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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 30. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Estella on September 1, 2006, at 13:17:44
i suppose it isn't customary to say so, but i think it is true. men can be beautiful creatures. i had this conversation the other night. it involved my saying how i had steadily gained weight since my arrival in the country. and some guy said 'but surely you were underweight when you arrived and you are much healthier now'. and i was thinking 'yeah right'. but then others tagged on. and... listen to them. just listen to them. they weren't just 'saying the right thing'. and i figure... i've been worrying about my weight. as women tend to. only it isn't about weight it is about shape. that is really what it is about. our stomachs are meant to be slightly squishy and our hips are meant to be wide. we are meant to have breasts. curvy. some (most?) women are shaped like that. it is a womenly shape. and most women spend their lives trying to diet into the shape of adolescent males beacuase that is the shape we are told we are *meant* to be (by who i wonder? the gay males of the fashion industry who actually *prefer* a masculine shape????) but somehow or other we take our cue from there.
i have been beating myself up for having gained weight. yeah i am slightly squishy. doesn't feel *slightly* to me. it feels like a lot. i was starting to worry about obesity.
but these guys were serious. and i realise... somehow i managed to realise... that objectively they have more to fear from obesity than me. and what is it with these restrictions and judgements that women put on themselves???
they *meant* it. hard to believe, yes. but i have no reason to doubt them. they can be brutally honest and there is no reason why they wouldn't have been anything other than brutally honest with me. they don't see me as overweight. they thought i was underweight upon arrival. what do women do to themselves? men can be beautiful beautiful creatures. women worry... and worry... and don't believe... and judge one another... and men are just... wonderful. and accepting. how beautiful is that?
sometimes... i do just love guys. i do. guys can be very beautiful creatures indeed.
Posted by KayLen on September 1, 2006, at 17:56:27
In reply to men can be beautiful creatures, posted by Estella on September 1, 2006, at 13:17:44
Hello there,
Well...yeah...
A rooster has lots of gaudy plumage...but the hen shes quite plain.
Look at the lion then look at the lioness.
check out a male peacock...then see his mate.
I tend to be attracted to the male spieces.
..I know {I think what your saying}..just kinda funnin with ya ....men are beutiful...but I feel once you know a person and how they are inside no matter what gender they are they tend to look on the outside as they are on the inside to me. I don't know if that is a me thing or a universal thing....
Peace
Kaylen
Posted by Estella on September 2, 2006, at 0:46:04
In reply to Re: men can be beautiful creatures » Estella, posted by KayLen on September 1, 2006, at 17:56:27
Hellos :-)
Yeah people are funny creatures indeed. Throughout the animal kindgom the males tend to be prettier than the females. The situation is kinda reversed with people (women tend to spend a great deal of money on their make-up and colourful clothes and jewellery and hair and nails and so forth). Kinda strange. Also... People are sexually abhorrent, did you know that? We are very strange. We don't come on heat we can mate all the time and we mate face to face. I have no idea why we are such funny primates :-) But it makes me laugh sometimes tee hee.
Yeah, I agree with you. I just think that women tend (talking in broad general tendencies here) women tend to have more of a critical and comparing eye. In the sense of weight and looks and so on and so forth. Guys (still talking in broad general tendencies) tend to be more easy going. I just mean that I've had a few conversations about weight (in particular). And women tend to be fairly sensitive about it and to think they are fat... And guys kinda scratch their heads and don't see what all the fuss is about.
Though there are exceptions of course. Cultural differences too. But I just think it is kinda nice that guys (some of them anyways) really don't care. And hardly notice.
:-)
Thats kinda nice indeed. I guess it is mostly because I've been feeling really upset about my weight. But that being said I can tell when people are 'humouring'. They weren't. And I kinda realised... Why should I care? I evaluate myself more harshly than they do. I need to lighten up.
Lol.
Though this is hopelessly confused... Because men (I'm pretty sure) drive the model industry etc etc so I guess some guys just do like the look of starving women. Or... adolescent males / females. Or something.
I don't know what I'm saying.
I have to go get some fried chicken now.
:-)
Posted by wildcardII on September 2, 2006, at 6:43:15
In reply to men can be beautiful creatures, posted by Estella on September 1, 2006, at 13:17:44
i've heard my entire life that i'm an hour glass or built like a brick sh*t house (??) and skinny is supposed to be in...not here ;-) i've seen some of the most ugly people that had OUTER beauty and the most beautiful coming from their INNER soul, if i'm making sense. i recall this best friend of a guy i was dating and boy she was drop dead gorgeous until she opened her mouth...honestly. not a very nice person and it took away from the outer part...
