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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 9 to 33 of 37. Go back in thread:
Posted by Happyflower on March 24, 2007, at 14:15:07
In reply to Re: when is it abuse? » Happyflower, posted by gazo on March 23, 2007, at 21:05:52
> > yes, it is called emotional abuse and blackmail.
>
> i have no bruises.Maybe not physical bruises, but emotional one maybe.
> i always say the wrong things.
according to who?
> he says i provoke him
abusers ALWAYS blame someone else.
> i do whatever it takes to stop it from happening
Maybe the only thing you can do is leave, ususally this kind of behavior gets much worse, and turns physical.
> i have sold my soul and given my body to make it stop
Doing this should clue in that what he is doing is wrong.
> i give in to keep my family from knowing
Hiding this is allowing yourself to be issolated (which is what a lot of abusers want)
> if i could just be better, if i could be easier to live with maybe he would love me like i love him
>
Love shouldn't be this hard. To an abuser, you will never be good enough to them, and this is something that they will enforce into your head, so they can get away with the abuse.
Emotional abuse hurts and causes as many problems and scars as physical abuse. Abuse is abuse. If you have to hide from others what is happening to you, than it is probably abuse. I am sorry you are going through this. Please take care of yourself, sometimes this is the most important thing.
Posted by gazo on March 25, 2007, at 21:14:41
In reply to Re: when is it abuse?, posted by Happyflower on March 24, 2007, at 14:15:07
Posted by one woman cine on March 28, 2007, at 14:35:26
In reply to Re: when is it abuse? also for onewomancine » fayeroe, posted by gazo on March 23, 2007, at 20:57:23
I guess the question to you is - do you think you are being abused? Regardless of what anyone says? No one can decide for another what is abusive or not. No matter who tells you its OK that person "xyz" does what for whatever reason. You decide what's abuse. You decide what's OK for someone to say or do to you.
Battered women are caught in a cycle of being told they deserve it or a ton of other things as to why it's OK. The cycle does not stop until the woman leaves the batterer. The victimizer usually doesn't change - it's just a heartbreaking cycle with alot of debris.
I am sorry this is all going on for you. & I'm sorry things went awry with the therapy termination. I hope things turn around for you soon.
Posted by gazo on March 29, 2007, at 16:29:14
In reply to Re: when is it abuse? - gazo, posted by one woman cine on March 28, 2007, at 14:35:26
the whole situation is complicated and i just can't say too much online. sometimes i think it is abuse, sometimes i think it doesn't count because it's my fault. i feel very responsible in this. it's one of the reasons i went into therapy, to try to sort this out. i have no self confidence anymore and my self esteem is not so good either
my first T kept me alive and he didn't even know it. more than once i almost committed suicide. i couldn't tell him, i thought he would have me hospitalized. The termination went badly mostly because i am grief and guilt stricken. i adore him.
Posted by Kath on March 29, 2007, at 19:24:49
In reply to Re: when is it abuse? » Happyflower, posted by gazo on March 23, 2007, at 21:05:52
Dear Gazo,
You know, in my opinion it doesn't even matter if it's abuse or not.
It sounds like you do NOT like being treated like this. That's all that really matters, in the end.
It does NOT sound like OK behaviour to me at all.
Love should not hurt.
I guess we have to decide what we are OK with as to how people talk to us and treat us.
In the following statements, "we all" can replace "you". This is what I believe:
You deserve safety
You deserve to be spoken to with respect
You deserve to be treated with respect
You deserve to be accepted as less than perfect
Those are some things that I believe are true.
Nobody is perfect & alot of us aren't easy to live with. That doesn't mean it's OK for people to be mean to us, or insult us, or blame us, or hurt us.
I am sorry that you feel you have to hide the situation from your family. If you were to stop hiding it from your family, would the results be hurtful for you?
I'm glad you spoke about this here. In my opinion, the answer to the questions is 'yes, all those things are abusive'. But OWC made an interesting point. You're the one to decide. It doesn't matter if anyone else says, 'no, I don't think it's abusive'. If YOU think it is - that's enough to mean that for you, it IS.
