![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 11 to 35 of 43. Go back in thread:
Posted by sunny10 on June 16, 2005, at 7:27:29
In reply to My pleasure » sunny10, posted by TamaraJ on June 15, 2005, at 14:54:46
unfortunately, the alcohol thing DID get put on the filed 302 deposition and is now part of my permanent record!
It makes me so mad.
I guess I have a right to the police report. But, gosh, I am so embarrassed about "assaulting a policewoman" that I'm not sure I can face them at the station... Especially since I STILL can't remember doing it... Maybe I'll ask a female friend to call them to do it- I'm too mbarrassed to even call...
Posted by sunny10 on June 16, 2005, at 7:29:22
In reply to Re: When you suffer from depression, how do you know » sunny10, posted by Damos on June 15, 2005, at 17:42:07
yes, I know I do the ladder thing.
It's really a question of what is my inference and what is real. I truly can't tell the difference anymore.
And that makes me pretty agitated...
Posted by sunny10 on June 16, 2005, at 7:43:49
In reply to Hi Sunny, I'm sorry I haven't been any help lately, posted by Susan47 on June 15, 2005, at 22:24:02
Tamara does have a point about the police...maybe they do take these things as evidence. I thought they just took pictures...wish I HAD been drunk...
As I said to Damos, the worst part of all of this is not being able to tell anymore (with a lot of deductive reasoning) what I am inferring and what is actually real.
That is the worst part about what's happened over the past six months.
To not know how to react; thus being forced to do nothing while things continue to happen TO me. I am no longer living my life. I am trapped on the sidelines, watching myself go through the motions. I got "saved" from escaping this feeling, but the feeling has not gone away. And I am not exactly getting more sane by the day!! More crazy is more like it. It's strange; while I was in the hospital, I was glad that I was "saved"- happy about it, even. Now that I'm out, most of the time I wish I had suceeded.
I'm sorry to hear that you are not doing well either, my love. Mostly I didn't want to contact you while I was down because I didn't want to upset that happy wagon (or at least sane one) you were driving for a while there.
I know that I have missed a lot on the boards. I simply don't have the energy to read through them all.
Feel free to babblemail me if you want to let me know what's been going on with you- but a warning, I can't get to it until tomorrow night.
Dratted "outside email blocker" at work... And I have plans to go out to a movie tonight. I'm going to ask for the key to my Fitness Center back from my SO. I need the exercise (and something to do, mainly... it is hard to sit around hating yourself alone every night).
mmmmmmwwwwwaaaahhhh,
sunny10
Posted by TamaraJ on June 16, 2005, at 14:29:37
In reply to Re: My pleasure, posted by sunny10 on June 16, 2005, at 7:27:29
But, if it was felt that you had an alcohol abuse problem, don't you think that your pdoc would have raised it with you and told you that you had to do a 12 step program or something like that? It is too bad that it is now part of your permanent record. That stinks, especially since you have never abused alcohol.
As for getting the police report, I don't know if they would release it to a friend, but they may release it to your pdoc. If you are comfortable with that, perhaps you pdoc's office could call to get a copy of the report for you. I don't know if that is done, but it might be worth a try.
Tamara
> unfortunately, the alcohol thing DID get put on the filed 302 deposition and is now part of my permanent record!
>
> It makes me so mad.
>
> I guess I have a right to the police report. But, gosh, I am so embarrassed about "assaulting a policewoman" that I'm not sure I can face them at the station... Especially since I STILL can't remember doing it... Maybe I'll ask a female friend to call them to do it- I'm too mbarrassed to even call...
>
Posted by sunny10 on June 17, 2005, at 7:35:10
In reply to Re: My pleasure » sunny10, posted by TamaraJ on June 16, 2005, at 14:29:37
actually, I was just going to have the friend pretend she was me...
Posted by TamaraJ on June 17, 2005, at 8:13:34
In reply to Re: My pleasure » TamaraJ, posted by sunny10 on June 17, 2005, at 7:35:10
After I posted, I had a d'oh moment, and realized that that was what you were probably thinking of doing :-)
Posted by Susan47 on June 18, 2005, at 1:03:14
In reply to Re: I missed you, but I understand completely » Susan47, posted by sunny10 on June 16, 2005, at 7:43:49
Thank you for posting to me, sweetie. I understand your disconnections. I hope you find peace within your mind, the wonderful peace of just being able to be yourself, part of the universe, full of life and love for Sunny.