Posted by Estella on September 2, 2006, at 11:42:15
In reply to yeah » Estella, posted by wildcardII on September 2, 2006, at 6:43:15
abberant. sexually abberant, not abhorrent. lol. abberant is my word for the week and i messed it up the first time i got to use it lol.
i try and reject a lot of the female stereotype. i mean... i shave. but i don't wear make up or dresses or skirts i tend to wear jeans and t shirts and stuff. i don't think i'll ever change on that score. i don't own many pairs of shoes. i've never had a handbag. i've got this deuter backpack that i like very much though :-) i don't know... i just... can't get into the spirit of it or something. whats it for? i don't know. i don't mind being female except for the stereotype thing. i think often women think they are overweight and they aren't overweight. women tend to aim for something that is actually unhealthy. i don't know...
but yeah. personality goes a long way. and a great smile can go a long way too. i met this lady from scotland and she most certainly had a solid build. she had wonderful character and an amazing smile. amazing smile. she was amazingly attractive but not at all in the traditional sense. you could see people seek her out in bars because she looked friendly and approachable and intelligent.
i don't know.
i wonder whether society will change?
probably too much money in the make up and fashion industry and fat free foods loaded with sugar for change to occur anytime soon.
lol.
the things we think we have to do to be...
normal
or socially acceptable
or something.appearances are hard. i reject the whole thing... but yeah sometimes i feel very self conscious indeed walking into a cocktail bar with my jeans and hoodie. i feel uncomfortable and out of place. but i look at the pretty girl over in the corner dressed to the nines with layers of carefully applied make up and manicured nails... and i see her laugh nervously... and i feel a little sorry... i feel a little sorry for her. i don't know what i'm trying to say / what i'm saying...
but i think... do we want to be taken seriously or what? and i guess the image is... both. but i don't know... there is something wrong.
random ramblings at 2am.
Posted by Jost on September 2, 2006, at 12:19:07
In reply to Re: yeah, posted by Estella on September 2, 2006, at 11:42:15
Not abhorrent! I kind of went, Hunh? when I saw that.
Not that we aren't abhorrent also. But I did wonder if that was an generally held philosophy or a personal opinion.
How are we aberrant, though--or more aberrant than other animals?
Jost
Posted by Estella on September 2, 2006, at 13:19:55
In reply to Oh: aberrrant!, posted by Jost on September 2, 2006, at 12:19:07
> How are we aberrant, though--or more aberrant than other animals?
I think the differences between the sexual behaviour of people and the sexual behaviour of other primates (as our closest relatives) are very pronounced (hence we are abberant)
:-)
e.g.,
-we don't come on heat / in season. we can mate whenever.
-we (tend to) mate facing each other.i don't know if females (aside from humans) orgasm. don't know.
apparantly there has been a lot of work done on female orgasm. about why females get to orgasm.maybe so they find sex more reinforcing? lol. i don't know.
i think humans are strange because females tend to be more 'showy' than guys. whereas in nature typically it is the other way around. but maybe the 'showy' side of things is cultural. i don't know that biologically females are more 'showy' than males.
though beards. you would have been able to tell the adult males from across the savannah or whatever...
Posted by KayLen on September 2, 2006, at 14:36:59
In reply to Re: Oh: aberrrant! » Jost, posted by Estella on September 2, 2006, at 13:19:55
Just a little food for thought....
..in humans ...which gender gets the big muscles?
in most cases...which grows a beard??
moustaches ..??...which one is the larger more easier to be seen period??
I do not think we are any different in which one is the attractive sex. Take one average man ...one average woman....no make-up....no clothes....no artificial anything...just a bath..and a hairbrush....
what do ya think? Who stands out more?...who has the most of the natural "adornments"?
I have my guess...*S*
Posted by Jost on September 2, 2006, at 20:33:23
In reply to Re: Oh: aberrrant!..food for thought » Estella, posted by KayLen on September 2, 2006, at 14:36:59
Not to be perverse, but for enlightenment on this subject, check "animal sexuality" on wikipedia.
It's an eye-opener.
By the way, wikipedia is apparently pretty reliable, esp. in scientific areas-- which I presume this is (maybe).
