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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by gardenergirl on May 6, 2005, at 22:54:34
The poor dear. He was upset with himself earlier because he isn't able to "motivate me" out of my depression. I've tried to explain. He's such a bootstrapper kind of guy.
Recently when I was very depressed, very upset, and he asked how he could help, I told him he could help by getting counseling himself so that he could have support for this. I can't support him in dealing with me when I'm depresesd. He agreed.
So tonight I asked him if he had given that any more thought. Nope. Um, have you thought about it at all? Um, no. I forgot about it completely.
Thank you very much.
gg
Posted by TamaraJ on May 7, 2005, at 17:13:34
In reply to Grrrrrrrrr My hubby does not get depression, posted by gardenergirl on May 6, 2005, at 22:54:34
((((GG)))))
Grrrrrrrr is right. Until someone has actually experienced it themselves, they just can't really get how debilitating and discouraging it can be for the sufferer. If he is putting off pursuing your suggestion, perhaps you could pick up a book on depression from the library, maybe even "The Noonday Demon". I have never read it, but have heard it is quite good at explaining depression.
I hope the cloud starts lifiting and you start feeling better very, very soon. My thoughts are with you gg. Take good care of you.
Tamara
Posted by Phillipa on May 7, 2005, at 18:57:28
In reply to Re: Grrrrrrrrr My hubby does not get depression » gardenergirl, posted by TamaraJ on May 7, 2005, at 17:13:34
Gotta walk the walk to understand depression. When I worked in psych none of the staff understood what drove some to desperate acts. Except the ones who were themselves on anti-depressants. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by gardenergirl on May 7, 2005, at 19:36:53
In reply to Re: Grrrrrrrrr My hubby does not get depression » gardenergirl, posted by TamaraJ on May 7, 2005, at 17:13:34
That's a good idea about a book. He is quite a reader. My sister actually recommended that idea, too. I wound up pouring my heart out to her on the phone today. I'm sure she was quite shocked, because I never talk to her about my marriage.
And she is getting married this fall. I hope I didn't scare her off. But she sounded okay, and boy was it good to share that with her.
I'll look for books. I haven't read "Noonday Demon" either, but he knows Andrew Solomon from NPR, so that might be a very good choice.
Thanks,
gg
Posted by gardenergirl on May 7, 2005, at 19:38:14
In reply to Re: Grrrrrrrrr My hubby does not get depression, posted by Phillipa on May 7, 2005, at 18:57:28
Hi Phillipa,
I feel the same way. Sometimes I think that might be the meaning of my depression for me...to help me understand and empathize with my clients better.Thanks for your input. You are always so supportive.
gg
Posted by TofuEmmy on May 7, 2005, at 21:53:36
In reply to Re: Grrrrrrrrr My hubby does not get depression » Phillipa, posted by gardenergirl on May 7, 2005, at 19:38:14
I do SO wonder what the impact is on marriage when one spouse enters therapy, and the other does not. This one person has learned to communicate on a deeply emotional level with another person, but that person is not their spouse.
Of course, you know I'm familiar with this problem. So we learn to talk, vent, emote...but who can we talk to? Our T, or this emotional wall, or emtional infant, or whatever we have at home. How can this guy, our husband, ever get it? unless he has been through this cathartic process, how do we NOT lose them emotionally?
Oh gg, I dunno. This whole topic overwhelms me. I should not have felt closer to my T than my spouse, but I did. That just can't be healthy, can it?
em
Posted by Phillipa on May 7, 2005, at 22:28:40
In reply to The affect of therapy on marriage » gardenergirl, posted by TofuEmmy on May 7, 2005, at 21:53:36
Do you remember the book Women are From Venus Men Are From Mars? It was popular about l0 years ago. It dealt with how different men are processing feelings. They want to "fix" everything. When they're angry they go to their "cave" and isolate. Later when they work it out alone they come back. Women like to talk about it. Maybe there's something to it. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by gardenergirl on May 8, 2005, at 23:02:17
In reply to Re: The affect of therapy on marriage » TofuEmmy, posted by Phillipa on May 7, 2005, at 22:28:40
And he now thinks he is willing to try therapy.
