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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Susan47 on May 10, 2005, at 9:02:04
In reply to Re: Susan..or anyone who feels like rambling on... » alesta, posted by alesta on May 9, 2005, at 21:23:30
I met an introvert here in my laundry room. He's a scientist. He looks in his thirties, mid- to late-, he's quite good-looking, but there's something about him that's too guileless or something. A bit fawning. It's hard for me to describe, it's like he doesn't know his own power yet, his power with people. That's the type I can't be attracted to. He doesn't own his power at all.
The man who knows his power but doesn't abuse it, a man who is aware of his capacity for love, and isn't afraid to use it. Because he knows it's unlimited. You know, someone like me. :) I'm a narcissist. Maybe I like narcissists in general. I think maybe they're attractive, at a really deep-seated level for me, y'know? Maybe you have to be a bit of a narcissist to really know yourself ...?
Posted by Susan47 on May 10, 2005, at 9:15:41
In reply to Re: Susan..or anyone who feels like rambling on..., posted by sunny10 on May 10, 2005, at 8:21:44
You might want to read this book, "Labyrinth of Desire", maybe it'll help you answer the pain question. It helped me, I probably should buy it and re-read it every once inawhile. I hope your therapist is a woman BTW, or if a man, one who's fearlessly able to work through things with you.
Posted by sunny10 on May 10, 2005, at 11:09:42
In reply to Re: Susan..or anyone who feels like rambling on... » sunny10, posted by Susan47 on May 10, 2005, at 9:15:41
so what, in your opinion is the difference between high self-esteem and narcisism?
In my opinion, someone with high self-esteem does not need to manipulate others in order to "create the illusion of high self-esteem" as a Narcisist does...
And are you aquiring high self-esteem or do you think you're a Narcisist?
And if someone is a diagnosed Narcisist, do they have the ability to change and accept that they do not need others to be "weak" in order to make themselves feel strong?
I am just full of questions today....I'm not trying to challenge you at all (I know what you mean about others reading what we type with a difference "voice" than the one we mean...)
I just find myself questioning everything lately...and life itself.
Posted by alesta on May 10, 2005, at 11:23:30
In reply to Re: Susan..or anyone who feels like rambling on..., posted by sunny10 on May 10, 2005, at 8:21:44
> You told Susan that you thought that maybe you could get through the romance part to get to the close frinedship part, but that you are unsure if you want to "work your life around theirs". (Not an exact quote, I know)
>
> I think the whole point is "making a life WITH", not "around".
>
> Do you think that would be possible for you? If not, why not? (I'm not trying to interrogate you; I'm attempting to develop a theory for myself about why we "feelers" spend so much time in pain instead of so much time with the elation feelings)
hi sunny10! how are you missy? :) glad to have another fellow 'rambler'..sometimes it's fun to let loose and just talk "feelings", ya know?anyways, back to the discussion..ummm..
> You told Susan that you thought that maybe you could get through the romance part to get to the close frinedship part, but that you are unsure if you want to "work your life around theirs".
oops..i did day that, didn't i?:) i was just rambling so i didn't inhibit myself i guess...funny what comes out of your mouth..i hate it when that happens. :)
i guess i'm feelling pretty negative right now about relationships. i can't envision what it would be like to have a close friendship with a mate..i don't know how common close, happy friendships are with mates anyway..and if it would be fulfilling and worth it..guess it could happen for me..maybe..i don't know.
i know you have to take that chance if you choose to find out. i'm just not sure if i'm willing do that or if i should embrace being fulfilled on my own. i know it's a choice i will have to make, with no clear answers. i do know that i really enjoy my own company, after i have gotten over relationships that have ended..
i just got out of a relationship, so my feelings on relationships are definitely tainted on the negative side..probably a good thing..they might be protecting me from getting into *another* one!
can we talk about something else? lol i just realized how much a hate this topic i brought up!!!
kisses,
aim
Posted by sunny10 on May 10, 2005, at 11:47:13
In reply to Re: Susan..or anyone who feels like rambling on... » sunny10, posted by alesta on May 10, 2005, at 11:23:30
righto... well... hmmm...
I guess I am rather consumed with that particular topic right now...