Posted by Damos on June 19, 2005, at 17:48:32
In reply to Re: When you suffer from depression, how do you know » Damos, posted by sunny10 on June 16, 2005, at 7:29:22
I'd give the hole where my soul should be to know how to help you. I really would, cause seeing you stuggling hurts.
I don't know what to say other than that I eased those I felt I couldn't trust out of my life over time and it was hard. These were the ones whose presence just made things harder because even when things were good I just second and third guessed everything because I was just waiting for the next bad thing to happen with them. You know what I mean, Even though I loved them dearly and wanted to believe that they loved me, I always had the feeling that the next dose of pain was only a moment away.
On the other side of the coin I consiously chose to trust certain others more - too much if anything, because I was confident that they wouldn't hurt me deliberately and had proven to be sincerely sorry if they did by accident.
Sometimes I carried a friend whos judgement I value with me in my head and just asked myself how they would read a certain situation. Another part was learning to "play each ball on its merits". In other words forcing myself to focus totally just on this instance right now as it is. Not as the last one was or what I think might be coming next but this moment here now. I actually caught myself saying out loud once when I was feeling a little uncomfortable and starting to get ahead of myself, "Just this, here now."
But always, always Sunny dearest ensure that you are physically safe or simply not "at risk" in situations with those that have proven untrustworthy in the past.
Posted by sunny10 on June 20, 2005, at 8:26:43
In reply to Re: When you suffer from depression, how do you know, posted by Damos on June 19, 2005, at 17:48:32
like you are assuming that my inferences can be trusted.
The issue here is that I'm really not sure if they should be trusted.
I am safe. At least from without. Within me is a vast river of chaos and confusion. I know that I am more insecure right now than I have ever been. And I fear that I am being overly vigilant- assuming people are going to hurt me before they ever do. Assuming that people are lying to me. But the truth is, I still cannot remember anything for those two days. I do not know what was said to me, do not know what I said to anyone. It feels kind of like that black hole is growing instead of shrinking in my mind.
My SO talked to me on Saturday night about this stuff, finally. He said that he is still "in this room talking with you like this" because he loves me and still wants a future with me. He agreed with my fear that he would use this suicide attempt to leave me; he said it crossed his mind, but that he realized two things. One is that he loves me and would hate himself for not giving us another chance. And two, he understands that when I am in the depths of depression that I am really not myself. He agrees that I should stay on the meds now- that he understands, in the past, my depressive episodes only struck about every seven years but now they are coming faster and I need the meds to keep them at bay. He said that he is a little afraid to trust in the future, but he now understands how difficult it is for me to believe him sometimes because he lied to me in the past. That we each have to deal with these issues now. When I looked puzzled at the comparison, he said that he didn't distrust ME, he mistrusted the depression and wanted me to promise him that I would stay on the meds. But the suicide attempt did scare him, he said. He also said that although he was already ashamed with himself for letting an argument turn physical, he was really shook up when he thought I might die. He said he realized that he didn't want to live without me and that if he had actually physically hurt me instead of scaring me to death, he would never be able to forgive himself. But that he is still ashamed of scaring me.
He also said that he strongly believes that since we made it through all of this crap, nothing can tear us apart. That we've managed to learn more about each other in two years than most people learn about each other in ten years. That we have a great future ahead of us. That I need to relax and just "be", so that the future can happen. And that he just wanted to be sure that I still wanted the same things.
The only time I interrupted him is when he said that he was glad that I've decided to let him decide when he'll stop using coke. Because he said, "I want to be able to tell you that I went to the casinos with the guys last Friday night and we had some coke". I stopped him and said that I would prefer to know before he went off to the casinos, rather than after. I told him that I would feel more comfortable if I knew what he was doing with his buddies because I AM very insecure rght now. I don't want to be sitting at home alone wondering what he is doing all the time. I told him that he is lucky that all of my friends are married with children (or in one case not married with child!), because he KNOWS that I am not out at strip clubs, or dating other people, or putting myself in any danger (drinking and driving, for instance). I don't have any of these assurances at all. He has single and unhappily married buddies along with happily married friends. And those buddies are always looking to "get some" or just plain "get drunk and stoned". So I DO have things to worry about. And he agreed that I would know that he was GOING, ahead of time, but that even he wouldn't know ahead of time if he was going to decide to use or continue to say no.
