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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by jonquiljo on May 12, 2006, at 15:19:16
In reply to Re: Avoiding sex with my wife. » curtm, posted by antigua on May 11, 2006, at 17:00:28
Antigua,
Sorry - csa is rough. I'm glad you've found some ways to deal with it. It sounds like your husband is a really nice guy. All men want to have sex all the time (most men) - its kind of hormonal - so I can understand why he sometimes wants to be "nice". Of course in regular life it would make you want him more.
Its kind of sad the biological difference that make men more libidinous than women - at least indiscriminantly so. Since sex is better now than it was 10 years ago - thats a plus.
My situation is difficult. I think there are major issues in my marriage that I must just accept for being the way they are. I'm pretty convinced that things most likely will never change. While thats terribly unfortunate - sometime unfortunate must be accepted. And believe me, I am not a passive person. Since I truly love my wife - I probably must accept the way it is - since leaving is not an option for me. It doesn't make it less frustrating, however. Oh well - I'm in my 50's and had many good sexual years. Probably its kind of like losing a limb - I need to accept things and move on. Crying in my soup won't do me any good.
Just trying to make the best of my very limited options.
Posted by curtm on May 12, 2006, at 15:45:53
In reply to Avoiding sex with my wife., posted by curtm on May 9, 2006, at 16:30:32
I can always take matters "into my own hands."
OOOh- sorry. too much information
Posted by Estella on May 12, 2006, at 20:25:08
In reply to Re: Avoiding sex with my wife. » curtm, posted by curtm on May 12, 2006, at 15:45:53
er... how come you guys don't try talking to your wives?
i'm serious.
to say some of what you said here.
maybe even to write it down and give it to them.that you like them and you really wish it was part of your relationship...
and that it doesn't seem so important to them...
and do they think something is missing there too?
because i'm not so sure that it is as simple as 'most women could do without it' and 'most men need it all the time'. i think people vary.
csa can make things hard...
and there are other things that can make it hard too.
there are other things you can do as well to feel intimate. massage and stuff like that...
and sex therapy...
but i'd say talk to them first.
Posted by Declan on May 12, 2006, at 21:18:56
In reply to Re: Avoiding sex with my wife., posted by Estella on May 12, 2006, at 20:25:08
Look, I've talked my wife under the table. She wants no more talk out of me (not true, just felt compelled etc). 30 bloody years of talk. You grow close, you love each other, are good friends, and sex goes out the window. The last thing you need is more talk. Just trying to cheer myself up again...pay no attention.
Declan
Posted by Declan on May 12, 2006, at 21:24:03
In reply to Re: Avoiding sex with my wife., posted by Estella on May 12, 2006, at 20:25:08
what does csa stand for?
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 12, 2006, at 22:31:32
In reply to And uh..., posted by Declan on May 12, 2006, at 21:24:03
> what does csa stand for?
childhood sexual abuse
Posted by curtm on May 12, 2006, at 23:51:53
In reply to Avoiding sex with my wife., posted by curtm on May 9, 2006, at 16:30:32
The more I talk about it, the more I realize what it is I'm tryng to say.
I guess to put it simply, its a "trigger"
And f***, I happened to have the thread up on the computer when I went to make my kid a sandwich and she read the whole f;in thread. I had some serious explaining to do. Gddmit! I had an anxiety attack. She thought it was about her. It's about me, not her.
*******************People that aren't like us just don't understand.
Please RSVP anyone
Posted by Estella on May 12, 2006, at 23:54:15
In reply to Re: Avoiding sex with my wife. » Estella, posted by Declan on May 12, 2006, at 21:18:56
> Look, I've talked my wife under the table. She wants no more talk out of me (not true, just felt compelled etc). 30 bloody years of talk. You grow close, you love each other, are good friends, and sex goes out the window. The last thing you need is more talk. Just trying to cheer myself up again...pay no attention.
er...
i mean talk to her about why she doesn't seem to want sex.
because... i think most people kind of do like sex. or some kind of physical intimacy...
i'm thinking of a friend i knew. she didn't like sex. she didn't think she liked sex. and there was a lot of conflict about that in her marriage because her husband wanted a lot more... and she said she would be happy without any of that at all.