I am sorry about your disappointment about your therapist. When we're fed a steady diet of meanness, hurtfulness, criticism, etc, it's pretty easy to get swept off our feet emotionally when someone finally is kind, accepting, caring & 'there for us'. PLEASE don't beat yourself up.
love, Kath
Posted by one woman cine on March 30, 2007, at 7:34:16
In reply to Re: when is it abuse? - gazo » one woman cine, posted by gazo on March 29, 2007, at 16:29:14
Abuse is never your fault. It's the abusers fault. No matter what.
Posted by one woman cine on March 30, 2007, at 7:35:33
In reply to Re: when is it abuse? » gazo, posted by Kath on March 29, 2007, at 19:24:49
Amen, I was getting there, but there quite yet. Well said though. I just prefer the scenic route sometimes.
>>>>>You know, in my opinion it doesn't even matter if it's abuse or not.It sounds like you do NOT like being treated like this. That's all that really matters, in the end.
It does NOT sound like OK behaviour to me at all.
Love should not hurt.
I guess we have to decide what we are OK with as to how people talk to us and treat us.
In the following statements, "we all" can replace "you". This is what I believe:
You deserve safety
You deserve to be spoken to with respect
You deserve to be treated with respect
You deserve to be accepted as less than perfect
Those are some things that I believe are true.
Nobody is perfect & alot of us aren't easy to live with. That doesn't mean it's OK for people to be mean to us, or insult us, or blame us, or hurt us.
Posted by gazo on March 31, 2007, at 12:53:12
In reply to Re: when is it abuse? » gazo, posted by Kath on March 29, 2007, at 19:24:49
i think what i struggle with the most is actually calling it abuse...like i don't deserve to be able to. it's not so easy from the inside. someone is telling you how good they are to you and how hard you make their life. you can't see out of it. it bites into my own issues of worth anyway. it took over a year of it for me to tell ANYONE what was happening in my home. what none of the women's worker people understood was that i didn't feel like i could call it abuse. it does not feel good. it has took away the last of what little self esteem i had.it has done a lot of things. but i have no bruises... is it just a bad situation? am i overreacting? is it me? so i keep it to myself. i say we have "problems." i say i am sorry for making him scream at me. i try harder to make it better. i can't seem to be good enough.
Posted by gazo on March 31, 2007, at 13:02:11
In reply to Re: when is it abuse? - gazo » gazo, posted by one woman cine on March 30, 2007, at 7:34:16
that is a big part of it for me. it's never black and white. if i am making his life hard, and i do, if i am upset or difficult...whose fault is it then? i have bipolarII, which means that without meds you still wouldn't guess i was bp, but you see me as difficult and maybe eccentric. as i posted to someone else here.. living with a person with bp isn't always a picnic. i try hard to not be difficult.
Posted by Kath on April 2, 2007, at 13:51:12
In reply to Re: when is it abuse? » Kath, posted by gazo on March 31, 2007, at 12:53:12
*****I personally tend to think it's abuse. There's one thing that you can say FOR SURE:
I FEEL ABUSED. Only YOU know how you feel & NOBODY has the right to try to tell you how you feel. Oh, people will try!! People do it with children........"No you don't hate Aunt BoBo hunny!!!" etc.********>someone is telling you how good they are to you and how hard you make their life.
********abusers often try to make it the victim's fault. Do you have to stay with this person? First of all, do you want to? Sounds like a resounding NO. Do you 'have to' - for example, alot of women are trapped into a situation due to finances.****
> you can't see out of it. it bites into my own issues of worth anyway. it took over a year of it for me to tell ANYONE what was happening in my home. what none of the women's worker people understood was that i didn't feel like i could call it abuse. it does not feel good. it has took away the last of what little self esteem i had.it has done a lot of things.
*********Remember "I feel" - it's a VERY powerful thing to say, even in your own mind. If you're with an abuser, probably the very LEAST you say, the better, because it'll be turned around & you'll end up feeling crazy. Maybe you can think of something that you DO feel OK saying, when you're talking about the situation. Like, for example: This behaviour is NOT acceptable to me. or I am NOT OK with this behaviour. or This feels like abuse to me. or This feels abusive to me. I don't know that I'd say it to HIM!!! You need to get some good support behind you & some help to get you feeling stronger before you'd do that probably.
