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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by gardenergirl on November 16, 2005, at 21:54:16
Okay, here's another issue on my mind.
My sis is getting married in a few weeks. I'm really looking forward to this, and I want this day to be special for her.
But...my uncle who gives (or rather takes) the creepy hugs is coming. I haven't seen him since this summer, when I finally figured out what was so creepy and intrusive about his hugs. First of all, he holds you tight and longer than is necessary. And...(ick!) he smushes your breasts against his chest and then kind of jiggles, so that your breasts jiggle against him. (Ick ick ick ick ick!)
So, I've decided that I don't want to let him do that anymore. But...I don't have regular contact with him, so I haven't had an opportunity to act on this since this summer. And I don't want to make a scene at my sis's wedding.
So, how do I go about protecting myself and setting this boundary?
Do I say something in advance? (by email? by telephone? lol, ask my dad to say something?) Sayt something in the moment and risk a discussion or argument about it, (which likely will be either at the church or at the reception)? Do I just try some physical maneuver to try to deflect him (and if so, any suggestions)? Do I just try to avoid him at all costs? Have my hubby cling to me like a jealous hubby and interfere with any attempt to hug? Kick him in the XXXXX? ;)
I've asked my hubby for advice, but I don't think he really *gets* it. I asked him what he would do if a woman relative pressed her groin against his when hugging, but he said he would just lean into the shoulders and keep space below. That doesn't seem like a good option for me, given anatomical issues.
Ack, this just is driving me batty!
Help!!
gg
Posted by Voce on November 16, 2005, at 21:54:17
In reply to Boundary setting dilemma--Help!, posted by gardenergirl on November 13, 2005, at 22:37:46
ICK ICK ICK.
I guess when I want to avoid a hug from someone I manage to give off an "aura" and it usually works. Can you muster up a glare or an otherwise less-than-thrilled expression for him that may deter him, especially if there are other people around?
Otherwise I would suggest holding your purse or some other object (the punch bowl? j/k) against your chest so that there's really no good way to approach you and your boobs are protected even if he does get a half hearted hug in. You could buy a big purse if you don't have one and just stuff it with something, and keep it handy if needed.
You could also wear wicked high heels and when he hugs you, just grind that heel into his toe, and that would really get him off you, quick, lol. Then just smile sweetly and say "oops sorry!!"
If there are going to be a lot of people there, is it possible to just avoid him and maybe wave at him from across the room (Hi, nice to see you, and now I'm gonna fill-in-the-blank).
Does he do this to every woman or just you?
You could ask your T.....he may have some more creative suggestions.
Posted by crazy teresa on November 16, 2005, at 21:54:17
In reply to Re: Boundary setting dilemma--Help! » gardenergirl, posted by Voce on November 13, 2005, at 22:59:37
I guess screaming, "Don't touch me you dirty bastard!" is out of the question. And maybe you shouldn't stab him in the ribs with a pen knife while his arms are around you.
Can you divert his attention? When he comes toward you, you could fake sneeze and spit into the palm of your hand. When he reaches for you, grab his hand and shake it. Maybe he'll get grossed out and not notice he didn't get a hug.
Posted by daisym on November 16, 2005, at 21:54:17
In reply to Boundary setting dilemma--Help!, posted by gardenergirl on November 13, 2005, at 22:37:46
I'm the queen of "DON'T hug me" -- I stick my hand out quickly when people approach to offer a shake.
So -- if you don't have a dress with spikes -- there are a few maneuvers. I guess I don't see saying anything at this occasion, the last thing your sister would want is a confrontation.
Avoiding is always the best way -- keep sitting down when he approaches -- don't get up and give him the opportunity to hug you. If there is a receiving line and you see him coming, grab the person behind him if you can, while patting him on the shoulder.
You could also have a cold - "I'd hug you but I don't want to give you a germ - I feel a cold coming on."
and I love the jealous husband ploy. I've never thought of that one!
Good luck. And I agree -- ick!
Posted by Emily Elizabeth on November 16, 2005, at 21:54:17
In reply to Boundary setting dilemma--Help!, posted by gardenergirl on November 13, 2005, at 22:37:46
I must admit that my first response was "Kick him in the XXXXX." I think he deserves it, but I supose that would make a scene, huh?
I also think that having your hubby interfere is not a bad option if your hubby is the type that can pull something like that off.
Physical manuver-wise, I was thinking of turning to the side as he moves in to hug you. So that your shoulder hits his chest instead of your boobs. (maybe your hubby can try this out with you to see if it might work.) Depending on his size and the force that he uses, you might be able to control the distance of the hug by making your arms rigid so that he can't pull you in close.
