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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by ClearSkies on August 26, 2007, at 14:34:37
Helped step daughter make arrangements to get into a safe house today. She's been completely marginalized - no phone, no job, car barely working, no money. And her relationships with her family, me included, are frayed at the moment. We met for lunch to day (she showed up!! Big hurray!!) and I listened while she meandered through her very sorry story.
There's so much more going on here than just the unhealthy relationship with the boyfriend. Step daughter can't keep her stories straight, and tells completely different lies to *everybody*, right in front of us. No wonder they are all coming back to kick her in the behind no sooner than they leave her mouth. I wasn't sure I'd be OK to hear it all and not lose my cool. But I just listened, and didn't accuse. I expect that like peeling the layers off an onion, the other issues will surface.
We left her with plans in place - and that's all we can do. She can't stay with either us or her mom, because her boyfriend knows of both places and has already ambushed her once. (But she didn't call the cops, because why? She's not saying. She was with a friend who had a phone, but we think something less than legal was going on that they didn't want the police to see.) She's 25 years old, and she's the person who has to do the hard work, if she chooses to do it. Giving her love is the easy part. Watching her not love herself is very, very hard.
ClearSkies
Posted by ClearSkies on August 31, 2007, at 7:48:19
In reply to Emotionally tapped out, posted by ClearSkies on August 26, 2007, at 14:34:37
She left the safe house, moved in with a friend (so we hear, she doesn't get in touch with us directly). And now her car had broken down. So how to look for a job without a phone to be contacted at, without a car to get to the job?
DH wants to drive down to where she is supposedly staying, bring her up to stay with us where she will have a phone to use. Wants to get her car fixed for her, and pay up either for repairs or outstanding insurance and deductable to get repairs done. Would insist on no drugs in the house. Wants to impose a curfew - in by 10pm. Wants to impose the rule that she find a job within 7 days of staying here. Or.... what? Kick her out again? We went through this 2 years ago when she graduated college, except it was 5 months that she stayed with us, didn't look for a job, and partied with her friends for all hours. DH couldn't bring himself to say anything to his daughter because he was afraid of losing her. I was the mean one, the one who lost my temper finally, and she left, vowing never to return. The damage done to our relationship put us where we are today.
I counseled my DH to call the therapist and ask her advice. I wouldn't sanction the hunting down of step daughter to give her help that, in the past, she has not accepted the conditions for. She lasted one night at her mother's, who got mad at her for being drunk and wasted, and spending gas money on partying with her friends.
Please, please, some advice. It feels all wrong to stand my ground. It feels like I'm directly responsible for whatever bad might happen to my step daughter, if I let my DH stand aside. I thought we were doing the right thing in offering the help of therapy, in offering the help of getting her to a shelter where they could help her. And she wants neither of those things. So is it our fault if she gets in worse trouble??
CS
Posted by Phillipa on August 31, 2007, at 10:24:19
In reply to But it doesn't ever end, posted by ClearSkies on August 31, 2007, at 7:48:19
You have to want help to change. But you are in a tough spot. Seems like you won't win either way if something goes wrong. And not good for your mental health. Phillipa
Posted by karen_kay on August 31, 2007, at 11:22:36
In reply to But it doesn't ever end, posted by ClearSkies on August 31, 2007, at 7:48:19
((((((((((((((cs, mister cs, and step daughter))))))))))
sweetie, this must be really tough, especially for you. i can't imagine the strain it's causing between you and mister cs's relationship. and the stress. (((((((cs)))) an extra hug, just for you!!!!
i don't think you're wrong. she's 25. she's an adult. a 10 pm curfew wouldn't do it, you know? someone would cave, sneak out, somethign would happen and it wouldn't be good. honestly, i'd think her moving in with you would jsut end the same way it did before, with more hurt feelings, ect.
sweetie, it soudns to me like she doesn't want to be anywhere that gives her the help and aid she needs that also comes with conditions (shelter, mother's, your house). and it seems you and dh have done nothign short of hand delivering her opportunities.
as harsh as my advice sounds, this is it... send her care packages with lots of food she can eat, things she can't sell for 'fun' (whatever her 'fun' consists of) money, if you know where she is, visit her often, take her out to lunch, set her up with therapy adn offer to get her a cab (not cab money granted, but a cab to take her to and from therapy.. also a good idea for job...) maybe a good idea for the car, but then again, she's 25 you know? are you going to be paying ehr insurance, fixing her car forever if she's not putting in the effort to find a job?
i'm sorry if this sounds harsh sweetie. but, later on, when she's really ready for help and shows she's serious about making changes, then you could talk about different conditons. i don't know if this is something you'd be interested in doing or not. i understand everyone needs help in life. but not everyone is willing to accept the help offered at the time. maybe she's just not ready yet dear.
take care of yourself sweetheart. and i'm here listening and thinking of you adn your family.
love,
kk
Posted by Dinah on August 31, 2007, at 11:48:28
In reply to Emotionally tapped out, posted by ClearSkies on August 26, 2007, at 14:34:37
I agree with Phil and Justherself. In the end, you and your husband have no power over her behavior. And if you have no power, there's no point in taking the responsibility on yourself.
