![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 28. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by AdaGrace on May 5, 2005, at 17:13:15
It seems actually somewhat amusing that women's intuition is poo-pooed, and we are accused of jumping to conclusions......when in all reality, we are often correct in our fears and misgivings.
We see things for what they really are sometimes even before we allow even ourselves to admit that it is true. We voice those thoughts, and we are given the "Oh my God, I can't believe you don't trust me" or the "I would never do that to you, I can't believe you said that" speech. Funny how it turns out to be true many many times.
Why is that?
Why cannot people just own up to their feelings when we call them on it?
Why does it have to drag on from there?
That not trusting feeling doesn't go away, it merely ebbs for a time. Only to escalate again at a later date.
Posted by alesta on May 5, 2005, at 20:07:48
In reply to Isn't It Funny...Not, posted by AdaGrace on May 5, 2005, at 17:13:15
> It seems actually somewhat amusing that women's intuition is poo-pooed, and we are accused of jumping to conclusions......when in all reality, we are often correct in our fears and misgivings.
>
> We see things for what they really are sometimes even before we allow even ourselves to admit that it is true. We voice those thoughts, and we are given the "Oh my God, I can't believe you don't trust me" or the "I would never do that to you, I can't believe you said that" speech. Funny how it turns out to be true many many times.yes, adagrace, here here! that is soooo true. in the end, when i look back, my intuitions have always been there, guiding me..my intuition is *very* strong..if only i had trusted it, i would have avoided a lot of pain..
it's hard, though, when someone tells you that *you're* being mean or this or that, and, me, wanting to be a good person, and trying to be "open-minded" and whatnot..assume that they're right..totally forgetting my intuition..but it has never failed me in the past. why can't i just learn to trust it?
> Why is that?
i don't know..i guess because it's so easy to tell the person they're imagining it..and then the person accusing the validity of the intuition can continue doing the behavior they want to do. and they don't really care how the behavior will affect you. they are selfish. i suppose..just tossing out thoughts..:)
> Why cannot people just own up to their feelings when we call them on it?see above. god, it would be nice though, wouldn't it?
> Why does it have to drag on from there?
> That not trusting feeling doesn't go away, it merely ebbs for a time. Only to escalate again at a later date.
>it drags on cause the accuser can have their cake and eat it, too, by trickery. the deciding factor is whether you will allow yourself to be tricked..it's easy for someone you care about to manipulate your thoughts, i think..
aim:)
Posted by AdaGrace on May 5, 2005, at 20:55:39
In reply to Re: Isn't It Funny...Not » AdaGrace, posted by alesta on May 5, 2005, at 20:07:48
Geeze, it sucks knowing what will come doesn't it.
Posted by alesta on May 5, 2005, at 21:11:41
In reply to Re: Isn't It Funny...Not » alesta, posted by AdaGrace on May 5, 2005, at 20:55:39
why do they fight to the end saying that your intuition was wrong? i don't get that. even after a relationship ends cause they've hurt you, they *still* won't admit that you were right, they had feelings for someone else, and were neglecting you because of the other person. why won't they at least give you that????? can anyone tell me??? i feel like i've been cheated on physically, even though it was just emotionally. and it hurts.
the guy i was seeing was sooo distant the last time i talked to him..today he said he would be really busy the next couple of days..wouldn't have much time, but he still had time to talk to this other girl, and still put more attention/time into her than me. maybe he wanted to end it cause he liked her and so wasn't attracted to me anymore and didn't have the guts to tell me?? he thought it would be kinder that way? i am seriously done with guys for a long, long time. this guy knew i was vulnerable and #$#%ed with me.
i hate jerks. the only reason i liked this guy is cause i thought he was kind and compassionate. i was trying not to repeat the past. and what do i get? another jerk.
sorry, adagrace. i have to get this stuff out somehow..i have no one to talk to here. i think i am going to lose my mind..this is like the final straw for me.
amy
Posted by AdaGrace on May 6, 2005, at 8:58:47
In reply to rant.. » AdaGrace, posted by alesta on May 5, 2005, at 21:11:41
Alesta,
I know I am going to get some flack for saying this, but here goes.
Men, at least the ones that I have met, seem to be so weak. They can't own up to their feelings. They are often cads and tell us what we want to here. They know by saying those words.....
I'll always love you.
You are my soul mate.
You will never lose me.
You are the best thing that has happened to me.
