![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 45. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by sunny10 on May 2, 2005, at 12:37:12
I think I'm going off the deep end again- for no concrete reason....
My SO and I had a "date" on Saturday night (mainly it was a "half-weekend, sleepover date"- his mom was throwing a huge family and friends get-together and he wasn't up to answering questions about "us" yet). We ran errands together on Saturday afternnon, went out to dinner, then watched a movie at my apt and went to bed. He had brought over deodorant, shaving gel, and a razor with extra cartridges and has stored them in my bathroom cabinet.
I had to meet my brother at the old house at 11:00 am the next morning,so he could move an extra refrigerator out (that his in-laws can use), so we "parted" at about 10:30. SO had hopped in the shower before he left my apt. The goodbyes were, "see ya later", as was usual when we lived together, but now it's like "see you WHEN?", you know? Every time I try to call him, he doesn't answer his cell phone and it goes to voice mail. I know for a fact that we get no reception on our Verizon phones inside his mom's house..So why did I NOT fall asleep last night because I became suddenly convinced that he was not only "dating" me, but dating other women as well???? I mean, seriously, there I was imagining going to see him at his mom's place and "catching him" kissing another woman (throwing up and jumping back in my car to speed away- and I was nauseus while lying in my bed thinking about this)... Imagining going to my overdue gyn appt. and finding out he gave me a disease because he was sleeping around,.... imagining him down in New Orleans (after I escaped his drunken violence) in our hotel room, that I had booked, having sex with another woman/women...And that he's not even AT his mom's house whenever I call, but is not answering because he's on a date with another woman...
I have absolutely no empirical evidence that he is cheating on me. Last week he said that I was still his girlfriend; that he didn't want any other girlfriend. This week, I'm convinced he's lying. What the heck is wrong with me?!?
I don't want to be this paranoid person- please help...
I really want to work things out with him and I don't know why I'm feeling this way. I know I have a fear of abandonment; and I know it has shown its uglyhead just for the mere fact that we no longer live together, but where is all this "other women" crap coming from??? I want it to stop and I just can't get it out of my head...Does anyone have any advice at all????
Thanks,
sunny10
Posted by Susan47 on May 2, 2005, at 12:49:33
In reply to Please help- need advice, posted by sunny10 on May 2, 2005, at 12:37:12
Do you really want my advice, though? I'd rather give you my viewpoint. If that's okay.
Posted by sunny10 on May 2, 2005, at 13:27:00
In reply to Yes. » sunny10, posted by Susan47 on May 2, 2005, at 12:49:33
I have a feeling that your viewpoint is that I'm not crazy- that I'm paranoid because I know he's lied before...let me know if I'm offbase!
But the advice I need is how to learn to trust someone again...
The fact is that drug users lie and decive when they hide their use from their loved ones.But now that he's not using, I am still having a hard time trusting him...
How do I learn to trust someone again?
(This is a recurring theme for me; wanting to give a second chance, but having a hard time ALLOWING them to actually HAVE one- not just a current SO thing...)
???????????????
sunny10
Posted by AuntieMel on May 2, 2005, at 14:50:40
In reply to Re: Yes. » Susan47, posted by sunny10 on May 2, 2005, at 13:27:00
You have a hard time trusting him because he's given you no reason to trust him. Period.
It's become such a pattern between you that maybe once you'd convinced yourself that he isn't using that he *must* be lying about something else.
Sounds like self-defense to me.
Posted by sunny10 on May 2, 2005, at 14:59:00
In reply to Re: Yes. » sunny10, posted by AuntieMel on May 2, 2005, at 14:50:40
I know it's self-defense...
but it's making me offensive (even to myself) when there's only something going on "against me" in my head!!!How do you shake that????
Posted by broken on May 2, 2005, at 15:02:32
In reply to Please help- need advice, posted by sunny10 on May 2, 2005, at 12:37:12
Hmmm, somehow I have a problem with you saying you are paranoid. You are dealing with somone who you know has lied to you in the past. I dont think it's paranoia, I think it's smart. You're simply guarding against being hurt again. If this was someone completely new, that had never lied to you before, that would be paranoia in my opinion.