Are you 'in touch with' why it's important to you to be able to label it as abuse? I'm saying that with a kind, loving smile!! I'm not trying to confront you! (((you)))*******
but i have no bruises... is it just a bad situation? am i overreacting? is it me? so i keep it to myself. i say we have "problems." i say i am sorry for making him scream at me. i try harder to make it better. i can't seem to be good enough.***********There are ways of talking....I hope you can word things so that YOU aren't 'owning' something that isn't yours.
For example. If you say "I'm sorry I made you scream at me." That's not cool!! How about:
"I'm sorry you're reacting by screaming at me." Or instead of "I'm sorry I made you mad at me." you could say "I'm sorry you're feeling mad at me." Just a couple of quick thoughts about that.Have you had very many appointments with the women's workers?? Please go to an abused women's centre ASAP & get as much help from them as possible. Please let them know exactly what you've written above, because to me it looks like CLASSIC abused-woman material.
Physical bruises are not necessarily part & parcel of abuse. If you're feeling like you've said above, I'd say you've very definitely abused. Sounds like you're fully in the thing of believing that it's YOUR fault. Of course you'd find it hard to label it abuse, 'cuz that would make it HIS fault!!! And he's using everything possible to make it YOUR fault. Sounds like he is being quite abusive & sounds as if you're getting beaten down lower & lower (albeit with no bruises!!).
I do hope you seek out help. Maybe it's not possible for you to leave. I don't know if women's centres try to get a woman to leave the situation in a case like yours. I suspect that they simply support you right in the place where you find yourself, physically, emotionally, spirituatlly.
Please keep being open.
luv, Kath
PS - please remove "I made you" from your vocabulary, OK? You didn't make him do anything!!!!!!!! :-)
Posted by Kath on April 2, 2007, at 13:53:16
In reply to Re: when is it abuse? - gazo » one woman cine, posted by gazo on March 31, 2007, at 13:02:11
Guess what?
There are ways & ways of saying things.
It would be so nice if HE could learn to say how he FEELS instead of yelling at you.
"I" messages are so much better then "you" messages.
"I am so frustrated when you do that..."
versus
"You make me so dam**d mad when you..."
K
Posted by gazo on April 3, 2007, at 23:11:36
In reply to Re: when is it abuse? - gazo » gazo, posted by Kath on April 2, 2007, at 13:53:16
thank you kath.. you obviously put a lot of time into what you said. Why is it important to be able to label it as abuse or not? well, that's hard to answer.. it has something to do with it being a way to establish an anchor point because from the inside of this it is very confusing.. and some of it comes from the deeper issues i have surrounding self worth, etc.
things are a mess. there are some very big obstacles to leaving completely... but the biggest is me.
i have reached a point at which i just don't see real solutions. i can't leave and i can't stay. The solution in between is irreversible. i spend a lot of time thinking about that. i am not in immediate danger. i just spend a lot of time balancing out what to do.
i can't just go. i can't just stay.
Posted by Kath on April 4, 2007, at 8:03:15
In reply to Re: when is it abuse? - gazo » Kath, posted by gazo on April 3, 2007, at 23:11:36
Gazo, can you get any counselling around the whole issue? From the women's group maybe?
I send you warm, caring thoughts.
luv, Kath
Posted by Kath on April 4, 2007, at 8:05:54
In reply to Re: when is it abuse? - gazo » gazo, posted by Kath on April 4, 2007, at 8:03:15
Have you considered setting your settings to receive Babblemail?
That way, people can send you a private email 'through' PsychoBabble without knowing your email address.
K
Posted by gazo on April 4, 2007, at 11:35:11
In reply to Re: when is it abuse? - gazo » Kath, posted by Kath on April 4, 2007, at 8:05:54
i'd rather not. i just got burned elsewhere because a behind-the-scenes conversation got misconstrued. i'd rather have my words and others in the open.
i am in therapy now, just started. i have to sort my head out around this. The women's groups and centers were useless. i honestly don't know what they are supposed to be doing if they can't help with stuff like this.
Posted by BiPolarLen on April 4, 2007, at 14:33:07
In reply to Re: when is it abuse?, posted by Happyflower on March 24, 2007, at 14:15:07
In my opinion when you have to go behind someones back to seek. That itself is abuse period, now there is all kinds of emotonal abuse. Believe I know firsthand, for I was and still will until I learn how to deal my anger. However, the cost of finding this all out was expensive(emotional)
> > > yes, it is called emotional abuse and blackmail.
> >
> > i have no bruises.