Wow, he must have noticed that things aren't going well, finally.
He actually initiated a conversation. That's a first!
Feeling a bit more hopeful,
gg
Posted by alesta on May 8, 2005, at 23:37:56
In reply to Hey, he noticed I'm upset!, posted by gardenergirl on May 8, 2005, at 23:02:17
that's fantastic, gg!!! glad to see a positive outcome!:-) men can be a little slow with emotional issues, can't they? :)tam's book idea also sounds like a great one potentially. glad you're making progress with hubby..i have confidence things'll be just fine.:)
take care,;)
aim
Posted by alexandra_k on May 9, 2005, at 4:38:59
In reply to Hey, he noticed I'm upset!, posted by gardenergirl on May 8, 2005, at 23:02:17
Maybe he is a little worried about / afraid about going to therapy.
He is thinking that he can see why you go - because you get depressed... But he doesn't get depressed - so why should he go???
Some people worry that therapy will be uncomfortable etc etc. Maybe he is worried about that.
I don't know.
Depression is a hard one.
Most people seem to have trouble understanding.
I don't know what is up with me exactly, whether it is depression or what.
But I am struggling to do what I am supposed to be doing. To tell you the truth I have been struggling for the last year. People think I need a week or two off - and then I will be okay. They think that is all that is required. And they can't understand when I am still not 100% after getting that time. I have trouble understanding it myself.I'm sorry...
I'm just rambelling.
Posted by alesta on May 9, 2005, at 13:33:12
In reply to The affect of therapy on marriage » gardenergirl, posted by TofuEmmy on May 7, 2005, at 21:53:36
Posted by Dinah on May 9, 2005, at 20:11:59
In reply to Grrrrrrrrr My hubby does not get depression, posted by gardenergirl on May 6, 2005, at 22:54:34
Actually, he just goes through that phase every now and again.
Most of the time he just thanks God for my therapist.
Posted by Dinah on May 9, 2005, at 20:24:12
In reply to The affect of therapy on marriage » gardenergirl, posted by TofuEmmy on May 7, 2005, at 21:53:36
Oh, Emmy, you are so right. I was talking about this with my therapist the other day.
My husband is someone who *likes* to stay on the surface of life. And who's to say that he's wrong. His mother and my father both died at the same time, and he seems to be just fine. He was only upset when she was ill, and he didn't know what he was supposed to *do*. Once he didn't need to do anything, he was fine.
My therapist's take on it is that it's fine to appreciate each relationship for what it *does* give you, and find other sources for meeting other needs. So my other sources may be here, or may be my therapist.
I don't think it's a coincidence that I started looking for outside sources of attachment after being married for a little while. My family may have been as dysfunctional as all get out, but it was a rich source of emotional connection. Not all good, but definitely not superficial.
So in therapy, I learned healthier ways of connecting than I did in my family of origin, but have no one in my non-therapy life to connect to.
So I guess unless my husband suddenly makes a 180 degree turn, I'll be a therapy lifer. Because I need that connection to be stable.
God, that's a funny thing to think. That as oddly disturbed as my family of origin was, that it was also a source of the emotional connection I need for stability. Otherwise I drift away into anxiety.
Posted by damos on May 9, 2005, at 22:30:30
In reply to Re: Hey, he noticed I'm upset! » gardenergirl, posted by alexandra_k on May 9, 2005, at 4:38:59
> Depression is a hard one.
> Most people seem to have trouble understanding.
> I don't know what is up with me exactly, whether it is depression or what.
> But I am struggling to do what I am supposed to be doing. To tell you the truth I have been struggling for the last year. People think I need a week or two off - and then I will be okay. They think that is all that is required. And they can't understand when I am still not 100% after getting that time. I have trouble understanding it myself.
>
> I'm sorry...
