![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Daisym on January 23, 2006, at 1:50:59
Why does ending my life seem like a better choice than divorce?
I'm sitting here tonight thinking that I can't do this anymore. Today was just awful, so many hurtful words, a storm that broke open. And he blamed his diabetic reaction on me -- because I stood my ground and got in a fight with him and then *I* didn't recognize what was happening. He said I took advantage of the situation and "picked on him." I was just defending myself. It is too complicated to explain further.
I need a way out. Divorce doesn't seem like a good option, Catholic and kid and all that. But aren't those the very same reasons I'm not allowed to end my life either?
Don't tell me to talk to him. I tried today and it got me no where. I tried more than once and was told how I've changed into a terrible person. He told me that he had a "documented, ligitimate" illness and I...well, I was wallowing and seeing a "quack." I'm telling myself it was in the midst of a crisis and things get said. But how many times does he get to use that excuse?
I'm just so done. Sorry for ranting but I think I'm talking more to myself than anyone out there. This isn't where I usually post, so it does seem weird that i'm sort of saying goodbye here.
The question is, good-bye to what? My marriage?
Posted by caraher on January 23, 2006, at 12:46:59
In reply to Divorce vs. Suicide (trigger), posted by Daisym on January 23, 2006, at 1:50:59
> Why does ending my life seem like a better choice than divorce?
Because you're depressed?
> I need a way out. Divorce doesn't seem like a good option, Catholic and kid and all that. But aren't those the very same reasons I'm not allowed to end my life either?If it helps at all, civil divorce itself is not inconsistent with Roman Catholicism. They just won't let you remarry while your ex is alive unless you get an annullment.
> The question is, good-bye to what? My marriage?
YES!!! If you only see one other option, which I can categorically state is no option at all.
You are so much more than your marriage. Please take care of yourself! (((daisy)))
Posted by jonquiljo on January 23, 2006, at 14:21:45
In reply to Divorce vs. Suicide (trigger), posted by Daisym on January 23, 2006, at 1:50:59
Caraher said it best ... "you are so much more than your marriage". How true. There are so many options for you in the world. It sounds to me like death SHOULDN'T be one of them.
In a marriage, we all get consumed somewhat. Its hard to see outside - whats going on and what is available for us. When things go wrong we blame it on ourselves - and often feel like ther are no options. But there are.
Give yourself some credit for your own life. Your kid needs you, there are other people in your life that need you - and best of all, you probably need you.
You will do the best thing, divorce or not. Youre venting on this board - thats a good thing. We all need time to vent and think.
Posted by littleone on January 23, 2006, at 20:30:02
In reply to Divorce vs. Suicide (trigger), posted by Daisym on January 23, 2006, at 1:50:59
> Why does ending my life seem like a better choice than divorce?
Perhaps because you need to be assertive and stand up to someone to get a divorce. There would be conflict and anger and hurt to deal with. With suicide you can slink away quietly. You know you're hurting people, but you don't have to face that directly. I'm definately not saying it *is* a better choice, simply that this may be why it feels that way.
> I'm sitting here tonight thinking that I can't do this anymore. Today was just awful, so many hurtful words, a storm that broke open. And he blamed his diabetic reaction on me -- because I stood my ground and got in a fight with him and then *I* didn't recognize what was happening. He said I took advantage of the situation and "picked on him." I was just defending myself. It is too complicated to explain further.It does sound like a terrible day. Just awful. Even without hearing the whole story, I believe you didn't cross any lines. As you say, just defending yourself. You haven't done anything wrong. You're learning to be a little more assertive. You still have a long way to go. But you are trying hard which is good.
People don't like changes. People want predictable. Changes upset the applecart. That doesn't mean they're wrong. Some applecarts need upsetting.
> I need a way out. Divorce doesn't seem like a good option, Catholic and kid and all that. But aren't those the very same reasons I'm not allowed to end my life either?
Divorce may not seem like a good option for the reasons you have named, but that doesn't make it a bad option. It's just a difficult option. But it is an option. And definately higher up the options list than suicide.
If you divorce, your kids may find things hard moving between parents. They may be upset. But they will cope and adjust and in time may even see that you made a good choice and it was for the best.