Yadda Yadda YaddaBy saying those words to us, making us feel special, they are getting us to the point in which they have us tied up in a neat little package sitting there on their bed just waiting to be in love.
It's sickening acutally. I .....as a women in the throws of pre-menopause, mid-life crisis, extramarital affairing......can honestly say, I have NEVER said something to a man about how I feel that wasn't true. I have so many faults, but I have never said "I love you" and not mean it.
Just like you, I don't understand the "fight to the very end" part in men. Competition? I guess. I hate men for doing this. They are possessive, and yet don't want us to be. They are demanding, and yet don't want us to be. They are callous, cruel, and oftentimes very hurtful, and yet we fall for the line everytime. One sweet sentence makes me forget all the previous hurt they did. Guess that means I am weak as well. A sucker. A huge fat sucker for pretty words. Wish I could become stronger. Wish I could be the hard*ss I want to be. And for God's sake, I wish I felt better about myself and stop this search for attention and sex from others instead of my husband. I don't like him. I don't even love him anymore. But we are friends now. Until the next episode of tyranical rule and yelling, spitting, emotionally abusive fit.
So I stay, because I think I should. Because I feel I deserve no better. Because I am used to it. It's sad really.Geeze, when did this become about me? Alesta? Did I ever tell you how pretty I though your name was?
AdaGrace
Posted by sunny10 on May 6, 2005, at 10:08:27
In reply to Re: rant.. » alesta, posted by AdaGrace on May 6, 2005, at 8:58:47
want?!?!?!
The ones I have been involved with have been hardwired to "be the best" "have the best", "always be right", and always "be free to make all decisions".
They have lied even more to themselves than they do to me, usually...take my SO for instance...
In order to work things out with me, it is not enough that he apologized and said all of the right things. Unless he can admit to a third party (therapist) that he needs to learn how to work through his feelings and not bury them in chemical substances and DO the WORK to actually learn HOW, I can't trust his words.
I've trusted them before...
Posted by broken on May 6, 2005, at 11:03:15
In reply to Re: rant.. » alesta, posted by AdaGrace on May 6, 2005, at 8:58:47
> Just like you, I don't understand the "fight to the very end" part in men. Competition? I guess. I hate men for doing this. They are possessive, and yet don't want us to be. They are demanding, and yet don't want us to be. They are callous, cruel, and oftentimes very hurtful, and yet we fall for the line everytime. One sweet sentence makes me forget all the previous hurt they did. Guess that means I am weak as well. A sucker. A huge fat sucker for pretty words. Wish I could become stronger. Wish I could be the hard*ss I want to be. And for God's sake, I wish I felt better about myself and stop this search for attention and sex from others instead of my husband. I don't like him. I don't even love him anymore. But we are friends now. Until the next episode of tyranical rule and yelling, spitting, emotionally abusive fit.
> So I stay, because I think I should. Because I feel I deserve no better. Because I am used to it. It's sad really.
>
> Geeze, when did this become about me? Alesta? Did I ever tell you how pretty I though your name was?
>
> AdaGrace
Grace,I know that I base my feelings on my experience in the past. It's really the only way I know how. I know that in the earlier paragraph, you said "Men, at least the ones I have met" so I hope that applies to the paragraph I quoted as well. You weren't specific there, and I dont want to take the quote out of context.
I know from your posts here that you are enduring a tremendous amount of pain, I wish I could say something that would take that all away. Ofcourse I can't, like you mentioned, paraphrasing, talk is cheap. But let me assure you of one thing. Even though your past experience has been horrible, it can get better.
I am very much in love with my wife, I appreciate all she has done for me and our family, and I show my appreciation for her as often as I can. Even if I can only do that by taking her to dinner without the kids, or letting her sleep in on the weekends, while I get breakfast cooked for the family. I share everything that goes on in my life with her, even babble, and the friends I've made here. And better yet, I am not special. I know there are a huge amount of men that do the same things for their SO.Don't give up on that, or lose faith please. You're worth that, not only worth it, but you deserve that life, if that is what you want.
I hope that things improve for you, and I wish you the best of things to come.