He told me that I have to trust him. That he may get drunk, and he may do some drugs "socially", but he is not interested in other women. That he knows how lucky he is to have me. That he simply doesn't even have the time or energy to cheat on me, anyway. But this is the spot that is tricky for me, inference-wise. Because almost all men I have been involved with have cheated on me. And because he HAS lied to me in the past. And he admits this, and he reluctantly had to agree that he is going to have to put up with my doubts and insecurities because he caused them himself by lying to me before, about drugs. He says that he understands that I am not just worried about him lying about drugs, but that it colors everything he says. He wants me to give him a second (or third, he said) chance. He is giving me a second chance to keep taking my meds and stop scaring him to death, he said. I said that I, too, was in the room still talking with him because I was giving him a second chance.
He apparently has done some reading, because he even asked "if the drugs stop working for you, are there any clues I should look for to make sure this doesn't happen again?". I told him that I get extremely anxious about everything and paranoid, too. Plus, I can only see the negative side of things, 'cause that's what the disease does. Of course, I had to explain to him that in this case, he couldn't have seen it coming because there actually WERE things for me to be anxious and paranoid about, and that my dad just died, and we just went through a merger at work... This time was more situational stressors bringing on the depression, rather than the chemicals simply malfuntioning in my brain. But the end result is the same, be it nurture or nature. My brain is simply not equipped to deal with that many stressors at once without medications anymore, I've found out.
So, you see, it's not as simple as just cutting people out of my life as you posted. In order to cut out the person I MOST distrust, well, I'd have to cut out ME.
I distrust myself the most. I think that I am worhtless, in the end, which is why I am so insecure in love relationships. I think that every other woman is better than me. I think that the man I love will ultimately discover that I am a fraud. A person pretending to be as good as everyone else. And in the end, my paranoia usually chases them away, making it a self-fulfilling prophecy.
I no longer want to be right about this, though. I want to believe that I am the perfect woman for him. In the past, I was so afraid of being hurt by someone else, that I wound up hurting myself instead- by chasing them away. But I was always "right"- they were going to leave me.
I don't want to be right. I don't want to lose him. He understands me better than anyone else. He knows what I am thinking now. And although it often makes him mad that I am having a hard time trusting him, he knows that I have a valid reason- one that he is ashamed of. And he knows that he has to deal with it because he caused it.
And the weirdness with my other friends? It is still there. But I am so overcome with embarrassment and shame for succumbing to my "Mr. Hyde", that it is hard for me to tell whether they are uncomfortable around me because of what happened, or are they just reacting to how I act and sound because of my own shame. Yes, they ARE acting strangely, and I am afraid they are not being completely honest with me. But is it because of THEIR feelings, or mine?
You see, it's not quite so simple...
Posted by Damos on June 20, 2005, at 18:18:39
In reply to Re: It sounds (long) » Damos, posted by sunny10 on June 20, 2005, at 8:26:43
Sunny I'm really sorry if I made it sound as though I thought it was simple. It's not, it's so far from simple it's impossible to imagine. It's also impossible for me to imagine what you're going through right now.
In my case the person I had to ease out of my life was the woman I lost a child with. The person to this day who knows me better than anyone. Who I loved and still love more than I can say. But I had no choice. It took me 20 years to do it but I did eventually. How much does this person effect me? Well she called last Thursday out of the blue after 6 mths of complete silence. We spoke for over an hour and she in effect asked me to do my "all the king's horses and all the king's men" act on her life again, and then I spent the rest of the day throwing up and crying pretty regularly from the stress and tension that it caused. She never harmed me physically but did an awful lot of emotional damage. Like you I never knew what was true or not and also knew that I had been lied to and manipulated. I could never get 'balanced' as long as this person was around (obviously still can't). The messages were always so mixed up and then my mental state just spun them all out of control. I also used to hear about everything she did after it had happened, after I had sat at home all weekend wondering why I hadn't heard from her. Emotional and spiritual safety is as important to people like us as physical safety.
Believe me Sunny I kinda have a sense for where you are right now. I feel more insecure than I ever have and emptier than I have for a very long time and I too can see the cycles of my major episodes shortening and it scares the hell out of me. Used to be 5-7 years and is now around 3. Again I'm just hoping this one is more situational than the others and will pass - eventually.