Although my SO would ask why you can't have a relationship's closeness AND take time to enjoy your own company solo....
So... we could segue (sp?) directly from his opinion on the subject and talk about why I disagree with him at the moment...
It's a matter of what it is you choose to DO with your alone time. Are you afraid that someone will not accept you for what it is you choose to do by yourself? And that brings me to ...
HOBBIES, et cetera... what DO you like to do by yourself? (Really asking for ideas- I mostly just read when I'm by myself and enjoy it immensely, but am very open to new ideas !!!)
(How did you like my method of "change of subject"?!?!)
Posted by alesta on May 10, 2005, at 11:53:13
In reply to Re: Susan..or anyone who feels like rambling on..., posted by Susan47 on May 10, 2005, at 9:02:04
> I met an introvert here in my laundry room. He's a scientist. He looks in his thirties, mid- to late-, he's quite good-looking, but there's something about him that's too guileless or something. A bit fawning. It's hard for me to describe, it's like he doesn't know his own power yet, his power with people. That's the type I can't be attracted to. He doesn't own his power at all.
oh, i can get a feel about him just from the way you described him..i wouldn't be attracted to him either, lol. you want someone more..manly..no..hard to put a word to it...i enjoy turning my brain off when i ramble like this.:)
> The man who knows his power but doesn't abuse it, a man who is aware of his capacity for love, and isn't afraid to use it. Because he knows it's unlimited. You know, someone like me. :) I'm a narcissist. Maybe I like narcissists in general. I think maybe they're attractive, at a really deep-seated level for me, y'know?
you think you're a narcissist? really? no WAY.:) i'll tell you why. susan, *everyone* has narcissistic *tendencies*, i am referring to the clinical definition of the narcissist..one who has narcissistic personality disorder. these people *do not* have the capacity for real love. the fact that you said "a man who is aware of his capacity for love, and isn't afraid to use it. Because he knows it's unlimited. You know, someone like me." tells me right there that you are *not* one. not even close, kid.:)
<Maybe you have to be a bit of a narcissist to really know yourself ...?
or experience with one. you don't need to have a disorder to spot it if you've studied them..in my experience..
amy
Posted by alesta on May 10, 2005, at 12:08:30
In reply to Re: well you STARTED it » alesta, posted by sunny10 on May 10, 2005, at 11:47:13
> righto... well... hmmm...
LOL, oh sunny, i know, i'm kidding around!:) i do that sometimes..start topics that i wish i hadn't..hope that didn't sound bad..guess ya gotta know me to know when i'm just being silly:) i figured you'd be one of those types of ppl who wouldn't take offense..:) sorry! btw, i'm enjoying the topic again, and your response.:-)
> I guess I am rather consumed with that particular topic right now...
>
> Although my SO would ask why you can't have a relationship's closeness AND take time to enjoy your own company solo....yes. but that's hard to do in today's fast-pasted 8-6 world....
> So... we could segue (sp?) directly from his opinion on the subject and talk about why I disagree with him at the moment...
>
> It's a matter of what it is you choose to DO with your alone time. Are you afraid that someone will not accept you for what it is you choose to do by yourself?no, it's just the 'compromising'..i'd have to watch what he wants to watch on tv (a biggie), compromise on what music to listen to (another biggie), and a bunch of other minor stuff that adds up that i can't think of right now..
And that brings me to ...
>
> HOBBIES, et cetera... what DO you like to do by yourself? (Really asking for ideas- I mostly just read when I'm by myself and enjoy it immensely, but am very open to new ideas !!!)right now..my free time is spent fully with my mom..any spare moments i usually jump on this computer and do my little posting and reading frenzy...so right now, no real hobbies. i guess reading for me, too, would be my future hobby.:) i used too play my violin as well but had to sell that. i think another hobby to do would be singing. umm..what else..i might get another pet..guess it wouldn't constitute as a hobby, lol..
> (How did you like my method of "change of subject"?!?!)
beautiful, sunny, beautiful..:)
amy
Posted by sunny10 on May 10, 2005, at 14:26:05
In reply to Re: well you STARTED it » sunny10, posted by alesta on May 10, 2005, at 12:08:30
I think you nailed it with the 8-6 world comment...