why?
we talked about that... and part of it was about... him not really knowing what she liked. and she didn't know what she liked really either... but when you haven't had any for a while... then sometimes the guy is fairly keen... and it can hurt. a lot. and so then there was this cycle... of not doing it for a while... then doing it... then it hurting her... then her not wanting to do it... and so on.
they kind of figured some stuff out.
massage. things like that. patience. figuring out what kind of stuff she liked.
but i'm serious about the pain stuff.
and if there is csa in the past... or roughness... or something... then i think sometimes women get put off sex.
and so sometimes it is about just taking it real slow.
and learning other ways of being physically intimate that maybe don't involve penetration. stuff like that...i just meant that it can be a really hard thing to talk about.
because it feels horrible to think that someone we love (who loves us) doesn't want to be intimate in that way.
and it can be a HUGE blow to the self esteem.
I understand that.But being able to talk about it...
Can be the first step.
And really... I can't say enough good things about massage as a form of physical intimacy.
Posted by Declan on May 13, 2006, at 0:18:10
In reply to Re: Avoiding sex with my wife., posted by Estella on May 12, 2006, at 23:54:15
Naturally I have already talked to her. When I mentioned this thread and my post she said, 'well, do they (men) really want it that much either?' Meaning, 'if you did, that MIGHT turn me on a bit'.
The way this is conventionally put is that romantic love fades and is replaced by something else...something more mature.
I think it would be easier all round (especially at this end of things) if sexual faithfulness was not so important to us.
Posted by Estella on May 13, 2006, at 2:05:24
In reply to Re: Avoiding sex with my wife. » Estella, posted by Declan on May 13, 2006, at 0:18:10
hmm.
well sure i get that some of the excitement wears off...
so i get that people might do it a bit less frequently than they used to...
but i guess i still would have thought that people would want to be intimate with each other sometimes...of course psych meds don't typically do wonders for the libido (that could have a lot to do with it)
Posted by Declan on May 13, 2006, at 4:37:02
In reply to Re: Avoiding sex with my wife., posted by Estella on May 13, 2006, at 2:05:24
Well, yeah, intimacy, sure.....why would you live with someone if you weren't? But experience comes in all shapes and sizes, and we always want more. This thing we're discussing is as old as the hills. I sure don't want to hand it over to someone to make money out of. Intimacy too comes in all shapes and sizes. Like, maybe....
Declan
Posted by jonquiljo on May 13, 2006, at 4:43:17
In reply to Re: Avoiding sex with my wife., posted by Estella on May 13, 2006, at 2:05:24
Psych meds, growing older, lots of things. Mostly complacency is the problem - its a deviation from the "animal chase." In the beginning, you court one another and sex becomes a very central part of your existence (at least in many couples). Times sets in, the chase becomes more tame.
Now fidelity, which you would expect would foster the expression of more love - does completely the opposite. When your partner fells your fidelity set in, he or she sits more comforatably. They don't feel compelled to compete for your attention anymore - after all, you are theirs faithfully. Then sex goes out the window.
This is just the beginning ... basically sex becomes a habit that is quickly unlearned. Very few people I have known would actually wander outside their marriage for sexual fullfillment - it just isn't why you got into a marraige in the first place. Its when your partner knows they have you is when their interest in sex can wane - and yes, the lazy habits set in as well.
Of course many people have other reasons. Like sometimes your partner does not want to enjoy life - and is basically hell bent in making that part of your problem too. What are you going to do? You're not going to leave - or even stray - the other person means too much to you - you actually do love them dearly. It is very dysfunctional - but thats the way it is. So you start strange hobbies or collecting Porsches - or whatever keeps you sooooo occupied that you don't really let that essential missing component of your life bother you any more than it has to.
I guess thats more information than is necessary - but I think you can get the idea. Isn't love grand?
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 13, 2006, at 8:18:37
In reply to Re: Avoiding sex with my wife. » Estella, posted by Declan on May 13, 2006, at 0:18:10
> Naturally I have already talked to her. When I mentioned this thread and my post she said, 'well, do they (men) really want it that much either?' Meaning, 'if you did, that MIGHT turn me on a bit'.