They will never think that if you kill yourself. It will devastate them and permanently wound them.
And remember that there are more than two options here. I know one would be to stay together in a limited capacity (ie your relationship is limited in some ways) until a certain time. I'm sure there would be other options, but I'm not good at thinking of grays. You need to talk to your T about this.
You have called your T haven't you? If you haven't, I want you to call him right now. Okay?
> Don't tell me to talk to him. I tried today and it got me no where. I tried more than once and was told how I've changed into a terrible person. He told me that he had a "documented, ligitimate" illness and I...well, I was wallowing and seeing a "quack." I'm telling myself it was in the midst of a crisis and things get said. But how many times does he get to use that excuse?Never. Maybe once if you're a softie. His comments are totally uncalled for and deliberately hurtful. He is completely off base and downright *wrong*. You need to believe that part of you that knows deep inside that he is wrong.
> I'm just so done. Sorry for ranting but I think I'm talking more to myself than anyone out there. This isn't where I usually post, so it does seem weird that i'm sort of saying goodbye here.
>
> The question is, good-bye to what? My marriage?Well you're definately not saying goodbye to us. Not allowed at all. It sounds like you're saying goodbye to hope. Can you believe that I'm holding a little bit of hope just for you? I'm sure your T is holding a big chunk of hope as well.
You may be saying goodbye to your marriage, or even your marriage as you know it. Only you know that.
You may be saying goodbye to sitting back and hiding from the problem. It sounds like some sort of action is required (whether that be to leave him, to stand up to him, to work on altering your marriage, to work on making a healthier marriage).
And I bet that is pretty scary for someone who doesn't like anger and confrontation and conflict and being a "bad girl". I know I would find it terrifying.
But babble is here for you. You have your T. Do you have close friends? You aren't alone.
And make sure you call your T.
Posted by crushedout on January 24, 2006, at 1:19:36
In reply to Divorce vs. Suicide (trigger), posted by Daisym on January 23, 2006, at 1:50:59
Daisy, this message is very alarming. I am worried about you. Please get some help IRL. Please call your T. I hope you have already.
Posted by fallsfall on January 24, 2006, at 7:44:50
In reply to Divorce vs. Suicide (trigger), posted by Daisym on January 23, 2006, at 1:50:59
Daisy,
You can't leave your son with your husband. If you kill yourself, then that is what will happen. You won't even leave your son for one night - how can you possibly consider leaving him forever?
I know you are in pain. Please reach out of your pain. We are here to help you.
Please call me now. I'm getting worried about you.
With love and concern,
Falls
Posted by antigua on January 24, 2006, at 8:19:14
In reply to Divorce vs. Suicide (trigger), posted by Daisym on January 23, 2006, at 1:50:59
You took a big step by confronting your husband, and it turned out ugly. That doesn't mean you are ugly or bad, just that the situation is. He pressed buttons that he knew would upset you. Despite all the time and effort you have put into his situation, you have your own life to live.
You have three (right?) wonderful sons and you don't want to leave them to him to explain what you've done. He is wrong and you are right.
Your T will help; he always does. It's hard to see that this might be progress, but speaking your mind to your husband is a huge step.
love,
antigua
Posted by gardenergirl on January 25, 2006, at 1:16:34
In reply to Re: Divorce vs. Suicide (trigger) » Daisym, posted by antigua on January 24, 2006, at 8:19:14
It was good to chat with you tonight. I'm so very sorry that happened with your husband. He may make excuses and try to shift it onto you, but that's his way of feeling okay about himself despite what he did. That doesn't make it true, the things he said.
I'm glad you are looking at options, and I trust you will talk about them with your T.
And I'm glad you posted this.
(((((Daisy)))))
Just keep swimming.
gg
Posted by Daisym on January 25, 2006, at 5:24:58
In reply to ((((((((Daisy)))))))))) » antigua, posted by gardenergirl on January 25, 2006, at 1:16:34
I think I seriously know what the term "gaslighted" means...tonight he acted like he has been waiting for ME to stop being mad at him. He didn't want to talk about the whole thing -- "we'll just fight again, and I'm over it..." and that was that. I asked him if it had bothered him at all over the past two days and he said he had been too busy at work to think about it.