I'm not sure why we are all so hard on ourselves and each other all of the time...
It's hard enough to deal with the fact that it is an 8-6 world...and our men still expect us to act like their mothers- who soothed them and placated them- who went along with them... and who were under a great deal less stress than we are today! We need to be soothed and placated as much as they do, now!
I'm not saying that none of them worked outside the home- a lot did... but they were not pushed to be "career-driven" as we are. They had jobs with very small amounts of responsibility. They were basically office wives, "restaurant wives", laundry wives, cleaning wives, et cetera (you know what I'm getting at)
I think the key is to finding the guy that enjoys a lot of the same things as you do (tv shows, music, et cetera), but with enough small differences to keep conversation interesting. And, frankly, we can compromise on what to watch on tv or which music to listen to if we know that we will command the remote/stereo when our SO's are out with their friends, and they will command them when we are out with our friends...
That's the way these things SHOULD work, anyway...
Posted by Susan47 on May 10, 2005, at 19:16:10
In reply to Re: Susan..or anyone who feels like rambling on..., posted by sunny10 on May 10, 2005, at 11:09:42
I think it's good to question life. I intend to question it until my last breath.
This narcissism stuff you brought up, the ability to change ... I just want to go into diagnosing a narcissist. That would be very strange. Because you couldn't just up and tell a narcissist what he is, he's pathological until he's no longer a narcissist. The moment a narcissist realizes what he is, he's stopped being one. If the realization is honest, that is. Lots of people are good at playing the no-no that's-not-me game. I worry about myself too, maybe I play that game. I know that I used to. I really lived in huge denial about myself and my family, my life and everything, I didn't wanna own it. There, like a baby. Waaaa.
Posted by Susan47 on May 10, 2005, at 19:22:58
In reply to Re: Susan..or anyone who feels like rambling on... » Susan47, posted by alesta on May 10, 2005, at 11:53:13
Amy you're right. One experience is enough, actually. I don't know how many I've had, I honestly haven't looked that closely, but I do know I've been scarred emotionally. A lot, quite a lot actually, because when I think about my emotional scar it's big, it runs from my head, right where my eyes start, and it goes through my neck, hot and hard and hurting my shoulders, it runs through my legs into my feet and down into the ground. The scar is attached to the ground, it's big and hard and white and smooth, curved around and around like a vine, with a layer of gloopy wetness on the outside, it takes up the whole middle of me, head to toe.
Wow.
I never thought of it like that, maybe now that I've envisioned my emotional scar (!!) I can try to heal it, it just came to me, and my shoulders are still burning.
What were we talking about, I forgot.
Posted by alesta on May 10, 2005, at 20:38:44
In reply to Re: Susan..or anyone who feels like rambling on... » alesta, posted by Susan47 on May 10, 2005, at 19:22:58
> Wow.
> I never thought of it like that, maybe now that I've envisioned my emotional scar (!!) I can try to heal it, it just came to me, and my shoulders are still burning.
> What were we talking about, I forgot.that..is..SO..cool..that you had a moment like that when you were talking to me. i love hearing sh$t like that..anyway..i don't know..we can talk about whatever you want..what's a good topic??????? let us ponder this.....aim
Posted by Susan47 on May 11, 2005, at 8:44:27
In reply to Re: well you STARTED it » sunny10, posted by alesta on May 10, 2005, at 12:08:30
You had to sell your violin?
That's horrible. I had to sell my piano when I left the marriage last year. It was heartbreaking, absolutely heartbreaking.
Posted by alesta on May 11, 2005, at 12:13:15
In reply to Re: well you STARTED it » alesta, posted by Susan47 on May 11, 2005, at 8:44:27
sooz..good...what is it now....afternoon! :-)
> You had to sell your violin?