Sunny I cannot and will not judge you for wanting to be with your SO, or judge him. I can only speak my truth and try to help and support you however I can.
Your comments about You being the person you trust least rang true for me too. If I could be rid of me most of my troubles would've been over long ago. Alex actually said to me yesterday that I had the lowest self esteem of anyone she knew, so I can identify with what you said about yourself.
Three questions:
Are you competent? Yes, you've survived all that has happened to you. Yes, you manage to hold down a job. Yes, you have raised a child. Yes, you responded to the 'holiday incident' so remarkably and got yourself sorted. Yes, you are questioning your own thinking and actions because you believe they are not as effective as they could be. Yes, because you take responsibility for your own life.
Are you a good person? Yes, no matter what you are going through you reach out to people here and do everything you can to help and support them. Yes, because you are kind and caring. Yes, because I don't believe you ever mean to hurt anyone. Yes, because I believe there is so much that is good about you that I don't get to see - I can feel it.
Are you worthy of love? Yes! More than you know or will probably ever accept. Yes!
A lot of what I hear you expressing sound like identity issues and given what I understand about your life that makes perfect sense. The questions above are identity questions. When we doubt our own identity we start to interpret everything that happens in relation to our identity. I still struggle with this badly. I loose sight of my identity issues and then use 'all-or-nothing' thinking. The call I spoke about above is a classic example and the after effects are what I describe as an identity quake.
So where do you start unravelling the anxiety and fearfulness around this? Okay, first you need to start looking for patterns in what tends to knock you off balance in conversation and social situations. Second, you need to look at what about your identity feels at risk here. what it means to you. How would it feel if what you fear were true. This is tough make no mistake and raises some ugly questions and might be something you want to do with your T as they are way more capable of helping you through this than me. For me there were answers like: What if they reject me, What if they laugh, etc.
The next bit's just as tough. Once you've identified the identity triggers you need to 'complexify' your self-image. That means moving away from "I am perfect" and "I am worthless", because they are false choices and getting a clearer picture of what is actually true about you. Like the rest of us your true picture is a complex mix of good and bad, wise and unwise, etc, etc. Nobody is absolutely perfect or totally worthless (well, except me). You are never always anything - except Sunny. by making your image more complex it allows you to feel good about many things and also ambivalent or regretful about others because life is too complex for any reasonable person to feel otherwise. Well that's the theory anyway.
I remember a story about a martial arts master and his student. The student said: "Master, you never loose your balance." The Master replied: "I loose my balance often, my skill lies in my ability to regain it."
Do your friends act weird around you. I reckon there's a pretty good chance they do, because they don't know how to act right now and are probably afraid of how every word and action is going to be taken and interpreted but are afraid to say they are afraid and unsure because they're afraid of upsetting or worrying you. So the answer to your question is both.
The way I started identifying what was going on in my head was using a sheet of paper with a line drawn down the middle to record the left and right hand conversations. The left hand column was what was said, done, actually happened, and the right hand side was what I was actually thinking at the time. I'll repeat it again. I still have real trouble maintaining any sort of identity for any length of time, but I am better at identifying why I'm thinking the way I am.
I so want to help you get through this Sunny and I really hope your SO is the one and that things do start getting better for you real soon. Lord knows you've been through enough for several lifetimes.
Posted by Damos on June 20, 2005, at 19:21:27
In reply to Re: It sounds (long) » Damos, posted by sunny10 on June 20, 2005, at 8:26:43
Posted by sunny10 on June 21, 2005, at 7:51:44
In reply to Sorry (very long) » sunny10, posted by Damos on June 20, 2005, at 18:18:39
I can see myself in everything you wrote. How old are you? I'm wondering because my cycles used to be 5-7 years apart, too. I think we are so alike that it's a little scary sometimes.
We even react the same way (nausea and vomiting- gee, do you have irritable bowel syndrome, too?) to the stresses of wanting to help someone we love and knowing that it will be too hard on us to do so because they will hurt us while we are helping them.