Because of previous experience, it's not out of the realm of possibillities that he is not telling the truth again. The circumstances of his not living with you nor answering phonecalls are suspicious, and you know this, and your emotions are telling you to be careful, you dont want to hurt again.Trust doesn't return overnight, I wish it did. I think if you are intent on continuing your relationship, it's just going to take time. I wish you didnt have to suffer through it, but unfortunately, I don't know of any other way myself.
Wishing you the best,
Chris
Posted by sunny10 on May 2, 2005, at 15:41:15
In reply to Re: Please help- need advice » sunny10, posted by broken on May 2, 2005, at 15:02:32
I guess...the phone thing, unfortunately is true- there IS no reception at his mom's!!!!!!!!!
I already know the WHY I'm paranoid/non-trusting... doesn't matter which wording we use, here...The point IS that he knows he has to gain back my trust, but HOW does he do it... HOW do I KNOW he's doing it, and if there is no HOW... what kind of calming exercises or SOMETHING can I do???? I am not accusing him of anything- because I know this is in my head- but for my own sanity, I gotta figure out how to GET IT OUT...
Just trying to get this crap out of my head... It can never help a situation, only sabatogue it!!
I am driving myself crazy and I hate it!!!!!!!
AAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH
Posted by Susan47 on May 2, 2005, at 15:54:17
In reply to Re: looking for calming exercises or something, posted by sunny10 on May 2, 2005, at 15:41:15
Quit sleeping with him, god damn it. What the hell do you think you're doing? He could be out there doing ANYTHING honey, he hasn't given anything but words to confirm otherwise. And he's all about lying, you already know that, that was confirmed too. You're giving him cheap, easy sex and you expect ANYTHING to change? Rant over, I apologize to you before you even post back, if you do. Because that was really really strongly worded. I know that. And I could've made it sound worse, but I didn't. Honey, men are all about sex much of the time. I think I might've finally learned that. Truly, with my head.
Posted by Damos on May 2, 2005, at 17:36:26
In reply to Please help- need advice, posted by sunny10 on May 2, 2005, at 12:37:12
Dear sweet Sunny,
I'm not in a place where I trust myself to say or be anything of any use to anyone, but please tell me this is not true - please. You deserve so much better than this. I am a man (genetically speaking) and have seen so many *men* pull this sh*t too often. Even the crap about not being up to talking about the two of you yet. I won't hurt you by telling you how often I have heard that used and why it's used. How dare he, how dare he, how dare he. I'm sorry I can't keep it together enough to make any sense, but I think you know what I'm thinking.
Love and hugs,
Damos
Posted by Tamar on May 2, 2005, at 17:45:17
In reply to Re: looking for calming exercises or something » sunny10, posted by Susan47 on May 2, 2005, at 15:54:17
> Quit sleeping with him, god damn it. What the hell do you think you're doing? He could be out there doing ANYTHING honey, he hasn't given anything but words to confirm otherwise. And he's all about lying, you already know that, that was confirmed too. You're giving him cheap, easy sex and you expect ANYTHING to change? Rant over, I apologize to you before you even post back, if you do. Because that was really really strongly worded. I know that. And I could've made it sound worse, but I didn't. Honey, men are all about sex much of the time. I think I might've finally learned that. Truly, with my head.
Women need sex too. And as well as giving him sex you're also getting sex.
But I do agree that it's awkward because you're in a somewhat anomalous situation. You've gone from a situation that has all the trappings of security (living together) to less security (dating). No wonder you don't feel secure about his sexual fidelity.
It sounds as if the situation is pushing all your buttons. It takes a long time to rebuild trust of any kind, so don't be too hard on yourself. If you need reassurance from him, can you ask for it? Repeatedly? Sometimes that's what it takes.
Tamar
Posted by sunny10 on May 2, 2005, at 23:05:42
In reply to On the other hand..., posted by Tamar on May 2, 2005, at 17:45:17
I did ask him about it. Just tonight. And what he said surprised me. He said that he had told me that he wasn't interested in having or getting any other girlfriend before. That I hadn't told him the same thing, and that he didn't know whether I was dating anyone else. And that he wasn't seeing anyone else and had no plans to, either. That he was at work, at his mom's, or at his friend's house playing the guitar.