Chris
Posted by alesta on May 6, 2005, at 23:12:10
In reply to Re: rant.. » alesta, posted by AdaGrace on May 6, 2005, at 8:58:47
hi adagrace:)i can so relate to everything you said girl. and, hey, i am bloody tired of talking about myself.:) it's depressing. i would love to hear about you!
god, i wish you felt better about yourself, too..you have been so amazing to me during a very difficult period. i didn't know your husband was abusive. i just left an emotionally abusive relationship myself.
so do you think maybe you would ever consider leaving him ITF? i wonder if you think you might find that more painful than the abuse? your relationship sounds very unsatisfying, gracie. you know you deserve better, ada. you are a beautiful person..why would you think otherwise? and don't even let yourself internalize the hurtful words your SO says to you, all right? i used to plug my ears constantly so i couldn't hear the venomous spew coming out of my ex's mouth..because the words hurt that bad.
no wonder you are seeking sex and attention from other men, sweetie. i started to stray in my last (extremely abusive) relationship, too, and that is totally uncharacteristic of me. i know it was b/c of the abuse. so please don't beat yourself up..abusive men have this toxic affect over you..it's like you seek out other men to preserve your emotional stability or something..to restore what the abusers took away..and only another man seems able to fit the bill in satisfying that (i'm not being objective at all on this last point..that was just how i felt, i guess..i can't speak for you, ada.)
sweetie, you aren't getting your needs met..quite the opposite..he is destroying your self-esteem. don't you know that you are a beautiful person? that i care about you and so do others here? that you don't have to feel like this?
sorry..i jumped in with both feet on this one, lol..you don't have to answer my questions if you don't want to, but i would love to hear your answers. i really just wanted to try and help you, too. but maybe you just wanted me to listen. you deserve happiness, hon. another option is therapy..i wonder if y'all have considered that.:)
<Alesta? Did I ever tell you how pretty I though your name was?
:-) uh uh! i'm so glad you like it! you already know i love yours. :)
amy:)
Posted by alesta on May 6, 2005, at 23:41:53
In reply to Re: because even THEY don't know what they truly, posted by sunny10 on May 6, 2005, at 10:08:27
hi sunny :)
yes, i think that's probably it, too! (that even they don't know what they truly want)
(although now he is totally pissed at me cause i challenged his behavior..and he no likey.:) )
ugh..but it's not a nice thought to revisit, though. can i just go in denial now, pretty please? (and the bad, bad feelings come flooding back in the form of a gargantuan tsunami from hell.) well, at least now i can retire all this bloody speculation and basically move on.:)
> They have lied even more to themselves than they do to me, usually...
i know. word. :)
<take my SO for instance...> In order to work things out with me, it is not enough that he apologized and said all of the right things. Unless he can admit to a third party (therapist) that he needs to learn how to work through his feelings and not bury them in chemical substances and DO the WORK to actually learn HOW, I can't trust his words.
>
> I've trusted them before...i'm glad you're putting your foot down..it sounds like you have a good gameplan worked out for you and your SO...i think many addicts might be itching to talk to someone deep down perhaps. good luck dear!:)
aim;)
Posted by AdaGrace on May 7, 2005, at 7:11:15
In reply to Re: rant.., posted by broken on May 6, 2005, at 11:03:15
Broken, I know you are right. I know that. I know there are men out there who worship their wives without controlling them. I can only speak from my own experiences, that's for sure. However, I seem to be in a crowd of friends in the same boat. The perils of growing up and staying in a small community. Not much to pick from I guess. I have a friend who shared her story with me on a field trip bus several years ago. She said it best. When you are 18, 19, 20....you have no idea what you want. But you think you do, you end up with the first man who pays you any attention, perhaps the first one you have sex with. At 25 you settle into the normalcy of life, have babies, and do for your man. At 30 things start to change. You start to ask yourself, "Hey, what about me?" But you don't say it outloud. You wouldn't dare. So you begin to seeth a little inside. You start to dream of something else. At 35 it seems the resentment grows. You wish you were young again. You wish you had lived a little before you sentenced yourself to a life of servitude. At all these different ages women have different goals, different ideas of what they want.
Alesta, People should NOT marry young. They should live a little first. Before you know it, you are 40. You realize that life has never been about you. IT's been about him and the kids and the job, but never about you. Now it's about your aging &/or ailing parents, but still not about you. (this is me talking, not the friend on the school field trip bus, just to clarify) It just seems that at this age, I finally realize that I haven't lived, I haven't been sucessful in my own self. I've allowed myself to be molded into something I am not. I have a strained relationship with my siblings that I am just now trying to repair. I have no religious outlet because that was taken away from me at marriage. My friends from long ago are long gone. My friends now are all his.