>
> Maybe not physical bruises, but emotional one maybe.
>
> > i always say the wrong things.
>
> according to who?
>
> > he says i provoke him
>
> abusers ALWAYS blame someone else.
>
> > i do whatever it takes to stop it from happening
>
> Maybe the only thing you can do is leave, ususally this kind of behavior gets much worse, and turns physical.
>
> > i have sold my soul and given my body to make it stop
>
> Doing this should clue in that what he is doing is wrong.
>
> > i give in to keep my family from knowing
>
> Hiding this is allowing yourself to be issolated (which is what a lot of abusers want)
>
> > if i could just be better, if i could be easier to live with maybe he would love me like i love him
> >
> Love shouldn't be this hard. To an abuser, you will never be good enough to them, and this is something that they will enforce into your head, so they can get away with the abuse.
> Emotional abuse hurts and causes as many problems and scars as physical abuse. Abuse is abuse. If you have to hide from others what is happening to you, than it is probably abuse. I am sorry you are going through this. Please take care of yourself, sometimes this is the most important thing.
Posted by Kath on April 4, 2007, at 20:50:42
In reply to Re: when is it abuse? - gazo » Kath, posted by gazo on April 4, 2007, at 11:35:11
> i'd rather not. i just got burned elsewhere because a behind-the-scenes conversation got misconstrued. i'd rather have my words and others in the open.
*********sorry to hear that!!! Good for you, taking care of yourself in your decision*****>
> i am in therapy now, just started. i have to sort my head out around this. The women's groups and centers were useless. i honestly don't know what they are supposed to be doing if they can't help with stuff like this.******yeah - does make you wonder if they can't help! I'm so glad to hear you're in therapy now. I hope it helps you. I wish you the very best of luck in taking good care of yourself.
warm hugs, Kath********
Posted by gazo on April 19, 2007, at 13:59:06
In reply to Re: when is it abuse? - gazo, posted by Kath on April 4, 2007, at 20:50:42
well..i'm wondering about that. We haven't really gotten to it yet. we did talk about it briefly in one session because i was so obviously struggling. The T i am seeing worries about pushing me too hard too fast... and with good reason. i have frequently been suicidal.
i have a no win situation. Can't leave Can't stay.
Posted by Kath on April 19, 2007, at 19:57:33
In reply to Re: when is it abuse? - gazo » Kath, posted by gazo on April 19, 2007, at 13:59:06
I wish you all the best. I am glad that you do have a therapist.
luv, Kath
Posted by Lynk on June 2, 2007, at 0:35:54
In reply to Re: when is it abuse? - gazo » Kath, posted by gazo on April 19, 2007, at 13:59:06
Posted by hoolahoop on September 2, 2007, at 9:40:31
In reply to Re: when is it abuse? - gazo (nm), posted by Lynk on June 2, 2007, at 0:35:54
oh my god i really feel for you .i am in the same situation with my bf. i think it is emotional abuse. but i will write my own story in another thread.
i hope you can sort things out xx
Posted by shangrila7 on April 5, 2008, at 17:30:16
In reply to when is it abuse?, posted by gazo on March 21, 2007, at 0:39:48
I have found myself in a situation where I don't have bruises but I am completely overwhelmed. I find myself being afraid of what my husband is going to do when he gets mad. I find myself walking on eggshells 3-4 days a week because he woke up in a bad mood or I was late or the laundry wasn't done. We have been together for 8 years and married for 4 but never before when we argued did I ever think he would hurt me or that I was putting myself at risk. We have a 2 1/2 year old daughter and what kills me the most is she sees his outbursts. She apologizes to me for daddy making me cry or throwing things at me.
He told me about 4 weeks ago now that he didn't like me anymore, I wasn't fun and he didn't want to spend time with me. He was grumpy because we didn't have sex the night before.
Things were different after that, as I don't know what to say to that. I have said I will leave but he says I can't take my daughter and he knows I wont go without her.
A week later we were having what I thought was a good morning when he got upset and told me he was over me and our relationship and told me to f*** off. He was rude the rest of the day and when I had to go drop my car off for service he told my daughter I was going to a birthday party without her so she would want to come. I was having to take a cab home because he wasn't going to come pick me up anyway, so taking her just made it more difficult.
