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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Happyflower on March 22, 2007, at 19:19:50
In reply to when is it abuse?, posted by gazo on March 21, 2007, at 0:39:48
yes, it is called emotional abuse and blackmail.
Posted by gazo on March 23, 2007, at 20:57:23
In reply to Re: when is it abuse? » one woman cine, posted by fayeroe on March 21, 2007, at 17:08:06
> > are these rhetorical questions?
> >
> > I think perhaps the questions we sometimes ask ourselves - we already know the answers to.
>
>
> if this is happening to you, i'm very sorry. i agree with owc about the questions.........xoxoxo aptOWC.. your message doesn't open for me.. i am sorry. i don't really know if they are rhetorical.. in some ways yes.. but every day i am faced with reasons why these things are not abuse. i am told by the actions of people around me. i am told by the things they say about other people. i dare not tell them what happens in my home. i don't look abused.
fayeroe.. thank you for caring. it is has been my existence for a long time now.
Posted by gazo on March 23, 2007, at 21:05:52
In reply to Re: when is it abuse?, posted by Happyflower on March 22, 2007, at 19:19:50
> yes, it is called emotional abuse and blackmail.
i have no bruises.
i always say the wrong things.
he says i provoke him
i do whatever it takes to stop it from happening
i have sold my soul and given my body to make it stop
i give in to keep my family from knowing
if i could just be better, if i could be easier to live with maybe he would love me like i love him
Posted by fayeroe on March 23, 2007, at 21:14:42
In reply to Re: when is it abuse? » Happyflower, posted by gazo on March 23, 2007, at 21:05:52
> > yes, it is called emotional abuse and blackmail.
>
> i have no bruises.
> i always say the wrong things.
> he says i provoke him
> i do whatever it takes to stop it from happening
> i have sold my soul and given my body to make it stop
> i give in to keep my family from knowing
> if i could just be better, if i could be easier to live with maybe he would love me like i love him
>
i tried that "perfect woman" route for a year one time.........made it ten months.......no one can make someone love us or quit beating us.......they don't change. mine didn't. i had to leave and take the children......i'm so sorry that you're in this situation. please keep me posted.........xoxoxo pat
Posted by gazo on March 23, 2007, at 21:29:55
In reply to Re: when is it abuse?, posted by fayeroe on March 23, 2007, at 21:14:42
i am far from perfect for sure. he works so hard and i am not the easiest person to live with. this year is the first time i told anyone what was happening at home. i finally got a T and he is leaving me. i have to sneak around to see a T. the people i have told tell me me they don't know how i live this way but it seems like everyone is afraid to say the word "abuse." that is why i asked those questions.
thank you for caring
Posted by Happyflower on March 24, 2007, at 14:15:07
In reply to Re: when is it abuse? » Happyflower, posted by gazo on March 23, 2007, at 21:05:52
> > yes, it is called emotional abuse and blackmail.
>
> i have no bruises.Maybe not physical bruises, but emotional one maybe.
> i always say the wrong things.
according to who?
> he says i provoke him
abusers ALWAYS blame someone else.
> i do whatever it takes to stop it from happening
Maybe the only thing you can do is leave, ususally this kind of behavior gets much worse, and turns physical.
> i have sold my soul and given my body to make it stop
Doing this should clue in that what he is doing is wrong.
> i give in to keep my family from knowing
Hiding this is allowing yourself to be issolated (which is what a lot of abusers want)
> if i could just be better, if i could be easier to live with maybe he would love me like i love him
>
Love shouldn't be this hard. To an abuser, you will never be good enough to them, and this is something that they will enforce into your head, so they can get away with the abuse.
Emotional abuse hurts and causes as many problems and scars as physical abuse. Abuse is abuse. If you have to hide from others what is happening to you, than it is probably abuse. I am sorry you are going through this. Please take care of yourself, sometimes this is the most important thing.
Posted by gazo on March 25, 2007, at 21:14:41
In reply to Re: when is it abuse?, posted by Happyflower on March 24, 2007, at 14:15:07
Posted by one woman cine on March 28, 2007, at 14:35:26
In reply to Re: when is it abuse? also for onewomancine » fayeroe, posted by gazo on March 23, 2007, at 20:57:23
I guess the question to you is - do you think you are being abused? Regardless of what anyone says? No one can decide for another what is abusive or not. No matter who tells you its OK that person "xyz" does what for whatever reason. You decide what's abuse. You decide what's OK for someone to say or do to you.