I have just now started to branch out and make new ones. However, they are not friends of choice for Mr. Man. Bad influences they are. Why they come up to me at school events, restaurants, even stop by my house uninvited and they like me. That's horrifying to him. I am branching out. That little fat anti-social girl has become a woman who's company is desired by many.
I am learning about life, love, and the pursuit of happyness. I am realizing that my entire life I have served, worked my *ss off, made a beautiful home and yard....paid for most every luxury we have...and yet not much thanks or respect comes my way.
I am realizing that I have grown intellectually, emotionally, and gotten thinner physically, while he has stayed the same. Unyielding to new ideas, new ways of thinking, and of course new ways of being. I began to like myself, but he doesn't. He rants, he accuses, he belittles, he "puts me back in my place" more often than not. So I hate myself once again, because that is how I see him seeing me.
This week I started to forget why I hated him. Yet as another friend said last night...."don't worry, he will remind you at some time in the future". I just dont' know what to do at this point in time. 20 years of being the glue. 20 years of wearing the skirt.
I am afraid of change. I am so into the Mommy/Wife servitude role that I really don't think I can change or become anything different. Above all, I don't want to hurt anyone.
I stay out of fear of reprocussions...mental, physical, and yes social. I won't let my kids go through the horrifying stigma of a 20 year marriage and family being broke up because "I'm just not happy anymore" So I stay.Sunny, darling Sunny,
You have been there for me many times and I often rejected your advise, your help, your words. Yet I remember them all the same. I appreciate them more than I can say and more than anyone could realize. You have so much love in you. I see it in your words. Isn't it amazing how friendships can be forged with only the written word? Isn't it beautiful to know someone without ever having met them? Isnt' it great that physical appearance doens't even remotely mean a d*mn thing? In the end of life, these are the ones that will stay with us. Friends and family. My sisters of course always say...."spouses can come and go, but sisters will be sisters forever, What Mom has put together, let no man put assunder" Isn't that true with friends as well?
The words they say, the lies they tell, they are only that. Words. Weakness portrayed in promisses are not forgotten, but we can learn from them. We are passionate people, us women. And you know what? They need that. They need guidance, they need emotional support, and they need physical proof of everything. So, yes Sunny. Let's take it all in with a grain of salt. Listen to the beauty of the voice, but remember the reality in your head. I agree with Broken. There really must be some men out there who are sincere. Who put their mate above all else in the world. Being on a pedestal might just feel grand for a change.
Is this a manic high? I haven't drank anything this morning. I haven't smoked and weed. I am seriously liking the day. What the h*ll happened over night? It must be the Estee Lauder self tanning goop I put on that makes my thighs actually look a tad thinner and my batwing arms aren't quite so horrifying this morning....
Toddles, I'm off to serve the world.
Today, though, I am going to do something for myself, for my sanity, for self preservation.AdaGrace
Posted by broken on May 7, 2005, at 20:45:35
In reply to Re: rant....Alesta, Sunny, » broken, posted by AdaGrace on May 7, 2005, at 7:11:15
Grace,
I so wish I could help. Believe it or not, I understand at least part of what you are saying. This is a second marriage for me. I won't go into a lot of details about that except to say, I was married just after I turned 18, she was 25. After 9 years of marriage, I thought I would be there forever, and I attribute alot of my earlier depression, my suicide attempt and subsequent hospital stay to the marriage. When I checked out of the hospital, I did so knowing that a divorce was going to have to take place. A man hates change too, and I was a wreck for several months during the divorce fighting for at least something I had owned. I ended up with the house. No furniture at all, no vehicle, and monthly alimony payments in a state without allimony, even though we had no kids and both worked. But I managed it, and it gave me a new life that I adore.
I don't mean to push you toward a divorce, but my decision was that while I couldn't control part of my depression, I could change my lifestyle and remove some of what I believed were contributing factors. My marriage was one of those things.Again God bless, and take care of you
Chris
Posted by sunny10 on May 9, 2005, at 8:45:18
In reply to Re: rant....Alesta, Sunny, » AdaGrace, posted by broken on May 7, 2005, at 20:45:35
your post was me, too. All of it.
I think maybe that because I grew up too soon- was responsible for so much so early (and with no right to an opinion or decision-making!), my life WAS put entirely on hold.