Or, I feel like saying some mildly shaming thing to him might break up the hugging. Like saying loudly when he starts to hug you, "ICK! What did you just eat?! Your breath is NASTY!" Yeah, maybe it is avoidant, but desperate times call for desperate measures.
What is your sense of how he'd react to directly addressing it prior to the wedding? Part of me feels like that would be a good solution in a perfect world (recognizes the seriousness of violating a woman's personal space, calls him out on his bad behavior, etc.) however, it is pretty complicated in real life. What it comes down to is the issue of what will get the job done in the way that is most painless for gg.
I personally like any strategy that causes him embarassment or physical pain, but I may just be feeling protective of you. ;)
Best,
EE
> Do I say something in advance? (by email? by telephone? lol, ask my dad to say something?) Sayt something in the moment and risk a discussion or argument about it, (which likely will be either at the church or at the reception)? Do I just try some physical maneuver to try to deflect him (and if so, any suggestions)? Do I just try to avoid him at all costs? Have my hubby cling to me like a jealous hubby and interfere with any attempt to hug? Kick him in the XXXXX? ;)
>
> I've asked my hubby for advice, but I don't think he really *gets* it. I asked him what he would do if a woman relative pressed her groin against his when hugging, but he said he would just lean into the shoulders and keep space below. That doesn't seem like a good option for me, given anatomical issues.
>
> Ack, this just is driving me batty!
>
> Help!!
>
> gg
Posted by kerria on November 16, 2005, at 21:54:17
In reply to Boundary setting dilemma--Help!, posted by gardenergirl on November 13, 2005, at 22:37:46
Hi Gardenergirl,
If it were me, i'd just run away from the uncle. You can try to put out your hand first. i wouldn't care how ackward it looked to just leave the area. Once a person ever does that, they don't deserve hugs or explanations anymore.
Take care,
kerria
Posted by ghost on November 16, 2005, at 21:54:17
In reply to Boundary setting dilemma--Help!, posted by gardenergirl on November 13, 2005, at 22:37:46
ugh. i DO know what that's like. i have a creepy relative too.
i think you should just avoid hugging him. if he tries maybe you could say "excuse me" and go to the rest room. if he tries AGAIN maybe your hubby could be on the lookout and cling to you (i like that idea!). i think if i were you, i'd try to sidestep him. maybe keep a drink in your hands at all times so you look like you can't hug?
gosh. good luck.
Posted by orchid on November 16, 2005, at 21:54:17
In reply to Boundary setting dilemma--Help!, posted by gardenergirl on November 13, 2005, at 22:37:46
I also think you cannot say anything to him about it - either in advance or during the wedding.
Maybe silently pulling back is the best thing. If you have an option to just shake hands, do it by extending your arms. Or if you have to hug, stand to the side and do a side hug. Or just pretend you hurt your legs or tripped and pull away quickly.
Posted by Tamar on November 16, 2005, at 21:54:17
In reply to Boundary setting dilemma--Help!, posted by gardenergirl on November 13, 2005, at 22:37:46
I remember there was a man at church years ago who kept hugging me in a way I didn't like. Someone suggested that I should look out for him first rather than avoiding him (so that he didn't catch me by surprise) and stand a good distance away and stretch out my arm for a handshake. It worked.
I'm hoping your uncle won't press the point and ask for a hug, but I guess if he does you could tell him you have a cracked rib; it's a common enough injury - you could get one falling off a bike. And there's no cast involved so anyone could have one. (I'm devious, eh?)
Posted by Dinah on November 16, 2005, at 21:54:17
In reply to Boundary setting dilemma--Help!, posted by gardenergirl on November 13, 2005, at 22:37:46
I'd go for the physical avoidance. Maybe stand slightly behind your husband when first meeting him and extend a hand.
A coworker I had dealt with this sort of thing wonderfully. She had a way of jumping and "eeking" with surprise at unwanted touch. Or manage to get her hair caught so that she stepped back, said "ouch" and look injured. Things like that that were more open than the avoidance I used (that didn't always work) but less obvious than making a scene.
I think you probably have to be a good actor though. I never could carry it off.
Posted by happyflower on November 16, 2005, at 21:54:17
In reply to Re: Boundary setting dilemma--Help! » gardenergirl, posted by Dinah on November 14, 2005, at 11:02:04
I think everyone gave ya some great options. Me, well I am an advoider, by nature. I like the shaking hands idea.
I guess I know see another reason most T's don't hug. What if you had someone like your uncle for a client. Ick!