So I spend three days destroyed and trying to figure out what to do next and he's --what?-- confident that everything will just go back to the way it always is?
He fell asleep in the chair until almost midnight. I worked in the office. He came in, told me I work too much, told me he'd be in bed naked and that I needed to come "make it up to him." I didn't go in right away and he yelled for me -- asked if I was going to pout and be b*tchy about the whole thing. "Do you really want to start this up again?"
No...so I let him hold me and tell me that he missed me the past two days, (what?! I thought you didn't think about it) and that he hates having to get mad at me. He said he knows I love him and that I should know he loves me no matter what else he says. I felt like a trapped child -- but I knew this would happen, having to Choose between more anger or unwanted sex; I chose the sex.
Now it is 3am and I'm sitting at the bottom of a deep dark hole. There are things that have to be done tomorrow but after that...
What is the rule? If you have a plan, motivation and enough energy to carry out your plan, are you suppose to stop yourself with rational talk or tell someone or what?
Sorry -- feeling morose and tired but no sleep. This isn't the checking in post I thought I was going to write. I should delete but I think I want someone, somewhere in the Universe to know how awful I feel.
Even prayer escapes me tonight. Has even God given up on me?
Posted by fallsfall on January 25, 2006, at 8:06:32
In reply to Re: ((((((((Daisy)))))))))) trigger, posted by Daisym on January 25, 2006, at 5:24:58
There are things to do after today. A whole life of things to do.
Please call your therapist this morning.
Please call me.
We are here and we will be gentle. We are on your side. We want you to be happy. We want you to not be terrorized.
I wish I could come and sit with you. I'd get up and make you a bowl of Cream of Wheat. I like it with butter and honey. But I'd ask you what your favorite way is and I'd make it for you just the way you like it. I'd bring it to you while you sit in the corner of the couch, and the bowl would be warm and comforting.
I'd sing you a lullaby so that you could sleep. I'd protect you from the world. While you slept I would read a book next to you, staying there watching over you. When you woke up, you could cuddle if you like, and I'll stroke your hair.
The world isn't all angry and ugly. Remember how your children make you feel when they burst in the door calling "Mom!! Mom!! guess what happened today?"
I'm here.
I love you.
Falls
Posted by Daisym on January 25, 2006, at 10:01:05
In reply to Re: ((((((((Daisy)))))))))) trigger, posted by Daisym on January 25, 2006, at 5:24:58
I wish for all the things you described.
And as usual, I can't have what i want. So, new day -- try to want what I have. Amazing what 3 hours sleep will do, huh?
I have to go to work but I wanted to post and say I survived the night. Thanks for the support.
Please don't worry. I'm tougher than I sound.
Love and hugs,
Daisy
Posted by gardenergirl on January 25, 2006, at 12:07:12
In reply to Re: ((((((((Daisy)))))))))) trigger » Daisym, posted by Daisym on January 25, 2006, at 10:01:05
Thanks for posting today. I'm glad you're tough and that you were able to get some sleep.
I hope you have a T appt. or call soon.
And I hope you realize that there are other ways of escaping. I know when someone is depressed, the options seem very verm limited. There are others.
For example, you could come to stay with me for a few days or however long you need. I have a spare bedroom and bath. You could sleep as long as you want. We could sit by the fire and drink tea and eat COW (I'd try it again to see what I've been missing.) We could talk, shop, eat, laugh, cry, or be silent. I could show you the beautiful things of my Grandmother's I now am honored to have. ---I mean this with all sincerity.
You deserve this, and you deserve to feel safe, secure, and loved.
I wish this feeling for you with all my heart.
Please stay in touch however you can.
(((((Daisy)))))
gg
Posted by fallsfall on January 25, 2006, at 12:57:15
In reply to Re: ((((((((Daisy)))))))))) trigger » Daisym, posted by Daisym on January 25, 2006, at 10:01:05
Thanks for checking in.
I had COW for breakfast, did you?
