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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by sunny10 on June 21, 2005, at 13:12:35
I met a girl just a little older than I in the hospital.
We exchanged phone numbers and have spoken often on the phone.
I got a little freaked out when she told me that she has been both a madam and a hooker; that she still has sex for money. And that she plans on going back to hooking in order to dig herself out a a financial hole she is currently in.
I know that I am a naive person. And I don't think poorly of HER for doing those things. She has had her reasons, believe me. But I am very uncomfortable being friends with someone whose life hits so many dark places in our society. It's not just who she is, but whom her "job" invites into her life- and if I am her friend, into my life.
I don't want those "extras" in my life.
How do I discontinue a relationship with a friend that I like? I mean discontinue it gently. I don't want to make her dark times even darker right now. She is a truly great person. I don't want HER involved in what she's doing for her own safety, either, and I've told her so. But how do I tell her that I can't involve myself with her if she continues to do these things without destroying her feelings?
Please help.
Thanks,
sunny
Posted by Tamar on June 21, 2005, at 14:13:21
In reply to need new friend advice, posted by sunny10 on June 21, 2005, at 13:12:35
> I got a little freaked out when she told me that she has been both a madam and a hooker; that she still has sex for money. And that she plans on going back to hooking in order to dig herself out a a financial hole she is currently in.
Hmmm... I had a friend in a similar situation once. She was really screwed up at the time, and having sex for money didn't help! I just kept nagging her about it. But she eventually decided to stop because of an accident involving a split condom. Fortunately her HIV test was negative, but it scared her enough to make her get out. She might not have been doing it as long as your friend though.
> I know that I am a naive person.I don't think that's true! Lacking first hand experience of prostitution doesn't make you naive!
> And I don't think poorly of HER for doing those things. She has had her reasons, believe me. But I am very uncomfortable being friends with someone whose life hits so many dark places in our society. It's not just who she is, but whom her "job" invites into her life- and if I am her friend, into my life.
I wondered about this. Do you mean her clients? Or pimps? Or other prostitutes? I think it's possible to be friends with someone without ever encountering their 'colleagues'. And I suspect her clients and her prostitute friends are probably safe enough, but I'd be extremely wary of any pimps. I've never heard a good word said about pimps.
> I don't want those "extras" in my life.Fair enough.
> How do I discontinue a relationship with a friend that I like? I mean discontinue it gently. I don't want to make her dark times even darker right now. She is a truly great person. I don't want HER involved in what she's doing for her own safety, either, and I've told her so. But how do I tell her that I can't involve myself with her if she continues to do these things without destroying her feelings?
It's hard to say that kind of thing without being brutally honest, but diplomacy is difficult in a situation like this. I think it’s important not to be judgmental – and I’m sure you wouldn’t be – but it’s difficult to make it clear that you’re not judging her if you’re saying that you don’t want to encounter the dark corners of her life choices.
Maybe you could tell her that you know how dangerous her job is and you’re so afraid for her that you don’t have the emotional stamina to go on worrying all the time. It’s not ideal though… I’ll keep thinking about it and if I come up with anything better I’ll let you know.
Posted by sunny10 on June 21, 2005, at 15:00:16
In reply to Re: need new friend advice » sunny10, posted by Tamar on June 21, 2005, at 14:13:21
I know that she uses cell phones that two men have given her.
It makes me nervous that my numbers are stored in them. That two men I don't know (who drink and do drugs, too) have my numbers really bothers me.
Yes, the worrying involved with that kind of friendship is definitely out of the question for me right now. I can't even take care of myself!!
But how to let down gently is the question...
Posted by Tamar on June 21, 2005, at 19:06:25
In reply to Re: any brainstorming would be appreciated » Tamar, posted by sunny10 on June 21, 2005, at 15:00:16
I can see why you're worried about your number being in her phones.
I've been thinking about this some more, and I realised I've never done the letting-down-gently thing. Usually if I don't want to see someone I just don't call them (which is not to be confused with not calling because I'm feeling down or I'm very busy at work or whatever!). Admittedly, I don't very often feel that I want to let a friendship slide.
You do have a lot to deal with at the moment, and maybe it's possible just to let this friendship slide without saying anything about your concerns. It might be more gentle than raising the subject of her 'job'. It's not quite as honest, but maybe it's OK.
It's really a tough call. I hope some other people respond. I think you're right - a bit of brainstorming is called for. The more brains the better!
Posted by Jazzed on June 21, 2005, at 21:48:10
In reply to need new friend advice, posted by sunny10 on June 21, 2005, at 13:12:35
I've been there b4, not with a hooker, but with other friends who lived seedy lives. I did as Tamar said, I just didn't call, and didn't take their calls anymore. Eventually they get the message, usually sooner than later because they don't have the time either, thank goodness! I was put in some uncomfortable spots, which made me feel very depressed, and I needed to get out, to take care of me.
Hope that helps a little,
Jazzy
Posted by sunny10 on June 22, 2005, at 8:02:49
In reply to Re: need new friend advice » sunny10, posted by Jazzed on June 21, 2005, at 21:48:10
without consciously meaning to, I pretty much done what you've both suggested. When she calls, I let a couple of days pass before I call back and let her know that I "just have a minute to chat- I'm rushing on my way" somewhere...Then I let a few days pass before doing the same thing.
She has stopped calling every day, which is good. I am not really that great of a telephone conversationalist anyway. I prefer to write email. On the phone, I am more like a guy. Pick up phone, set time and place to meet, hang up phone... This woman likes to talk for an hour.
