
In reply to Well said ;o) no post » AKC, posted by yo-wazzzup on June 26, 2001, at 15:01:41
If you are interested in knowing more on post-partum depression, I thought Newsweek did an excellant job reporting on this story this week. In fact, I was surprised on just how much ground researchers have already made regarding this illness. Of course, there is so much further to go, as there is with all mental illness.
A further comment - I also thought 60 Minutes II did a good job on their report last night regarding police response to emotionally disturbed person calls and the lack of training that exists in virtually all police departments. If you have an opportunity to catch a repeat of this report at a later date, I would recommend it.
Posted by Roo on June 28, 2001, at 8:22:08
In reply to One more follow-up, posted by AKC on June 27, 2001, at 11:17:13
http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2001/06/24/andrea_yates/index.html
Posted by Lorraine on July 1, 2001, at 12:11:46
In reply to Re: Houston Tragedy--Salon Article, posted by Roo on June 28, 2001, at 8:22:08
> http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2001/06/24/andrea_yates/index.html
*************
Iwant to thank you for posting this. I could not read any of the news accounts. I was too afraid and the hype would have hurt. I knew a Salon article would take a different tack so I took the chance and read it. It brought tears to my eyes.
Posted by AMenz on July 2, 2001, at 9:28:28
In reply to Re: Houston Tragedy--Salon Article, posted by Lorraine on July 1, 2001, at 12:11:46
I didn't like the word pity. I want empathy for all of us. I want the world to recognize that there are abilities within our disabilities. I want the world to make room for us.
> > http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2001/06/24/andrea_yates/index.html
>
> *************
> Iwant to thank you for posting this. I could not read any of the news accounts. I was too afraid and the hype would have hurt. I knew a Salon article would take a different tack so I took the chance and read it. It brought tears to my eyes.
Posted by triedit on September 12, 2001, at 20:16:44
In reply to Re: Houston Tragedy--Salon Article, posted by AMenz on July 2, 2001, at 9:28:28
There is a very good article on this in Chatelain (Canada's Cosmo clone). Last year a physician jumped in front of a subway train with her 6 mo infant. The magazine tells her story. She was on meds, an educated medical professional and daughter of a physician and a psychoanalyst. She was known to be a bit compulsive but after the birth of her child got really nutty. She knew they were planning to admit her and snuck out.
My child is just turned 7 months old. I was doing ok--getting better actually--on the meds until yesterday when the US was attacked. I am an american citizen living in canada and my husband works in a really tall tower on Bay Street in Toronto which is like Wall Street is to the US. I managed to make it to my doctor's office (with my infant and in my car because I was too terrified to go in the subway). My husband had to drive me and the baby home and stay with me afterward. I havent left the apartment since, but I did manage to get out of the bedroom to read this board. I also got dressed this afternoon. Im physically exhausted with no apparant reason. Yet I seem relatively coherent, managing to answer email and manage some genealogy email listserves that I am responsible for.
It's the strangest thing. Like functioning without control of my brain or my body. I know Im in here somewhere.
I also seem to be (mistakenly) hearing people knock on the front door. Sometimes it seems someone is whispering in the baby monitor. My family doesnt seem concerned, but Im not sure I should be left alone.
So...ok Im done. I think I just needed to get it out. Thanks.
Posted by susan C on September 13, 2001, at 19:15:30
In reply to postpartum depression, posted by triedit on September 12, 2001, at 20:16:44
It is thursday, just saw your note, I think I am having a delayed reaction. I know the knocking on door feeling, jumping at the sound of silence. No planes overhead. Decisions and no decisions to be made. Do you have some one to check in on you? do you know about psycho babble open? My husband needs to call me and check on me. I need to call him. Thinking of you,
Mouse being quiet
susan C> There is a very good article on this in Chatelain (Canada's Cosmo clone). Last year a physician jumped in front of a subway train with her 6 mo infant. The magazine tells her story. She was on meds, an educated medical professional and daughter of a physician and a psychoanalyst. She was known to be a bit compulsive but after the birth of her child got really nutty. She knew they were planning to admit her and snuck out.
>
> My child is just turned 7 months old. I was doing ok--getting better actually--on the meds until yesterday when the US was attacked. I am an american citizen living in canada and my husband works in a really tall tower on Bay Street in Toronto which is like Wall Street is to the US. I managed to make it to my doctor's office (with my infant and in my car because I was too terrified to go in the subway). My husband had to drive me and the baby home and stay with me afterward. I havent left the apartment since, but I did manage to get out of the bedroom to read this board. I also got dressed this afternoon. Im physically exhausted with no apparant reason. Yet I seem relatively coherent, managing to answer email and manage some genealogy email listserves that I am responsible for.
>
> It's the strangest thing. Like functioning without control of my brain or my body. I know Im in here somewhere.
>
> I also seem to be (mistakenly) hearing people knock on the front door. Sometimes it seems someone is whispering in the baby monitor. My family doesnt seem concerned, but Im not sure I should be left alone.
>
>
> So...ok Im done. I think I just needed to get it out. Thanks.
Posted by triedit on September 13, 2001, at 19:49:33
In reply to Re: postpartum depression, posted by susan C on September 13, 2001, at 19:15:30
Thank you Susan. Im fortunate to have a 14 year old who comes home from school in the afternoon, plus my husband calls about every hour.
Im MUCH better today. I turned off the TV for awhile. I never knew how much I could miss Regis and Rosie LOL
I actually went out today.
Thank you for caring about me.
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Social | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.