Jost
Posted by Estella on September 2, 2006, at 21:28:07
In reply to Re: Oh: aberrrant!..food for thought, posted by Jost on September 2, 2006, at 20:33:23
verrrry bizarre. lol. thanks for the link.
it didn't say about front / front mating or whether other creatures don't have seasons / come in heat... i'm fairly sure my source was reliable on that.
one thing i worry about was that animals don't tend to make / use tools. if they make / use tools for masterbation... well i would be very surprised about that indeed. opportunistic use... i could accept that more readily i guess.
i didn't know homosexual behaviours were so high. the penguins were cool :-)
Posted by Estella on September 2, 2006, at 21:29:34
In reply to Re: Oh: aberrrant!..food for thought » Estella, posted by KayLen on September 2, 2006, at 14:36:59
> what do ya think? Who stands out more?...who has the most of the natural "adornments"?er... well... maybe it depends on what sex you are attracted to?
i mean women have breasts and a distinctive body shape.
i honestly have no idea
Posted by Estella on September 3, 2006, at 0:55:02
In reply to Re: Oh: aberrrant!..food for thought, posted by Estella on September 2, 2006, at 21:29:34
i guess that whether humans are 'remarkably' similar to other species or 'remarkably' different depends on what you are interested in. biologists typically tend to think in terms of similarities. i guess they typically tend to focus on how different species of insect and whatever are from one another and if you focus on differences in the animal kingdom than human differences can amount to 'just another unique species' types of differences. if you focus on distinctly human things like language and tools (like computers and cranes and airplanes) and economics and nations etc then people look 'remarkably' different from other forms of like. abberance is relative to our interests perhaps perhaps.
i don't know what i'm saying.
similarities... differences... everything is similar to everything else in some respect. but then everything is different from everything else in some respect. sometimes my mind boggles. you have a distinction between A and B and then you learn more and they look the same. and then you learn more and they look different. depends on what you focus on i guess.
z.
i wonder where z got to.
i don't know what i'm saying.
i need to write.
repetition compulsion. i knew there was a name for it. repetition compulsion. supposed to occur for trauma but i guess what is traumatic is relative. repetition compulsion is the idea of being 'compelled' to repeat past traumas. i guess the idea is in how you can find these repeating patterns in your life. and if you can describe the pattern at a certain level of analysis it is about repeating past traumas. the idea is that you hope that things will go differently this time.
i was reading about that on someones website. some analyst. he was saying that if you were sexually abused when you were young (for example) you might have repeated relationships with inappropriate people. might try and seduce them or whatever. and what you really want is for things to turn out differently. for the person to resist the seduction or whatever.
i don't know how that applies to me. i guess i worry. i guess i don't know how legit i take the notion to be. i guess i worry that we conform to these notions / concepts. i guess i worry that we narrate our lives in a way that confirms the framework. i don't know what i think.
i've been thinking about projection lately. about how i worry that people will leave me... and about how that seems to manifest is that i find it very hard to attach. so i have one night stands (occasionally) and i don't want to see them the next day. i guess i do to them what i'm afraid they will do to me. that i'll fall for someone and they will be indifferent or they will care and grow to be indifferent. i feel indifferent a lot of the time. maybe it is a defence. maybe. i worry that people will do... what i do to them. or something. people sometimes tell me that i push people away. i guess i do. don't get too close to me. i only fall for people who... will push me away. or people who should push me away. lets say it is repetition compulsion. does that mean that if i get involved in that kind of relationship one or the other or both of us WILL grow indifferent because the attraction is for the wrong reasons?
methinks i'm destined to be alone.
because my biggest fear is that people i care about will leave.
so... i can't seem to care...
not for anyone who isn't going to leave at any rate.what stories am i telling myself?
who the f*ck knows.
Posted by Declan on September 3, 2006, at 1:24:53
In reply to Re: Oh: aberrrant!..food for thought, posted by Estella on September 2, 2006, at 21:29:34
Here they have 'Reclaim the Night' marches. Men are encouraged to show their support by applauding from the sidelines. The spokesperson for this was a person whose first name was Punita, and she appeared in purposeful mode in white flowing robes. She needs a couple of Margaret Thatchers to cool her down.
Posted by KayLen on September 3, 2006, at 3:55:12
In reply to Re: Oh: aberrrant!..food for thought, posted by Estella on September 3, 2006, at 0:55:02
I had a long post written ...but it was too depressing.....so I will say something I heard Clint Eastwood say....
"If ya want a guarantee....buy a toaster"
OH YA...and this one from??
"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results"
Posted by Estella on September 3, 2006, at 6:28:01
In reply to Re: Oh: aberrrant!..food for thought » Estella, posted by KayLen on September 3, 2006, at 3:55:12
aw. i like long, depressing posts.
:-)
Posted by Estella on September 3, 2006, at 6:28:32
In reply to On the male front, posted by Declan on September 3, 2006, at 1:24:53
hrm.
have you gone along?
Posted by KayLen on September 3, 2006, at 8:45:08
In reply to Re: Oh: aberrrant!..food for thought » KayLen, posted by Estella on September 3, 2006, at 6:28:01
Estella, glad to meet you , I am Karen...
..uuhhh...I still have the soul baring depressing post ...if ya wanna hear / see it..*lol*
Posted by Jost on September 3, 2006, at 14:14:15
In reply to Re: On the male front » Declan, posted by Estella on September 3, 2006, at 6:28:32
> hrm.