Battered women are caught in a cycle of being told they deserve it or a ton of other things as to why it's OK. The cycle does not stop until the woman leaves the batterer. The victimizer usually doesn't change - it's just a heartbreaking cycle with alot of debris.
I am sorry this is all going on for you. & I'm sorry things went awry with the therapy termination. I hope things turn around for you soon.
Posted by gazo on March 29, 2007, at 16:29:14
In reply to Re: when is it abuse? - gazo, posted by one woman cine on March 28, 2007, at 14:35:26
the whole situation is complicated and i just can't say too much online. sometimes i think it is abuse, sometimes i think it doesn't count because it's my fault. i feel very responsible in this. it's one of the reasons i went into therapy, to try to sort this out. i have no self confidence anymore and my self esteem is not so good either
my first T kept me alive and he didn't even know it. more than once i almost committed suicide. i couldn't tell him, i thought he would have me hospitalized. The termination went badly mostly because i am grief and guilt stricken. i adore him.
Posted by Kath on March 29, 2007, at 19:24:49
In reply to Re: when is it abuse? » Happyflower, posted by gazo on March 23, 2007, at 21:05:52
Dear Gazo,
You know, in my opinion it doesn't even matter if it's abuse or not.
It sounds like you do NOT like being treated like this. That's all that really matters, in the end.
It does NOT sound like OK behaviour to me at all.
Love should not hurt.
I guess we have to decide what we are OK with as to how people talk to us and treat us.
In the following statements, "we all" can replace "you". This is what I believe:
You deserve safety
You deserve to be spoken to with respect
You deserve to be treated with respect
You deserve to be accepted as less than perfect
Those are some things that I believe are true.
Nobody is perfect & alot of us aren't easy to live with. That doesn't mean it's OK for people to be mean to us, or insult us, or blame us, or hurt us.
I am sorry that you feel you have to hide the situation from your family. If you were to stop hiding it from your family, would the results be hurtful for you?
I'm glad you spoke about this here. In my opinion, the answer to the questions is 'yes, all those things are abusive'. But OWC made an interesting point. You're the one to decide. It doesn't matter if anyone else says, 'no, I don't think it's abusive'. If YOU think it is - that's enough to mean that for you, it IS.
I am sorry about your disappointment about your therapist. When we're fed a steady diet of meanness, hurtfulness, criticism, etc, it's pretty easy to get swept off our feet emotionally when someone finally is kind, accepting, caring & 'there for us'. PLEASE don't beat yourself up.
love, Kath
Posted by one woman cine on March 30, 2007, at 7:34:16
In reply to Re: when is it abuse? - gazo » one woman cine, posted by gazo on March 29, 2007, at 16:29:14
Abuse is never your fault. It's the abusers fault. No matter what.
Posted by one woman cine on March 30, 2007, at 7:35:33
In reply to Re: when is it abuse? » gazo, posted by Kath on March 29, 2007, at 19:24:49
Amen, I was getting there, but there quite yet. Well said though. I just prefer the scenic route sometimes.
>>>>>You know, in my opinion it doesn't even matter if it's abuse or not.It sounds like you do NOT like being treated like this. That's all that really matters, in the end.
It does NOT sound like OK behaviour to me at all.
Love should not hurt.
I guess we have to decide what we are OK with as to how people talk to us and treat us.
In the following statements, "we all" can replace "you". This is what I believe:
You deserve safety
You deserve to be spoken to with respect
You deserve to be treated with respect
You deserve to be accepted as less than perfect
Those are some things that I believe are true.
Nobody is perfect & alot of us aren't easy to live with. That doesn't mean it's OK for people to be mean to us, or insult us, or blame us, or hurt us.
Posted by gazo on March 31, 2007, at 12:53:12
In reply to Re: when is it abuse? » gazo, posted by Kath on March 29, 2007, at 19:24:49
i think what i struggle with the most is actually calling it abuse...like i don't deserve to be able to. it's not so easy from the inside. someone is telling you how good they are to you and how hard you make their life. you can't see out of it. it bites into my own issues of worth anyway. it took over a year of it for me to tell ANYONE what was happening in my home. what none of the women's worker people understood was that i didn't feel like i could call it abuse. it does not feel good. it has took away the last of what little self esteem i had.it has done a lot of things. but i have no bruises... is it just a bad situation? am i overreacting? is it me? so i keep it to myself. i say we have "problems." i say i am sorry for making him scream at me. i try harder to make it better. i can't seem to be good enough.