There really is no need for the lists in my case. It is quite pathetic, but I know WHY I am the way I am. I just can't seem to learn to think differently with all of the knowledge that I HAVE actually proven myself to not be worthless. I cannot seem to mesh logical thinking with emotional thinking. I know this is the problem. I know that I have not forgiven my mother for her harsh treatment of me. I have not been able to forgive myself for putting up with that harsh treatment. And I know that I have incorporated my harsh mother as my inner critic. I just don't know how to get rid of this baggage. I've been to four or five different T's. They have all given me the attitude of "just do it. You know what the issues are, so just get over it and teach yourself to think differently." As if I have the tools necessary to be able to do such things. No one has taken the time to actually teach me HOW. If I could "just do it", I would have been "cured" long ago- at least in terms of the nurture side of depression. And I think that I wouldn't have to rely on brain chemicals as much if I didn't get so upset over things to begin with- no shortage of serotonin or dopamine (or faulty receptors- as they are not sure which is the answer) if I didn't have to use so much of them to be stable. So maybe the nature side of depression would be "cured", too.
I have not spoken to my mother in twenty years. I have found that it is impossible to forgive someone who refuses to admit to any wrongdoings.
And it is wrong to let your child know since birth how unwanted they were. How their godmother saved their life by stopping the mother from going through with an abortion. For letting them know that they are despised for being the reason that a fiance ran away when the man found out the mother was pregnant. That it is the child's fault that the mother is alone and sad- just by being alive. No grade could ever be good enough. No activity could ever be quiet enough to allow the child to go unnoticed and unberated. Hugs and kisses only happened in front of others- never in the home. The child learned to pretend everything was normal in public while everything was in tatters inside.
My mother understands now that she suffers from depression. I know because she sent a book about depression to me (as a Christmas gift) through my aunt and cousin one year saying that it helped her. The premise of the whole book was to forget the past and move on as if it never happened. That is what she has decided to do. Which would be fine except that her depression destroyed the lives of two children (and the third, my brother, is so guarded that his wife has a hard time getting in- so you could say three children).
Even in AA and NA, you have to make amends to those you've harmed during your "sick days".
I know I'm supposed to decide not to care whether I ever have her approval or her request for forgiveness. I know that I cannot "change" another person, nor should I wait around for them to change on their own. I can, logically, not care. I've logically not cared for twenty years. But I know that my inferences are those of a wounded little girl. I know that every "mean-sounding" comment is my father not sticking around to ever know me; is my mother berating me and never loving me. It just evolved into every man that ever hurt me, et cetera. But I know where it starts.
I just can't seem to make it stop.
Posted by Damos on June 21, 2005, at 21:47:27
In reply to Re: you never talk out of your *ss » Damos, posted by sunny10 on June 21, 2005, at 7:51:44
Sorry Sunny,
Just spent 90mins replying to you and my ISP crashed and it's all gone. Will try again later if I can.
BTW I am 41 in August around the time you were going to go into hospital from memory.
Thanks for all that you share with me and for being my friend. It means a lot.
Posted by Susan47 on June 21, 2005, at 22:36:00
In reply to Re: you never talk out of your *ss » Damos, posted by sunny10 on June 21, 2005, at 7:51:44
Your story is familiar to me.
Wish it weren't, but maybe for a reason, it is.
Because baby, I'm here to tell you that YES you can get to the other side, and it's like nothing you imagined, because you can't imagine it, it's out of your experience. But you Will get to know, and love and trust yourself (kind of like me most days, now). I did it with meds and self-medication still, but I'm going to beat that, too.
Because I beat the monster inside myself.
And it was just a little green frog.
Sitting in there, croaking away, going, Kiss Me, Kiss Me, Kiss Me ...
and I did, and the frog disappeared,
and I had myself there, Whole for the first time, absolutely complete and, for a second, absolutely beautiful.
That was the gift.. that second. Y'know the strange thing? It feels like a second but it was actually a couple of years.
Keep working, keep up therapy, keep up your meds and keeping talkin' here baby, 'cause it's Great Satisfaction ... sincerely, lovingly, and just a little bit tired and maybe more than a titch feeling floating .. (oi) Susan.
Posted by sunny10 on June 22, 2005, at 7:26:44
In reply to Thanks » sunny10, posted by Damos on June 21, 2005, at 21:47:27
oh goodness, I did that last weekend... spent an enormous amount of time writing an email to my SO's mom (who I knew before I even knew my SO)- being careful to weigh each and every word... Then the phone rang and I answered it, not knowing that my ISP was going to time me out!