> That's horrible. I had to sell my piano when I left the marriage last year. It was heartbreaking, absolutely heartbreaking.awww, susan, i'm sorry. that sounds like it was really difficult. you made it through, though..proud of ya.:-)
it was depressing to me, too, selling my violin..i haven't touched a violin in years..that was my artistic outlet, ya know?
that's awesome..the piano :)..the piano is a cool instrument..i wish i'd learned that or guitar..it would be easier to write songs if i could play those..
i'm kind of looking for an artistic outlet..can you think of any or do you have any other creative things you like to? any drawing or art of any kind? or...? i'm thinking of really learning to sing..i've always done it for fun, and i love singing karaoke.:) but maybe i'll take that up more seriously..do you like to sing, suzie? btw, that was a beautiful segway you did to this new topic....:)
actually, now that i think about this artistic hobby thing, i think i should probably stick to the area of music...i'm not a 'visual' artist and don't particularly enjoy drawing, etc.
amy;)
Posted by Susan47 on May 11, 2005, at 20:06:56
In reply to Re: well you STARTED it » Susan47, posted by alesta on May 11, 2005, at 12:13:15
Drawing is lovely, for me. I love it. But I never do it.
Taken a couple of drawing classes, I'd love to do it all the time. But something always stops me. Fear. Huge. Huge fear. Same with writing. I want to write stuff, even a diary, but I can't. I read it later and it all sounds stupid. It takes a few years of distance before I can read anything with any understanding about what was happening for me. I wish now that I'd kept the diary I started when I was 14.. and the scrapbook I had, I loved making this scrapbook. It's all gone, thrown away in a fit of young adulthood. You know, that I-can't-believe-that-was-me ...? It's never a good experience for me when I read what I wrote too soon, when I'm going through rapid change. It can take 10 years or more to look back on myself with amusement. Which is what it takes, you know, to come to acceptance, sometimes.
I ramble.
Posted by alesta on May 11, 2005, at 22:48:19
In reply to Re: well you STARTED it, posted by Susan47 on May 11, 2005, at 20:06:56
hey girl :) man i am pretty freaking tired tonite..i need to catch up on some sleep *majorly*..so i hope this post is at least intelligible on some level..and i'll try my best not to doze off here..:)
> Drawing is lovely, for me. I love it. But I never do it.
< Taken a couple of drawing classes, I'd love to do it all the time. But something always stops me. Fear. Huge. Huge fear.
why don't you just draw for fun, if you really enjoy it...not put any pressure on yourself..you don't have to show it to nobody.:)
< Same with writing. I want to write stuff, even a diary, but I can't. I read it later and it all sounds stupid. It takes a few years of distance before I can read anything with any understanding about what was happening for me. I wish now that I'd kept the diary I started when I was 14.. and the scrapbook I had, I loved making this scrapbook. It's all gone, thrown away in a fit of young adulthood. You know, that I-can't-believe-that-was-me ...? It's never a good experience for me when I read what I wrote too soon, when I'm going through rapid change. It can take 10 years or more to look back on myself with amusement. Which is what it takes, you know, to come to acceptance, sometimes.
> I ramble.why don't you just put pen to paper and see what happens? nothing catastrophic is gonna happen..you might just enjoy yourself.:)
i hear you concerning wishing you'd hung on to old diaries...years ago i threw away a diary i had starting writing in when i was 9 years old..boy would i like to get my hands on that sucker now, lol..
<and the scrapbook I had, I loved making this scrapbook. It's all gone, thrown away in a fit of young adulthood. You know, that I-can't-believe-that-was-me ...?
i understand exactly. i've thrown stuff like that away on impulse and later regretted it, too..anyway, i don't think you were looking for real advice, but just rambling, as you say, so i will segway for a moment...
since you're a musical/auditory type person like i am. do you find that people's voices are really important to you? i was curious whether a guy's voice is as important to you as it is to me. like, if a guy had a squeaky voice or something, i don't think i could handle it, lol..i love a sexy, compassionate tone to a guy's voice..or just a nice tone...a nice tone *is* sexy..you know what i mean..and the way he talks..ya gotta like his accent..you know that singer..john mayer i think his name is..he sings that song..your body is a wonderland, which i *hate*, but, anyway, for some reason his accent irritates the $%$% out of me..it's this subtle irritating accent when he sings. (haven't heard him talk.) i rarely react so strongly and negatively to an accent, but there is just something about his that drives me nuts! (in a bad way.) i don't think i could listen to that..know what i'm sayin..now i'm rambling..but that was the intention.......have a BEAUTIFUL night darling susan...wish i had a guy here with me to say that to, lol...know what i mean??? i *know* you do....:):):):)
bon nuit, susanne,
amy
Posted by alexandra_k on May 12, 2005, at 5:04:43
In reply to Re: Susan..or anyone who feels like rambling on..., posted by Susan47 on May 10, 2005, at 9:02:04
> I met an introvert here in my laundry room. He's a scientist. He looks in his thirties, mid- to late-, he's quite good-looking, but there's something about him that's too guileless or something. A bit fawning. It's hard for me to describe, it's like he doesn't know his own power yet, his power with people. That's the type I can't be attracted to. He doesn't own his power at all.