> I'm just rambelling.No you're not. You're so right it's uncanny. My family treat my depression like an elephant in the lounge room. They know it's there but they think if they pretend it's not then everything is okay. I've been the same as you describe at work for a while now, haven't had a period like it for about 2 years. No-one seems to realise that no matter what we take a couple of weeks off from we can't take time off from ourselves. It and it's sh*t is there with us all day every day.
Posted by sunny10 on May 10, 2005, at 8:27:14
In reply to Re: Hey, he noticed I'm upset!, posted by damos on May 9, 2005, at 22:30:30
Posted by Chairman_MAO on May 12, 2005, at 21:17:59
In reply to Grrrrrrrrr My hubby does not get depression, posted by gardenergirl on May 6, 2005, at 22:54:34
Sounds like my father. My dad is too well-adjusted to understand depression. He's said things to me like, "Whenever I've been depressed, I force myself to start doing things to bring myself out of it. Why don't you try to actually do something to better your situation?"
Only recently are they starting to understand that saying that to me is like telling someone with Alzheimer's to practice remembering the names of their family members using flash cards.
"When are you going to be able to get off that medication?"
"Why do you feel you need drugs to function?"It's even been hard for me to truly accept that my illness (even though I believe that term is metaphorical, since the mind can never be "sick" like the body) is a genuine limitation, mostly beyond my control, that deserves sympathy from others. It's strange how getting on the right meds was the only way I ever was able to realize this. What I was missing is this: I believe mental illness is a metaphorical term, though just as serious as a conventional illness. I believe that the ADs that really elevate mood, like MAOIs, will elevate mood in normal people. Thus, for a while--much due to family conditioning, too--I felt like I was just seeking a "crutch" or a "quick fix". And then I realized that even if normal people get a mood elevation from an MAOI, when they stop taking it, their life doesn't fall apart! Sometimes it's hard to see the forest for the trees. Man, I am rambling.
I guess my point is that your husband should surround himself with resources to try to get a handle on what mental illness is. Support groups, therapy, or maybe even just reading dr-bob.org, heh.
Those of use who have family members that at least WANT to understand are lucky, though. You should give your husband credit for that; it sounds like he wants to understand (otherwise he wouldn't be trying so hard to motivate you), even though it may not look like it.
ugh ...
Most community mental health centers have support groups for family memebers of those with depression/mental illness.
Posted by sunny10 on May 13, 2005, at 9:08:12
In reply to Re: Grrrrrrrrr My hubby does not get depression » gardenergirl, posted by Chairman_MAO on May 12, 2005, at 21:17:59
honey, I hate to point this out, but you are disrespecting your illness just like your father does!
It isn't your "mind" that is sick, metaphorically speaking (like you said).
You brain is not working correctly and needs the meds to balance your mood controlling neurons.
(Though I absolutely ADORED your comparison to Alzheimer's users trying flash cards!!!! So perfect!)
Be nice to yourself, okay?? You're a good man.
-sunny10
Posted by TamaraJ on May 13, 2005, at 9:14:33
In reply to Grrrrrrrrr My hubby does not get depression, posted by gardenergirl on May 6, 2005, at 22:54:34
Posted by gardenergirl on May 14, 2005, at 15:02:16
In reply to Re: Grrrrrrrrr My hubby does not get depression » gardenergirl, posted by Chairman_MAO on May 12, 2005, at 21:17:59
Thanks for sharing that. I hear similar stuff (why can't you go off that med? etc.) from my mom. I finally told her that I KNOW her opinion, and when I talk to her about my depression, it's for support, not criticism. She actually stopped harping on that, although I think she was really surprised that I confronted her about it.
You know, a group for my hubby is a good idea, but he's not so good in groups. I suspect he would prefer to do something solitary. I'm looking into getting him a book or two, or finding a good website for him to at least browse.
And we've talked more, and he says he really is willing to go to counselling now, so that's good. It would be nice if he works on his issues, but if he at leasts gets support for himself regarding mine, that would be an improvement.