I lost the whole thing, too, though it taught me to highlight and copy what I'm doing before I answer the phone next time!!!!
I never did actually get around to re-writing that email... Guess I second guessed myself and decided she wasn't ready to hear the truth, anyway. Must have been fate in my case...
I treasure you also, Damos. Wish I was there...well, ok, wish I was someone else and I was there!
Posted by sunny10 on June 22, 2005, at 7:39:18
In reply to Re: you never talk out of your *ss » sunny10, posted by Susan47 on June 21, 2005, at 22:36:00
I am sticking with the therapy and meds. Wish I wasn't too scared to self-medicate-- maybe a relief from fear would actually be a good thing( ! )
I had a session yesterday. I was anxious and weepy and we talked about what we need to work on to get me past this stuff. But most importantly, when I asked her for practical exercises I could try to get over the anxiety, she told me there are such things, but that I needed to experience this and get through this right now. That I was actually far too anxious to learn the exercises and that NOT be able to do them would be too frustrating for me at the moment. She offered an additional phone session instead "because I can see that you are not in a good place right now". I was flabbergasted. No T has ever been so understanding and willing to allow me to lean on them for support before. So, of course, I stuttered and said that I couldn't imagine what I would say in another session that I hadn't already covered in this session. She told me that I didn't have to say anything different. That she wanted me to know that she would be there just to support me if I wanted to rehash it again, or if I just wanted to check in so I knew I wasn't alone while getting through this. I agreed to call if I felt it would help at the time.
Wow. Maybe I finally found a T that can help.
And although I still feel very anxious and afraid, there is a small blossom of hope that this time could be different.
Maybe I can get down to my "frog to kiss" this time...
The prospect is staggering. A little scary ('cause everyone who gets something out of therapy says it's painful), but also hopeful.
I sent you a piece of snail mail yesterday. And I didn't say the same thing!!!
Thanks for your support, too, Susan. Don't know what I'd do without you.
MWAH
sunny10
Posted by Damos on June 22, 2005, at 17:55:26
In reply to Re: you never talk out of your *ss » Damos, posted by sunny10 on June 21, 2005, at 7:51:44
Okay. Take 2.
Firstly I haven't ever given irritable bowel sydndrome a though before, but now that you've mentioned it I think you might be onto something. Hmm.
Funny you know, I've never done the throwing up thing before. I think it was the fact that I was really worried she might hurt herself again like she has in the past. But good news, there was an email this morning to say she saw a dr on Friday and was diagnosed with Clinical Depression and that she also was referred to and saw a T on Friday and Monday. PHEW!!!!! I guess my reaction was also from pushing down all my emotions and stuff while we talked about her getting help. That's what a lot of people don't see. That while I can be calm and in control in situations like this when I have to be, that it takes a huge toll on me afterwards. Whether I like it or not I cannot stop loving and caring about this person.
Sunny, there is nothing to forgive yourself for. You were a kid, just a kid.
Wow, meshing logical and emotional thinking. Is that even possible?
My old man is my internal critic and I agree with what you said about T's (though it sounds like you might have actually found one who can really help you), you can't just do it. Especially when your in a bad place already, where just getting throught the day takes everything you've got. Doesn't happen.
What I've focused on is just recognising my thinking patterns and acknowledging them and making a conscious decision not to run that script. This can often take the form of a verbalised discussion between the competing aspects of myself. I dunno but it's like having all the sides of stuff out there yets me integrate it better into the choice I actually make, as apposed to kinda denying that there's all this internal conflict going on. More often than not it's all just argued out silently in my head. "Gotta go to the bathroom" or "Gotta get a glass of water" works well to give you the time to run all the scripts before responding unconsciously to your usual one. I don't have any real tools that I use or have ever been taught. I'm just slowly learning to recognise the scripting that gets me into trouble, acknowledge it and consciously choose another. Still get caught out a lot but I'm trying.
Sunny, as I kinda hinted at in talking about my friend, I don't think 'not caring' is possible for people like us. I really don't. Worse still, I think that trying not to care robs us of so much energy that we need to use on other things.