Everything I did was done first to try to get my parents (mother and stepfather who were emotionally and physically ,in that order)to love me or at least approve of me. I was sent to boarding school (no choice in the matter). While at boarding school, I was told that my mother and step-father were divorcing. My mother told me that my step-father didn't want anything to do with us kids anymore. I tried an overdose at seventeen. I had been told too many times that I was worthless and that no one wanted anything to do with me- my mother "dealt" with me because I was her "duty". My "first love" had also just cheated on me and abandoned me...
Then everything I did was for my (now ex-)husband and my son.
I was never allowed to do anything for me. My ex-husband emotionally abused me, and then when he started drinking heavily, he physically abused our son. He doesn't remember any of this- he was drunk. But he would get drunk, pick fights with me, and then when our two year old son would start becoming whiney because his father was yelling, my ex would pick him up and literally throw him into his youth bed. Several times my son hit the wall before he hit his mattress... With me, it was what I was/wasn't allowed to wear, who I was allowed to be friends with, and that I wasn't allowed to actually go out with my friends. That we had to spend both days of every weekend at his parents' house... I rebelled finally and started going out after work on Fridays. I worked for a bank, and we closed late on Fridays. I wasn't neglecting my son to go out because he was already asleep in bed before my work day was even done- so I went out with my friends from work afterwards. And every time, my ex would call the restaurant that we went to (a client of ours owned the restaurant) and ask who was sitting at the table with us- were there any men there. And the one time there WAS a man sitting at our table (also a co-worker), my ex showed up and barged in and demanded that he be allowed to join us. I was humiliated every time I tried to go out- with his presence, or his phone calls. I was pitied by my co-workers and this shamed me horribly. It was all too much.
My stepfather took me to my mother's lawyer- he lost everything in their divorce to my mom, so he figured she must be a good lawyer...But the lawyer told me that I was too poor to divorce my husband and provide for my son. That there was no way to keep a roof over our heads and food on the table with my salary alone.
Three months later I overdosed. I knew that without having me to argue with, my son wouldn't get thrown into walls by my ex. Without saying the actual words, the lawyer given me the answer that this was the only way I could protect my son. And my mother had continually told me that I was useless, worthless, was a mistake, was supposed to be aborted, et cetera while I was growing up. I thought that not existing anymore would be the greatest gift I could give my son.
When I got out of the hospital, it was pretty clear to everyone that our marriage was over. There was lots more horrible stuff during the divorce and then custody battle. It lasted over two years. There was another suicide attempt when the courts awarded full custody to my ex- because he claimed that a guy I was sharing a house with was physically abusing our son! The courts didn't even ask any questions at all- just gave full custody to the only man who HAD physically abused our son... And my ex was STILL mad at me- and was now emotionally abusing our son (mommy left us because of that man; she loves him more than us; we'll get her back if you tell your preschool director that her boyfriend hurt you...). I was still afraid for my son's safety in his father's care.
So, yes, AdaGrace- every decision that I made was for someone else; nothing was for me- I had already lost myself like you said.
I also believe that NO ONE should be allowed to marry young. Not until they're 30, at least. We don't know ourselves- much less know how to really "see" someone else until then...
Like Chris, obviously my marriage was one of the things that had to go- but then again I wouldn't have married the wrong person if I weren't already lost and confused (and, of course, since then I've been diagnosed with Recurrent Major Depressive Disorder- half nature, half nurture so say the professionals...).
If your hubby is a Narcissist, he will never "allow" you to change. If he's not- and is just immature- he can change the relationship WITH you. Couples counselling exists for a reason. It exists because it is part of the natural scheme of things for the two people within a marriage to grow and change as we mature. Either he will help "grow" the marriage to incorporate your need for some independence or he won't.
I wish you the best of luck in this... as a rule, most people hate change and go to great lengths to avoid it. (Even those of us who need the changes to occur!)
If there is anything at all I can do to help- talk more- shut up and just listen... anything at all; please let me know.
We are all earth's "sisters"- and I wouldn't have it any other way.
big kisses,
sunny10
Posted by AdaGrace on May 9, 2005, at 9:50:54
In reply to Re: AdaGrace (triggerish and very long), posted by sunny10 on May 9, 2005, at 8:45:18
I appreciate your post very much. It also made me cry. It made me feel as if someone understands. However, that realization, and the fact that I am so scared of the change that I feel inadequate to say the least. I was accused of being a lesbian by my husband because he overheard me tell my best friend "I love you" on the phone. God, I need salvation from this hell.