Posted by gazo on March 31, 2007, at 13:02:11
In reply to Re: when is it abuse? - gazo » gazo, posted by one woman cine on March 30, 2007, at 7:34:16
that is a big part of it for me. it's never black and white. if i am making his life hard, and i do, if i am upset or difficult...whose fault is it then? i have bipolarII, which means that without meds you still wouldn't guess i was bp, but you see me as difficult and maybe eccentric. as i posted to someone else here.. living with a person with bp isn't always a picnic. i try hard to not be difficult.
Posted by Kath on April 2, 2007, at 13:51:12
In reply to Re: when is it abuse? » Kath, posted by gazo on March 31, 2007, at 12:53:12
*****I personally tend to think it's abuse. There's one thing that you can say FOR SURE:
I FEEL ABUSED. Only YOU know how you feel & NOBODY has the right to try to tell you how you feel. Oh, people will try!! People do it with children........"No you don't hate Aunt BoBo hunny!!!" etc.********>someone is telling you how good they are to you and how hard you make their life.
********abusers often try to make it the victim's fault. Do you have to stay with this person? First of all, do you want to? Sounds like a resounding NO. Do you 'have to' - for example, alot of women are trapped into a situation due to finances.****
> you can't see out of it. it bites into my own issues of worth anyway. it took over a year of it for me to tell ANYONE what was happening in my home. what none of the women's worker people understood was that i didn't feel like i could call it abuse. it does not feel good. it has took away the last of what little self esteem i had.it has done a lot of things.
*********Remember "I feel" - it's a VERY powerful thing to say, even in your own mind. If you're with an abuser, probably the very LEAST you say, the better, because it'll be turned around & you'll end up feeling crazy. Maybe you can think of something that you DO feel OK saying, when you're talking about the situation. Like, for example: This behaviour is NOT acceptable to me. or I am NOT OK with this behaviour. or This feels like abuse to me. or This feels abusive to me. I don't know that I'd say it to HIM!!! You need to get some good support behind you & some help to get you feeling stronger before you'd do that probably.
Are you 'in touch with' why it's important to you to be able to label it as abuse? I'm saying that with a kind, loving smile!! I'm not trying to confront you! (((you)))*******
but i have no bruises... is it just a bad situation? am i overreacting? is it me? so i keep it to myself. i say we have "problems." i say i am sorry for making him scream at me. i try harder to make it better. i can't seem to be good enough.***********There are ways of talking....I hope you can word things so that YOU aren't 'owning' something that isn't yours.
For example. If you say "I'm sorry I made you scream at me." That's not cool!! How about:
"I'm sorry you're reacting by screaming at me." Or instead of "I'm sorry I made you mad at me." you could say "I'm sorry you're feeling mad at me." Just a couple of quick thoughts about that.Have you had very many appointments with the women's workers?? Please go to an abused women's centre ASAP & get as much help from them as possible. Please let them know exactly what you've written above, because to me it looks like CLASSIC abused-woman material.
Physical bruises are not necessarily part & parcel of abuse. If you're feeling like you've said above, I'd say you've very definitely abused. Sounds like you're fully in the thing of believing that it's YOUR fault. Of course you'd find it hard to label it abuse, 'cuz that would make it HIS fault!!! And he's using everything possible to make it YOUR fault. Sounds like he is being quite abusive & sounds as if you're getting beaten down lower & lower (albeit with no bruises!!).
I do hope you seek out help. Maybe it's not possible for you to leave. I don't know if women's centres try to get a woman to leave the situation in a case like yours. I suspect that they simply support you right in the place where you find yourself, physically, emotionally, spirituatlly.
Please keep being open.
luv, Kath
PS - please remove "I made you" from your vocabulary, OK? You didn't make him do anything!!!!!!!! :-)
Posted by Kath on April 2, 2007, at 13:53:16
In reply to Re: when is it abuse? - gazo » one woman cine, posted by gazo on March 31, 2007, at 13:02:11
Guess what?
There are ways & ways of saying things.
It would be so nice if HE could learn to say how he FEELS instead of yelling at you.
"I" messages are so much better then "you" messages.
"I am so frustrated when you do that..."
versus
"You make me so dam**d mad when you..."
K
Posted by gazo on April 3, 2007, at 23:11:36
In reply to Re: when is it abuse? - gazo » gazo, posted by Kath on April 2, 2007, at 13:53:16
thank you kath.. you obviously put a lot of time into what you said. Why is it important to be able to label it as abuse or not? well, that's hard to answer.. it has something to do with it being a way to establish an anchor point because from the inside of this it is very confusing.. and some of it comes from the deeper issues i have surrounding self worth, etc.
things are a mess. there are some very big obstacles to leaving completely... but the biggest is me.
i have reached a point at which i just don't see real solutions. i can't leave and i can't stay. The solution in between is irreversible. i spend a lot of time thinking about that. i am not in immediate danger. i just spend a lot of time balancing out what to do.
i can't just go. i can't just stay.