She'll change if and when she's ready, and not one minute before, no matter what you do. KK's suggestions on how you *can* help her without compromising your own boundaries are good ones.
Believe it or not, I'm going through this with my mother. She only calls me about the stuff that's really hard to say no to of course. It's like the local government. She's not going to call to ask for raises for the city councilman, she's going to call about the crisis in the schools or the police department. It's really hard to help her get in touch with people who can help her instead of bailing her out myself. But if I bail her out myself, I'll be bailing her out till my own boat is sinking. That won't help either of us.
Posted by Racer on August 31, 2007, at 12:49:54
In reply to But it doesn't ever end, posted by ClearSkies on August 31, 2007, at 7:48:19
Aw, honey, that must feel so helpless for you! I'm so sorry.
Here's what I learned, about people and their children: sometimes people create dynamics around their children, and then invite other people in to share them. It sounds as though your husband may have gotten into one of those with his daughter, and you've been caught in it. The really unfortunate part is that you're very sensitive, and have experiences that make it much harder for you, emotionally, than it might be for someone else. (I'm thinking about one of my Human Steamroller relatives, who'd likely have no problems at all -- narcissism has its own benefits sometimes, eh?) The main thing to remember is this: you're not to blame. Say it any way it helps you: you're not to blame, you're not responsible, it's not your fault, you didn't create this, you didn't start this, however you need to say it for it to sink in.
As for what to do now, I have a very strong and mixed emotional reaction: on the one hand, what I think would help you most is to take your husband's ear and lead him to marriage counseling, or family counseling, or even an intervention type counseling situation. Some place where the two of you can learn how to support one another through this -- rather than learning your steps in the Family Crisis Dance. What it sounds like now is that you and he have reached a place where it would be all too easy to get into conflict with one another about all this, without benefitting anything or anyone -- except possibly your step-daughter's addiction. That's no one's fault, it's the nature of this sort of situation. Your husband has conflicting loyalties, to you, and to his daughter. It's very hard for anyone to navigate those waters, but especially hard for someone without as much experience in therapy as some of us have. (Not that it does many of me much good, eh?)
The biggest problem I have with all this is based on my own experiences: it wasn't drugs, but for a number of years, I was just not functional enough to work, and I didn't get disability -- I had no treatment, no insurance, no support: except for a certain amount of financial support from my mother. That came at a very high cost to me, and contributed a hell of a lot to me not being functional. Funny, that, huh? I'm sure with the sorts of things I know my mother was saying to people then that she got an awful lot of advice saying, "Cut her off." I know that she told me often that she "should" cut me off. It's a different situation, because I wasn't using the money for "fun." (Hell -- wasn't enough money to keep my lights on all the time, so how much fun could I have had?) That experience, though, makes it so hard for me to say, "Cut her off." I know how it felt to me, and I can't get the Empathy Fairy to shut up enough for me to recommend it. KK's advice, though, sounds awfully good.
Because my Inner Pollyanna is screeching at me right now, I have to ask: do you have enough of a relationship with this girl to talk to her alone? Could you *ask* her what the problem is? Why she's so resistant to the help that's being offered? I know you know this, but I'll say it anyway: being careful not to show your judgment, of course. (Hey -- I'm judging her, and I haven't ever met her. If you *weren't* judging her actions, I'd wonder what you'd done with the real ClearSkies, you pod person!)
Now I'm just babbling. While that's part of what Babble's all about, I don't suspect anyone cares what else might come off my keyboard. I'll stop now.
xoxo
Posted by ClearSkies on August 31, 2007, at 13:45:39
In reply to Re: But it doesn't ever end » ClearSkies, posted by Racer on August 31, 2007, at 12:49:54
> Because my Inner Pollyanna is screeching at me right now, I have to ask: do you have enough of a relationship with this girl to talk to her alone? Could you *ask* her what the problem is? Why she's so resistant to the help that's being offered? I know you know this, but I'll say it anyway: being careful not to show your judgment, of course. (Hey -- I'm judging her, and I haven't ever met her. If you *weren't* judging her actions, I'd wonder what you'd done with the real ClearSkies, you pod person!)