Posted by jonquiljo on January 25, 2006, at 14:43:49
In reply to Re: ((((((((Daisy)))))))))) trigger » Daisym, posted by Daisym on January 25, 2006, at 10:01:05
> I wish for all the things you described.
>
> And as usual, I can't have what i want. So, new day -- try to want what I have. Amazing what 3 hours sleep will do, huh?
>
> I have to go to work but I wanted to post and say I survived the night. Thanks for the support.
>
> Please don't worry. I'm tougher than I sound.
> Love and hugs,
> Daisy
>
>Daisy, you sounds like a very wonderful person that has one hell of an *sshole for a husband. Give yourself some credit - you CAN have what you want. You just have to get through these unpleasant times.
It sounds like you have a heell of a lot to offer the world. When I was younger, I never met women like you. That has to count for something. Please lean on the people here and try to find the strength to move on.
I certainly can understand the place you are coming from, but please don't give up.
Posted by Tamar on January 26, 2006, at 20:00:49
In reply to Re: ((((((((Daisy)))))))))) trigger, posted by Daisym on January 25, 2006, at 5:24:58
Hmmm… You’re in a very difficult place right now.
It sounds to me as if your husband has absolutely no idea what’s at stake for you in any situation.
Part of the issue is that he doesn’t know because you haven’t told him. But at the same time I can understand why you haven’t told him if he is consistently insensitive.
> I think I seriously know what the term "gaslighted" means...tonight he acted like he has been waiting for ME to stop being mad at him. He didn't want to talk about the whole thing -- "we'll just fight again, and I'm over it..." and that was that. I asked him if it had bothered him at all over the past two days and he said he had been too busy at work to think about it.
He might be playing it down (because men aren’t allowed to have emotions…)
> So I spend three days destroyed and trying to figure out what to do next and he's --what?-- confident that everything will just go back to the way it always is?
That’s probably true. Because things have always gone back to how they were before.
> He fell asleep in the chair until almost midnight. I worked in the office. He came in, told me I work too much, told me he'd be in bed naked and that I needed to come "make it up to him." I didn't go in right away and he yelled for me -- asked if I was going to pout and be b*tchy about the whole thing. "Do you really want to start this up again?"
Ewww… I have to say, that isn’t the way healthy couples make things up. If he were genuinely sorry for the situation he should be offering to make things up to you as a peace offering. When I hear those words in my head, it sounds to me like a man talking to a prostitute rather than to a spouse. (That’s because I believe in absolute sexual freedom of choice, and it doesn’t sound to me as if you had any freedom of choice in that situation.)
> No...so I let him hold me and tell me that he missed me the past two days, (what?! I thought you didn't think about it) and that he hates having to get mad at me. He said he knows I love him and that I should know he loves me no matter what else he says. I felt like a trapped child -- but I knew this would happen, having to Choose between more anger or unwanted sex; I chose the sex.
But it seems clear to me that the sex was about anger. And no wonder it’s triggering for you. I know this might sound extreme, but I reckon that if your husband is in the habit of blackmailing you into sex, you are in abusive marriage and a divorce is probably the best thing for you.
> Sorry -- feeling morose and tired but no sleep. This isn't the checking in post I thought I was going to write. I should delete but I think I want someone, somewhere in the Universe to know how awful I feel.
>
> Even prayer escapes me tonight. Has even God given up on me?Well, I’m not as religious as I’d like to be, but I don’t think God gives up on people. If prayer sometimes escapes you, perhaps it’s because your situation is to desperate that prayer seems too formal or too structured. Have you tried screaming at God?
For a while I worked with Christian women who had experienced domestic violence, and many of them said when they talked to ministers/priests they were told stuff like, “Jesus told us to turn the other cheek.” And that’s utter crap. In a one-off argument between equals perhaps it can be good to refrain from retaliating. But that’s not the same as believing your partner is allowed to treat you as a sex slave just because you are married.
If I recall, you have a very cool priest. Can you talk to him? He’s probably not allowed to advise you to get a divorce. But he might say some helpful things.
(((((Daisy)))))
I hope things get better for you soon.
Tamar
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Relationships | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.