You've been through so very much, and I'm really sorry and honestly the hardest thing is working out how to stop the past robbing us of our futures. Again in my own case I'm now able to recognise my father's script and acknowledge it and choose another (sometimes). Like I'll find myself saying stuff and thinking in a certain way and when I recognise it I say to myself; "Thanks for your input dad, but I've got this covered okay." and stuff like that. It's like it triggers my brain to stop that script and give me a choice to play another one or better yet write a new one. So maybe yours would be something like; "Wait a minute you're not my mum/dad, and I'm not that wounded child anymore, I can work this out." Dunno, just a thought. I really think the trick is in recognising the ineffective pattern of thought. You don't have to be reactive. There is a moment of choice between stimulus and response that humans have, and it gives us the freedom to choose our response based on values using our self awareness, imagination, conscience and independent will. Realisation of the existence of this moment of choice is a huge step in itself, consciously choosing our response is another biggy.
I'm sure this isn't all or exactly what was lost but I hope it helps a little. Gotta go.
Treasure you too.
(((((Sunny10)))))
Posted by sunny10 on June 23, 2005, at 7:40:24
In reply to Trying Again » sunny10, posted by Damos on June 22, 2005, at 17:55:26
I need to get out of panic mode first, so I can slow down long enough to figure out WHAT I'm thinking before I react.
I've only gotten to the stage where I recognize it later...
Posted by Damos on June 23, 2005, at 17:43:02
In reply to Re: Trying Again » Damos, posted by sunny10 on June 23, 2005, at 7:40:24
Sunny, I know this is gonna sound stupid but there is a Bach Flower Remedy specifically for this type of thing. It is called Rescue Remedy and it works it really does, I've used it and so has my puppy dog. She gets panicked by fireworks and thunderstorms and a few drops of this stuff really settles her down. I used it before a major presentation and it was amazing. You can get it in a spray or drops that you place under your tongue. I know others who use it too to help them cope with stressful events. Might be worth a try. You've probably been given all sorts of tools to cope with the panic and I'm not sure I can be much help here as I do it silently on the inside at the time and suffer the physical consequences later. One thing I do do though when I feel the first signs coming on is to become aware of the end of my nose and then of the feeling of my breath as I draw it deep down into my abdomen and slowly release it imagining the tension flowing out with it. I usually try 5 breaths. One thing about panic is that I know in my case I can feel the physical symptoms long before the thinking goes all askew, and if I am able to begin to observe the physical symptons and acknowledge them as they arise I seem to cope better than when I go "Sh*t panic!!!". These things I am rleiably told are the beginnings of self awareness, the ability to passivley observe ourselves (self, self, selves would be too much to cope with).
Posted by sunny10 on June 24, 2005, at 8:18:02
In reply to Re: Trying Again » sunny10, posted by Damos on June 23, 2005, at 17:43:02
I haven't been aware of physical symptoms until later. It happens mostly at night when I am trying to fall asleep.
My mind starts thinking negative things and I try really hard to think of other things (my "safe place" is a beach) and do the breathing thing, but the thoughts just keep whirling. They get more and more negative and I am awake half the night.
It usually happens on nights that I am alone (literally or figuratively), reading my book or watching tv until bed. Then as soon as my mind is not otherwise engaged, it starts this over-analyzing, over-thinking crap. If some of the thoughts were positive, I would think that this is my way of weighing situations. But all of the thoughts are negative and I know that it is depression talking (well, I know that AFTER the fact. While it is happening, it feels very real and the horror gives me my irritable bowel syndrome symptoms. And then it is the thoughts AND the trips to the bathroom keeping me awake at night).
Luckily, last night my cousin and her friend took me out to dinner as a belated b-day present. It was nice, and I slept well.
But I need to learn to be alone without assuming that I'll always be alone. That's the thought that keeps me up at night. That's what's under all of the negative thinking. It is all a manifestation of my fear of abandonment.
I wish that knowing that meant that it didn't happen anymore. But knowing doesn't seem to help at all.
So if my mind starts getting the best of me, this Bach Flower Remedy would help? Where would I look for it? I've never heard of it before...
Posted by Susan47 on June 25, 2005, at 19:11:34
In reply to Re: I am trying » Susan47, posted by sunny10 on June 22, 2005, at 7:39:18
For me, being afraid to self-medicate ceased to be an issue, after the guilt disappeared. After I had it more in control. I don't know, maybe that's an illusion. But if the illusion of having it under control includes doing well in my life, and being happy, and making a lot of friends and keeping them, then it's not a bad one, and I really don't have to be afraid.