I told him that when I said that I wanted to repair our relationship and make it even better thn it was before MEANT that I wasn't interested in dating anyone else. Did he think that I thought adding more players to the relationship would HELP?!? Of course not.
Basically, I told him that he was constantly confusing me by being warm and affectionate one time I saw him, and then acting cool and distant the next time, which is why I thought maybe he had changed his mind and was dating other people.
He just said that he was confused, too, by the change of our relationship status and didn't really know what to say or how to act. But that he hadn't changed his mind. He loves me.
He said that he needed to get back out of his mom's house and into an apartment because he just felt like a heel being 36 years old and "living at my mom's". That he had a lot of things on his mind surrounding that and that things would be better once he was no longer "in limbo", at least with his living situation.
His parents are divorced, and apparently when he called his dad to fill him in, his dad gave him a raft of sh*t about "not being a self-reliant man and running home to his momma"- that kind of stuff... Maybe not in those words, but that's how my SO feels that his dad thinks about him. And that makes him feel bad.
I DO have to remember that I AM in my apartment, and it's all set up and decorated... of course, I worked my job full time and moved at night and on weekends, but I'm done- he's not.
IS it too much for him to ask me to chill until he gets at least even with me in terms of settledness? Susan47 and Damos would both have me believe that I am being manipulated for sex. And I, too, have read studies about manipulative men- I'm just not altogether sure that this qualifies...
All of this sh*t has its basis in addiction. His violence; my distrust. Isn't it as likely that this is a relationship being fixed when an addict goes on the wagon as it being a case of a manipulator?
And therein lies the problem... am I in the difficult stage of post-addiction, or in a manipulative relationship?
And until the truth comes out, HOW DO I JUST STOP MY MIND? I have been saying the Serenity Prayer over and over, but cannot seem to still my on again, off again paranoid thoughts...
So who can help with that?????
Posted by Damos on May 3, 2005, at 0:31:01
In reply to Re: On the other hand..., posted by sunny10 on May 2, 2005, at 23:05:42
I shouldn't have posted in my current mindset and apologise for having made you feel like that. I'm really sorry.
You might want to have a look at
Because they have a lot of meditation stuff there or maybe try and find a tai chi class nearby or something as I found that really helped me.
Sorry Sunny I just really don't want to see you hurt again but that's no excuse for what I said.
Posted by gardenergirl on May 3, 2005, at 1:37:35
In reply to Re: Yes. » AuntieMel, posted by sunny10 on May 2, 2005, at 14:59:00
sunny,
Trust is not just a given, it has to be earned. And he has to work very hard to earn your trust, in my opinion.That involves being where he says he's going to be, letting you know what's going on in his life, etc. He needs to bend over backwards and overcompensate checking in and working to earn your trust again.
It's not you that is untrusting. Please don't beat yourself up about it. It's he who has not been trustworthy. It's all up to him, IMO.
gg
Posted by gardenergirl on May 3, 2005, at 1:44:07
In reply to Re: On the other hand..., posted by sunny10 on May 2, 2005, at 23:05:42
You can also try journalling or setting aside a designatd worry hour or so for when you are "scheduled" to think about it. Then when you find yourself thinking about, remind yourself that you will, when the time for it comes up.
Journalling can help to help you do sort of a "brain dump". Sometimes this helps.
Also, you could try prescribing the symptom. Tell yourself that you are prescribed to worry and think about it as much as you possibly can. At some point then, you will find you get tired of it, and it becomes less intense.
These are some ways to deal with stopping thoughts.
Meditation is good, too. Don't make you goal as trying to achieve thinking of nothing. Think of it as allowing thoughts to float by like clouds. You just notice them if they interrupt, and let them float by. And go right back to your mantra or other form of meditation.
Good luck sweetie. And have him start telling you where he's going to be and when, and phoning in to report. It's a bit like a grounded adolescent, but this is the way for him to earn your trust back...by demonstrating enough times when he IS doing what he tells you he's doing. At some point you won't need him to check in so much. But this is the way to actively earn trust back.
((((sunny))))
gg
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 3, 2005, at 7:40:05
In reply to Re: On the other hand..., posted by sunny10 on May 2, 2005, at 23:05:42
> And therein lies the problem... am I in the difficult stage of post-addiction, or in a manipulative relationship?