Hmm.
That sparked my interest.
I wonder what he thinks about?
I wonder if he feels passionate about it?
Sometimes guys like that can be just wonderful.
A bit of care and it brings them out of their shell.But I know what you mean.
There is a tendancy to be attracted to people who initially appear to be 'strong'.. Only trouble is they generally turn out to be verrrrrry insecure and weak or violent and abusive or whatever.
I wonder sometimes...
If the people who are trustworthy I'm incapable of falling for
And the people who I am capable of falling for would never really fall for me (or be trustworthy).So there is the dilemma and there it is
i dont know
Posted by alexandra_k on May 12, 2005, at 5:07:08
In reply to Re: cybersex, Alesta » alesta, posted by alesta on May 9, 2005, at 18:14:12
> hey alex, where you at? haven't seen you much lately..maybe if i respark our cybersex conversation you'll return???
Hiya. Sorry... Have been a bit busy lately... Missed the thread.
Be busy for the next few weeks... or so... I don't know...
I miss you guys
Posted by Susan47 on May 12, 2005, at 9:14:53
In reply to rambling....auditory importance... » Susan47, posted by alesta on May 11, 2005, at 22:48:19
No. A man? What's that? A memory. Right now I'm thinking about my ex-T's legs, I want to know what they look like. Because a man's legs can be sooooo sexy.
Voices ... you mentioned voices. My ex-T's voice is heavenly. Not because he's a therapist, but that's just the voice he has. He's very fortunate. Not everyone has that. Oh man, he's just gorgeous in so many ways. I wonder if he has a twin that would be interested in me. Sigh. I think he's ruined me, you know, for men. Because no one will ever be that satisfying again. (heavy heavy sigh)
Ew, speaking of lovely, I was watching some television for a few minutes last night, I saw Joey from Friends, he was wearin this gorgeous heavy sweater, you know, it accented the shoulders - big shoulders is another heavy attraction for me ... and all I thought about was, what does he smell like, under the arms, you know? I LOOOOOVE the way some men smell. It's their smell. The smell is heavenly. The smell of a man's pheromones will get me to instantly turn on.
Mmmmmm. I miss that smell soooo much.
Posted by sunny10 on May 12, 2005, at 9:55:03
In reply to Pffft, a GUY????? » alesta, posted by Susan47 on May 12, 2005, at 9:14:53
I know what you mean about particular men being different from all others dependent upon how they smell to us... but I'm usually hurt by the ones that smell "right" to me...
How 'bout you???
By the way- quick reality check... can you really be ruined for other men when you've NEVER EVEN SEEN HIS LEGS????? I think NOT, my love!!!
Have you stopped calling his machine yet? I want a quick time check... has it been three weeks since the last time you heard his voice yet???
MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMWWWWWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH,
sunny10
Posted by alesta on May 12, 2005, at 12:32:26
In reply to Pffft, a GUY????? » alesta, posted by Susan47 on May 12, 2005, at 9:14:53
> No. A man? What's that? A memory. Right now I'm thinking about my ex-T's legs, I want to know what they look like. Because a man's legs can be sooooo sexy.
> Voices ... you mentioned voices. My ex-T's voice is heavenly. Not because he's a therapist, but that's just the voice he has. He's very fortunate. Not everyone has that. Oh man, he's just gorgeous in so many ways. I wonder if he has a twin that would be interested in me. Sigh. I think he's ruined me, you know, for men.
no, he hasn't susan. it's probably just that you're still in love with him...it just feels that way right now, i think..