I think I'm kind of lucky. For now. The last three weeks have been good ones, may they continue onward, moving forward. You'll get there. You will.
Posted by Susan47 on June 25, 2005, at 19:24:55
In reply to Re: I am trying » Susan47, posted by sunny10 on June 22, 2005, at 7:39:18
Wow. I So Love snailmail. Your new therapist sounds excellent, so far. Wonderful, wonderful for you, Sunny.. take her caring and apply it liberally to your soul .. don't forget the application, it's so so important. Words are one thing, theory has its own shelf life... action is reality, and you have to take what your therapist gives you and use it, and not just comfort yourself, but learn about your true, beautiful nature.. a therapist who's able reflect that sense of worth back to the client, is really valuable. And your job is to be open and receptive to it. And also to make sure you trust her, but not to the point of putting yourself at risk. Whew. Life. I hope I get it right.
How have your dreams been lately? I ask only because it's at the forefront of my mind, that last night I had another House dream, but the house was beautiful, it was cleaned up from the last time I was in it. Everything's been renovated, and it's very elegant and sophisticated, although a tad dark. And the nicest rooms aren't being used, they're closed off by some sort of glass wall. My mother's there, and she's gesturing to our guests, inviting them to look at the rooms, see how they're renovated so well, now? And We're not using them yet ... but I can't figure out why on earth we wouldn't, except that there's something.. cold, and dark, and very masculine, about that part of the House. It's like paradise, in a way, looking at that part and wanting to be in there, because there's a bar, you know, with barstools, and you just want to fill the room with people and Entertain, Yes, and be free, and funny, and fun, really getting into people's heads and enjoying everything. I'm in some kind of nirvana-type headspace today. I sat and watched a cat dozing in shade, and I went over and had a bit of a talk with Cat,
Posted by Damos on June 25, 2005, at 23:50:59
In reply to Re: Trying Again » Damos, posted by sunny10 on June 24, 2005, at 8:18:02
Hippo birdy two ewe
Hippo birdy two ewe
Hippo birdy, hippo birdy
Hippo birdy two ewe.Hip, hip, HOORAY!!!!!!!!!
Hip, hip, HOORAY!!!!!!!!!Happy birthday Sunny. What day was it, Wednesday, the 22nd? It's my roomy's today. And House starts down here tonight. You and Ana love it right?
Now let me see. I got my Rescue Remedy at the Chemist (drug store), but most health food type places should have it. Maybe someone over on Alernative or Health would know where in Philly you can get it. You can look it up on the net nd read about it and see what you think. It's probably only US$10. In my case and puppy's it just takes that tense and anxious edge off
Ah negative thoughts now there's something I'm familiar with. It really sucks that they're ruining your sleep and causing tummy troube too. I'm actually into day three of obsessing over a work arguement I had on Friday morning. GRRRRRRR. Lost two nights sleep to it so far. Unlike me to stay so wound up over something so unimportant.
Just a thought, maybe you could get a guided meditation CD or something to help get you off to sleep. I used to use them a lot years ago for all sorts of reasons. But then again I also used to spend heaps of time in a float tank (he thing William Hurt used in Altered States) bak then too.
Another thought, basic Tai Chi exercises like those of Qigong (Chee Goong)are really great for stilling the mind and integrating mind and body. I quite oftn get up at night and do a few if I'm feeling disturbed. Okay, more disturbed than normal.
So how as you're birthday dinner?
My roomy's gone away with her sister for a week so I'm on my larry lonesome for a week. YAY!!! Peace and quiet just me and puppy magee.
Take care Sunny. I just know you're gonna get there. Hope you got some good pressies for your birthday.
Big birthday hug to ya ((((((((((Sunny10))))))))))
Posted by anastasia56 on June 26, 2005, at 1:46:17
In reply to Re: Trying Again » sunny10, posted by Damos on June 25, 2005, at 23:50:59
yea damos! you sound great. Have a fun time watching House, it's one of the best. Hugs to Baby Puppy.
ana
Posted by Damos on June 27, 2005, at 1:17:15
In reply to Re: Trying Again » Damos, posted by sunny10 on June 24, 2005, at 8:18:02
Just found the box it came in and this is what it says:
Helps you cope in balancing life's ups and downs.
Assists the return to a more positive outlook when you need comfort and reassurance.
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