Posted by Kath on April 4, 2007, at 8:03:15
In reply to Re: when is it abuse? - gazo » Kath, posted by gazo on April 3, 2007, at 23:11:36
Gazo, can you get any counselling around the whole issue? From the women's group maybe?
I send you warm, caring thoughts.
luv, Kath
Posted by Kath on April 4, 2007, at 8:05:54
In reply to Re: when is it abuse? - gazo » gazo, posted by Kath on April 4, 2007, at 8:03:15
Have you considered setting your settings to receive Babblemail?
That way, people can send you a private email 'through' PsychoBabble without knowing your email address.
K
Posted by gazo on April 4, 2007, at 11:35:11
In reply to Re: when is it abuse? - gazo » Kath, posted by Kath on April 4, 2007, at 8:05:54
i'd rather not. i just got burned elsewhere because a behind-the-scenes conversation got misconstrued. i'd rather have my words and others in the open.
i am in therapy now, just started. i have to sort my head out around this. The women's groups and centers were useless. i honestly don't know what they are supposed to be doing if they can't help with stuff like this.
Posted by BiPolarLen on April 4, 2007, at 14:33:07
In reply to Re: when is it abuse?, posted by Happyflower on March 24, 2007, at 14:15:07
In my opinion when you have to go behind someones back to seek. That itself is abuse period, now there is all kinds of emotonal abuse. Believe I know firsthand, for I was and still will until I learn how to deal my anger. However, the cost of finding this all out was expensive(emotional)
> > > yes, it is called emotional abuse and blackmail.
> >
> > i have no bruises.
>
> Maybe not physical bruises, but emotional one maybe.
>
> > i always say the wrong things.
>
> according to who?
>
> > he says i provoke him
>
> abusers ALWAYS blame someone else.
>
> > i do whatever it takes to stop it from happening
>
> Maybe the only thing you can do is leave, ususally this kind of behavior gets much worse, and turns physical.
>
> > i have sold my soul and given my body to make it stop
>
> Doing this should clue in that what he is doing is wrong.
>
> > i give in to keep my family from knowing
>
> Hiding this is allowing yourself to be issolated (which is what a lot of abusers want)
>
> > if i could just be better, if i could be easier to live with maybe he would love me like i love him
> >
> Love shouldn't be this hard. To an abuser, you will never be good enough to them, and this is something that they will enforce into your head, so they can get away with the abuse.
> Emotional abuse hurts and causes as many problems and scars as physical abuse. Abuse is abuse. If you have to hide from others what is happening to you, than it is probably abuse. I am sorry you are going through this. Please take care of yourself, sometimes this is the most important thing.
Posted by Kath on April 4, 2007, at 20:50:42
In reply to Re: when is it abuse? - gazo » Kath, posted by gazo on April 4, 2007, at 11:35:11
> i'd rather not. i just got burned elsewhere because a behind-the-scenes conversation got misconstrued. i'd rather have my words and others in the open.
*********sorry to hear that!!! Good for you, taking care of yourself in your decision*****>
> i am in therapy now, just started. i have to sort my head out around this. The women's groups and centers were useless. i honestly don't know what they are supposed to be doing if they can't help with stuff like this.******yeah - does make you wonder if they can't help! I'm so glad to hear you're in therapy now. I hope it helps you. I wish you the very best of luck in taking good care of yourself.
warm hugs, Kath********
Posted by gazo on April 19, 2007, at 13:59:06
In reply to Re: when is it abuse? - gazo, posted by Kath on April 4, 2007, at 20:50:42
well..i'm wondering about that. We haven't really gotten to it yet. we did talk about it briefly in one session because i was so obviously struggling. The T i am seeing worries about pushing me too hard too fast... and with good reason. i have frequently been suicidal.
i have a no win situation. Can't leave Can't stay.
Posted by Kath on April 19, 2007, at 19:57:33
In reply to Re: when is it abuse? - gazo » Kath, posted by gazo on April 19, 2007, at 13:59:06
I wish you all the best. I am glad that you do have a therapist.
luv, Kath
Posted by Lynk on June 2, 2007, at 0:35:54
In reply to Re: when is it abuse? - gazo » Kath, posted by gazo on April 19, 2007, at 13:59:06
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