>
> have you gone along?Okay, I don't know what they means, but I think Declan got caught in a tramatic time-warp thingie. Punita or whoever hasn't gone on a "reclaim the night" vigil since 1998.
So Declan, you can come out of that cave you've been hunkered down in-- the All Safe (for Neanderthals and other unenlightened-type males) rang about six years ago.
Jost
Posted by Declan on September 3, 2006, at 17:29:15
In reply to Re: On the male front Declan, posted by Jost on September 3, 2006, at 14:14:15
Is it really that long? I knew I was lost but maybe I lost track of the time as well.
I could have sworn I saw Punita last year, not in person of course, certainly not at the march.
Things must have been happening while I've been away.
Posted by curtm on September 3, 2006, at 17:38:11
In reply to Re: On the male front Declan, posted by Jost on September 3, 2006, at 14:14:15
Ugg. me curt. you woman. ugg. (sniff-sniff) female good. mmmmm. ugh. me go. kill food. make fire. ugg. me cave. you go? ugg. keep warm. curt warm. hrrr.
Posted by Estella on September 3, 2006, at 22:57:09
In reply to ug. sniff sniff, posted by curtm on September 3, 2006, at 17:38:11
> Ugg. me curt. you woman. ugg. (sniff-sniff) female good. mmmmm. ugh.
> me go. kill food.
hrm. while you do that i'll gather berries and so forth. you probably have a 50% chance of making a kill whereas I'm much surer to find food than you :-p
> make fire.
they reckon that firetending is probably the oldest profession. really. older than that other profession even. but in order for there to be specialists... the social group size would have had to be fairly large (so the group could afford to have a specific fire tender). there would also be risks if there was only one person who could make fire that if they got killed somehow the whole group would be stuffed. probably more likely that women tended fire while guys hunted in social groups (can kill a deer working together but not alone most probably) and you against the bison would be a funny sight :-)
> ugg. me cave. you go? ugg. keep warm.
though we would be safer in our social group ;-)
> curt warm. hrrr.
tee hee. curt funny :-p
Posted by Estella on September 3, 2006, at 22:58:32
In reply to Re: Oh: aberrrant!..food for thought » Estella, posted by KayLen on September 3, 2006, at 8:45:08
> Estella, glad to meet you , I am Karen...
hellos.
> ..uuhhh...I still have the soul baring depressing post ...if ya wanna hear / see it..*lol*
up to you. i find it helps me to post those kindsa posts sometimes :-)
Posted by Jost on September 4, 2006, at 11:34:53
In reply to ug. sniff sniff, posted by curtm on September 3, 2006, at 17:38:11
I take it the auction has ended?
Jost
Posted by Alexus on September 4, 2006, at 23:05:32
In reply to Re: ug. sniff sniff » curtm, posted by Jost on September 4, 2006, at 11:34:53
> I take it the auction has ended?
Quick curt!
The social group is coming!;-)
Posted by llrrrpp on September 16, 2006, at 7:40:15
In reply to Re: Oh: aberrrant! » Jost, posted by Estella on September 2, 2006, at 13:19:55
> > How are we aberrant, though--or more aberrant than other animals?
>
> I think the differences between the sexual behaviour of people and the sexual behaviour of other primates (as our closest relatives) are very pronounced (hence we are abberant)
>Hi Estella,
Glad you cleared up the abhorrent/aberrant thingiebop!As it turns out, Chimps tend to be pretty agressive, and have males that will overpower the females to get what they want (food etc). This stuff we've known about for a long time.
BUT another species of primate, the Bonobo, is just as closely (if not more) related to us homo sapiens. They mate face to face (among other positions). Not just to make babies either. They mate in heat and out of heat. To form social bonds, relieve social tension, and celebrate when a little conflict is solved (bonobo make-up-sex!). They masterbate, and often have sexual encounters of same-sex individuals, or involving more than just a pair of individuals.
Perhaps the most interesting thing to me is that there is less physical agression in this species, compared to chimpanzees (in which male chimps will seek and challenge, often to the death, other bands of male chimps from neighboring territories). In contrast, the bonobo females seem to have a lot of control over the food resources, and seem to form the core stability of the social group. The males have to be "granted" resources by the women, since they cannot rely on their physical strength alone.
There's one woman who is kind of like an advocate to sexual freedom & expression. Her website comes across as a porn website, but if you can navigate through all of that stuff, you might be able to find some interesting material on how Bonobo society uses sex in the place of agression as the social glue of society. Her name might be Block? I cannot remember. oh well.
sorry to take you off on a tangent. Just thought I'd add my 2 cents.. :)
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