<Because no one will ever be that satisfying again. (heavy heavy sigh)
oh..poo! not true!!!
> Ew, speaking of lovely, I was watching some television for a few minutes last night, I saw Joey from Friends, he was wearin this gorgeous heavy sweater, you know, it accented the shoulders - big shoulders is another heavy attraction for me ... and all I thought about was, what does he smell like, under the arms, you know?
OMG ARE YOU SERIOUS?? hehehe you are so funny sometimes, miss suzie..i can't say that i've ever fantasized about a guys armpits...EVER!:)
<I LOOOOOVE the way some men smell. It's their smell. The smell is heavenly. The smell of a man's pheromones will get me to instantly turn on.
sh*t, *everything* gets me turned on..it's those d#mn hormones..gotta get ridda those.:) you know, isn't it interesting that the word hormone is composed of 'hor' and 'mone'....both word parts being associated with sexuality? anyway..see this is what happens when i go in to ramble mode....:)
> Mmmmmm. I miss that smell soooo much.
i miss...ummm..nevermind...:-)
amy;)
Posted by alesta on May 12, 2005, at 12:55:10
In reply to Pffft, a GUY????? » alesta, posted by Susan47 on May 12, 2005, at 9:14:53
no, but seriously, i didn't mean to imply it was about sex. i miss just having a guy in my thoughts...for me it's very mental....i don't need pheromones or any of that stuff to sustain my romantic feelings..
what do i keep talking about guys for? to quote my grandmother, "would not have one for THE WORLD!" hmm! now i know why she said that.:-) (no i'm not swearing off men forever! just let me whine (as you say :)) !
amelia
Posted by sunny10 on May 12, 2005, at 13:39:38
In reply to Re: Pffft, a GUY????? » Susan47, posted by alesta on May 12, 2005, at 12:55:10
the hor mone thing got me giggling, though...
Thanks!
Posted by alesta on May 12, 2005, at 17:11:22
In reply to Re: yeah, thought you wanted a subject change » alesta, posted by sunny10 on May 12, 2005, at 13:39:38
> the hor mone thing got me giggling, though...
> Thanks!
oh you're so welcome!
well, if you can come up with better subject material than men, miss sunny, by all means...let's hear it!:-) what the heck else is there to talk about of significance anyway? basket weaving, perhaps?:) just kidding....:) ...aim, aka one-track mind...
Posted by alesta on May 12, 2005, at 20:48:17
In reply to Re: cybersex, Alesta » alesta, posted by alesta on May 9, 2005, at 18:14:12
oh MAN i wanna have cybersex so bad tonight..i hate the night..it makes me horny. it reminds me of romanticism and...ugh! what is a girl to do?? i have got to control this...desire..before it controls me...
did i write that? holy #%$#!
Posted by Chairman_MAO on May 12, 2005, at 21:47:23
In reply to cybersex revisited, posted by alesta on May 12, 2005, at 20:48:17
This makes me think of my days up at Syracuse University (18-22 yr old). I was so goddamn lonely (and I am a hopeless romantic at heart), and the social phobia coupled with dysthymia (I'm scared to go try to meet girls ... so why bother; real winner of a combo there) had me isolating myself in my room. The only girls, as I said before, that seemed to want to have anything to do with me were the ones who were dating as*holes who needed a decent guy's shoulder to cry on when things weren't going according to their liking. I mean, once I showed up at this girl's place who I was madly in love with after Thankgiving break in these leather pants I just got, a grey alpaca v-neck sweater that used to be my dad's, and blue-black hair. She visibly like melted right there (though I couldn't see it then because I had approximately no self esteem), but still refused to go out with me or even do anything except make out with me because of this other emotionally abusive guy she was on the outs with. I had such trouble handling my emotions back then; I used to agonize for literally hours if she didn't call me when she said she would. Man, I wish I were well then, I would've had so much fun.
And to top it off, the girl I'm dating now--who I met at Rutgers, in NJ--was ATTENDING Syracuse when I was there, and she was lonely too! Man, I had no idea my life was so well suited to daytime TV until I started typing this message, haha.
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