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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by uneeq1 on December 5, 2005, at 2:18:42
I haven't seen this addressed anywhere else on this site so I decided to open it up.
I am coming up on the 10th year anniversary of finding out (again) that my husband is cheating.
He went 10 years without cheating and then did it again. I have tried to save my marriage despite these things for many reasons. I tried because I wanted to give my kids what I didn't have - an intact home. Lesson learned on that - just because it's intact doesn't mean it's healthy or happy. Maybe just maybe it would have been better to leave and start over. I tried to save our marriage because in the beginning none of the kids knew and they loved their Dad. Lesson learned - no matter how hard you try they always find out. My oldest two don't respect him and are angry. They are having relationship problems now that they are older, as I did. I didn't save them from anything. I guess another reason I tried to salvage my so called marriage is because I felt responsible. I bought all of his garbage as to why it was my fault. Some of the reasons why our marriage isn't happy is my fault. But, it's not my fault he chose to cheat. That's his lack of integrity and general "the world owes me" attitude. He expects miracles of everyone else and nothing of himself.
Why am I bring this garbage up now? I am finally feeling better and more like myself now that I am taking good meds for my depession and I am thinking clearly for a change. Won't go into that subject any further as I post in another area on this site for that.
How do you learn to trust your feelings? I find that often when I talk about this situation with the adultery I feel I betray him. This makes me feel guilty and therefore allow myself to feel closer to him. However, once he actually touches me in anyway or kisses me I am reminded that the feelings on my part just aren't there anymore. I know this sounds really weird but it's confusing the hell out of me. My head tells me one thing, my heart appears to tell me another. Then reality happens and it appears to tell me another. How do you know, really know when it's really over? How do you know if it's really what you feel or just emotion?
45 but feeling like a two year old.
Posted by allisonross on December 5, 2005, at 15:12:45
In reply to Affairs, posted by uneeq1 on December 5, 2005, at 2:18:42
> I haven't seen this addressed anywhere else on this site so I decided to open it up.
Hi, sweetie: My ex wasn't cheating, but he abused me for 31 years. It was the scariest, most excruciating decision to divorce him. It has been 5 months now. I did it because i realized I deserved a man of integrity; someone with empathy, warmth....all of the things we need as humans. I did a ton of research. he is a narcissist with something called a "personality/character disorder.
Abandoned and failed by everyone in my life (beginning with a father I never new): i battled the fear of being alone.
> I am coming up on the 10th year anniversary of finding out (again) that my husband is cheating.
> He went 10 years without cheating and then did it again. I have tried to save my marriageyou cannot save it---alone
despite these things for many reasons. I tried because I wanted to give my kids what I didn't have - an intact home. Lesson learned on that - just because it's intact doesn't mean it's healthy or happy. Maybe just maybe it would have been better to leave and start over. I tried to save our marriage because in the beginning none of the kids knew and they loved their Dad. Lesson learned - no matter how hard you try they always find out. My oldest two don't respect him and are angry. They are having relationship problems now that they are older, as I did. I didn't save them from anything. I guess another reason I tried to salvage my so called marriage is because I felt responsible. I bought all of his garbage as to why it was my fault. Some of the reasons why our marriage isn't happy is my fault. But, it's not my fault he chose to cheat. That's his lack of integrity and general "the world owes me" attitude. He expects miracles of everyone else and nothing of himself.
> Why am I bring this garbage up now? I am finally feeling better and more like myself now that I am taking good meds for my depession and I am thinking clearly for a change. Won't go into that subject any further as I post in another area on this site for that.
> How do you learn to trust your feelings?
I don't know.I find that often when I talk about this situation with the adultery I feel I betray him.
He betrayed you, himself, the marriage and your children.
This makes me feel guilty and therefore allow myself to feel closer to him.
Knowing the difference between "our' stuff and THEIR "stuff" is a huge key. You did nothing to make him cheat.
However, once he actually touches me in anyway or kisses me I am reminded that the feelings on my part just aren't there anymore.
HOW could they be??!!
I know this sounds really weird but it's confusing the hell out of me.
It's not weird; it IS NORMAL.
My head tells me one thing, my heart appears to tell me another. Then reality happens and it appears to tell me another. How do you know, really know when it's really over? How do you know if it's really what you feel or just emotion?
have you considered counseling for yourself? Would he go? Why did he cheat? Does he want to save the marriage? So many questions to be answered.
> 45 but feeling like a two year old.
I would suggest therapy for YOURSELF and the children.......and you and your husband separately, if he realizes he has a problem and wants to change to save the marriage. He made a choice to cheat
He wants either to own up to it, and figure out why he did/does this, and whether he cares enough about you and the kids to figure himself out and change.
I don't know how you learn to trust, after that has been broken.....It's a time thing, I think.