The saddest part is that she's really nice. Has a great heart. She is just used to that terrible lifestyle and is finding it hard to climb out of it, monetarily. She is someone I would love to hang out with if she got herself out of that mess. And I HAVE spoken to her about it. She said she was going to take up hooking again in order to build up her nest egg again (to be able to move to a safer neighborhood, to be able to take a lower paying safer job, etc.). I begged her to promise herself that it would remain a means to an end. That she should keep in mind that this should not be her job. That she knows that she has low self-esteem and that this particular lifestyle can only perpetuate her feelings about herself. She agreed with me. But then again, she was enrolled in the AA/NA meetings at the hospital and has already told me she's still drinking. So I'm not sure her agreement with me means anymore than a shallow desire that won't actually be acted upon.
Maybe it's sorting itself out, though. With the fewer phone calls, I mean.
Anyway, thanks for listening and thanks for the suggestions. I really appreciate it,
sunny10
Posted by Tamar on June 22, 2005, at 16:02:15
In reply to Re: so far so good, everyone, posted by sunny10 on June 22, 2005, at 8:02:49
OK, with a bit more information, I'm hearing a few alarm bells...
> She has stopped calling every day,
She called you every day? I have some very close and dear friends with whom I talk perhaps once a fortnight. Heck, I don't even talk to my husband every day. But maybe that's just me.
> She said she was going to take up hooking again in order to build up her nest egg again (to be able to move to a safer neighborhood, to be able to take a lower paying safer job, etc.).I can entirely understand someone hooking to pay a debt or to pay for drugs. But it's harder to understand resorting to prostitution as a means of building a nest egg. It sounds to me like the desperate action of someone who has profoundly low self esteem. I don't mean to be judgmental about it; I just suspect it's not in her best interests.
> But then again, she was enrolled in the AA/NA meetings at the hospital and has already told me she's still drinking.
Well, if I were hooking I'd be drinking too. But unfortunately the two things end up becoming inextricable.
> So I'm not sure her agreement with me means anymore than a shallow desire that won't actually be acted upon.
Sadly, I think you may be right.
> Maybe it's sorting itself out, though. With the fewer phone calls, I mean.
I hope so. I don't want to say anything bad about your friend, but I suspect she may turn out to be too much for you to handle at the moment.
Tamar
Posted by sunny10 on June 23, 2005, at 7:43:18
In reply to Re: so far so good, everyone » sunny10, posted by Tamar on June 22, 2005, at 16:02:15
that's why I'm pulling away. But I just don't want to be in a position where I have to knock her down lower than she already is!
I am an idealist- I just wish she could get the help she needs (she is finally seeing a T) and can stop hurting herself in these ways.
Thanks for all of your input!
Posted by Susan47 on June 25, 2005, at 19:52:04
In reply to Re: I KNOW she's too much for me » Tamar, posted by sunny10 on June 23, 2005, at 7:43:18
It's unfortunate that you let yourself get this close to the new "friend". She must have a great deal of personal magnetism. I've known a few women like that, and I liked them but in the end I don't believe you can trust them, and you cannot have any kind of a good relationship with Anyone you cannot trust. Period.
I've been there, Laurie had the potential to be an incredibly powerful woman. She was strong, and opinionated, and she had so much chutzpah, I can see her face so clearly, she's laughing and her dark brown eyes are smiling, but she's a mess, it's a different pair of boots under the bed every single night, my God she isn't even getting PAID for it, and she should, because these guys treat her like a whore, they use her so badly and she actually wants it that way, she prefers to be loose, it's like she doesn't know anything else. She's always chainsmoking, even as she was breastfeeding her new son, whose father completely ignored their existence, she lit up one after another Rothman's. The little guy came down with pneumonia, and I don't know if, thirty years ago, they'd made the connection, you know, to smoking and lung weakness in infants, but she continued to smoke while she did anything and the little guy almost died, and it didn't change a thing in the way she neglectfully took care of him. She was neglectful of her own self, she wouldn't be any other way with anyone else in her life. I know, because I was the straight friend you could have a laugh with, the one you relied on when the guys went bad, as they always did, the one you dressed alike (!!!) with and went out to the local dance and had the guys Stampeding, actually fighting over you, it was hard to believe, like .. she's the one who taught me to wear makeup to enhance what I had, she's the one who taught me to smoke and to swear and to love certain drugs.
And I still do. But I have no idea whatever happened to Laurie, I really should do the decent thing. I should look her up. But I can't, you know, because I know, or I think I know, what I might find out would be just sad. She'd be different than I remember her, the good feeling about her joyful laugh, .. she didn't have enough of those laughs back then, and I'm so scared to find out she doesn't have them at all, anymore. I just don't really want to know.
I wish you the best, no matter what you decide, sorry for rambling this way. I just kind of went off. Take care, Sunny, let us know how it goes, maybe start by not returning any phone calls no matter what. You don't really have to have any discussion with her, you know, if she's been phoning you every day, you can bet she does this with all her friends, or has at one point or another, and other people get the same thing, she likely burns people out very quickly, and moves through friends, so I don't think you should feel badly, you know? You might tell her though in some way, and that's the hard part, the exact words to use, but tell her you're open to a relationship after she's done some healing and to let you know when she's stronger, because you yourself are very weak right now, and frightened, not trusting yourself, you're too vulnerable to be her friend right now, she needs strong people around her, she needs to find the people who she knows from her own past, who will support her and help her go in the direction she really wants to take. She needs support and friendship from the right people, which is maybe why she's chosen you, because she sees how she would like to be friends with you as well, because she's also attracted to you for friendship and fun, but you're just both not ready for each other. Because you know, a friendship is a Relationship, it really is.
This is the end of the thread.
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