Now things will go ok for a few days but then something doesn't go his way or he wakes up in a mood and he tells me he hates me and he is going to go get a prostitute (We live in Nevada). Nothing that makes me feel good.
Then last night his cousin was over and picked a fight with me about why my husband has to consult me before he goes out drinking and I told the cousin he better be careful or he would be walking home and my husband pipes in and says he would make me walk before he makes his cousin walk. Just little hurtful things.
Just this past week he woke up mad because I put an extra blanket on our daughter and it was one we used in the living room. I thought he was going to come to bed because he made a big deal about our daughter sleeping in her own bed (he has slept on the couch almost all of this year out of his choice so I let my daughter sleep with me) He ended up not coming to bed and was cold so when he woke up the next morning he was furious because "I didn't love him enough to put a blanket on him, I gave the baby the good heater and the extra blanket. He threw the remote control at me-it hit the wall and broke into pieces (I got out of the way-I kind of knew he would throw something)
Then I got in the shower before he could lock me out of the bathroom so I couldn't get ready for work. He turned the washer on hot so I would run out of water and reached into my shower and turned my water cold. We argued then he took off and said he wasn't coming back that night...but he did. So I had my sister-in-law take our daughter that night and we went to dinner so we could talk and he says he doesn't want me to leave and he loves me, just to act right. (whatever that means). I told him he needs to "act right" too but he just laughs about the things he does. I feel like if I leave I am giving up but I don't know what to do. He says its me and that I need counseling because I am depressed. He comes home and goes straight to sleep so he doesn't have to deal with me. He told our daughter that I was a good mommy but a bad wife.
Am I taking all of this too personally or would I be right to leave, even if just for a trial couple months? (Sorry this is so long). Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I am even a little nervous about posting this but if it will help I guess its worth it.
Thanks
> if you don't have bruises, is it abuse?
>
> if you are now afraid?
>
> if you walk on eggshells?
>
> if he humiliates you?
>
> if he says you are biggot (when you are not)?
>
> if he sends emails/calls people horrible lies about you?
>
> if he does good things for you then holds against you?
>
> if he threatens to leave if you want to try to help yourself?
Posted by BiPolarLen on April 7, 2008, at 18:28:56
In reply to Re: when is it abuse?, posted by shangrila7 on April 5, 2008, at 17:30:16
Dear shangrila7:
Just my opinion but you and your daughter are being abuse by this man. If you want to call him a man to me he more of an assh$$^.
Either he moves out or you do, I am sure that there are plenty of sources in Nevada that you can reach out to I would start with the courts!
Good Luck
Len
> I have found myself in a situation where I don't have bruises but I am completely overwhelmed. I find myself being afraid of what my husband is going to do when he gets mad. I find myself walking on eggshells 3-4 days a week because he woke up in a bad mood or I was late or the laundry wasn't done. We have been together for 8 years and married for 4 but never before when we argued did I ever think he would hurt me or that I was putting myself at risk. We have a 2 1/2 year old daughter and what kills me the most is she sees his outbursts. She apologizes to me for daddy making me cry or throwing things at me.
> He told me about 4 weeks ago now that he didn't like me anymore, I wasn't fun and he didn't want to spend time with me. He was grumpy because we didn't have sex the night before.
> Things were different after that, as I don't know what to say to that. I have said I will leave but he says I can't take my daughter and he knows I wont go without her.
> A week later we were having what I thought was a good morning when he got upset and told me he was over me and our relationship and told me to f*** off. He was rude the rest of the day and when I had to go drop my car off for service he told my daughter I was going to a birthday party without her so she would want to come. I was having to take a cab home because he wasn't going to come pick me up anyway, so taking her just made it more difficult.
> Now things will go ok for a few days but then something doesn't go his way or he wakes up in a mood and he tells me he hates me and he is going to go get a prostitute (We live in Nevada). Nothing that makes me feel good.
> Then last night his cousin was over and picked a fight with me about why my husband has to consult me before he goes out drinking and I told the cousin he better be careful or he would be walking home and my husband pipes in and says he would make me walk before he makes his cousin walk. Just little hurtful things.