> The way this is conventionally put is that romantic love fades and is replaced by something else...something more mature.
> I think it would be easier all round (especially at this end of things) if sexual faithfulness was not so important to us.Being taken for granted is hardly an inspiration to sexual expression, I should think. And I think the taking and being taken are reciprocal. You have to show that there is something else at play. When's the last time you spontaneously told her how much she means to you? When's the last time you snuck her away on a date? Ya know?
I know how crushing it can be to be rebuffed in those circumstances, though. I'm not making any assumptions. Just trying to ask the right question. Some women are happy to let the fire go out. There is no stock answer.
Lar
Posted by happyflower on May 13, 2006, at 11:18:00
In reply to Re: Avoiding sex with my wife. » Declan, posted by Larry Hoover on May 13, 2006, at 8:18:37
I think saying that men have bigger appetites for sex than women is so generalizing. I have almost always had a healthy appetite whether I was with someone or not.
My DH just deceided one day that we would rather have someone else and our sex life stopped against my wishes. But now that the affair is over, I don't want him anyways.
Posted by antigua on May 13, 2006, at 13:20:55
In reply to Difficult to construe?, posted by Declan on May 13, 2006, at 4:37:02
O.k., this is really more than I am EVER willing to disclose. I've been married a long time and while I agree that sex in the beginning is about finding each other and pleasing each other, and having a whole lot of fun, there does come a time when it takes a turn, or at least it did for me. After children is so very difficult, as I've already said, because my focus was different. But a much more fulfilling type of sex has taken over in our later years. I'm sure it's me--that I'm not so hung up on it, or avoid it all the time (I still avoid it sometimes!), but it's just that it brings so much to the relationship in ways that you men who have given up on it don't realize. It's worth it to find out WHY she feels this way. I will admit that part of my reticence was about my own body and not knowing what would bring it pleasure (cringe with embarrassment), and I've had to work at it.
I saw some health quiz my husband had filled out in a mag and he gave our sex life better marks than I would have--but the fact that I could help make that come true for him was huge for me.
Don't get me wrong. My husband is just a regular guy, but he's a good man and if we want to maintain our relationship, sex has to be a part of it. We have never been unfaithful to one another, but I do know (or fear as the case may be) that if he did stray, it would be because of sex.
I can't believe I wrote all of this. But please don't give up!
antigua
Posted by jonquiljo on May 13, 2006, at 14:32:37
In reply to Re: Difficult to construe?, posted by antigua on May 13, 2006, at 13:20:55
> but I do know (or fear as the case may be) that if he did stray, it would be because of sex.
Yes, thats the dilemma. It can work the other way in that once you know he will NOT stray - sex becomes no longer necessary to keep him in tow.The problem is that the "other" partner isn't about to say "look, if I don't get what I want - I'll go somewhere else!" Most people are more civil than that. So you say, "Please, can we have a bit more of a sex life". The partner says yes of course- but since they know you aren't going to wander, things stay the way they are. Begging is undignified.
Of course there are usuailly a myriad of "other" problems to contend with so sex remains in the back room.
Oh well, life could be worse. I certainly could never be content with myself if I was unfaithful - so I guess that determines how I will continue.
Posted by jonquiljo on May 13, 2006, at 14:35:06
In reply to Re: Difficult to construe?, posted by jonquiljo on May 13, 2006, at 14:32:37
BTW, it seems that this thread has "livened" up this forum. Obviously intra-marital sex (or the lack of it) is a hot topic. Lets hear from a few more. Please? Yes, I will beg on this one.
Jon
Posted by curtm on May 13, 2006, at 17:04:31
In reply to This thread is getting more and more interesting!, posted by jonquiljo on May 13, 2006, at 14:35:06
Posted by antigua on May 13, 2006, at 19:01:55
In reply to Re: Difficult to construe?, posted by jonquiljo on May 13, 2006, at 14:32:37
It isn't an implied threat that he would stray because of no sex; it's just MY fear. He would never do it, just like you guys say you won't.
antigua
Posted by jonquiljo on May 13, 2006, at 20:14:30
In reply to Re: Difficult to construe? » jonquiljo, posted by antigua on May 13, 2006, at 19:01:55
Thats the problem. Its EVERYONE's fear. Men and women all want to keep their partners happy. If they think that their partner is perfectly content - they don't try so hard.