>
> And until the truth comes out, HOW DO I JUST STOP MY MIND? I have been saying the Serenity Prayer over and over, but cannot seem to still my on again, off again paranoid thoughts...
>
> So who can help with that?????Oh, dear...there's a whole lot going on right now, and I hope that there's something useful in what I say....
I think one of the simplest conclusions I reach by reading all you've said is that you don't trust him. I can understand why that complicates things, but I urge you to honour that feeling. One of my own personal rules of conduct/self-respect is, "My feelings are not subject to debate, by anyone....even me." I added the last bit to the more common aphorism, because I get nothing out of trying to rejig my own feelings to fit my expectations or my perceptions of my needs. I'm disrespecting myself, and not helping anything, anyway. My feelings just are.
That's where the serenity prayer comes in. Accept what you cannot change (your feelings), the courage to change the things you can (the lack of rules of conduct!).....
Surprised you, maybe? I don't hear that you guys set up any guidelines around mutually acceptable conduct, mutual required information sharing, etc. You're running on expectations, which can only lead to disappointments. "Expectations are pre-planned resentments", as they say. You can't work from assumptions about what somebody is going to do (or not do). Instead, you make a deal, you draw a line in the sand, and you observe.
Here's an example: You try to negotiate that until he obtains his own private accomodations, there will be no sleep-overs of any kind. Then it's not "your place or nowhere". You restore a normal dating-type balance. Or, you negotiate a "must-tell" agreement, so that each of you will tell the other of any straying outside the relationship. I'm not saying that will overcome dishonesty, but if you haven't got such an agreement already, it can promote this idea of faithfulness, which seems to be something you need while you're sorting out the details. At the same time, it makes the STD thing a reasonable limit on the behaviour (quite apart from the relationship issues).
I've just been speculating about what sorts of guidelines you might want to work towards. Making them overt is a good thing. In setting them up, you pretty much have to reveal why you prefer it that way. "I don't want to find out that I got sick from you sleeping with another woman. I want your promise you'll tell me." That's sounds reasonable to me. "I feel pressured to let you come over to my house all the time, because you don't have a place. I'm uncomfortable with that pressure, so I'm asking you to move ahead with your plans for independence." You can plan your comments ahead of time, right? Don't go into negotiations without having thought about it a bit. I talk out loud when I practise something I really want to get right.
I can think of rules you might want to discuss around his use of alcohol. "One drop on your breath, I'm gone...." Or money: "My money is my money." I'm not trying to tell you what to do, but what you might do.
I dunno what stuff is really on your plate. But I think what you're trying to do right now is to make your feelings go away. What your feelings want you to do is to pay attention, and to sort out why you're having them. I think those difficult feelings would be more than happy to go away, if you took steps to comfort them. It's not about his obeying the agreements, it's about your seeking them.
If an overt boundary *is* crossed, your anger has an obvious immediate trigger, and it might be easier for you to express, instead of implode. Right? Timely, measured anger?
Just some thoughts, eh?
Regards,
Lar
Posted by AdaGrace on May 3, 2005, at 9:02:10
In reply to Please help- need advice, posted by sunny10 on May 2, 2005, at 12:37:12
Sunny,
I feel that you are really having trouble letting go. If he has been forgiven for his wrongs, then he's forgiven. You are a much more forgiving person than most.
However, I am no one to talk. I get poo'ed on time and time again and I forgive, only for it to happen again. One thing I have learned over the past few years of my excapades is that "most" of the time (and I say "most" because this was my experience)people - men and women - rarely change life learned behavior. It's not a scourge upon us, it's just that they are who they are, and we are who we are. Unless chemicals are affecting behavior, and intervention enters into the picture, that behavior tends to re-surface time and time again.
Take me for example. I met someone who has a volitile temper. He gets verbally abusive and demeaning when things don't go his way. I inform him of how much he is hurting me, and he tells me I deserve it. Eventually I give in, and usually he becomes sweet again. However, I know it will happen again. This is a character trait that cannot be changed.