Hugs, Ally
The big question is: What is it you want?>
>
Posted by uneeq1 on December 6, 2005, at 4:10:30
In reply to Re: Affairs » uneeq1, posted by allisonross on December 5, 2005, at 15:12:45
> Hi, sweetie: My ex wasn't cheating, but he abused me for 31 years. It was the scariest, most excruciating decision to divorce him. It has been 5 months now. I did it because i realized I deserved a man of integrity; someone with empathy, warmth....all of the things we need as humans. I did a ton of research. he is a narcissist with something called a "personality/character disorder.>>
Thanks for your reply. It has been suggested to me by a couple of the psycologists we have seen that my husband also suffers from some sort of personality/character disorder. He has a twisted sense of reality and of right and wrong.
I, like you, also want more out of my life. I want to experience "real" love. I don't feel my husband could ever love me or anyone else for he is too selfish. I was actually told this after I had been dating him for two years by a pastor. I didn't believe him because of course I was still in denial.<< Abandoned and failed by everyone in my life (beginning with a father I never new): i battled the fear of being alone. >>
I battle this as well. I grew up in a very alcoholic family and was abused.
>
> Knowing the difference between "our' stuff and THEIR "stuff" is a huge key. You did nothing to make him cheat.
<<Knowing I did nothing to "make" him cheat has been the hardest for me to accept. I am far from perfect. I am a horrible housekeeper. That's his reason for cheating. I still battle this. I don't organize myself, my time, or my things as I need to. I am learning though.
> have you considered counseling for yourself? Would he go? Why did he cheat? Does he want to save the marriage? So many questions to be answered.
>
Yes, we have all been to counseling. We have been together for a short while. The first counselor we went to my husband had an attitude of " so what, it's no big deal. I didn't have affairs, I just had one night stands." They all weren't one night stands though. Even if they were that is still cheating.
I went by myself and with the kids for a while. He joined us at a second psycologist, a woman this time. He went in there and said he didn't think we needed to talk about it anymore and that I just needed to get over it. He taped meetings behind her back and threw stuff said in our faces. I told her and she made me search him in her office before meetings. She still though took his side and said if I stayed then the best thing was to not bring it up, believe in him and deal with it myself. I quit going to her. I was seeing a psychiatrist in the same group. He had a fit upon finding this stuff out. My husband also taped him and ticked him off so bad that they ended up in argument over my depression meds. Husband is not supportive in that area. He plans to use this against me in court if I leave him. Oh well.
....and you and your husband separately, if he realizes he has a problem and wants to change to save the marriage. He made a choice to cheat
>
> He wants either to own up to it, and figure out why he did/does this, and whether he cares enough about you and the kids to figure himself out and change. Even if he does ever choose to do this I don't know if it will mattter. It will matter as far as his relationship with our kids but to us, I just don't know. Sometimes too much is just too much.
> > The big question is: What is it you want?>
That is a good question. I don't trust my feelings. I need to find a way to learn to do that. Maybe I'll try the counseling again.
If I could just learn what is emotion and what is true feelings I think it would make things so much clearer. I also feel that maybe this all boils down to fear of change.
Posted by allisonross on December 6, 2005, at 5:14:41
In reply to Re: Affairs, posted by uneeq1 on December 6, 2005, at 4:10:30
yes, I think that would be a good idea. Find a therapist who "gets it." Cheating is NEVER okay. You deserve respect, as all humans dol.
Feelings are FACTS....They are not right or wrong, they just ARE.
It doesn't matter what you think you have done or NOT done in being a wife. No one can force another one to behave in any way.
CHEATING IS A CHOICE, just like all behaviors.
I went into a website called character disorders; there were about 83 of them. I checked off about 79 about my ex.....therapists hold out little, if ANY hope they can change. I did my homework; tons of research on narcissism, abuse, etc.
I am the poster child for fear of change, sweetie: I stayed THIRTY-ONE years; always hoping.
I did tons of research, reading and s elf-talk, and then made the decision to get a divorce. I then e xperienced a kind of abuse I had never heard of:Spiritual Abuse; my church of 31 years voted me out with my name up on a big screen, followed by the words: CONDUCT UNBECOMING A CHILD OF GOD. I then had to fight another kind of abuse....something beautiful came from the ashes: www.churchabusepoetrytherapy.com
I was also published: www.psychiatricjournal.com, entitled: The Transcendent Child on Overcoming Verbal and Spiritual Abuse
I've been counseling abused women for the past 10 years; verbal abuse being my expertise (verbal abuse is rampant in our society, and rarely recognized or noticed.) The book that took me 25 years to find, and I believe should be required reading for everyone on the planet: The Verbally Abusive Relationship by Patricia Evans
I read something that really made an impact on me: "Try to let the side that is tryig to save you.......WIN." I did that. I fought with myself for years about getting a divorce.
None of us deserve to be abused or cheated on. THAT is the bottom line. Fear of change is normal, and I fought it for 31 years.
I would suggest also a wonderful book: Too Good To Leave, Too Bad to Stay by mira Kirschenbaum
I cannot believe what that one therapist said. There are some really bad ones.