Though lots of men stray, most don't. Thats the dilemma. So those of us that still want to have sex generally spend our days avoiding the fact that we never have any. Pitiful if you ask me.
Posted by Declan on May 13, 2006, at 21:34:49
In reply to Re: Difficult to construe? » jonquiljo, posted by antigua on May 13, 2006, at 19:01:55
It is just important to me to be able to feel decent enough.....other than that I don't have too many rules in life. But decent enough can cover a bit of territory. There's lots more important things than my sex life.
But rather than just talking about sex, I would like to emphasise romantic emphatuation (that IS a word?). You don't have that with good friends. And it is a part of life that our/my living arrangements preclude. That's all. It's only important to me because I'm one of those people who are always trying to lose their ego boundaries and merge with someone else (origin of social phobia clear enough....ie when that happens compulsively?)
Declan
Posted by Declan on May 13, 2006, at 21:49:13
In reply to Sex, romance, decency, posted by Declan on May 13, 2006, at 21:34:49
Infatuation! Got it mixed up with emphatic. Brain slowly going.
Posted by Estella on May 13, 2006, at 23:17:17
In reply to Re: Difficult to construe?, posted by jonquiljo on May 13, 2006, at 14:32:37
> Of course there are usuailly a myriad of "other" problems to contend with so sex remains in the back room.ah.
i think that if you are mad at someone then the last thing you feel like doing is being intimate with them.
sometimes making progress on those other problems can help...
>
Posted by jonquiljo on May 14, 2006, at 0:48:25
In reply to Re: Difficult to construe? » jonquiljo, posted by Estella on May 13, 2006, at 23:17:17
> i think that if you are mad at someone then the last thing you feel like doing is being intimate with them.
>
> sometimes making progress on those other problems can help...
Actually, no -Estella. I was referring to the "myriad" of functional problem in life such as toilets breaking, bank balances, really simple stuff. Are you perhaps mad at me?
Posted by Estella on May 14, 2006, at 2:08:52
In reply to Re: Difficult to construe?, posted by jonquiljo on May 14, 2006, at 0:48:25
> Actually, no -Estella. I was referring to the "myriad" of functional problem in life such as toilets breaking, bank balances, really simple stuff. Are you perhaps mad at me?
no. i'm not mad at you at all.
really.i guess i'm thinking...
that for women (in particular)...
later in life is meant to be when they find sex most fulfilling / satisfying.so i was thinking about what might be going on.
not re assigning blame or anything like that... just trying to figure what is going on...
i don't know a whole heap about the topic...
sorry if i hurt / offended.
i just meant that if you argue about stuff then that isn't so conducive to wanting to be intimate... at least it isn't for me... though sometimes a good argument can help clear the air... sometimes not.
i don't know...
just sounds to me like you really care about her
and would like more intimacy
and i would think that that is something that people do need to work on.
i mean there is this idea that things like that don't take work they should just happen...
but i think the reality is that these things take work.and intimacy... i guess sex is the ultimate expression of intimacy. but there are other ways of being intimate. and sometimes... if you build on those other ways of being intimate... then sex is something that happens a bit more.
i've read some stuff on sex therapy.
where that wasn't really happening in the marriage / relationship and they wanted to be happier / more intimate...there... i guess they needed to talk about it before making a joint decision to do the retreat...
sometimes the problem was that the lady didn't like sex. and so she was fairly half hearted about whether she really wanted that... but it was more about intimacy and stuff.
and there were things they did (homework exercises)
and stuff like that...and the rates of improvement (in the next couple weeks months years) were amazing.
i'm just saying that i think a fair few people don't feel as happy with their sex lives as they would like to be (and there are a lot of guys who are married / in a committed relationship and they aren't getting as much as they would like / any...) and... it probably isn't talked about as much as it should be ('cause people feel embarrassed i guess)
but i don't think there is anything to feel embarrassed ashamed about. i think it is good to talk about it. and also... i think a lot of people have similar problems... and... i think that typically... there is a lot that can be done towards improving the situation.
but it can be jolly hard to figure what to do...
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