Now for you.......I feel that even though chemicals have been guiding his behavior, there are also underlying issues that aside from the chemicals were probably there before the chemicals became the issue. Am I making sense?What I am trying to say is........a leopard rarely chages his spots, and you cannot change them for him. Do not give in because you love him and he loves you. Make him prove to you that he can be a better person to you before you turn down the sheets.
I hope this doesn't sound like the pot calling the kettle black. I know I am no one to talk. I can't even get rid of this man who does this to me because I am such a sucker for great sex. Even though I am hurting those around me by my promiscuity. Even though I am damaging my own self asteem further. Even though I know what I am doing is morally wrong. Even though I know that I will suffer the consequence eventually. I cannot stop. It is a horrible way of healing a broken heart perpetrated by another illicit affair that ended recently.
What I know, what I really know is that it is very hard to say no to the persuasions of the flesh, the purr of a man's poetic tongue.... even if it is hurting everyone around you including yourself.
But........that's me. Not you. All I can say to end this tirade of mine is that I am thinking of you, and I understand. I really do.
Posted by Susan47 on May 3, 2005, at 9:55:15
In reply to Re: Please help- need advice, posted by AdaGrace on May 3, 2005, at 9:02:10
I apologize to you if I've made you think I'm trying to have you believe something that isn't true.
I've been where you are. Not exactly, but close enough. Okay here's something to think about. Human beings are creatures of habit, aren't they? So just in that, you've set up an expectation and correct me if I'm wrong, that he'll have sex because you love him, you'll help him out financially and physically because you love him, you'll learn to trust him whether he lies or not because you love him, and he can have you there when he needs you because you love him. I'm wondering what you're getting from him because he loves you. Besides lip service. My only question, okay?
Posted by Susan47 on May 3, 2005, at 10:14:52
In reply to Sunny, posted by Susan47 on May 3, 2005, at 9:55:15
I'm remembering things I don't want to remember and feeling like all these triggers are making me too aggressive with you. So I'm backing off, because I can see I'll start to dominate this thread and I won't do that. Only one last thing I want to say,
Just please don't think you can understand him into being the person you really want. You're not equipped to be his therapist.
Posted by sunny10 on May 3, 2005, at 11:25:39
In reply to Re: On the other hand... » sunny10, posted by Larry Hoover on May 3, 2005, at 7:40:05
I'm a little confused by your post, I must admit.
We DID actaully have the conversation about seeing other people last night. It is agreed that we will not see other people. It is agreed that if the notion ever crosses our minds, that we are honor bound to tell the other before acting upon it- of course, we also understand that this would well and truly mean the end of our relationship.But the trust issue itself did not come from me- and it did not come from my fear of other women. IT STARTED because he lie to and deceived me so easily when he was using the drugs behind my back six months ago. It started because of his addictive behavior. First I became paranoid that everytime he was "having time to himself" in his den or working out, or working on his motorcycle, in the basement, that he was doing the drugs again. After all, said my logical, paranoid brain- that's where he's done it before- the den and the basement- and he hid behind my back and deceived me about it until I found physical evidence- what's to stop him from continuing that behavior? So I was a wreck anytime he wanted to be in either of those rooms (of course I was starting to drive the man batty- but he earned my distrust!). It drives me crazy that he says things are so tough now while trying to save the relationship "because you never trusted me and that's a problem". I did trust him before he gave me a reason not to...
Now he's in an entirely different house. And I know his mom refuses to get involved in any conversations with him about how he shouldn't drink hard liquor or do drugs- how it affects his health and his relationships with other people. Besides being his MOTHER, for goodness sake, she SHOULD care, especially since he is living in her house. She is apparently more afraid of confronting him with this stuff than of being strangled herself if he goes back to the hard liquor and they get in a argument! Which means he could go right back to using there; she won't say anything or try to stop him.... And knowing that she will no longer even discuss these things with ME, the other woman thing started out of sheer paranoia- she wouldn't tell me if he was going out with a different woman every night of the week! She has "taken herself out of this; I can't be in the middle because I love both of you". But he is her son- I am not her daughter...
Yes, I feel that I am the only one interested in helping him. I don't get it. Everyone agrees that he was completely wrong to lose control and resort of violence against a woman, but no one is helping him see that it is his primary job to start setting boundaries for himself that are socially acceptable. Finding an apartment shouldn't be his first priority- learning how to be accountable for his actions is.