> Just this past week he woke up mad because I put an extra blanket on our daughter and it was one we used in the living room. I thought he was going to come to bed because he made a big deal about our daughter sleeping in her own bed (he has slept on the couch almost all of this year out of his choice so I let my daughter sleep with me) He ended up not coming to bed and was cold so when he woke up the next morning he was furious because "I didn't love him enough to put a blanket on him, I gave the baby the good heater and the extra blanket. He threw the remote control at me-it hit the wall and broke into pieces (I got out of the way-I kind of knew he would throw something)
> Then I got in the shower before he could lock me out of the bathroom so I couldn't get ready for work. He turned the washer on hot so I would run out of water and reached into my shower and turned my water cold. We argued then he took off and said he wasn't coming back that night...but he did. So I had my sister-in-law take our daughter that night and we went to dinner so we could talk and he says he doesn't want me to leave and he loves me, just to act right. (whatever that means). I told him he needs to "act right" too but he just laughs about the things he does. I feel like if I leave I am giving up but I don't know what to do. He says its me and that I need counseling because I am depressed. He comes home and goes straight to sleep so he doesn't have to deal with me. He told our daughter that I was a good mommy but a bad wife.
> Am I taking all of this too personally or would I be right to leave, even if just for a trial couple months? (Sorry this is so long). Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I am even a little nervous about posting this but if it will help I guess its worth it.
> Thanks
>
>
>
>
>
> > if you don't have bruises, is it abuse?
> >
> > if you are now afraid?
> >
> > if you walk on eggshells?
> >
> > if he humiliates you?
> >
> > if he says you are biggot (when you are not)?
> >
> > if he sends emails/calls people horrible lies about you?
> >
> > if he does good things for you then holds against you?
> >
> > if he threatens to leave if you want to try to help yourself?
>
>
Posted by tunguska on April 12, 2008, at 4:31:14
In reply to Re: when is it abuse?, posted by shangrila7 on April 5, 2008, at 17:30:16
Before you decide find a family counselor, and if he won't go with you go for yourself. 8 years becomes 21 and the 2 year old becomes a teenager. If you're putting up with treatment you wouldn't take off anyone else something has to change. I say this because one morning I realized I was looking forward to a job I don't even like, one that takes me away from my children, because it keppt me from having to go home to get screamed at. Even after I've set the appointments, he still thinks he never said or did, or does any of the things he does. I say see the counselor because it helps to make the deciisions about how you'll be treated in life when you've got the emotions out. I just know its wrong to allow yourself to be treated with disrespect.
Posted by Kath on April 12, 2008, at 21:35:05
In reply to Re: when is it abuse?, posted by shangrila7 on April 5, 2008, at 17:30:16
Big DITTO to what BiPolarLen said hunnee.
PLEASE get help. Do you have a women's shelter near you. Not for you to go there, but for you to have someone IRL to HEAR you.
If you have a printer & can print out your post, please do so & put it safely in your purse & do NOT tell him it's there.
He is being scandalously abusive. He fits "abusive partner" to a TEE.
That he would say to a child "she's a good mommy but a bad wife" is SO sick I can't imagine it.
Kids should NOT be talke to about adult stuff.
If not for your own sake, I'd say do NOT stay with him for the sake of your daughter.
Would you want her to live with someone like that & be treated like that when she grows up? I bet not. If so, please know (said very kindly) that you are teaching her that this is the way women get treated & that it's OKAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY.
Please reach out for help IRL.
I actually wonder whether or not you are physically safe with this person (I certainly don't think he deserves the word "man" in the same sentence as him!)
You are CERTAINLY not emotionally safe with him.YES - this is DEFINITELY abuse hun.
You do NOT deserve to be treated like this. Nobody does. Children deserve to never see or hear things like this.
He is trying to make you think that you are at fault. He is very ill, in my opinion.
Please keep us posted, okay?
I care about you. I don't even know you & I care about you probably more than he could ever dream about truly caring about you. He is ill.
Please let us know how you are.
love, Kath ((((((((((((((((you)))))))))))))))))
PS - PLEASE DO NOT tell him you posted on a group online. Please do NOT tell him you are thinking about leaving or getting help. He is used to having control over you & when that pattern is in danger of being broken, he might react VERY strongly. Please DO take this seriously. You have to keep yourself & your daughter safe.
If he will throw a remote at you (or in your direction) he will not hesitate to be violent with you.Please resist the temptation to say, "Well I'm getting help. I have friends online who say..." or anything like that.
Pl check back in. I'm worried about you.
Kath
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