Hope MAOI is still working well for you.
gg
Posted by gardenergirl on May 14, 2005, at 15:13:59
In reply to GG - How are you doing? Things any better? (nm), posted by TamaraJ on May 13, 2005, at 9:14:33
Dang it....I had a whole post here, and there is this stupid key on the keyboard that I hit at times by accident that results in me losing all of what I have typed. It's that stupid Microsoft key that pulls up the right click mouse menu. And then whatever I type next before I realize it winds up "cutting" the text.
It was a good post.
Okay, shorter version. We are talking more honestly and things are better. He's agreed to do either individual or couples counseling. My preference is for him to do individual since going twice a week to therapy seems like a lot for me now. Adding another session for a new type of therapy would be hard. And I really really need to do my dissertation. But I feel selfish for thinking this. Or just like a baby who can't handle intense therapy. grrrr. I know I am entitled to my own needs. (Okay, none of this was in the lost post. Hmmm)
At any rate, he shared some things that helped me to understand why I was feeling so bad about the marriage. And we are being more affectionate and spending more time just being together. It helps, of course, that my depression is waning, too.
But when I came home one day and told him I had clinical depression, for some reason, that really freaked him out, and he got very pessimistic that I would ever get better. It wasn't news to me. I've had recurrent clinical depression it feels like all my life. This is just another episode. But I guess I have not labelled it like that before. My T had labelled it that day, and when I told my hubby, I guess it sounded worse or different.
At any rate, things are looking up. Now...if only I could disable that stupid Microsoft key...I think I tend to hit it when I am trying to hit shift with my right pinky.
Thanks for asking,
gg
Posted by TamaraJ on May 15, 2005, at 14:32:10
In reply to Re: GG - How are you doing? Things any better? » TamaraJ, posted by gardenergirl on May 14, 2005, at 15:13:59
Grrrrr! I hate when that happens! It has happened to me a few times - type, type, type . . . oops, duh, where did it go LOL? I managed to save the post a few times by clicking the "forward" arrow above the address line. Very frustrating though when the post can't be saved.
That's great that you and your husband are talking more honestly about things. Communication, actually open, honest communication, is such an important part of any relationship, but more so in a marriage. Although I have never been married, I have seen a few marriages suffer because the couple just seemed to stop communicating about the important stuff. That's very encouraging that he is willing to go for counselling. Yes, since you are already doing two sessions a week, it probably would be a bit much to add another session on for you. But, he may actually benefit from going solo to start with anyway. He can deal with some of his issues, whether he knows he has issues or not, and such, and then, when you have a bit more time, the two of you could do couples counselling. You're certainly not being a baby about it.
That's really good that he is sharing. I don't know why it is so hard for so many men to share and to talk about their feelings, fears and insecurities. It's nice that the two of you are spending more time together and being more affectionate. Maybe I'm crazy, but I think that couples sometimes just get so comfortable in the relationship that they take for granted the need to grow and learn about themselves and each other. I used to be quite jaded about marriage. I really hadn't seen many good ones. In the past number of years, though, I have seen some really good ones, but it does take work. I think anyone in what appears to be a good marriage will tell you that - it is hard work to stay in love and married, but it is worth it.
Oh, I can imagine actually hearing the words "clinical depression" would freak some people out, particularly those who have never experienced it or who have never known anyone who has experienced it. And, some people just can't handle the thought of someone they love being ill, whether it be mentally or physically. Sometimes it is not necessarily a lack of understanding or compassion, but rather fear.
I'm so glad, gg, that things are looking up, and I am really glad that your depression is waning. That is very good news indeed.Good luck with your dissertation, and take very good care of you.
Tamara
Posted by gardenergirl on May 16, 2005, at 21:36:17
In reply to Re: GG - How are you doing? Things any better? » gardenergirl, posted by TamaraJ on May 15, 2005, at 14:32:10
Thanks for all of your encouragement. It really helps.
So far things still going okay, but he has to go out of town overnight. :(
gg
This is the end of the thread.
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