Going to therapy- going to anger management classes- making amends to the ones he has hurt by his chemical abuses(me- and his mom by involving her in this)- being accountable in order to regain the trust of his loved ones. Those should be his first priorities.
He is hiding behind the "stress" of finding an apartment to avoid returning phone calls to friends in Colorado who have heard part of the story from the friend that met up with us in New Orleans. They care about him and want to understand what happened (he is "sick of telling the story" says he). And to avoid the fact that none of "the story" would have happened if he was in control of himself. I know that it is classic denial.
But should I believe that he wants to deny himself right out of my life when he tells me that "right now" he needs to think of his own needs before mine? He does need to learn a whole new way of living. It must be difficult.
What I need, though, is the type of boundary setting that you spoke of, but in terms of letting me know what he is doing, letting me know when he will call me (or when he'll be available to actually pick up that darn cell phone- even if he sets up a time to be outside of his mother's house to actually receive a cell signal to be able to answer his phone when I call), letting me "in", in other words. He wants to "handle things by himself", privately. HE thinks it proves something to himself- that he is capable of doing it by and for himself. I NEED him to understand that being part of a couple means open communication- not "one man as an island" mentality.
I think I need to write him a letter. It may take a few days to actually word it correctly, but I think I need to let him truly understand what Susan47, gg, and you have said about his behavior and how it affects me. And that the distrust that I have was the direct outcome of his earlier behaviors- not because I "can't trust anyone"- he cannot turn the situation around to make me feel like the bad guy. If he really wants to make something of "us", then he needs to understand that my needs are just as important as his. That he can't just figuratively set me on a shelf "while he handles his stuff" and expect for "us" to work. I'm not an inanimate, unthinking, unfeeling thing. I am not a plate. I have needs, too.
But, in the meantime, I am not sleeping very well. I have been late to work twice in the past two weeks because I have resorted to sleeping pills just to shut off my mind and go to sleep. My boss knows SOME of what has been going on and has been pretty understanding, but it makes me feel bad about myself to not be acting accountable to the hours of my job! This has to stop somehow. These swirling thoughts in my head.
I have tried meditation in the past, but can never get past the swirling thoughts.
Maybe I'll feel better after I write the letter and receive (or not) some kind of response....
What do you think about this type of "coping mechanism"? Letter writing, I mean? Do you think it will help get the thoughts out of my head if I put them on paper and mail thenm away?
I was even thinking about including copies of Susan47, and gg's posts... your own last post had too much to do with the other woman thing and we already discussed that, so it'd be a little like beating a dead horse if I included that one...
Any thoughts? Suggestions?
Posted by sunny10 on May 3, 2005, at 11:41:00
In reply to Staying Away, Okay? Sunny, posted by Susan47 on May 3, 2005, at 10:14:52
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 3, 2005, at 12:52:43
In reply to Re: On the other hand... » Larry Hoover, posted by sunny10 on May 3, 2005, at 11:25:39
Maybe it's better to just jump in on a new page.
My post was about trying to make it work, *with him*. What I just read is how you can't trust him to do what you need him to do to make it work. And that you may need to let him go?
That's what I'm hearing you say, as a theme.
Is that a fair summation?
What you're asking of him is a tall order. The implications are that he won't meet those expectations, right?
With his mother as an enabler, and his current behaviour not much different than before, what can you reasonably expect from him?
I'm sorry if you thought I was trying to set your priorities. Far from it. I was just trying to give examples.
Boundaries work both ways. They limit you, too. They help in future decision making. They clarify just when enough is enough.
What in this mess is your sh*t? And what is his sh*t? Which of those do you have the ability to change?
You've given him lots of second chances. What has he given you, in return?
Sure, write a letter. Excellent idea. It clarifies what you are thinking. It links thoughts to emotions.
When you think you have your letter ready, print it off and read it out loud. Read it like you were in drama class, and you're bringing the words alive. Like he could actually hear you saying those things.
Saying things aloud is more potent than typing them. Trust me on that.
And see if you haven't purged some of this mental churning, by doing that. By writing it all out, and reading it aloud.
It's going to be all right, in the end. And, if it's not all right, it's not the end.