Posted by Shortelise on November 16, 2005, at 21:54:17
In reply to Boundary setting dilemma--Help!, posted by gardenergirl on November 13, 2005, at 22:37:46
You could keep your arms across your chest when he hugs you and not hug him back.
You could straight-arm him to the chest and say "no,Uncle Bob. No hugs today." Remember the "no means no" thing? You could use it as firmly as you might in the backseat of a Thunderbird.
You could straight arm him in the chest, say you're sorry but your immune system is suffering and you just must not get sick.
Who cares if he sees you hugging everyone else. Maybe he'll get the picture. And if he does, and says something, tell him the truth, that the way he hugs you feels however it is it feels to you.
The business I'm in is very kissy huggy, and extremely shallow. I hate it that I am expected to hug everyone, and I just don't do it. I shake hands with people. I do so warmly and with lots of eye contact. But I'm not going to hug people I don't want to hug. Ick, as you say.
Good luck with this gg. It's certainly a delicate matter!
ShortE
Posted by Jen Star on November 16, 2005, at 21:54:18
In reply to Boundary setting dilemma--Help!, posted by gardenergirl on November 13, 2005, at 22:37:46
hi gg,
it IS a tricky matter! And stuff that sounds so good in theory seems to fall to the wayside when it comes to putting it into practice.I like the "one hand across breast to protect them, the other hand stiffly returns the hug" idea, done while you lean in and do sort of an "air kiss" kind of hug. It's an awkward hug, but it prevents the full body contact.
You could also say, "not so tight! not so tight! I can't breathe! hahahah!" and giggle and pull away quickly and then say, "wow, you have a tight grip, Uncle XYZ. Don't break a girl's ribs, hahaha!" And treat it like a big, funny joke. And the next time he zooms in for the kill, you could reference your shared "joke" and pull away quickly before the hug starts and laugh and go, 'hahahaha! Uncle XYZ, no more hugs from YOU! Why, you almost broke my RIBS before! Am I right, people? Jane, doesn't uncle XYZ do that?" and drag other poeple in. That might embarrass him, but it would be done in a SOMEWHAT saving-face kind of way for him.
If you come out and say "pervy" or "uncomfortable" it might make a scene, or he might do the "injured suffering misunderstood martyr" thing, which would suck.
good luck!
j
Posted by All Done on November 16, 2005, at 21:54:18
In reply to Boundary setting dilemma--Help!, posted by gardenergirl on November 13, 2005, at 22:37:46
Hi, gg!
Am I correct in assuming you'll have some flowers that you're carrying? If so, I'd just make sure to have them with you and kind of raise the bouquet when he leans in for a hug. He surely won't squish the flowers.
I suppose I wouldn't say anything before the wedding, but if he happens to catch you again, maybe you should bring it up before the next family function. Then, you can say something about how he hugged you at the wedding and it'll be fresh in his memory. (If you have his email, I'd use it. No sense it making this any more difficult for you than it already is and face-to-face or even phone might be kind of awkward.)
Sorry. Creepy uncle hugs are the worst. :(
(((((gg))))) <---- non-creepy uncle hug
Laurie
Posted by allisonross on November 16, 2005, at 21:54:18
In reply to Boundary setting dilemma--Help!, posted by gardenergirl on November 13, 2005, at 22:37:46
> Hey, gg: Okay, here's another issue on my mind.
>
> My sis is getting married in a few weeks. I'm really looking forward to this, and I want this day to be special for her.
>
> But...my uncle who gives (or rather takes) the creepy hugs is coming. I haven't seen him since this summer, when I finally figured out what was so creepy and intrusive about his hugs. First of all, he holds you tight and longer than is necessary. And...(ick!) he smushes your breasts against his chest and then kind of jiggles, so that your breasts jiggle against him. (Ick ick ick ick ick!)Disgusting! That's not a hug, that's belng molested, under the GUISE of a hug, eeeuuuww.!
>
> So, I've decided that I don't want to let him do that anymore. But...I don't have regular contact with him, so I haven't had an opportunity to act on this since this summer. And I don't want to make a scene at my sis's wedding.
>
> So, how do I go about protecting myself and setting this boundary?What I would do: Stay away from him, if you can. If he comes over to you, either hold your arm out straight to shake his hand, (thereby keeping space between you) or if he ignores that and tries to get closer to give you a hug, step back and simply say nothing, (that probably won't work: too subtle!!), or if you feel you need to say something:
Say, oh, no thanks (or I think I'm contagious, LOL, LOL)
In other words no one has a right to violate your boundaries, and you don't owe anyone any explanations for having them.>
People who violate boundaries .....Don't recognize them...in others. (There is a book called Boundaries by Townsend and Cloud/excellent: I went to one of their seminars...fabulous!)