Posted by sunny10 on May 9, 2005, at 13:35:26
In reply to Re: AdaGrace (triggerish and very long) » sunny10, posted by AdaGrace on May 9, 2005, at 9:50:54
I must be a lesbian, too, then...
No, seriously, it sounds like he has a very "he-man" idea of what love and intimacy are...
What do you think might happen if you just started sharing with him your thoughts, hopes, and dreams... Don't tell him you're going to do this... just start doing it- do it for a few weeks and see how he begins to respond.
In my experience, when I've asked a man to try communicating more openly, the first thing they do is shut down emotionally. To them, communication and feelings are like a foreign language that they feel incapable of mastering (and some fear it would emasculate them).
But if I start talking, they usually respond by listening at least. Eventually, they respond (mostly, at first, it's because they want to strike a debate about something I've said- but it's a start!!).
As far as it actually "accomplishes anything", well, you'll have to just stay tuned... I'm not sure what the outcome is yet!!! But I'm determined to stick with it this time, all the way through, no matter what the outcome. Even if the outcome is not the one I hope for...
'Cause all I can do in this life is my best, AdaGrace.
And the same goes for you. If you feel that the biggest problem you have with hubby is that he doesn't understand you, all you can do is talk to him until he does. And I sense from your comment about feeling inadequate to discuss couples counselling with him; so omit the counsellor- if he doesn't want to talk to a counsellor (or even you), he can at least listen to you, right?!?
What do you think? Is this idea worth a try for you? Or is Sunny10 talking out of her idealistic a** again?!?
Posted by damos on May 9, 2005, at 22:18:38
In reply to Re: AdaGrace, posted by sunny10 on May 9, 2005, at 13:35:26
You guys are breaking my heart so badly. Wish I was in an place where I could contribute anything worthwhile here. Just know I hear you both and my heart is aching for you.
Posted by sunny10 on May 10, 2005, at 8:25:16
In reply to Re: (((((AdaGrace, Sunny))))), posted by damos on May 9, 2005, at 22:18:38
do you sometimes wish you could just turn off your feelings for a break?
All of them.
Or maybe it's just my brain I need to turn off...
I appreciate the fact that you are sending me good wishes despite the fact that I am trying something with my SO that is against all advice I have been given.
You are definitely one of the good guys...
Thanks for everything,
sunny10
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 10, 2005, at 10:13:41
In reply to Re: (((((Damos))))), posted by sunny10 on May 10, 2005, at 8:25:16
> I appreciate the fact that you are sending me good wishes despite the fact that I am trying something with my SO that is against all advice I have been given.
That sentence left a jarring note in my brain. Do you care to mention what that might be? I think I missed something.
Lar
Posted by sunny10 on May 10, 2005, at 11:19:29
In reply to Re: sunny? » sunny10, posted by Larry Hoover on May 10, 2005, at 10:13:41
no one wants me to try this- everyone just wants me to run away, but I can't...
for MANY reasons...MOST importantly, proving a point to myself...
I am NOT a weakling- I AM capable of doing something other than running away from all of life's problems...and dealing with a loved one who is hurting and self-medicating is something that life has thrown at me. I don't want to run from all of life's challenges anymore...
That is all I've ever done and I'm overdue for a change.
Having said that, I am incorporating into this theory that I cannot change how my SO deals with life's little problems. I can point out the path and offer to walk it with him, but I can't do the changing for him.
I can only try to change how I choose to deal with the problems. In order for ME to grow, it is important for me not to run. But everyone else only sees "a manipulator" and wants me to run far away. I've decided to let a therapist figure out whether he has a problem that can be helped or if he IS a manipulator.
Have I cleared it up any?
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 10, 2005, at 13:12:21
In reply to Re: anger mgmt and couples counselling » Larry Hoover, posted by sunny10 on May 10, 2005, at 11:19:29
> no one wants me to try this- everyone just wants me to run away, but I can't...
>
> for MANY reasons...MOST importantly, proving a point to myself...
>
> I am NOT a weakling- I AM capable of doing something other than running away from all of life's problems...and dealing with a loved one who is hurting and self-medicating is something that life has thrown at me. I don't want to run from all of life's challenges anymore...
>
> That is all I've ever done and I'm overdue for a change.
>
> Having said that, I am incorporating into this theory that I cannot change how my SO deals with life's little problems. I can point out the path and offer to walk it with him, but I can't do the changing for him.