>:-( Unfortunately, from the family counseling that she and her dad have had (all 2 appointments' worth), she has said that she feels betrayed by me because of the time spent living in our home, when I blew up at her for not looking for work, for smoking dope in our house, for lying to me about every other thing that flew out of her mouth... yes. *She* feels betrayed. And that leaves me feeling - well, that the girl needs a mirror, but that she has to show up for the therapy appointments in order to SEE the mirror. And my therapist thinks that, given my step daughter's problems with substance abuse, and my not freshly-minted, but still fragile sobriety, that I'm not the right person to be holding that mirror up to her. With this I am in total agreement. I would love to be the role model for my step daughter, to be her confidante, to be her mentor; but instead I think I would be the thing or person that she'd most like to manipulate. And such a thing would most certainly break me. Actually, every time I've seen her in the past year, I get flash backs to the women that who had become my "friends" during one of trips through AA - women who very quickly abused my friendship once they got 1) the car ride they needed, 2) the money they needed to mooch, or 3) the exuse to give their spouse about who they'd been with.
Whoops, there I go again. I better stop.
cs
Posted by Racer on August 31, 2007, at 14:23:23
In reply to Re: But it doesn't ever end » Racer, posted by ClearSkies on August 31, 2007, at 13:45:39
HoneyBunny, I treasure you and our friendship.
Wanna know why I told you that? Because it sure sounds as though you're not hearing enough about it right now in your life. And not only do you need some of it, you deserve it. You're worthy of it. You're a good and loving person, and you deserve better than this situation is giving you.
Your therapist is absolutely right, you do need to take care of yourself, because you deserve it and will value it. It's not worth devoting emotional energy right now to someone who won't respect it, and is likely to abuse it.
No matter what else you choose to do, go on being the wonderful you.
Posted by ClearSkies on August 31, 2007, at 16:16:31
In reply to I'm glad you're my friend » ClearSkies, posted by Racer on August 31, 2007, at 14:23:23
I'm glad you're my friend too, Racer. And I'm very glad to cry the kind of tears that reading those words bring on. A family in popcorn chaos (isn't that a great term? pop! pop! pop! pop!) doresn't often remember to take the time to tell one another how much they are loved.
I'm very grateful for a friend like you.
cs
Posted by Kath on September 1, 2007, at 22:35:03
In reply to Re: I'm glad you're my friend » Racer, posted by ClearSkies on August 31, 2007, at 16:16:31
(((((((((((((((Dear CS)))))))))))))))
Oh Hunny,How I can relate to what you're going through, even though it is different in many ways from what my husband & I have gone through.
Jeez. Part of me is just shrieking Don't have her in your home.
Then part of me is knowing how very hard it is to want to do WHATEVER you can to help a person. To do what we would want someone to do it WE were the troubled person. The problem is that THEY have to want to change.
Hunny, PLEASE do what you can to protect yourself...meaning to take care of yourself. I think it wouldn't be good for you to have her in your home, but it must be so hard being the stepparent. My husband has been SO great during all my son's stuff (hubby is stepfather to my son).
I hope you make use of all the help lines & whatever agencies are available to help you.
Lots of people have already given you wonderful words & good advice.
Please keep us up to date as to how you're doing.
I'm sending you much love & support. Wish I were close enough to come over & make you a cup of tea or take you out for a nice walk in nature or something.
(((((((((((((((((((((((you))))))))))))))))))))))
love, Kath
Posted by ClearSkies on September 10, 2007, at 8:29:32
In reply to Re: I'm glad you're my friend » ClearSkies, posted by Kath on September 1, 2007, at 22:35:03
This is a good thing, too. My step daughter has a part time job bar tending. Free booze! She's living with her friend and baby sits her children during the day. The car is not functioning. She did get a pre-paid phone the other day, and called her dad to tell him, and to ask about getting her belongings moved to her. (He told her to look up a mover in the phone book and tell him when it's all arranged, and he'll pay for it. She makes the arrangements, though. Nice dad.) We haven't heard back since then. I think she was expecting us to move everything into our garage again, but we're not prepared to do that.
So, plus ca change, really. But we're exhausted from the last month's dramatics. I'm really proud of my husband and how he kept his boundaries firm, in spite of wanting to give in. I don't think that he'll continue counseling on his own without his daughter's participation. With her car not working, she's said that it's not possible for her to go, even though DH said that he'd pick her up and drive her back for the appointments. I don't think she's willing to listen and talk yet, either.
But I think that in spite of it looking like we're back where we started, that something critical happened here. Step daughter really tried to get what she wanted out of us (= money, unconditionally), and that didn't happen. New lines were drawn in the sand. They went to counseling for the first time, ever! Parent spoke to each other about their daughter's wellbeing; also a first! So I see many positives that came out of this upsetting carousel ride. Onwards.
cs
Posted by Racer on September 10, 2007, at 15:01:52
In reply to We are out of the loop, and that's OK, posted by ClearSkies on September 10, 2007, at 8:29:32
That does sound pretty positive. Yippee for your husband's fortitude! It's got to be hard to say the N Word to his daughter, when he doesn't have much practice.
Personally, I absolutely loved the part about "sure, I'll pay for it -- you make the arrangements." There's something there that really strikes me as positive, although my tired brain (didn't sleep well last night, haven't napped yet) can't find words to express it...
I'm glad that the situation is looking better.
This is the end of the thread.
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