I believe in being authentic and up front in a polite/refined/classy way, if possible, but it has taken me a lifetime to get where I am, after a lifetime of abuse, and as my t said "you have boundaries all over the place!" So I guess my hard work, worked!
There's lots of good choices you mentioned. By saying something in the moment, do you mean if he does it, then say something? It's too late then. your boundaries have been violated. No one has a right to do that. Like I said, what I think I would do is avoid him if possible, if he comes over to you (repeating myself, LOL), hold your arm out straight to shake his hand
If he moves in, i would step back and say: "If you try to hug me I will yell----WHY ARE YOU TOUCHING MY BREASTS LIKE THAT?
Of course you wouldn't, but that might make him think. He doesn't want to be exposed or embarrased, but he gets away with his icky touching, because ---no one has called him on it.
> Do I say something in advance? (by email? by telephone? lol, ask my dad to say something?) Sayt something in the moment and risk a discussion or argument about it, (which likely will be either at the church or at the reception)? Do I just try some physical maneuver to try to deflect him (and if so, any suggestions)? Do I just try to avoid him at all costs? Have my hubby cling to me like a jealous hubby and interfere with any attempt to hug? Kick him in the XXXXX? ;)
>
> I've asked my hubby for advice, but I don't think he really *gets* it.Guys wouldn't.
I asked him what he would do if a woman relative pressed her groin against his when hugging, but he said he would just lean into the shoulders and keep space below.
Well, it would be too late (LOL) she would have already DONE IT!
That doesn't seem like a good option for me, given anatomical issues.
>
> Ack, this just is driving me batty!
>
> Help!!
>
> gg
Posted by gardenergirl on November 17, 2005, at 8:08:13
In reply to Re: Boundary setting dilemma--Help! » gardenergirl, posted by allisonross on November 15, 2005, at 8:11:46
I didn't realize that I haven't responded to anyone here. How rude of me.
Thanks everyone for all of your suggestions and support. I'll need to go back through your posts before I can reply more.
But I will say that although I feel a lot more prepared to deal with this effectively (thank you!), it's become something of an issue between my husband and me.
I'll post more about that later. (woo hoo, preview of coming attractions!)
Thanks again, everyone. I do appreciate the support. Sorry I haven't been around a lot.
gg
Posted by happyflower on November 17, 2005, at 9:56:24
In reply to Well shoot, posted by gardenergirl on November 17, 2005, at 8:08:13
I would accidently knee his nuts, and say, oh, I am sorry I got a cramp in my leg. LOL I bet he won't hug you that close again.
Posted by allisonross on November 17, 2005, at 10:53:50
In reply to Well shoot, posted by gardenergirl on November 17, 2005, at 8:08:13
> I didn't realize that I haven't responded to anyone here. How rude of me.
(Tongue-in-cheek): yes, I was waiting for a very PERSONAL reply! LOL, LOL
>
> Thanks everyone for all of your suggestions and support. I'll need to go back through your posts before I can reply more.
>
> But I will say that although I feel a lot more prepared to deal with this effectively (thank you!), it's become something of an issue between my husband and me.Wow, now you have ANOTHER issue, gee whiz!
>
> I'll post more about that later. (woo hoo, preview of coming attractions!)I (we I am sure) can hardly wait!! Will there be cartoons first?
Smiles n grins, Ally
>
> Thanks again, everyone. I do appreciate the support. Sorry I haven't been around a lot.
>
> gg
Posted by Jen Star on November 17, 2005, at 17:07:45
In reply to Well shoot, posted by gardenergirl on November 17, 2005, at 8:08:13
hi gg,
I'm sorry if your hubby doesn't "get" this...maybe it's something that guys just might not understand?Perhaps it's b/c guys are more inclined to come right out and say "quit it" if they don't like something, and not give it too much of a 2nd thought. Maybe they just don't always get that it's different for women, who worry about the ramifications and interpretations of every small gesture (sometimes to our detriment!)
I hope the whole event goes OK. Remember that YOU'RE the injured party, not your Uncle (even if he acts suffering-martyr-ish about it.)
One more idea: Make yourself a brooch adorned with cactus spikes or some kind of sharp stuff, a la modern art, and attach it prominently to your bosom when you see dear Uncle approaching. Let him come in for a close hug and the excruciating agony of cactus spike removal later on!
JenStar
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