>
> I can only try to change how I choose to deal with the problems. In order for ME to grow, it is important for me not to run. But everyone else only sees "a manipulator" and wants me to run far away. I've decided to let a therapist figure out whether he has a problem that can be helped or if he IS a manipulator.
>
> Have I cleared it up any?Absolutely. I didn't miss anything, then. It was the way you simplified it that confused me.
I see you're clear on the path concept, and time will show if your paths are congruent.
Best,
Lar
Posted by alesta on May 10, 2005, at 13:26:11
In reply to Re: anger mgmt and couples counselling » Larry Hoover, posted by sunny10 on May 10, 2005, at 11:19:29
hi sunny,
forget what 'everyone' is telling you. there is *nothing wrong* with staying and trying to help him and your relationship..there are degrees here, ya know? i personally was in actual physical danger and mental torture..there was no other option. for you, it doesn't sound like the situation was nearly as extreme. i am like you, if the relationship means something to you, and you care about this person, and you think you'd like a future with this person, do not let anyone tell you leaving is the best option for you. only you can decide what is best for you. i believe in sticking by ppl as well, depending on the scenario. anyway, i wanted you to know that someone out there supports your decision to stay if you choose. subject to renegotiation at any time.:)amy:)
Posted by sunny10 on May 10, 2005, at 14:29:25
In reply to Re: anger mgmt and couples counselling - sunny, posted by alesta on May 10, 2005, at 13:26:11
Posted by 10derHeart on May 10, 2005, at 16:31:10
In reply to Re: AdaGrace (triggerish and very long) » sunny10, posted by AdaGrace on May 9, 2005, at 9:50:54
Adagrace,
Boy did this sharply bring back an old memory. More than 17 years ago, my then soon-to-be-ex. accused me of that as well. I think he may have gone one better than yours on the lesbian issue. He didn't need to hear me say "I love you," or anything like that. One day, because in that week I'd worked about 1 hour overtime on two different days, he informed me he knew I was "messing around" with another woman and doing it at work. When I asked why on earth he thought that, and out of curiosity, which woman, he said, "oh, any one of those *itches you work with. It's obvious what's going on, there aren't any men working late, are there?!"
I was in the military at the time. Eveyone in my office just happened to be female for a short while. He knew that.
What I probably said to him, went something like this: "Yes, of course, dear, instead of finishing up the work we swore to do, at taxpayers expense, to help defend our country, we are all having hot sex right there on the desks, for one hour, twice a week now, just before we all go home to our kids and husbands."
He was the most insecure man I have ever - and maybe will ever - meet.
This is a man who starting choking me one time, too. Because he got fired that day (which I didn't know yet) Just as I started to see stars a bit (and managed to get away), he was muttering, "I should choke you becasueI don't have a job any more." Impeccable logic, eh?
Sorry, that opened an old door....
I get that stuff, Ada, really I do. It is hellish. (can I use that word?) Hang in there. Try to take care of yourself. I don't know what else to say right now. I will try to follow your threads more and post...if I'm able.
(Yours and sunny's have been surprisingly hard for me. But I can try harder. I want to help if I can.)
Posted by sunny10 on May 11, 2005, at 8:35:23
In reply to Re: AdaGrace (*triggerish* and very long) » AdaGrace, posted by 10derHeart on May 10, 2005, at 16:31:10
it's hard to know that our stories are bringing back old hurts.
Can you heal old hurts easier than new ones, though? I mean, now that we brought them back up to be examined and they are not fresh and bleeding, perhaps you can deal with all of the why's and finally take its power to hurt away???
I'm saying that because I've been told to "do" that by T's many times... HOW one goes about doing it, I couldn't seem to grasp from those T's though... maybe you did???
If you did, puhlease, give me a clue....
If not, please feel free to ignore me- I don't want to be a cause of hurt for you...
Posted by AdaGrace on May 11, 2005, at 11:37:07
In reply to Re: sorry » 10derHeart, posted by sunny10 on May 11, 2005, at 8:35:23
I just don't know what to say right now.......I'll respond when I can put my feelings into words...
Posted by sunny10 on May 11, 2005, at 12:11:24
In reply to Re: you're not making it worse » sunny10, posted by AdaGrace on May 11, 2005, at 11:37:07
funny- I have all the words.... it's my feelings that are a jumble....
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