It's going to be okay, sunny. Probably not today, but soon. It's going to be OK.
Best,
Lar
Posted by sunny10 on May 3, 2005, at 14:19:07
In reply to Re: On the other hand... » sunny10, posted by Larry Hoover on May 3, 2005, at 12:52:43
again, I think I am just not making sense!
I DON'T want to think about this as "being the end". And I DON'T know WHAT he is or isn't doing at his mom's- and THAT'S my problem. My problem is that if he doesn't COMMUNICATE with me, how will I know WHAT he is doing?!?!?
MY issue is that I can't trust someone who is not communicating with me. HIS issue is that his communication skills STINK! He is perfectly capable of having a logocal, bussinesslike conversation, but when it comes to sharing feelings, asking for help, et cetera, it is almost non-existent. If you recall, I wrote something about this to you about the men raised here in my part of the country. And HE KNOWS that in order for a relationship to be equal and healthy in 2005, he needs to learn how to open up.
But as we all know, "knowing it vs doing it" are two different things. I want him to understand that if he's open with me, I CAN learn to trust him again. But it's hard to trust a brick wall, you know?!?
And yes, what I am asking is a tall order. But he is the one who wants to "live without chemicals" without the benefit of NA. Doesn't NA say that amends must be made, answering the call to accountability must be done, and the rest of what I've outlined in order for a person to truly understand what their addiction did to their lives and just how bad that life actually was- that it really didn't make them as happy as the drug let them THINK they were? Isn't that how you learn to embrace a life without drugs? I think he's perfectly capable of meeting those expectations- I'm just not sure how one gets past the denial stage and begins to take these steps...
I don't know that his mom IS an enabler...I don't know that he IS doing anything wrong at all besides not being open with me. I know that he is ashamed that this has happened and that talking about it and taking responsibility for it is difficult, but I don't want him to push it under the rug and pretend it never happened!
I perfectly understand that boundaries limit me, too. But if there were some in place, as least I would know what he needs and expects from me as well as what I expect from him! It is the not knowing that is driving me crazy!
I've mentioned above which is my sh*t and which is his... I can only change mine. And the letter that I am thinking of writing is the only way for me to "change" the situation for me. I need answers to these boundary questions. I'm not trying to change him anymore than he would be "changed" by learning to live clean of drugs; which is what he says he wants. And I know that only he can decide if he really wants a life without drugs and is willing to make the changes he needs to make to accomplish that. But he needs to communicate that decision to me with ACTIONS AND words.
If he's not interested in working out his issues, then you're right, there can be no "us". But he says that he is- he just needs more time... I need him to let me know what kind of TIME he is talking about.
Didn't you say that you had had substance issues in the past? Did everyone just give up loving you and walk away? If I'm mistaken, I'm sorry...even though I'd still like to know what you WOULD want if you were the one recovering...
I'll try writing the letter tonight...
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 3, 2005, at 15:35:59
In reply to Re: On the other hand..., posted by sunny10 on May 3, 2005, at 14:19:07
I'm sorry, sunny. Obviously, I'm not understanding things very well. I'll not comment any further.
Yes, I have had a lot of interaction with 12-steps, AA, NA, ACOA. I also use many of those principles in day to day life. I'm grateful for the insight I've obtained from working the steps.
Geez, I hope I'm not out of line to suggest you live it one day at a time, as best you can. Deal with each issue when it comes up, rather than all at once.
You want him to do these things. He may or may not do them. He may or may not be able to do them. In time, you'll know.
Lar
Posted by Tamar on May 3, 2005, at 16:21:04
In reply to Re: On the other hand..., posted by sunny10 on May 3, 2005, at 14:19:07
Hi Sunny,
I'm just wondering if I understood you correctly. Did you say your SO has refused to go to NA because he thinks he can sort it out himself?
If so, are you prepared to accept that? Do you think he can do it?
Sorry for all the questions - I might have missed something. Just looking for clarification.
T
Posted by gardenergirl on May 3, 2005, at 16:27:39
In reply to Re: On the other hand... » sunny10, posted by Larry Hoover on May 3, 2005, at 7:40:05
Wonderful thoughts and advice.
You are one heck of a guy.
gg
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