Stay in touch; e-mail me if you like: wacalice@aol.com
Hugs n Love, Ally
Posted by jonquiljo on December 6, 2005, at 13:45:08
In reply to Re: Affairs/Fear of Change, posted by allisonross on December 6, 2005, at 5:14:41
Cheating in men can be a form of anger. Personally, I've never done it (cheating) but I've wanted to many times. Not because I've been so attracted to someone else,but because I've been angry at my spouse. The trick is to get angry and not jump someone else's bones.
Is there an underlying cause for anger?
Posted by uneeq1 on December 6, 2005, at 15:17:59
In reply to Re: Affairs/Fear of Change, posted by jonquiljo on December 6, 2005, at 13:45:08
<<anger>>
He is an angry person. I worry about him having a heart attack because he is so extreme on even the tiniest of things. For example, if we don't word things the way he thinks they should be worded or repeat stuff back to him verbatim he has a screaming fit and starts lecturing. There is no such thing as a simple, quick conversation with him. He also, because of his religion (used to me mine as well) believes that the man should be in total control of the home and I should be subservient to him. No freakin way. He doesn't lead with the spirit and this is my life too. I will not spend it feeling or being beneath another human being. Like a popular writing I've seen for years says, "women are taken from adam's rib, ....to be at his side" or something like that. Not in front of or behind, but beside.
I think men and women need to run their homes in partnership, not one spouse above or below the other one. That leads to abuse in many ways.
Posted by allisonross on December 6, 2005, at 15:50:12
In reply to Re: Affairs/Fear of Change, posted by uneeq1 on December 6, 2005, at 15:17:59
> <<anger>>
> I hardly know where to start; I know all about the "religious" stuff (I may have told you, and if so, I apologize for repeating).....I was voted out of my 31-year church membership, because i got a divorceafter 31 years of abuse...www.churchabusepoetrytherapy.com was the result of that debacle. My name was put up on a big screen, followed by the words; CONDUCT UNBECOMING A CHILD OF GOD.
Angry people are very scary people. you CANNOT deal with an irrational person, and an angry person is IRRATIONAL.
Unfortunately the 'church" exacerbates and encourages women to stay trapped in abusive relationships. ic ould write a book on that stuff..
Yes the church stuff leads to abuse, and keeps women trapped. "They' couldn't hold me down. I was always my own person, asking questions, etc.....i stood up (literally) in front of the WHOLE church and read a speech.
They did this to me on my birthday (no less): i said: "Wow, I didn't realize this many people would show up to help me celebrate my birthday!"
They were grim as a heart attack; i was about to be drawn and quartered, and I was the one laughing and making jokes.
I URGE you to get the book that saved my mind, and took me 25 years to find: The Verbally Abusive Relationship by patricia Evans...it should be read by everyone on the planet. Verbal abuse is a global crisis; but no one sees, understands, or recognizes it.
It is soul-murder.
I suggest the book, and then get a therapist who UNDERSTANDS verbal abuse. If they are not specifically trained in it, then you will get even further abused (like that one "therapist" who told you that garbage, etc)......
Most abusers are narcissists (they literally stop maturing at age 11 or 12), so you are LITERALLY dealing with a child in an adult body.
They are full of rage, at needs they believe were unmet as children.
They are extremely jealous and unbelievably terrified---that you might leave them, that is why they try so hard to CONTROL everything
hang in there, sweetie: e-mail me too: wacalice@aol.com
I have had 31 years of experience (and a childhood of the same)
Hugs, Ally
He is not likely to change; you need to get help, and do what is best for you and your children (I know you know this!) Knowledge is power!!! Read everything you can on personality disorders, narcissism, verba; abuse; educate yourself, and then do what you need to. That is what I did.
i was like a one-woman encylopedia/power house, LOL
p> He is an angry person. I worry about him having a heart attack because he is so extreme on even the tiniest of things. For example, if we don't word things the way he thinks they should be worded or repeat stuff back to him verbatim he has a screaming fit and starts lecturing. There is no such thing as a simple, quick conversation with him. He also, because of his religion (used to me mine as well) believes that the man should be in total control of the home and I should be subservient to him. No freakin way. He doesn't lead with the spirit and this is my life too. I will not spend it feeling or being beneath another human being. Like a popular writing I've seen for years says, "women are taken from adam's rib, ....to be at his side" or something like that. Not in front of or behind, but beside.
> I think men and women need to run their homes in partnership, not one spouse above or below the other one. That leads to abuse in many ways.
>
>
Posted by jonquiljo on December 6, 2005, at 22:11:31
In reply to Re: Affairs/Fear of Change, posted by uneeq1 on December 6, 2005, at 15:17:59
No offense, but he sounds like a very spoiled individual. Unfortunately, once they are spoiled like that, they don't consider the feeling of the other person in the relationship. Its all about them. It must really be difficult for you.
This is the end of the thread.
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